Disco getting desperate

Actually, swimming is just another sport where there are some sophisticated doping practices going on. It's just that most of the busts as far as the media is concerned is from a bunch of anonymous, slant eyed, [censored] (not my view) It virtually has no impact and thus men's swimming, unlike cycling, is generally regarded as a clean, wholesome sport dominated on the whole by fine, upstanding, US college educated, white boys. They are fortunate indeed that little suspicion devolves on them and the commercial merry go round can swim along unimpeded.

[font=Verdana]Good post. Reminds me a lot of Floyd. Although he's to stupid to become a lawyer or even think of studying. He needs to grasp the English language first before embarking on study. - which begs the question ? How did he mange to write book if he can't read ?[/font]

wicklow200 said:

Yes until the dope test she was ireland's greatest ever sportsperson. She was a superstar at home.

And of course there was a huge fallout in the aftermath of the announcement about her screwed up test. A lot of people just remain plain confused until today.

A lot of the media and some good and influential irish journalists took the opinion that she doped and were very hostile to her from that moment. They went on to investigate her rise to the top of her sport, how it wasnt possible to gain so much so quickly.

Its not like there weren't some suspicions already. There were rumours circulating during the Games from other swimmers. The clincher for many was the fact that her husband/coach had tested positive in the past.

But it was a very black night of the soul for the Irish public. Smith had this amazingly wholesome image. She was the only thing people talked about for weeks after the games. Smith was articulate, modest, and charming. A fluent Gaelic speaker in a country that certainly valued that very highly.

Her explanations at the time: De Bruin changed her training methods and now she was training smart. It just seemed to prove that good guys could succeed with a lot of hard work.

The trouble is that the arbitration dragged on for quite a while, and I think by the time the verdict came in people were just fatigued by the whole thing. It was also a very strange at the time, and probably even today, to hear that a urine test got contaminated by alcohol. The majority of the public just couldnt get past that particular fact

Smith very sensibly slipped out of the limelight and took up a new career in law.

She doesn't do interviews anymore. She doesn't live in the capital city so that also takes the pressure off. She has never admitted anything.

I am sure there is a huge body of people who believe her to be innocent. But they would be those in the general public who are not connected to sports too much.

whiteboytrash said:

[font=Verdana]Good post. Reminds me a lot of Floyd. Although he's to stupid to become a lawyer or even think of studying. He needs to grasp the English language first before embarking on study. - which begs the question ? How did he mange to write book if he can't read ?[/font]

It was ghost written by Tyler Hamilton's vanishing twin.

Gregers said:

Actually, swimming is just another sport where there are some sophisticated doping practices going on. It's just that most of the busts as far as the media is concerned is from a bunch of anonymous, slant eyed, [censored] (not my view) It virtually has no impact and thus men's swimming, unlike cycling, is generally regarded as a clean, wholesome sport dominated on the whole by fine, upstanding, US college educated, white boys. They are fortunate indeed that little suspicion devolves on them and the commercial merry go round can swim along unimpeded.

Yes. But let us not forget about Aussie Ian Thorpe who has yet to explain why he had female fertility hormones (lutenizing drugs) in his urine sample last summer---along with exogenous testsoterone.

Thorpe abruptly retired at age 23 last year. Why? Had his deal expired?

Olympic swimmers must dope too.

whiteboytrash said:

[font=Verdana]Good post. Reminds me a lot of Floyd. Although he's to stupid to become a lawyer or even think of studying. He needs to grasp the English language first before embarking on study. - which begs the question ? How did he mange to write book if he can't read ?[/font]

Would that be "to" or "too" stupid WBT?

The irony of such a rudimentary slip in grammar and/or spelling within a post which attacks another person's intelligence.

Who needs to grasp the English language first before embarking upon attacks in internet forums. Rhetorical question. The answer WBT!

:p

P.S. I'm sure it was "just" a typo 😉

patch70 said:

Actually that is not entirely accurate.

Super endurance sports like Pro Cycling and IM triathlons can potentially damage heart muscle. A study was done of people finishing an Ironman race and the athletes had echocardiograms performed and troponin levels measured. Quite a few had terrible echo results with non-functioning right ventricles that took several weeks to resolve. They also tended to have elevated troponin levels indicating cardiac muscle damage. There is a theory at least that the micro-scarring from such injuries could be why some of these athletes have later problems with episodes of Ventricular Tachycardia, which can be exercise induced.

If Yates gets VT on the bike, then his heart is pretty bad and he would be advised not to ride,

This is true. Also, if you increase the viscosity of the blood through EPO or blood packing, the valves of the heart can tear or become worn out prematurely.

Serafino said:

And we should believe you becuase ...... 😕

I forgot, its because the Irish don't dope. Its all Guiness and Potatoes

Whether you choose to believe what I've said about racing in my country in the 1980's..........is your decision.

Neither I or anyone I raced with, or against, doped.
And that is a fact.

