Discovery in disarray ’07 style ?

azdroptop said:

Sounds about right. They are in need after this year right?

As far as I recall.

Don't know if the rumours about sponsorship by Apple are anything more than that.

DC's goals remain as they were -- the Grand Tours.

However, given the robust cyclists they have on their team, they need to "spread out the wealth" a bit while still supporting Basso as leader for the Giro and the Tour. This is on top of trying to do well in races and find a sponsor -- including the two top stage races in the US. And on top of just DC finding it easier to win nowadays when they not only have great cyclists, but those cyclists are willing to work together to try and get one of them to win GC on one-week-type stage races.

I think the reason that DC is getting so many wins is that they have an amazing list of cyclists on board this year. These are cyclists who want to win the Tour of Californias, and Paris-Nices of the world. Leipheimer has said that CA is his favorite race (not necessarily the one he wants most to win, but it is close to where he lives). It was Contador who proposed trying to win Paris-Nice to Bruyneel, and Bruyneel accommodated Contador by sending him a strong team.

When you have so much talent -- esp talent that has in the past been accustomed to being a star on their old teams and who will have to work for Basso in two Grand Tours -- you see all sorts of possibilities for winning even without taking too much out of the team as a whole. You pacify the stars who have to work for Basso later, you gain additional publicity for the team, and you get some very nice wins. :p

On top of that, some wins or close calls are unexpected. For example, A Davis' second in Milan San-Remo was probably not seen as a high likelihood.

So, in contrast to CSC, DC is as focused on winning the GTs as it ever was. It's just finding it nice to pick up little juicy bonbons before the first GT.

yeah great but what about Tommy D ?

Well, Tommy D is going to get a dose of his medicine. After seriously faltering in his (personal) hope to do well at TdC (where Levi was the chosen leader), he served as domestique at Paris-Nice. TD will have teammates who have a good chance at usurping his designated leader role at TdG, just like TD was sending messages that he wanted to usurp Il Falco's role when he was supposed to be supporting Il Falco some time back. Haha.

The DC website acknowledges that Levi and Janez are waiting in the wings should TD falter at Georgia:

"A quick look at the 15 teams competing shows only a few riders who really have a chance at winning the TdG. For sure Discovery Channel's Tom Danielson goes in as the designated team leader and race favorite, and he will have a very powerful team (if not the most powerful one at TdG) backing him up. Should he not be able challenge for the title, Team DC will have both Levi Leipheimer and young sensation Jani Brajkovic right there ready to go. All eyes will be on Team Tinkoff for sure as they bring Tyler Hamilton back for his first race in the USA since the San Francisco Grand Prix way back in 2001. Prodir-Sainuer Duval features former Giro champ Gilberto Simoni but he has rarely done well on American roads, and although CSC is always a threatening team it's doubtful that their main man Dave Zabriskie will be able to contend atop Brasstown Bald. The US domestic teams feature Chris Baldwin (Toyota-United), Nathan O'Neill (Health Net-Maxxis), and Danny Pate (Slipstream-Chipotle) but the reality is that their teams usually cannot stay with the big Pro Tour riders day in and day out, so it's doubtful they will factor into the overall picture."

Apart from the underlined text, also noteworthy is how other teams are put down as not having what it takes to win GC at TdG. Apart from Tyler and his team, almost everybody else gets denigated a bit, including CSC and Dave Z. 🙂

So why won't Bruyneel comment on Basso ? He needs to speak.....

whiteboytrash said:

So why won't Bruyneel comment on Basso ? He needs to speak.....

They did comment in the press release didn't they?

[font=Verdana][font=Verdana]"We continue to stand behind Ivan and intend to cooperate with all parties involved until there is closure. It is unfortunate that this is now occurring, however, I have spoke to Ivan and although frustrated he agrees and understands with the decision we have taken," stated Sports Director Johan Bruyneel.[/font][/font]

Serafino said:

They did comment in the press release didn't they?

[font=Verdana][font=Verdana]"We continue to stand behind Ivan and intend to cooperate with all parties involved until there is closure. It is unfortunate that this is now occurring, however, I have spoke to Ivan and although frustrated he agrees and understands with the decision we have taken," stated Sports Director Johan Bruyneel.[/font][/font]

So he did.... no mention of innocence ?

whiteboytrash said:

So he did.... no mention of innocence ?

Stand behind Ivan says a lot (or as much as can be said). Of course, this all goes back to Riis. If IB is complicit, then Riis was his mentor and shouldn't be a DS.

No matter how you slice it, its been one long humiliating year for Cycling. Nobody comes out a winner in this sad affair. Still, let's see how the cookie crumbles. Certainly more people (Team personnel, etc.) had to be involved. Why are no higher-up heads rolling?

Serafino said:

Stand behind Ivan says a lot (or as much as can be said). Of course, this all goes back to Riis. If IB is complicit, then Riis was his mentor and shouldn't be a DS.

