Discovering what that handle is for

The main purpose of the handle, for me, is to take some weight off my
crotch. Once that's accomplished (and I can then ride for much longer
periods of time), I think it offers some degree of stability as well,
once you get used to it. If you're used to riding freehand only, using
a handle will take a while to get comfortable.

Before touring handles and Cokers, it took me a year or two to learn to
hold onto the front of my saddle for racing or doing "hard stuff" but
it makes a big difference. It helps lock you down onto the unicycle,
gives you more torque to pedal (without lifting out of the saddle) and
it allows you to pedal really fast without wasting leg energy on
keeping the unicycle straight, for instance.

Where in "Moetown" were you riding?

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You noticed the Moetown, haha! Hines Park is where I rode in this
episode.

I have a question about getting weight off the crotch. Do you actually
lean on the handle, supporting weight through your arms? Seems as if
that's a bit like going seat in back, as the uni must lean back a bit
with weight up front there, correct? I've tinkered with that once or
twice and found it very tricky. I guess it takes a bit of practice to
get used to the different dynamics. You are absolutely right, "growing
up" freehand means grabbing a seat or a handle is very foreign.

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idiorythmic said:

You noticed the Moetown, haha! Hines Park is where I rode in this
episode.

I have a question about getting weight off the crotch. Do you actually
lean on the handle, supporting weight through your arms? Seems as if
that's a bit like going seat in back, as the uni must lean back a bit
with weight up front there, correct? I've tinkered with that once or
twice and found it very tricky. I guess it takes a bit of practice to
get used to the different dynamics. You are absolutely right, "growing
up" freehand means grabbing a seat or a handle is very foreign.

Sometimes I put some weight on one horn of the T7 using one hand and
push down so that the my crotch is lifted away from the front of the
saddle. I don't find this very easy to ride with so I don't stay
lifted very much for very long. But I still think it's useful.

One of the comfier positions I've found (although I currently prefer
doing this on the 29er which has longer cranks and I'm more stable on
at the moment) is to put both hands on the horns of the T7 and lean
forward gently on both of them. This places my body into a slightly
tucked position but also seems to shift weight off my sensitive areas
without requiring too much force on the handles. Obviously to do this
you need to be able to ride with both hands down on the handle...

When I got the T7 I'd been used to riding entirely hands-free - even
using the seat handle made me feel quite unstable at that time. I
found with a little practice I could keep a hand on the T7 and wave the
other one about (you don't have to grip it to practice this, you can
have that hand ready to wave too). Eventually, when I was riding
somewhere I felt safe to experiment, I tried to put my other hand onto
the other horn. Just gently - ready to wave it around at a moments'
notice, which I frequently needed to do. Whilst I got used to this, my
riding was a bit wobbly and not very straight. But once I got the hang
of it, I became able to correct balance and steering with subtle
movements of my body without really thinking about it. I still take a
hand off to go round sharper corners.

Combining the ability to cruise with 0, 1 or 2 hands down, plus
experimenting with different hand positions can give you quite a lot of
flexibility. I like to always ride with one hand on the T7 unless I'm
doing something very tricky. This has the added advantage that when
using short cranks, I always have a hold on the unicycle so that I
don't fly off the back if I have to backpedal really hard (e.g. a
suddent stop). It also has the advantage that if I -do- pop off the
back then I won't lose the uni bouncing off away from me and hitting
things!

Actually, this reminds me of one of my awesomest UPDs ever 🙂 I'd
recently put 114mm cranks on my 36" and wasn't used to them. I was
riding along fine, then decided to slow up suddenly. The effect of
doing this against the now tiny levers presented by the cranks was to
fling me bodily up in the air and off the back of the uni. I had a
hold of the T7 with my left hand and landed neatly standing behind the
uni, holding it in front of me. That was way cool, if a bit unexpected
😉 Oh, the joys of short cranks!

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Nice detail, Mark, thanks for sharing. I couldn't help thinking, as you
described your awesomest UPD, that you were going to say you landed
crotch-first on the wheel, which would have been truly an amazing UPD.
I'm glad you landed on your feet. 🙂

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idiorythmic said:

Hines Park is where I rode in this episode.

I did a few rides along there; the part that's connected to the I-275
bike path, on my old 45" big wheel. That would be in the Plymouth area,
between the years 1982-4.

Quoted message said:

Do you actually lean on the handle, supporting weight through your arms?

Yes, just like riding a bike. My handle doesn't lower me much, but even
in the semi-forward position of my partial tuck, I'm well aware of
being closer to a forward dismount if I get a surprise. Fortunately
this doesn't happen much, and I've ridden up to 17 miles without a
dismount. Just keep your shoelaces under control... :p (I'm currently
recovering from a broken collar bone)

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johnfoss said:

Yes, just like riding a bike. My handle doesn't lower me much, but even
in the semi-forward position of my partial tuck, I'm well aware of
being closer to a forward dismount if I get a surprise. Fortunately
this doesn't happen much, and I've ridden up to 17 miles without a
dismount. Just keep your shoelaces under control... :p (I'm currently
recovering from a broken collar bone)

Ouch! I guess the tradeoff with a more bike like position is more bike
like injuries- which tend to be things like broken collarbones. On the
other hand, hopefully this decreases your risk of ankle and leg
injuries (which IMHO is probably far worse).

