Disk Brakes vs. V Brakes??

Hi,

I tried a bike with hydraulic disk brakes (Hayes Sole V6) yesterday
for the first time, and would appreciate your input on my impressions:

- On the first bike I tried, it was not possible to block the wheel
with the disk brake. I checked and found that the disk was oily. On
another bike (same brake) I was able to get the wheel to block, but
with application of extreme force to the brake handle, MUCH more than
required by any V brake I ever tried.

Question: Are Hydraulic Brakes really weaker than V brakes, or was this
bike just assembled by monkeys?

- I noticed that the hydraulic disc brakes have a much 'spongier' feel
than the cable actuated V brakes. This I guess was related to the
hydraulic hose / brake line expanding under pressure, because it was ok
on the front brake (1/2 of the brake lever way until full braking), and
not acceptable no the rear brake (had to pull the brake lever almost up
to the handle bar to get full breaking power)

Question: Is this again a problem of monkey assembly (not enough
fluid?, air in the lines?, what else? ...), or cheap brake lines, or
both? And are there better brake lines that expand less than the stock
ones?
Or ARE hydraulic disc brakes just spongier? If yes, that much
spongier??

- After playing with the brakes for a few minutes, I noticed that the
discs get noticeably warm, around 170F. Are there ever heating issues
with disc brakes on longer downhill segments? Seems a stupid question,
but they did get quite warm just by playing around on level ground for
about ten minutes.

Thanks a lot!

PS: All the monkey references are founded on an employee there telling
me that 'there are no electrical brakes' when I asked for differences
between hydraulic and cable actuated. When I asked her that about the
front fork maxing out, i.e. hitting the limit of it's travel hard, she
replied with 'many people like their forks soft'. (I found out how they
can be adjusted later.) When I showed her that the (later found to be
well oiled) disk didn't stop the bike, she said 'Oh. Eh? Uh?'
So monkeys or Neanderthals are definitely a possibility in that store.
But the bike is on sale, so I might still buy there. Uh. Uh. Uh. I

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Any input from anyone else on the actual questions?
Thanks!

Chris

Ride-A-Lot said:

Buy from a reputable dealer that can adequately support the bike they
sell iof you do not have the skills to maintain it yourself.

Hydros = Better *especially in wet/muddy conditions

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I tried a bike with hydraulic disk brakes (Hayes Sole V6) yesterday
for the first time, and would appreciate your input on my impressions:

- On the first bike I tried, it was not possible to block the wheel
with the disk brake. I checked and found that the disk was oily. On
another bike (same brake) I was able to get the wheel to block, but
with application of extreme force to the brake handle, MUCH more than
required by any V brake I ever tried.

Question: Are Hydraulic Brakes really weaker than V brakes, or was this
bike just assembled by monkeys?

- I noticed that the hydraulic disc brakes have a much 'spongier' feel
than the cable actuated V brakes. This I guess was related to the
hydraulic hose / brake line expanding under pressure, because it was ok
on the front brake (1/2 of the brake lever way until full braking), and
not acceptable no the rear brake (had to pull the brake lever almost up
to the handle bar to get full breaking power)

Question: Is this again a problem of monkey assembly (not enough
fluid?, air in the lines?, what else? ...), or cheap brake lines, or
both? And are there better brake lines that expand less than the stock
ones?
Or ARE hydraulic disc brakes just spongier? If yes, that much
spongier??

- After playing with the brakes for a few minutes, I noticed that the
discs get noticeably warm, around 170F. Are there ever heating issues
with disc brakes on longer downhill segments? Seems a stupid question,
but they did get quite warm just by playing around on level ground for
about ten minutes.

Thanks a lot!

PS: All the monkey references are founded on an employee there telling
me that 'there are no electrical brakes' when I asked for differences
between hydraulic and cable actuated. When I asked her that about the
front fork maxing out, i.e. hitting the limit of it's travel hard, she
replied with 'many people like their forks soft'. (I found out how they
can be adjusted later.) When I showed her that the (later found to be
well oiled) disk didn't stop the bike, she said 'Oh. Eh? Uh?'
So monkeys or Neanderthals are definitely a possibility in that store.
But the bike is on sale, so I might still buy there. Uh. Uh. Uh. I

--

I haven't worked on any hydraulic bicycle disc brakes, but have
worked on many motorcycle ones and that sure sounds like there is some
air in the lines that needs to be bled out.