No matter how you slice it, its been one long humiliating year for Cycling. Nobody comes out a winner in this sad affair. Still, let's see how the cookie crumbles. Certainly more people (Team personnel, etc.) had to be involved. Why are no higher-up heads rolling?

Are you serious.... this is a good thing... finally ASO/UCI/WADA are working together and there going after the cheats... its not sad its great ! Hopefully it might make the younger riders think twice before reaching for the needle... Although I do agree that Bruyneel, Riis and co. need to go...

whiteboytrash said:

Are you serious.... this is a good thing... finally ASO/UCI/WADA are working together and there going after the cheats... its not sad its great ! Hopefully it might make the younger riders think twice before reaching for the needle... Although I do agree that Bruyneel, Riis and co. need to go...

At least Riis is saying the right things in public. Bruyneel comes across as an unrepentent supporter of doping. He should be the first to get sacked from the ProTour.

Bro Deal said:

At least Riis is saying the right things in public. Bruyneel comes across as an unrepentent supporter of doping. He should be the first to get sacked from the ProTour.

I never liked Riis as a rider but I do like him as a DS. Bruyneel showed no class as a rider or a DS. Anyone that decides to suck Indurain's wheel for an entire stage without taking a single pull only to sprint by him at the end is a complete POS.

I think the best analogy I have to a DS and the racers is like a parent to children. As a kid we all did stupid things, things we may have regretted, and as parents we try to discourage our children from making those same mistakes. I see the actions of Riis and the current TMob leadership acting in a responsible parental manner, while the actions of some DSs (Bruyneel and Lefevre) indicate they still are acting like children.

Bruyneel is waiting for applicable information, if any, to be developed.

That is what a reasonable and informed and mature person would do. Use their reasoning and their brain.

musette said:

Use their reasoning and their brain.

And their Epo. And their hGH. And their androgen replacements. And their corticosteroids. And their stored bags of blood. And their insulin. And their stimulants. And whatever else Dr Ferrari recommends.

musette said:

Bruyneel is waiting for applicable information, if any, to be developed.

That is what a reasonable and informed and mature person would do. Use their reasoning and their brain.

No, Bruyneel is waiting to see if Basso will get busted. Whether or not Basso has been doping does not matter to Disco's way of thinking.

Bro Deal said:

No, Bruyneel is waiting to see if Basso will get busted. Whether or not Basso has been doping does not matter to Disco's way of thinking.

I don't think it mattered to Riis either - until very recently when his sponsors pressured him to cut Basso loose. I mean this is the guy who had Hamilton AND Basso riding for him during periods wen they were probably two of the most high-profile dopers in the sport. I think the wisdom diplayed by team CSC was the result of intelligent management within the sponsors organization, who pressured Riis to do something he wouldn't have done on his own. I credit them for having the wisdom to read the handwriting on the wall and do take action, as opposed to the management at Discovery, who completely dropped the ball on this one.

fbircher said:

I don't think it mattered to Riis either - until very recently when his sponsors pressured him to cut Basso loose. I mean this is the guy who had Hamilton AND Basso riding for him during periods wen they were probably two of the most high-profile dopers in the sport. I think the wisdom diplayed by team CSC was the result of intelligent management within the sponsors organization, who pressured Riis to do something he wouldn't have done on his own. I credit them for having the wisdom to read the handwriting on the wall and do take action, as opposed to the management at Discovery, who completely dropped the ball on this one.

[font=Verdana]What I can't understand is why they signed Basso ? To come 4th in the Tour with Levi is better than hiring someone as volatile as Basso... especially now when they are shopping around for a new sponsor... what company is going to touch them now ? I think this could be the last year of the team... I can hardly see Armstrong hanging on to company which loses him money... [/font]

whiteboytrash said:

[font=Verdana]I can hardly see Armstrong hanging on to company which loses him money... [/font]

Maybe there is a Justice.
Bien mal acquis ne profite jamais.

poulidor said:

Bien mal acquis ne profite jamais.

I like that saying..... is it a popular French saying ?

whiteboytrash said:

I like that saying..... is it a popular French saying ?

yes, it's.

[size=2][quote="whiteboytrash"][/size][font=Verdana]What I can't understand is why they signed Basso ? To come 4th in the Tour with Levi is better than hiring someone as volatile as Basso... especially now when they are shopping around for a new sponsor... what company is going to touch them now ? I think this could be the last year of the team... I can hardly see Armstrong hanging on to company which loses him money... [/font][/QUOTE]

They probably felt that it was worth the risk (which was felt to be relatively minor at the time of his signing). Remember, the whole OP affair appeared to be dieing, Basso is [was?] the biggest Italian rider (ergo the Italian Federation would not damage him with a serious investigation), Discovery was on board for the long haul, and Basso has the stuff to win Giro and TdF in the same year.

And that way other teams that might have been interested in Ivan for GTs were left in the cold. Or so the logic was...