Dirt road touring frames"

The Rivendell Atlantis in 58 and over uses 700 C wheels. I can't imagine a
frame with greater tire clearance. I use a 56cm model which is designed
around 26 inch wheels, for off road commuting and rough roads where
everyone else uses mountain bikes.

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY

"datakoll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Suggestions on best steel 29er (or cylcocross) frame for fireroad,
dirt road, gravel road, sand track, railroad roadbed touring? No
suspension except for the tires.

datakoll aka gene daniels said:

Suggestions on best steel 29er (or cylcocross) frame for fireroad,
dirt road, gravel road, sand track, railroad roadbed touring? No
suspension except for the tires.

See <http://www.corriere.it/Media/Foto/2006/02_Febbraio/04/fdg/BICI.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Humans are not Peterbilt trucks..." - Jobst Brandt

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

datakoll said:

Suggestions on best steel 29er (or cylcocross) frame for fireroad,
dirt road, gravel road, sand track, railroad roadbed touring? No
suspension except for the tires.

Any touring bike that's capable of fat enough tires would be fine. For
my buck, I'd go for a complete Surly Cross-Check if I was touring
light or an LHT if going heavy. Both are tremendous deals as complete
bikes.

If I was on a budget, I'd grab a Windsor Tourist, some Sapim DB
spokes, a six pack of beer, and spend an evening making the wheels
stupid strong.

It really all depends on how much you are going to carry, and if you
want a touring bike geometry or something more responsive.

The Jamis Aurora and Bianchi Volpe would also make my value list.

Whichever bike I chose, I'd likely swap the tires for what the journey
called for, and the bars for either a Nitto Noodle in super wide, or a
moustache bar. You want leverage when the pave ends.

"datakoll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Suggestions on best steel 29er (or cylcocross) frame for fireroad,
dirt road, gravel road, sand track, railroad roadbed touring? No
suspension except for the tires.

Surly Cross Check
http://www.surlybikes.com/crosscheck.html

Can buy it as a frame or a complete bike. A little heavy but probably almost
indestructible.
Bill

"datakoll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Suggestions on best steel 29er (or cylcocross) frame for fireroad,
dirt road, gravel road, sand track, railroad roadbed touring? No
suspension except for the tires.

A 29er refers to a mountain bike with a high BB. You want a touring bike
with capacity for fat tires I think. Besides the ATlantis that I recommended
I'd also recommend a Heron Touring /Wafarer bike as it can handle real fat
tires too. I use 37 mm tires with fenders on mine. I'd think that the Surly
LHT is more suitable than the cross check as the BB is probably lower and
that is thought to increase stability.

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

datakoll aka gene daniels said:

Suggestions on best steel 29er (or cylcocross) frame for fireroad,
dirt road, gravel road, sand track, railroad roadbed touring? No
suspension except for the tires.

See <http://www.corriere.it/Media/Foto/2006/02_Febbraio/04/fdg/BICI.jpg>.

--

Isn't that Sheldon?

datakoll said:

Suggestions on best steel 29er (or cylcocross) frame for fireroad,
dirt road, gravel road, sand track, railroad roadbed touring? No
suspension except for the tires.

It really depends on what tire sizes you want access to, what kind of
weight you're carrying, what braze-ons you want/need, whether you want
to be able to run discs, whether you actually want the kind of
aggressive geometry that 9'ers and cross bikes all have, and how
strong/heavy it needs to be.

If you actually intend to ride sand much, you're going to want access
to very fat tires, like 2.3's, which rules out cross and touring bikes
and limits your options quite a bit for 9er framesets. And it still
won't be that great even with the 2.3, so it might be worth not caring
about the sand thing.

Nate- what do have in mind with "aggressive geometry"?
sand, cinders, gravel: Conti and Michelin make tires around 2". 2''
should handle packed surfaces or wet surfaces but if not loose
surfaces.
the total idea is to ROLL along not fight the bike thru it as happpens
with a 700x32c eventually planting your head into the road surface.

Hank Wirtz said:

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

datakoll aka gene daniels said:

Suggestions on best steel 29er (or cylcocross) frame for fireroad,
dirt road, gravel road, sand track, railroad roadbed touring? No
suspension except for the tires.

See <http://www.corriere.it/Media/Foto/2006/02_Febbraio/04/fdg/BICI.jpg>.

--

Isn't that Sheldon?

Maybe Didi Senft is Sheldon's long lost German cousin?

Just like Sheldon, Didi is riding a trike these days:
<http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/03/soccercycleR280306_450x310.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“the bacteria people tuned in-as to bioengineering at the correct wave
Point” - gene daniels

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

Hank Wirtz said:

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Suggestions on best steel 29er (or cylcocross) frame for fireroad,
> dirt road, gravel road, sand track, railroad roadbed touring? No
> suspension except for the tires.
See <http://www.corriere.it/Media/Foto/2006/02_Febbraio/04/fdg/BICI.jpg>.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--

Quoted message said:

Isn't that Sheldon?

Maybe Didi Senft is Sheldon's long lost German cousin?

Just like Sheldon, Didi is riding a trike these days:
<http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/03/soccercycleR280306_450x310.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the bacteria people tuned in-as to bioengineering at the correct wave
Point" - gene daniels

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

right! off Somalia. do we need a bumper sticker on DiDi?

In article <[email hidden]>,

datakoll said:

Suggestions on best steel 29er (or cylcocross) frame for fireroad,
dirt road, gravel road, sand track, railroad roadbed touring? No
suspension except for the tires.