Smokey

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I tried a bike with hydraulic disk brakes (Hayes Sole V6) yesterday
for the first time, and would appreciate your input on my impressions:

- On the first bike I tried, it was not possible to block the wheel
with the disk brake. I checked and found that the disk was oily. On
another bike (same brake) I was able to get the wheel to block, but
with application of extreme force to the brake handle, MUCH more than
required by any V brake I ever tried.

Question: Are Hydraulic Brakes really weaker than V brakes, or was this
bike just assembled by monkeys?

Number 2..rotors and pads must be free of any contamination.

Quoted message said:

- I noticed that the hydraulic disc brakes have a much 'spongier' feel
than the cable actuated V brakes. This I guess was related to the
hydraulic hose / brake line expanding under pressure, because it was ok
on the front brake (1/2 of the brake lever way until full braking), and
not acceptable no the rear brake (had to pull the brake lever almost up
to the handle bar to get full breaking power)

Question: Is this again a problem of monkey assembly (not enough
fluid?, air in the lines?, what else? ...), or cheap brake lines, or
both? And are there better brake lines that expand less than the stock
ones?
Or ARE hydraulic disc brakes just spongier? If yes, that much
spongier??

Brakes need to be bled. Lines don't flex or expand, poor setup.

Quoted message said:

- After playing with the brakes for a few minutes, I noticed that the
discs get noticeably warm, around 170F. Are there ever heating issues
with disc brakes on longer downhill segments? Seems a stupid question,
but they did get quite warm just by playing around on level ground for
about ten minutes.

Temp no big deal.>

Quoted message said:

Thanks a lot!

PS: All the monkey references are founded on an employee there telling
me that 'there are no electrical brakes' when I asked for differences
between hydraulic and cable actuated. When I asked her that about the
front fork maxing out, i.e. hitting the limit of it's travel hard, she
replied with 'many people like their forks soft'. (I found out how they
can be adjusted later.) When I showed her that the (later found to be
well oiled) disk didn't stop the bike, she said 'Oh. Eh? Uh?'
So monkeys or Neanderthals are definitely a possibility in that store.
But the bike is on sale, so I might still buy there. Uh. Uh. Uh. I

Typical of bike shop, USA..peopled by the untrained. Think that if they
ride a bike, they know something about them(no electric brakes, that is
amazing that she would say such a thing. I guess she has not heard of
'mechanical' disc brakes)

Quoted message said:

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I tried a bike with hydraulic disk brakes (Hayes Sole V6) yesterday
for the first time, and would appreciate your input on my impressions:

- On the first bike I tried, it was not possible to block the wheel
with the disk brake. I checked and found that the disk was oily. On
another bike (same brake) I was able to get the wheel to block, but
with application of extreme force to the brake handle, MUCH more than
required by any V brake I ever tried.

Question: Are Hydraulic Brakes really weaker than V brakes, or was this
bike just assembled by monkeys?

no, just assembled badly. hydraulic brakes are highly effective, more
so than rim brakes in off-road conditions.

Quoted message said:

- I noticed that the hydraulic disc brakes have a much 'spongier' feel
than the cable actuated V brakes. This I guess was related to the
hydraulic hose / brake line expanding under pressure, because it was ok
on the front brake (1/2 of the brake lever way until full braking), and
not acceptable no the rear brake (had to pull the brake lever almost up
to the handle bar to get full breaking power)

Question: Is this again a problem of monkey assembly (not enough
fluid?, air in the lines?, what else? ...), or cheap brake lines, or
both? And are there better brake lines that expand less than the stock
ones?
Or ARE hydraulic disc brakes just spongier? If yes, that much
spongier??

no, they're firm. sponginess means air in the line.

Quoted message said:

- After playing with the brakes for a few minutes, I noticed that the
discs get noticeably warm, around 170F. Are there ever heating issues
with disc brakes on longer downhill segments? Seems a stupid question,
but they did get quite warm just by playing around on level ground for
about ten minutes.

they get warm because of the friction - that's what all brakes do.
you'll have no problem with heating issues on a disk braked bike - once
set up correctly, use with complete confidence.

Quoted message said:

Thanks a lot!

PS: All the monkey references are founded on an employee there telling
me that 'there are no electrical brakes' when I asked for differences
between hydraulic and cable actuated. When I asked her that about the
front fork maxing out, i.e. hitting the limit of it's travel hard, she
replied with 'many people like their forks soft'. (I found out how they
can be adjusted later.) When I showed her that the (later found to be
well oiled) disk didn't stop the bike, she said 'Oh. Eh? Uh?'
So monkeys or Neanderthals are definitely a possibility in that store.
But the bike is on sale, so I might still buy there. Uh. Uh. Uh. I

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

Hi,

- After playing with the brakes for a few minutes, I noticed that the
discs get noticeably warm, around 170F. Are there ever heating issues
with disc brakes on longer downhill segments? Seems a stupid question,
but they did get quite warm just by playing around on level ground for
about ten minutes.

they get warm because of the friction - that's what all brakes do.
you'll have no problem with heating issues on a disk braked bike - once
set up correctly, use with complete confidence.