The handles let you strectch out your body position and spread your
weight just like a bike. Your set up should be pretty similar Bikes
have had over a hundred years of development....and if it was more
efficient sitting on your bike upright with all the weight on the
saddle, I'm sure they would be set up that way.

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GizmoDuck said:

Ouch! I guess the tradeoff with a more bike like position is more bike
like injuries- which tend to be things like broken collarbones. On the
other hand, hopefully this decreases your risk of ankle and leg
injuries (which IMHO is probably far worse).

Hey, I never really thought of it that way. Falling on my face (actually
kind of on my side) could be better than whacking my ankle or leg
really bad.

That makes me feel better about my injury.... I guess! 🙂
(I've seen your x-rays)

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johnfoss said:

The main purpose of the handle, for me, is to take some weight off my
crotch.

Am I the only one who is bothered by that? $70 (USD) plus extra weight
to tote around for a T7 to make up for an uncomfortable saddle? And
then they tend break after enough mileage. Couldn't we come up with a
more comfortable saddle for $70 extra? Granted, there could be other
benefits for some, maybe... ?

Leaning over maybe? I experimented with leaning over more (without a
T7) during the local 70K ride, and I think that combined with <125 mm
cranks may be the key for me to bump up my speed, short of getting a
second gear. The leaning over stance feels more bike like, and it
seems to make faster spinning feel better, biomechanically speaking.

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You could spend another $70 on your seat, but then you'd still need a
touring handle! OK, maybe not NEED, but even the perfect seat will
still cause saddle soreness after a while, and taking weight off it
makes a difference.

The T7 may be heavy, and it may have a finite life, but its still the
best mass-produced touring handle out there....ok, the ONLY
mass-produced touring handle. Touring is the key word here, I
definitely won't use one for racing.

What I like about mine is that I can push it forward, and it pushes my
butt toward the back of my seat giving me a new position and a bit of
relief. I love the freeride/T7 combo.

One thing I've discovered, leaning forward doesn't work with geared
unicycles.

You hauled ass yesterday. I was cramping toward the end, and had a
spectacular UPD trying to climb a hill in Sausalito (I was on the v54)

phlegm said:

Am I the only one who is bothered by that? $70 (USD) plus extra weight
to tote around for a T7 to make up for an uncomfortable saddle? And
then they tend break after enough mileage. Couldn't we come up with a
more comfortable saddle for $70 extra? Granted, there could be other
benefits for some, maybe... ?

Leaning over maybe? I experimented with leaning over more (without a
T7) during the local 70K ride, and I think that combined with <125 mm
cranks may be the key for me to bump up my speed, short of getting a
second gear. The leaning over stance feels more bike like, and it
seems to make faster spinning feel better, biomechanically speaking.

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Quoted message said:

<> Unicycle for (reducing the) Buddha <><

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phlegm said:

Am I the only one who is bothered by that? $70 (USD) plus extra weight
to tote around for a T7 to make up for an uncomfortable saddle? And
then they tend break after enough mileage. Couldn't we come up with a
more comfortable saddle for $70 extra? Granted, there could be other
benefits for some, maybe... ?

Leaning over maybe? I experimented with leaning over more (without a
T7) during the local 70K ride, and I think that combined with <125 mm
cranks may be the key for me to bump up my speed, short of getting a
second gear. The leaning over stance feels more bike like, and it
seems to make faster spinning feel better, biomechanically speaking.

I personally don't notice a huge weight difference with having a T7
versus not having it. I use mine to shift in the saddle as I ride.
Having a better seat will be worth it, and I think the T7 is worth it
as well. Helps to have something to hang on to when you climb hills and
such. And once I get my dream 29er built, you can bet it will have a T7
on it, just as the one I have now does.

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mscalisi said:

You could spend another $70 on your seat, but then you'd still need a
touring handle! OK, maybe not NEED, but even the perfect seat will
still cause saddle soreness after a while, and taking weight off it
makes a difference.

But if a saddle were designed so that the "while" were around 200 miles
a day, it wouldn't matter. I can be optimistic, right? 😉

Quoted message said:

One thing I've discovered, leaning forward doesn't work with geared
unicycles.

Interesting. I wonder, could it be learned? Of course, at some point
a geared unicycle goes so fast that it's just humanly impossible to
push any faster, and the need to spin faster is no longer an issue.

Quoted message said:

You hauled ass yesterday. I was cramping toward the end, and had a
spectacular UPD trying to climb a hill in Sausalito (I was on the v54)

I kept expecting you and Tom to catch up, but I did catch a second wind
of sorts right after I crossed the Golden Gate bridge. That's where I
was trying my fast spinning in a forward leaning position.