Unlike your country, we raced clean in the 1980's.

We know what your lot were up to at Los Angeles in 1984 with your country's deliberate coverup of positive tests.

Serafino said:

Last to first: Irish swimmer Michelle Smith
Irish eyes were smiling during the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games. Michelle Smith was the pride of Ireland after winning three gold and one bronze medal in the pool.

No one else was smiling. Her rise to the top of the swimming world was extremely suspicious.

In two previous Olympic Games, Smith's best result was 17th in the 200-metre backstroke.

In 1993, she was ranked 90th in the world in the 400 individual medley, but after training with husband Erik de Bruin – a former Dutch discus thrower who was under a four-year suspension for failing a drug test – she vaulted into 17th in the world by the next year.

By Atlanta, the 26-year-old Smith had won several European titles and trimmed a whopping 17 seconds off two personal bests.

After her Olympic success, it was discovered that FINA, swimming's international federation, had repeatedly expressed concern that Smith was unavailable for out-of-competition drug tests from 1995 onward.

Finally, in 1998, two drug testers showed up at Smith and de Bruin's home.

Smith gave them a sample, but because she was wearing a bulky sweater, the tester couldn't see what she was doing. The sample was sealed and sent to a Barcelona lab for examination. The results were shocking. The sample contained a level of alcohol that would be fatal if consumed by a human.

FINA concluded that the sample had been manipulated, that whiskey had been added as a masking agent and they suspended Smith for four years.

Those athletes who finished behind Smith in 1996 – including Canadians Marianne Limpert (silver) and Joanne Malar (fourth) in the 200IM – can only wonder what might have been.

The Michelle Smith case was a cause celebre at the time.

Having destroyed the field at Atlanta in 1996 - there was a sizable body of media opinion in my country who openly questioned her about her "improvement".
Throughout late 1996, throughout 1997 and in to 1998, she was constantly questioned and asked how she managed to improve.
Tom Humphries of the Irish Times in particular pursued her.
She used the same defence as others who doped ie "I haven't failed a test" etc.

She was convicted of tampering with a sample in 1998, for a sample taken in 1998.

wicklow200 said:

Yes until the dope test she was ireland's greatest ever sportsperson. She was a superstar at home.

And of course there was a huge fallout in the aftermath of the announcement about her screwed up test. A lot of people just remain plain confused until today.

A lot of the media and some good and influential irish journalists took the opinion that she doped and were very hostile to her from that moment. They went on to investigate her rise to the top of her sport, how it wasnt possible to gain so much so quickly.

Its not like there weren't some suspicions already. There were rumours circulating during the Games from other swimmers. The clincher for many was the fact that her husband/coach had tested positive in the past.

But it was a very black night of the soul for the Irish public. Smith had this amazingly wholesome image. She was the only thing people talked about for weeks after the games. Smith was articulate, modest, and charming. A fluent Gaelic speaker in a country that certainly valued that very highly.

Her explanations at the time: De Bruin changed her training methods and now she was training smart. It just seemed to prove that good guys could succeed with a lot of hard work.

The trouble is that the arbitration dragged on for quite a while, and I think by the time the verdict came in people were just fatigued by the whole thing. It was also a very strange at the time, and probably even today, to hear that a urine test got contaminated by alcohol. The majority of the public just couldnt get past that particular fact

Smith very sensibly slipped out of the limelight and took up a new career in law.

She doesn't do interviews anymore. She doesn't live in the capital city so that also takes the pressure off. She has never admitted anything.

I am sure there is a huge body of people who believe her to be innocent. But they would be those in the general public who are not connected to sports too much.

Wicklow : Michelle Smith is one character you'd be very foolish to underestimate.

Your recollection of the case and it's fallout is accurate.

There is an interesting epilogue to this :
Michelle completed her barristers exams at the Kings Inns, as Gaelige, and finished in first place in Ireland.
She is currently devilling.
The girl is one determined character.

Gregers said:

I was always curious as to what became of Smith , who I seem to recall is now a Barrister.

Correct, she finished in first place in the Bar exams last year, having done her exams through Irish.
Exceptional.

Gregers said:

What I don't know is how public perception of her changed when the drug problem arose. Was it greeted with disbelief as these things are in most countries ('she's one of ours, these things can't be true' etc.) or did she become the subject of national opprobrium? Does she continue to deny that she was a cheat and is there a hard core of true believers who refuse to believe that she was a fraud despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary? (Not making any analogies here, of course.)
Can anyone fill in the background on this? It is usually quite interesting to see how different countries react to the exposure of their drugged athletes.

This case split the country.

Sport is taken very seriously here : I think that it is fair to say that Michelle Smith did have a lot of supporters.
She also had a lot of detractors.

Many were outraged that an athlete from this country would stoop to the levels of cheating in order to win.
That she would represent this country and do so while cheating offended a lot of people.
Her supporters contend that all her competitors were dopers anyhow and that if she did dope that she was merely levelling the field.