Regarding the heating issue, I came across a couple on a tandem who had
a hydraulic disk brake in back, instead of a drag brake. They said
that on long downhills the brake heating transfers heat to the fluid,
the fluid expands and they end up with the brake applied without any
lever action. They have to stop and let the fluid cool.

A tandem drag brake and a downhill ATB are not the exact same situation
but both can expect to sometimes apply the brake for 20-30 minutes on a
very long downhill. Does this ever occur on an ATB?

Tom

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any input from anyone else on the actual questions?
Thanks!

Chris

I have Hayes hydraulics on my bike.
I have never had a problem locking up the wheel on any surface.
They stop easily and predictably.
No sponginess in the feel.
Much more powerful than the sidepulls on my roadbike.
I would find a different bike and reassess.
JP

Quoted message said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

Buy from a reputable dealer that can adequately support the bike they
sell iof you do not have the skills to maintain it yourself.

Hydros = Better *especially in wet/muddy conditions

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:04:56 -0600, Chris_MdR wrote:

If they're working properly, either brake should be able to lock the rear
wheel or send you over the handlebars. Disk brakes offer more precise
modulation and better performance in wet conditions, but their extra power
is really unnecessary because other kinds of brakes are more than powerful
enough. Most mountain bikes with decent forks and other equipment come
with disk brakes anyway, so that's what you'll get. Just make sure the
disks are clean and nothing is leaking, and you'll be fine. The same
applies to rim brakes, whether V-brakes, traditional cantilever, or caliper.

Matt O.

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I tried a bike with hydraulic disk brakes (Hayes Sole V6) yesterday
for the first time, and would appreciate your input on my impressions:

- On the first bike I tried, it was not possible to block the wheel
with the disk brake. I checked and found that the disk was oily. On
another bike (same brake) I was able to get the wheel to block, but
with application of extreme force to the brake handle, MUCH more than
required by any V brake I ever tried.

Question: Are Hydraulic Brakes really weaker than V brakes, or was this
bike just assembled by monkeys?

- I noticed that the hydraulic disc brakes have a much 'spongier' feel
than the cable actuated V brakes. This I guess was related to the
hydraulic hose / brake line expanding under pressure, because it was ok
on the front brake (1/2 of the brake lever way until full braking), and
not acceptable no the rear brake (had to pull the brake lever almost up
to the handle bar to get full breaking power)

Question: Is this again a problem of monkey assembly (not enough
fluid?, air in the lines?, what else? ...), or cheap brake lines, or
both? And are there better brake lines that expand less than the stock
ones?
Or ARE hydraulic disc brakes just spongier? If yes, that much
spongier??

- After playing with the brakes for a few minutes, I noticed that the
discs get noticeably warm, around 170F. Are there ever heating issues
with disc brakes on longer downhill segments? Seems a stupid question,
but they did get quite warm just by playing around on level ground for
about ten minutes.

Thanks a lot!

PS: All the monkey references are founded on an employee there telling
me that 'there are no electrical brakes' when I asked for differences
between hydraulic and cable actuated. When I asked her that about the
front fork maxing out, i.e. hitting the limit of it's travel hard, she
replied with 'many people like their forks soft'. (I found out how they
can be adjusted later.) When I showed her that the (later found to be
well oiled) disk didn't stop the bike, she said 'Oh. Eh? Uh?'
So monkeys or Neanderthals are definitely a possibility in that store.
But the bike is on sale, so I might still buy there. Uh. Uh. Uh. I

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Quoted message said:

jim beam wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- After playing with the brakes for a few minutes, I noticed that
the
discs get noticeably warm, around 170F. Are there ever heating issues
with disc brakes on longer downhill segments? Seems a stupid
question, but they did get quite warm just by playing around on level
ground for about ten minutes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they get warm because of the friction - that's what all brakes do.
you'll have no problem with heating issues on a disk braked bike - once
set up correctly, use with complete confidence.

Quoted message said:

Regarding the heating issue, I came across a couple on a tandem who had
a hydraulic disk brake in back, instead of a drag brake. They said that
on long downhills the brake heating transfers heat to the fluid, the
fluid expands and they end up with the brake applied without any lever
action. They have to stop and let the fluid cool.