The climb out of Sausalito? I imagine that was quite hard/impossible
with your v54. There were onlookers muttering something about me being
crazy when I rode up it on my tiny N36.

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phlegm said:

But if a saddle were designed so that the "while" were around 200 miles
a day, it wouldn't matter. I can be optimistic, right? 😉

Only problem is that if the saddle fit you so perfectly as to be that
comfortable, it'd probably be rather less comfortable to anyone but an
identical twin! Part of whether a T7 (or suchlike) is worth it largely
depends on how you're put together...

I use a T7 on my 36 and 29. I use a Fusion Freeride on one and a
Nimbus Gel on the other - both are widely considered generally comfy
saddles. And they are comfy, as far as unicycle saddles go. But I do
feel significantly comfier riding long distances if I use the T7 to
take some weight off my crotch. I guess if had something like a Wallis
road relief saddle then I might be comfy - but I suspect I'd -still-
want a handle to take weight of and be -even comfier-. My problem
isn't saddle soreness as such, it's a strong dislike of any crotch
pressure at all from the saddle - essentially, the saddle isn't
-un-comfortable, I just don't like sitting on saddles anyway 🙂 I
suspect others who favour touring handles have similar crotch-related
motivations.

Also, the T7 has a stack of other things going for it if you're touring
(e.g. bottle cages, light mounting, fitting a wedge bag, etc) which
don't apply if you're racing or doing short trips in daylight. That
offsets the weight of the thing somewhat too.

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johnfoss said:

I did a few rides along there; the part that's connected to the I-275
bike path, on my old 45" big wheel. That would be in the Plymouth area,
between the years 1982-4.

The ride I describe in this post was a bit farther east, between
Farmington Rd and Middlebelt. The part you're talking about caught my
eye because while looking for that connection to the 275 trail I also
found a gravel/sand horse path leading around the west and south sides
of Newburgh Lake. It's a nice place for some easy muni under a canopy
of trees. I have yet to ride it to its end, but I believe it comes out
on Ann Arbor Trail, right to the parking lot of a nice restaurant.
Could be a pleasant ride some Saturday or Sunday, particularly now that
the fall colors are in.

johnfoss said:

Just keep your shoelaces under control... :p (I'm currently recovering
from a broken collar bone)

I recall you posting about that recently. I hope it heals quick.

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mark williamson said:

Only problem is that if the saddle fit you so perfectly as to be that
comfortable, it'd probably be rather less comfortable to anyone but an
identical twin! Part of whether a T7 (or suchlike) is worth it largely
depends on how you're put together...

So what we need is a relatively inexpensive process for turning a
crotch mold into a custom saddle, right? That sounds almost as funny
as "crotch-related motivations." 😄

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I got a Nimbus deluxe 36" in August. It's awesome! I got it with the
KH air saddle and the T7 of course. The air saddle is really
comfortable and cushy. The only thing is that the tubes don't line up
perfect and they can shift to one side leaving your sensitive areas
pushing on the seat frame sometimes, Ouch!🙁
The T7 is great. It really allows you to make the comfortable air seat
even more comfortable. I got some nice bike handle grips from a bike
shop for free😄 (They love me). I cut the bottoms off and used them to
pad the back of the handle and used the rest to put on the front. This
makes the T7 more grippy and protects it. I still have some nasty
dings though. Anyway i ride my 36er to school which is about 6 miles
round trip. It takes me only 15 minutes to get there and 17-20 to get
back because it's uphill a lot! Getting to school and back is cake and
36er T7 combo can't be beat. Unless you geared it maybe?😕

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uniaddict said:

I got a Nimbus deluxe 36" in August. It's awesome! ... 36er T7 combo
can't be beat. Unless you geared it maybe?😕

Have you seen '-this thread-' (http://tinyurl.com/2unz4c)?

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phlegm said:

So what we need is a relatively inexpensive process for turning a crotch
mold into a custom saddle, right? That sounds almost as funny as
"crotch-related motivations." 😄

I'll admit I did grin a bit when I wrote that 😉

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phlegm said:

$70 (USD) plus extra weight to tote around for a T7 to make up for an
uncomfortable saddle?

You could try that custom crotch mold idea, but I think it would set you
back considerably more than the extra $70. Meanwhile, it will still be
more comfortable to take some of your weight off the seat by using a
handle. At least that's true for me.

If you're on a road bike, properly adjusted for optimum position, you
suppposedly ride with about 40% of your weight on the handlebars. If it
works for bikes... And bike seats already have the advantage in that
your pelvic structure sits on them at a different angle than on a
unicycle. We're much more vertical, which makes it harder to get
comfortable if you ask me.

Unicycle seats have improved a lot since I got into this sport. A real
lot. But I still like it a lot better to take some of the weight off.
Of course if I rode more often I'd have less weight to take off... :p

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