Disco getting desperate

cyclingheroes said:

I didn't do the interview myself. In the interview there is no talk about doping. If you read my book (at the end of the year), you will get the picture.

Okay, will we get serialised excerpts on cyclingforums pre-publication? 🙂

cyclingheroes said:

I didn't do the interview myself. In the interview there is no talk about doping. If you read my book (at the end of the year), you will get the picture.

I know its Sevilla... it was a typo..... what book are you writing...? Do i get a mention in it ? 🙄

whiteboytrash said:

I know its Sevilla... it was a typo..... what book are you writing...? Do i get a mention in it ? 🙄

No its about facts.

cyclingheroes said:

No its about facts.

Touche!

fscyclist said:

My question was loaded...what I was trying to get at was you can't say cycling is a completely dirty sport, then retort that you didn't use.

He condemns the sport as being dirty - then when as ked if he doped, he says no!

Cuckoo land.

fscyclist said:

I didn't use because it would've ruined the purpose of competing. I know a lot of others who feel the same way, and we don't ride big wheels.

.....here, here.

Neither I or any of my friends/rivals took so much as an aspirin.
I know for a fact that the lads I raced against didn't take anything either (early - mid 1980's).
It was a badge of honour to train hard and to suffer.

3 of the guys I raced against went on to ride professionally and raced in the GT's.

Can't speak for any other country.

I wouldn't be able to dope and lie about it.

limerickman said:

He condemns the sport as being dirty - then when as ked if he doped, he says no!

Cuckoo land.

.....here, here.

Neither I or any of my friends/rivals took so much as an aspirin.
I know for a fact that the lads I raced against didn't take anything either (early - mid 1980's).
It was a badge of honour to train hard and to suffer.

3 of the guys I raced against went on to ride professionally and raced in the GT's.

Can't speak for any other country.

I wouldn't be able to dope and lie about it.

Lim did you know Sean Yates's heart went last week..... he's not allowed to ride anymore at all - nothing... docs orders......... do you know much about his past ?

whiteboytrash said:

Lim did you know Sean Yates's heart went last week..... he's not allowed to ride anymore at all - nothing... docs orders......... do you know much about his past ?

I didn't know that Yates had a heart scare last week.

I don't know much about Yates except that he was a superdomestique for years
at Fagor, Motorola : great engine by all accounts.

limerickman said:

I didn't know that Yates had a heart scare last week.

I don't know much about Yates except that he was a superdomestique for years
at Fagor, Motorola : great engine by all accounts.

From his diary in May but I read later that his heart actually went last week and doctors said nothing at all:

I should have been in Romandie last week but I have had another health scare-warning which meant I have been spending time in hospital and seeing specialists etc. The verdict. My heart is worn out and I need to take things a lot easier than I have been up until now unless I want to jeopardise my long term health. It was my third warning, and this time I think I should sit up
and take note.
So, what does that mean? It means no biking for two months, go for another check up and if things have settled down I will be able to partake in gentle riding, nothing above 30mph. So that means come Aug-Sept I should be doing my day rides again.
Most of you are probably thinking it must be bloody hard to stop just like that, I guess it is in a way. On the other hand I know I have had a fantastic run, and have achieved a lot. And that I should be more than happy with that. Which I am.

whiteboytrash said:

From his diary in May but I read later that his heart actually went last week and doctors said nothing at all:

I should have been in Romandie last week but I have had another health scare-warning which meant I have been spending time in hospital and seeing specialists etc. The verdict. My heart is worn out and I need to take things a lot easier than I have been up until now unless I want to jeopardise my long term health. It was my third warning, and this time I think I should sit up
and take note.
So, what does that mean? It means no biking for two months, go for another check up and if things have settled down I will be able to partake in gentle riding, nothing above 30mph. So that means come Aug-Sept I should be doing my day rides again.
Most of you are probably thinking it must be bloody hard to stop just like that, I guess it is in a way. On the other hand I know I have had a fantastic run, and have achieved a lot. And that I should be more than happy with that. Which I am.

Thanks for the update WBT.

He's going to take it easy and ride no faster than 30mph!
That says it all.

DC's form this season can't be doing his ticker any good either!

EXCEPT:

Your heart does NOT wear out. Not until beyond age 114+

So there must be another explanation.

bbc.co.uktour de france sean yates feature.shtmlOpen ↗

I sincerely hope Sean does not have the same issue that Motorola teammate Michael Zanoli did. (died at age 35 on 12/29/2003)

No competent physician is ever seriously going to tell a relatively young, ex-professional athlete that his heart has worn out. FFS the heart isn't a knee joint. It doesn't have hard, contiguous surfaces that can eventually be abraded away with over use.
It's almost as if the Old Pro is trying to explain away his health problem by implying that he's used his ageing heart so much that the poor thing has just 'worn out'. Being charitable, he's just over-simplifying things with an infantile, layman's explanation. Being cynical (current circumstances almost demands it) there is a much more likely and darker explanation.