I'm not surprised. Tandems have double the weight and therefore double
the energy to be dissipated while braking. If the brake components are
not upgraded to compensate it's likely they'll overheat. There are
tandem-specific disks for this reason. But because it's a smaller
market they may not be as well-developed as single MTB brakes -- which
also had overheating problems in their early days.

Quoted message said:

A tandem drag brake and a downhill ATB are not the exact same situation
but both can expect to sometimes apply the brake for 20-30 minutes on a
very long downhill. Does this ever occur on an ATB?

Yes. As I said, overheating was common with the first generation of
MTB disks.

The best "disk" is your rim, but overheating it can cause tires to blow
off, which is the reason for drag brakes at the hub on tandems.

Matt O.

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

Hi,

- After playing with the brakes for a few minutes, I noticed that the
discs get noticeably warm, around 170F. Are there ever heating issues
with disc brakes on longer downhill segments? Seems a stupid question,
but they did get quite warm just by playing around on level ground for
about ten minutes.

they get warm because of the friction - that's what all brakes do.
you'll have no problem with heating issues on a disk braked bike - once
set up correctly, use with complete confidence.

Regarding the heating issue, I came across a couple on a tandem who had
a hydraulic disk brake in back, instead of a drag brake. They said
that on long downhills the brake heating transfers heat to the fluid,
the fluid expands and they end up with the brake applied without any
lever action. They have to stop and let the fluid cool.

A tandem drag brake and a downhill ATB are not the exact same situation
but both can expect to sometimes apply the brake for 20-30 minutes on a
very long downhill. Does this ever occur on an ATB?

I've never had heat cause the brakes to apply through heat expansion.
What I do experience is dot4 brake fluid boiling (or the water in the
fluid boiling) and I loose all braking power. And I have to wait until
it cools before continuing down hill. On the same hill with v-brakes I
had a front tire blow because the rim got too hot.

My make of disk brake is not compatible with dot5 fluid, which if I
could use it, would help.

Here's a question, which action produces the most heat, keeping the
brakes on to control speed on a steep hill or letting the bike go and
then jamming on the brakes at the last second to kill the speed?
Laters,

Marz

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Marz said:

Here's a question, which action produces the most heat, keeping the
brakes on to control speed on a steep hill or letting the bike go and
then jamming on the brakes at the last second to kill the speed?

Believe it or not it's the latter. The amount of energy to be dissipated
is a product of the mass of bike and rider and the height of the hill,
which remains the same whether you go fast or slow. But at higher speeds
there's more airflow over the rims or brake disks, so more heat is
transferred to the air.

Matt O.

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Matt The Toole wrote:
<snip rbor papmeister grabage>

What a cross-posted POS this thread was.

JD

Per [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

A tandem drag brake and a downhill ATB are not the exact same situation
but both can expect to sometimes apply the brake for 20-30 minutes on a
very long downhill. Does this ever occur on an ATB?

I've had my front brake (Hope C2) lock up in that manner when descending a very
steep hill.

Somebody who knows can chime in, but my suspicion is that phenom is limited to
closed-system hydraulic brakes.

I also think it's aggravated by having fluid that needs changing bc after I bled
the brake, it stopped happening.
--
PeteCresswell

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Marz said:

Here's a question, which action produces the most heat, keeping the
brakes on to control speed on a steep hill or letting the bike go and
then jamming on the brakes at the last second to kill the speed?
Laters,

Depends. If it is a fast road descent, you brake very
hard for a short time, then run up to speed again
whereupon the air flow cools the rim before much heat
gets to the tire. On a long slow descent, road or
trail, nothing works. You need to stop and let the
system cool.

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

In Message-ID:<[email hidden]> posted on
Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:45:44 CST, (PeteCresswell) wrote: Begin

Quoted message said:

Per [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

A tandem drag brake and a downhill ATB are not the exact same situation
but both can expect to sometimes apply the brake for 20-30 minutes on a
very long downhill. Does this ever occur on an ATB?

I've had my front brake (Hope C2) lock up in that manner when descending a very
steep hill.

Somebody who knows can chime in, but my suspicion is that phenom is limited to
closed-system hydraulic brakes.

I also think it's aggravated by having fluid that needs changing bc after I bled
the brake, it stopped happening.

That might suggest bubbles
that expanded with prolonged application heating
causing the lockup
and would no longer be an issue after bleeding them out

You might think that those bubbles would tent to migrate upward toward
the hand lever and away from the source of heat however, unless there's
a slight leak at the connection to the hydraulic applicator and the
bubbles were forming there as you rode then subsequently heating before
their chance to float away.