The sense of fair play which pertains in this country ultimately prevailed and Michelle lost a lot of corporate backing and public backing.
The fact that she didn't fail a test didn't mitigate the fact that she did do something to sabotage a test taken in 1998.

Clearly a women of drive and high intelligence-though she didn't deploy it very effectively with her Whiskey In The Jar stunt.
Lim, do you happen to know whether she stayed wed to the discus chucking Dutchman?

Gregers said:

Clearly a women of drive and high intelligence-though she didn't deploy it very effectively with her Whiskey In The Jar stunt.
Lim, do you happen to know whether she stayed wed to the discus chucking Dutchman?

She's still married to Erik and they live in a place called Kells in Kilkenny.

She is a very smart woman - there's no doubt.
And I think that is why people doubted her defence when the case about the sample tampering became public and her defence seemed to be convoluted and implausible.

There's a host of fascinating subplots with regard to the testers who conducted the out of competition tests in 1998 on Michelle Smith.
But this isn't the forum to discuss that issue.

Thanks for that. It all sounds very intriguing but then there always seems to be sub plots and agendas where drug testing is concerned-regardless of the sport. Oh for the day when we hear 'Well, I've been caught bang to rights, guv. You certainly have, that'll be two years. Next case.'
But then holding my breath waiting for this will result in an assured death.

limerickman said:

Wicklow : Michelle Smith is one character you'd be very foolish to underestimate.

Your recollection of the case and it's fallout is accurate.

There is an interesting epilogue to this :
Michelle completed her barristers exams at the Kings Inns, as Gaelige, and finished in first place in Ireland.
She is currently devilling.
The girl is one determined character.

Sounds like she picked a profession which fits her morals

Disco is really getting desperate now. They've "gone green." What that means for a cycling team I am not quite sure, but maybe it will impress a potential sponsor who is not thinking clearly. Perhaps this also indicates that the search to land a big Chinese company has failed and now they want to target a company of Western metrosexuals.

By your country he means the United States of America. The country that is currently freeing Iraq from the tyranny of self governance. Watch out Canada...you are next.

The reference to the 1984 Olympics is a reference to Dr. Fuentes style blood doping perpetrated by most of the USA cycling team during those Olympics. Yep. Those gold medals were tainted...I am sure you must know this.

God bless Scooter Libby and the Coca-Cola Company of Atlanta, Georgia.

Serafino said:

The delusions are coming on fast and thick? One on top of the other!

What would "my country" be? To whom do you refer by the phrase "your lot"?

Please inform ....

P.S. You anti-Americanism is starting to show.

When a valid and accurate remark is stated about the events of 1984 you make a facile reduction to it being simply down to naked hatred. You do your fair minded countrymen no favours when you and so many others stoop to these puerile retorts. It is grotesquely simplistic to dismiss any criticisms of your country, however true or restrained they may be, and come to the predictable conclusion that they are inspired by hatred and its ever-present twin, jealousy.

Serafino said:

Confirmed! He is delusional then ... driven by his hatred he sees Americans everywhere ... can't stop talking about 1984, even to those without any connections to the US of A.

Sorry to disappoint you [img]cyclingforums.comtongue.gifOpen ↗[/img]

Let's get back to discussing doping in Irish sport, and the deep dark conspiracies with sank Michelle Smith. [img]cyclingforums.comsmile.gifOpen ↗[/img] [img]cyclingforums.comrolleyes.gifOpen ↗[/img]

Gregers said:

When a valid and accurate remark is stated about the events of 1984 you make a facile reduction to it being simply down to naked hatred. You do your fair minded countrymen no favours when you and so many others stoop to these puerile retorts. It is grotesquely simplistic to dismiss any criticisms of your country, however true or restrained they may be, and come to the predictable conclusion that they are inspired by hatred and its ever-present twin, jealousy.

You're just as delusional. Want me to spell it out for you? You seem incapable of getting the not so subtle hint. I'm not American. Born and raised in the EU. The USA is not my country. You're too blind in your hatred to even read and understand a simple post.

Take you invective bashing elsewhere. You are embarrasing yourself.

Gregers said:

When a valid and accurate remark is stated about the events of 1984 you make a facile reduction to it being simply down to naked hatred. You do your fair minded countrymen no favours when you and so many others stoop to these puerile retorts. It is grotesquely simplistic to dismiss any criticisms of your country, however true or restrained they may be, and come to the predictable conclusion that they are inspired by hatred and its ever-present twin, jealousy.

I nominate the above for this month's "Most Obvious Use of Thesaurus" award.

Everything stated here is not true as I happen to know that jealousy had a [censored] job and now does not resemble hatred that much anymore.
Hatred is now envious. Yes, that right a change of identity.

fscyclist said:

Sounds like she picked a profession which fits her morals

LOL! Like a thief getting a job as a security guard. How ironic.