Gregers said:

No competent physician is ever seriously going to tell a relatively young, ex-professional athlete that his heart has worn out. FFS the heart isn't a knee joint. It doesn't have hard, contiguous surfaces that can eventually be abraded away with over use.
It's almost as if the Old Pro is trying to explain away his health problem by implying that he's used his ageing heart so much that the poor thing has just 'worn out'. Being charitable, he's just over-simplifying things with an infantile, layman's explanation. Being cynical (current circumstances almost demands it) there is a much more likely and darker explanation.

Like a [censored] load of drugs and some very very thick blood that the heart can no longer pump around the body.... son get on the blood thinners or you're going to die.....

Gregers said:

No competent physician is ever seriously going to tell a relatively young, ex-professional athlete that his heart has worn out. FFS the heart isn't a knee joint. It doesn't have hard, contiguous surfaces that can eventually be abraded away with over use.
It's almost as if the Old Pro is trying to explain away his health problem by implying that he's used his ageing heart so much that the poor thing has just 'worn out'. Being charitable, he's just over-simplifying things with an infantile, layman's explanation. Being cynical (current circumstances almost demands it) there is a much more likely and darker explanation.

Actually that is not entirely accurate.

Super endurance sports like Pro Cycling and IM triathlons can potentially damage heart muscle. A study was done of people finishing an Ironman race and the athletes had echocardiograms performed and troponin levels measured. Quite a few had terrible echo results with non-functioning right ventricles that took several weeks to resolve. They also tended to have elevated troponin levels indicating cardiac muscle damage. There is a theory at least that the micro-scarring from such injuries could be why some of these athletes have later problems with episodes of Ventricular Tachycardia, which can be exercise induced.

If Yates gets VT on the bike, then his heart is pretty bad and he would be advised not to ride,

patch70 said:

Super endurance sports like Pro Cycling and IM triathlons can potentially damage heart muscle. A study was done of people finishing an Ironman race and the athletes had echocardiograms performed and troponin levels measured. Quite a few had terrible echo results with non-functioning right ventricles that took several weeks to resolve. They also tended to have elevated troponin levels indicating cardiac muscle damage. There is a theory at least that the micro-scarring from such injuries could be why some of these athletes have later problems with episodes of Ventricular Tachycardia, which can be exercise induced.

Yow! I'm screwed.

Stive Vermaut? age 28

Michael Zanoli? age 35

Tim Pauwels? age 22

Denis Zanette? age 32

Marco Rusconi? age 24

Fabrice Salanson? age 23

Johan Sermon? age 21

Jose Maria Jimenez? age 32

Marco Pantani? age 34

limerickman said:

Neither I or any of my friends/rivals took so much as an aspirin.
I know for a fact that the lads I raced against didn't take anything either (early - mid 1980's).
It was a badge of honour to train hard and to suffer.

3 of the guys I raced against went on to ride professionally and raced in the GT's.

Can't speak for any other country.

I wouldn't be able to dope and lie about it.

And we should believe you becuase ...... 😕

I forgot, its because the Irish don't dope. Its all Guiness and Potatoes

Then again .....

[IMG]cbc.casmith michelle1996.jpgOpen ↗[/IMG]

Last to first: Irish swimmer Michelle Smith
Irish eyes were smiling during the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games. Michelle Smith was the pride of Ireland after winning three gold and one bronze medal in the pool.

No one else was smiling. Her rise to the top of the swimming world was extremely suspicious.

In two previous Olympic Games, Smith's best result was 17th in the 200-metre backstroke.

In 1993, she was ranked 90th in the world in the 400 individual medley, but after training with husband Erik de Bruin – a former Dutch discus thrower who was under a four-year suspension for failing a drug test – she vaulted into 17th in the world by the next year.

By Atlanta, the 26-year-old Smith had won several European titles and trimmed a whopping 17 seconds off two personal bests.

After her Olympic success, it was discovered that FINA, swimming's international federation, had repeatedly expressed concern that Smith was unavailable for out-of-competition drug tests from 1995 onward.

Finally, in 1998, two drug testers showed up at Smith and de Bruin's home.

Smith gave them a sample, but because she was wearing a bulky sweater, the tester couldn't see what she was doing. The sample was sealed and sent to a Barcelona lab for examination. The results were shocking. The sample contained a level of alcohol that would be fatal if consumed by a human.

FINA concluded that the sample had been manipulated, that whiskey had been added as a masking agent and they suspended Smith for four years.

Those athletes who finished behind Smith in 1996 – including Canadians Marianne Limpert (silver) and Joanne Malar (fourth) in the 200IM – can only wonder what might have been.

Sean Kelly overdosed on EPO with Team PDM in the 1990 Tour.