Gunnar Crosshairs would probably be a good solution.

Quoted message said:

datakoll said:

Suggestions on best steel 29er (or cylcocross) frame for fireroad,
dirt road, gravel road, sand track, railroad roadbed touring? No
suspension except for the tires.

Tim McNamara said:

Gunnar Crosshairs would probably be a good solution.

Depends on preferred tire width, Gunnar Rock Hound 29 can go fatter.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

datakoll said:

Nate- what do have in mind with "aggressive geometry"?
sand, cinders, gravel: Conti and Michelin make tires around 2". 2''
should handle packed surfaces or wet surfaces but if not loose
surfaces.
the total idea is to ROLL along not fight the bike thru it as happpens
with a 700x32c eventually planting your head into the road surface.

29'ers and cyclocross bikes, in general, all have race-oriented
geometry with short chainstays, steep head- and seat- tube angles, and
high bottom brackets. They're oriented towards nimbleness, technical
handling, and generous ground clearance. For some definitions of off-
road touring, those characteristics are perfectly desirable - but for
others, the tradeoffs required to attain them might be a dealbreaker.
For example, carrying panniers on a lot of the bikes in question might
be tricky because of heel clearance issues, because of the short
chainstays. And the weight you carry as well as your own weight will
be higher off the ground, decreasing your stability, which is why true
touring bikes have low BB height.

datakoll said:

Nate- what do have in mind with "aggressive geometry"?
sand, cinders, gravel: Conti and Michelin make tires around 2". 2''
should handle packed surfaces or wet surfaces but if not loose
surfaces.
the total idea is to ROLL along not fight the bike thru it as happpens
with a 700x32c eventually planting your head into the road surface.

even 2.3's can't handle sand or loose rounded gravel - you need to go
with atv tires if that's your objective.

Gary Jacobson said:

A 29er refers to a mountain bike with a high BB. You want a touring bike
with capacity for fat tires I think.

BB height is dependent upon the tires. A touring bike with a 10.5" BB
height on 28mm tires becomes a 29er with an 11.5" BB when 54mm tires
are mounted (if they can be mounted). A 29" MTB on skinny tires
becomes a low-BB road bike with a tall front end.

BB drop is the measurement of interest for such comparisons.

Chalo

Nate Knutson said:

...whether you actually want the kind of
aggressive geometry that 9'ers and cross bikes all have....

As it so happens, my newest two frames are a touring bike and a 29er
MTB. I'll furnish some dimensions for you so you can discern for
yourself which one is more "aggressive":

Cannondale CAAD Touring frame, size Jumbo:
head angle 73
seat angle 72.5
chainstays 18.0"
top tube (effective) 23.5"
BB drop 2.6"
wheelbase 42.5"
trail 2.0"

Redline Monocog 29er, size 21"
head angle 72
seat angle 73
chainstays 17.5"
top tube 25.2"
BB drop 2.5" (extrapolated from 29" wheel)
wheelbase 44.5"
trail 3.2" (extrapolated from 29" wheel)

So which one has aggressive geometry?

Chalo

datakoll said:

Suggestions on best steel 29er (or cylcocross) frame for fireroad,
dirt road, gravel road, sand track, railroad roadbed touring? No
suspension except for the tires.

Surley, Gunnar

Chalo said:

Nate Knutson said:

...whether you actually want the kind of
aggressive geometry that 9'ers and cross bikes all have....

As it so happens, my newest two frames are a touring bike and a 29er
MTB. I'll furnish some dimensions for you so you can discern for
yourself which one is more "aggressive":

Cannondale CAAD Touring frame, size Jumbo:
head angle 73
seat angle 72.5
chainstays 18.0"
top tube (effective) 23.5"
BB drop 2.6"
wheelbase 42.5"
trail 2.0"

Redline Monocog 29er, size 21"
head angle 72
seat angle 73
chainstays 17.5"
top tube 25.2"
BB drop 2.5" (extrapolated from 29" wheel)
wheelbase 44.5"
trail 3.2" (extrapolated from 29" wheel)

So which one has aggressive geometry?

Chalo

Yes, I made a generalization, but for a touring bike, the Cannondale's
BB drop is small and the ht angle is steep.

"datakoll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Suggestions on best steel 29er (or cylcocross) frame for fireroad,
dirt road, gravel road, sand track, railroad roadbed touring? No
suspension except for the tires.

Gene -

I'm having good luck with the Nashbar Touring frame, but it is aluminum. Why
do you want a ferocious frame?

I use it for commuting and ride it under and over all sorts of things.
Railroad tracks, down stairs, dirt roads, sand drifts. I'm around 200 pounds
and tend to be hard on things and it's holding up well at several thousand
miles.

It's not too bad for a cheap Chinee thing. Scads of clearance all around;
I'm running 700X37s on it with fenders and there's room for more. Plenty of
room for a center stand. Three water bottle bosses, canti studs, rack attach
points front and rear. Watch for a sale and it can come pretty cheap.

Downsides are:

No "Wow" factor. It's just a frame and, egad, it comes from Nashbar.
Fork is on the heavy side. Silly set up for the lawyer lips. Awful,
actually.
Sizing is not really true - I have what they call a 60 and it is 60 to the
top of the seat tube, but to the top of the top tube it's more like a 56.
That's the biggest size they have.
Hope you like green, cuz that's the only color it comes in.

Pictures available on request.

Cheers,

Tom