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Difference in Aluminum types

Started by Jennifer Smith · · Last activity · 14 posts · 5,543 views

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Mountain Bikes
Published
2 February 2003
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6 February 2003
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Jennifer Smith
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  1. I got a question on the difference between Aluminum alloy types.

    What are the characteristics of Al 7075 and other types of Al?

    i.e. I currently have a handlebar made from Al 7075 & it flexes quite a bit. I have nightmares of
    coming down a rocky section of trail and having my Al 7075 bars breaking from the metal
    fatigue. Are there better alloys of Al that won't flex so much or am I just paranoid because my
    understanding of Al is that it doesn't flex to much & is prone to failure.

    Does any know of a good website explaining the different types of Al & their properties?

    Thanks.'

  2. "Jennifer Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I got a question on the difference between Aluminum alloy types.

    What are the characteristics of Al 7075 and other types of Al?

    i.e. I currently have a handlebar made from Al 7075 & it flexes quite a bit. I have nightmares of
    coming down a rocky section of trail and having my Al 7075 bars breaking from the metal
    fatigue. Are there better alloys of Al that won't flex so much or am I just paranoid because
    my understanding of Al is that it doesn't flex to much & is prone to failure.

    Does any know of a good website explaining the different types of Al & their properties?

    Thanks.'

    IMHO that's not going to give you the necessary info you're looking for. Two companies could use the
    same material, but one might make a flexy POS with the other making a super stiff one. Plus some
    companies are using are using proprietary material for their bars. Don't you just want to know who
    makes a good bar??

    My riding weight is bout 200 lbs and I'm using an
    cambriabike.comanswer protaper aluminum riser bar.htm for both XC & DH. It's a
    great bar....strong & stiff. There are others too.

    --
    Slacker

  3. Jennifer Smith:

    Quoted message said:

    I got a question on the difference between Aluminum alloy types.

    What are the characteristics of Al 7075 and other types of Al?

    metalsonline.comstep1.asp

    Quoted message said:

    i.e. I currently have a handlebar made from Al 7075 & it flexes quite a bit. I have nightmares of
    coming down a rocky section of trail and having my Al 7075 bars breaking from the metal
    fatigue. Are there better alloys of Al that won't flex so much or am I just paranoid because
    my understanding of Al is that it doesn't flex to much & is prone to failure.

    Essentially, flexing aluminium alloy structures is not ideal since Al's fatigue life is much shorter
    than steels and flexing tends to imply a high load. Also loads on Al alloy structures are cumulative
    in terms of fatigue life, whereas loads on steel structures have negligible effect on fatigue life
    when below a critical value, even when flex is present. Consider that most springs are made of
    steel, whereas Al springs are unheard of.

    If your handlebar's flexing is making you nervous, get one meant for downhill riding: these tend to
    be thicker (and heavier) and might flex a lot less.

    Quoted message said:

    Does any know of a good website explaining the different types of Al & their properties?

    See above.

  4. Jennifer Smith said:

    I got a question on the difference between Aluminum alloy types.

    What are the characteristics of Al 7075 and other types of Al?

    i.e. I currently have a handlebar made from Al 7075 & it flexes quite a bit. I have nightmares of
    coming down a rocky section of trail and having my Al 7075 bars breaking from the metal
    fatigue. Are there better alloys of Al that won't flex so much or am I just paranoid because
    my understanding of Al is that it doesn't flex to much & is prone to failure.

    In essence, you won't find any aluminum bars built with the same wall thickness that act much
    difference. To grossly oversimplify, all the aluminum alloys used in the bike business acts
    about the same.

    There is a tradeoff between increasing the ultimate shear strength and the ductility (the ability of
    the material to stretch without being permanently deformed, more or less). The two goals are
    normally at odds with each other - think of it in terms of a fine china plate on one end of the
    scale and a frisbee on the other... but with all the "normal alloys" being clumped near the center
    of the range.

    Quoted message said:

    Does any know of a good website explaining the different types of Al & their properties?

    There are a lot of them out there, but I doubt you'll find one that really digs deep enough to
    answer the specific question you're asking. In the end, design, material purity, and quality control
    are the things that will keep you out of trouble. The easy answer is to replace your bars every year
    with relatively heavy aluminum bars (kind of a brute force insurance policy). Stay away from
    ultra-light (aka stupid-lite) bars if you have a flex issue with your current bars.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

  5. Quoted message said:

    i.e. I currently have a handlebar made from Al 7075 & it flexes quite a


    bit.

    Quoted message said:

    I have nightmares of coming down a rocky section of trail and having my Al 7075 bars breaking from
    the metal fatigue. Are there better alloys of Al that won't flex so much or am I just paranoid
    because my understanding of


    Al

    Quoted message said:

    is that it doesn't flex to much & is prone to failure.

    Daaaaamn! That's one big woman!

    -John Morgan

  6. Mark says:

    Quoted message said:

    the ductility (the ability of the material to stretch without being permanently deformed, more
    or less).

    I'm going to bet that the Resident Metallurgist (UK branch) is willing to correct me if I'm wrong,
    but that quality is called elasticity, not ductility, IIRC

    Steve just don't ask me what "ductility" _is_ though....

  7. "Stephen Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    | Mark says:
    |
    | >the ductility (the ability of the material to stretch without being permanently deformed, more
    | >or less).
    |
    | I'm going to bet that the Resident Metallurgist (UK branch) is willing to correct me if I'm wrong,
    | but that quality is called elasticity, not
    ductility,
    | IIRC
    |
    | Steve just don't ask me what "ductility" _is_ though....

    Elastic deformation: nonpermanent deformation, totally recovered upon release of an applied stress.

    Ductility: A measure of a material's ability to undergo appreciable plastic deformation before
    fracture; it may be expressed as percent elongation or percent area reduction from a tensile test.

    In essence you are both correct but within varying parts of the original post. I believe the elastic
    deformation is what is happening within the bars and the ductility that Mark H was referring to was
    within the process of actually making them.

    Simon.....Paid semi attention at university :o)

  8. "Simon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Stephen Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    | Mark says:
    |
    | >the ductility (the ability of the material to stretch without being permanently deformed, more
    | >or less).
    |
    | I'm going to bet that the Resident Metallurgist (UK branch) is willing


    to

    Quoted message said:

    | correct me if I'm wrong, but that quality is called elasticity, not
    ductility,
    | IIRC


    <snip>

    Have a look at www.principalmetals.com which gives a very good explantion of the differing grades of
    aluminium and has an excellent glossary of terms...

    Zerohm

  9. Stephen Baker:

    Quoted message said:

    Mark says:

    Quoted message said:

    the ductility (the ability of the material to stretch without being permanently deformed, more
    or less).

    I'm going to bet that the Resident Metallurgist (UK branch) is willing to correct me if I'm wrong,
    but that quality is called elasticity, not ductility, IIRC

    Correct. Ductility is the ability to deform permanently. Amongst gold's valuable properties is its
    high ductility, easily deformed into any shape.

  10. "Simon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Stephen Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    | Mark says:
    |
    | >the ductility (the ability of the material to stretch without being permanently deformed, more
    | >or less).
    |
    | I'm going to bet that the Resident Metallurgist (UK branch) is willing


    to

    Quoted message said:

    | correct me if I'm wrong, but that quality is called elasticity, not
    ductility,
    | IIRC
    |
    | Steve just don't ask me what "ductility" _is_ though....

    Elastic deformation: nonpermanent deformation, totally recovered upon release of an
    applied stress.

    Ductility: A measure of a material's ability to undergo appreciable


    plastic

    Quoted message said:

    deformation before fracture; it may be expressed as percent elongation or percent area reduction
    from a tensile test.

    In essence you are both correct but within varying parts of the original post. I believe the
    elastic deformation is what is happening within the


    bars

    Quoted message said:

    and the ductility that Mark H was referring to was within the process of actually making them.

    Simon.....Paid semi attention at university :o)

    Just how many metallurgists are there around here?

    Andy Chequer

  11. Andy Chequer <bicycle.repair.man@(removethisbittosend)secretworldgovernment.org> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Simon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Stephen Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    | Mark says:
    |
    | >the ductility (the ability of the material to stretch without being permanently deformed,
    | >more or less).
    |
    | I'm going to bet that the Resident Metallurgist (UK branch) is willing


    to

    Quoted message said:

    | correct me if I'm wrong, but that quality is called elasticity, not
    ductility,
    | IIRC
    |
    | Steve just don't ask me what "ductility" _is_ though....

    Elastic deformation: nonpermanent deformation, totally recovered upon release of an applied
    stress.

    Ductility: A measure of a material's ability to undergo appreciable


    plastic

    Quoted message said:

    deformation before fracture; it may be expressed as percent elongation


    or

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    percent area reduction from a tensile test.

    In essence you are both correct but within varying parts of the original post. I believe the
    elastic deformation is what is happening within the


    bars

    Quoted message said:

    and the ductility that Mark H was referring to was within the process of actually making them.

    Simon.....Paid semi attention at university :o)

    Just how many metallurgists are there around here?

    Not enough.

    Shaun aRe - There is no such thing as 'too many metalurgists'. It's a fact.

  12. "Slacker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Jennifer Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    What are the characteristics of Al 7075 and other types of Al?

    i.e. I currently have a handlebar made from Al 7075 & it flexes quite a bit. I have nightmares
    of coming down a rocky section of trail and having my Al 7075 bars breaking from the metal
    fatigue. Are there better alloys of Al that won't flex so much or am I just paranoid
    because my understanding of Al is that it doesn't flex to much & is prone to failure.

    Does any know of a good website explaining the different types of Al & their properties?

    Thanks.'

    Quoted message said:


    My riding weight is bout 200 lbs and I'm using an
    cambriabike.comanswer protaper aluminum riser bar.htm for both XC & DH. It's a
    great bar....strong & stiff. There are others too.

    Or you could go steel: profileracing.comprofileracing.com /s

  13. Andy Chequer <bicycle.repair.man@(removethisbittosend)secretworldgovernment.org> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Stephen Baker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Just how many metallurgists are there around here?

    Andy Chequer

    <grasshopper> Only you, master! </grasshopper>

    ;-)

    I'm not sure wether that was wierder than aRe's post. I suspect that you


    are

    Quoted message said:

    both very strange.

    He makes an awkward but willing and ca[able apprentice - He actually brought me a bucket of steam,
    but spilt half of it on the way.

    Shaun aRe

  14. Quoted message said:

    Just how many metallurgists are there around here?

    Andy Chequer

    Umm, there's me, though I'm more of a chemical metallurgist (blast furnaces/smelting/phase diagrams)
    kinda guy. Keep my mouth almost shut on the physical metallurgy side of life. I am sort of a chronic
    lurker though.

    There's another metallurgist from Los Alamos in the rec.bicycling.* world. Dave K is a very
    knowlegable guy.

    Anyway -- it's all about design and manufacturing finnese, not materials in these low stress,
    undemanding operational environment machines we call bicycles.

    Mike Johnson Los Alamos, NM

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