We had to wait until 1997 to confirm that 'food poisoning' was really just secret code for a Wim Sanders EPO overdosing.

The great Sean Kelly used EPO too. Just like Bjarne Riis, Erik Zabel & Frankie Andreu all did.

I was always curious as to what became of Smith , who I seem to recall is now a Barrister. At one time she was the most celebrated figure in the Republic with genuine hero status. What I don't know is how public perception of her changed when the drug problem arose. Was it greeted with disbelief as these things are in most countries ('she's one of ours, these things can't be true' etc.) or did she become the subject of national opprobrium? Does she continue to deny that she was a cheat and is there a hard core of true believers who refuse to believe that she was a fraud despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary? (Not making any analogies here, of course.)
Can anyone fill in the background on this? It is usually quite interesting to see how different countries react to the exposure of their drugged athletes.

Serafino said:

And we should believe you becuase ...... 😕

I forgot, its because the Irish don't dope. Its all Guiness and Potatoes

Then again .....

[img]cbc.casmith michelle1996.jpgOpen ↗[/img]

Last to first: Irish swimmer Michelle Smith
Irish eyes were smiling during the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games. Michelle Smith was the pride of Ireland after winning three gold and one bronze medal in the pool.

No one else was smiling. Her rise to the top of the swimming world was extremely suspicious.

In two previous Olympic Games, Smith's best result was 17th in the 200-metre backstroke.

In 1993, she was ranked 90th in the world in the 400 individual medley, but after training with husband Erik de Bruin – a former Dutch discus thrower who was under a four-year suspension for failing a drug test – she vaulted into 17th in the world by the next year.

By Atlanta, the 26-year-old Smith had won several European titles and trimmed a whopping 17 seconds off two personal bests.

After her Olympic success, it was discovered that FINA, swimming's international federation, had repeatedly expressed concern that Smith was unavailable for out-of-competition drug tests from 1995 onward.

Finally, in 1998, two drug testers showed up at Smith and de Bruin's home.

Smith gave them a sample, but because she was wearing a bulky sweater, the tester couldn't see what she was doing. The sample was sealed and sent to a Barcelona lab for examination. The results were shocking. The sample contained a level of alcohol that would be fatal if consumed by a human.

FINA concluded that the sample had been manipulated, that whiskey had been added as a masking agent and they suspended Smith for four years.

Those athletes who finished behind Smith in 1996 – including Canadians Marianne Limpert (silver) and Joanne Malar (fourth) in the 200IM – can only wonder what might have been.

Gregers said:

I was always curious as to what became of Smith , who I seem to recall is now a Barrister. At one time she was the most celebrated figure in the Republic with genuine hero status. What I don't know is how public perception of her changed when the drug problem arose. Was it greeted with disbelief as these things are in most countries ('she's one of ours, these things can't be true' etc.) or did she become the subject of national opprobrium? Does she continue to deny that she was a cheat and is there a hard core of true believers who refuse to believe that she was a fraud despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary? (Not making any analogies here, of course.)
Can anyone fill in the background on this? It is usually quite interesting to see how different countries react to the exposure of their drugged athletes.

Yes until the dope test she was ireland's greatest ever sportsperson. She was a superstar at home.

And of course there was a huge fallout in the aftermath of the announcement about her screwed up test. A lot of people just remain plain confused until today.

A lot of the media and some good and influential irish journalists took the opinion that she doped and were very hostile to her from that moment. They went on to investigate her rise to the top of her sport, how it wasnt possible to gain so much so quickly.

Its not like there weren't some suspicions already. There were rumours circulating during the Games from other swimmers. The clincher for many was the fact that her husband/coach had tested positive in the past.

But it was a very black night of the soul for the Irish public. Smith had this amazingly wholesome image. She was the only thing people talked about for weeks after the games. Smith was articulate, modest, and charming. A fluent Gaelic speaker in a country that certainly valued that very highly.

Her explanations at the time: De Bruin changed her training methods and now she was training smart. It just seemed to prove that good guys could succeed with a lot of hard work.

The trouble is that the arbitration dragged on for quite a while, and I think by the time the verdict came in people were just fatigued by the whole thing. It was also a very strange at the time, and probably even today, to hear that a urine test got contaminated by alcohol. The majority of the public just couldnt get past that particular fact

Smith very sensibly slipped out of the limelight and took up a new career in law.

She doesn't do interviews anymore. She doesn't live in the capital city so that also takes the pressure off. She has never admitted anything.

I am sure there is a huge body of people who believe her to be innocent. But they would be those in the general public who are not connected to sports too much.

Thanks very much for that. At the time, I'm sure there were plenty of us who knew a bit about her previous history of under achievement+husband who didn't buy the extraordinarily rapid rise from mediocrity to World beater. It just seemed so transparently suspicious. Just like some others. (Cue outrage)