--

Bart

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Marz said:

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Hi,
>
> - After playing with the brakes for a few minutes, I noticed that the
> discs get noticeably warm, around 170F. Are there ever heating issues
> with disc brakes on longer downhill segments? Seems a stupid question,
> but they did get quite warm just by playing around on level ground for
> about ten minutes.

they get warm because of the friction - that's what all brakes do.
you'll have no problem with heating issues on a disk braked bike - once
set up correctly, use with complete confidence.

Regarding the heating issue, I came across a couple on a tandem who had
a hydraulic disk brake in back, instead of a drag brake. They said
that on long downhills the brake heating transfers heat to the fluid,
the fluid expands and they end up with the brake applied without any
lever action. They have to stop and let the fluid cool.

A tandem drag brake and a downhill ATB are not the exact same situation
but both can expect to sometimes apply the brake for 20-30 minutes on a
very long downhill. Does this ever occur on an ATB?

I've never had heat cause the brakes to apply through heat expansion.
What I do experience is dot4 brake fluid boiling (or the water in the
fluid boiling) and I loose all braking power. And I have to wait until
it cools before continuing down hill. On the same hill with v-brakes I
had a front tire blow because the rim got too hot.

My make of disk brake is not compatible with dot5 fluid, which if I
could use it, would help.

Here's a question, which action produces the most heat, keeping the
brakes on to control speed on a steep hill or letting the bike go and
then jamming on the brakes at the last second to kill the speed?
Laters,

Marz

--
There is a higher temp grade of DOT fluid called DOT 5.1. Despite it's numerical designation, it IS NOT the same as DOT 5 fluid, it's a grade of DOT 4 developed specifically for high temp braking (wonder why they didn't call it 4.1?). Some of the motorcycle road racing teams are using it. Speaking of brake fluid, when I worked in a motorcycle shop, this was the second most neglected item of maintenance (changing the fluid). The most neglected was checking tire pressure.

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Quoted message said:

I'm not surprised. Tandems have double the weight and therefore double
the energy to be dissipated while braking.

It will be more than double - significantly more as the double weight
going downhill only experiences the air resistance of a single rider.
As any rider knows from experience, the heavier rider will descent
faster (handling aside) than a lighter rider.

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

jlee said:

Quoted message said:

I'm not surprised. Tandems have double the weight and therefore double
the energy to be dissipated while braking.

Quoted message said:

It will be more than double - significantly more as the double weight
going downhill only experiences the air resistance of a single rider.

This is true.

Matt O.

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

[email hidden] a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I tried a bike with hydraulic disk brakes (Hayes Sole V6) yesterday
for the first time, and would appreciate your input on my impressions:

- On the first bike I tried, it was not possible to block the wheel
with the disk brake. I checked and found that the disk was oily. On
another bike (same brake) I was able to get the wheel to block, but
with application of extreme force to the brake handle, MUCH more than
required by any V brake I ever tried.

Question: Are Hydraulic Brakes really weaker than V brakes, or was this
bike just assembled by monkeys?

- I noticed that the hydraulic disc brakes have a much 'spongier' feel
than the cable actuated V brakes. This I guess was related to the
hydraulic hose / brake line expanding under pressure, because it was ok
on the front brake (1/2 of the brake lever way until full braking), and
not acceptable no the rear brake (had to pull the brake lever almost up
to the handle bar to get full breaking power)

Question: Is this again a problem of monkey assembly (not enough
fluid?, air in the lines?, what else? ...), or cheap brake lines, or
both? And are there better brake lines that expand less than the stock
ones?
Or ARE hydraulic disc brakes just spongier? If yes, that much
spongier??

- After playing with the brakes for a few minutes, I noticed that the
discs get noticeably warm, around 170F. Are there ever heating issues
with disc brakes on longer downhill segments? Seems a stupid question,
but they did get quite warm just by playing around on level ground for
about ten minutes.

Thanks a lot!

PS: All the monkey references are founded on an employee there telling
me that 'there are no electrical brakes' when I asked for differences
between hydraulic and cable actuated. When I asked her that about the
front fork maxing out, i.e. hitting the limit of it's travel hard, she
replied with 'many people like their forks soft'. (I found out how they
can be adjusted later.) When I showed her that the (later found to be
well oiled) disk didn't stop the bike, she said 'Oh. Eh? Uh?'
So monkeys or Neanderthals are definitely a possibility in that store.
But the bike is on sale, so I might still buy there. Uh. Uh. Uh. I

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

the model that you use?

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt