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Diet

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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27 September 2007
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5 October 2007
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  1. Loco~Motion said:


    "Jackie Patti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Brevity snips

    Quoted message said:

    EVERYONE says you gain gobs of weight when you go on insulin, but I've
    been losing steadily since I started on it and I think it's mostly the
    business of writing all this stuff down and eating lots more fresh
    produce.

    What are you flavoring the produce with? You're not adding butter or
    oils are you? As much as I love veggies I do find the low-carb ones
    aren't filling and I'm soon hungry again.

    Depends on what it is. I dip artichokes in melted butter. I fry
    peppers, mushrooms and onions in butter and cook with eggs. I stirfry
    cabbages, peppers and beans with fresh ginger and garlic in lard. I
    simmer celery, carrots and snow peas in homemade broths (I make them
    very concentrated and do not skim the fat off). I make a salad
    dressing with greek yogurt, minced shallots, lime juice, olive oil, salt
    and freshly ground black pepper. That makes a good dip also if you want
    to munch on sliced cucumbers. Cukes are also good just marinated in a
    mixture of water, vinegar and stevia. I often top salads with some
    shredded cheese or chopped nuts or sunflower seeds. Or I have tuna
    salad or chicken salad or taco meat on top of a salad. I use chives,
    parsley and basil particularly a lot, but a whole lot of different herbs
    and spices really.

    What do you like? Google this group for the word REC and you'll find
    gobs of recipes.

    --
    http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

  2. "Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    I guess I was so successful low-carbing and walking I didn't keep up with
    all the changes in terminology.

    It's not a change in terminology; it's right there in the first, oldest
    Atkins book. What I get from your responses is that you have gotten
    together a hodge-podge of ideas from several books, but you aren't
    following any of their plans. You are trying to pick and choose from their
    ideas as if it were a menu. Atkins has a plan, and it's not just "low carb
    eating."

    I have his "New Diet Revolution" book. Allow me to repeat that I was losing
    1 to 2 lbs a week when I was exercising therefore I was doing something
    right by omitting almost all refined carbs from my diet and walking. When I
    started I did the all-meat thing for the 1st 2 weeks, then started to add
    the veggies and nuts.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Now, you're saying "I won't do any exercise unless it really burns the
    calories." That's called looking for a short cut.

    No, it's called lack of time to lift weights 4 hours a day to burn a 100
    calories. I have too much on my plate already.

    Quoted message said:

    You don't seem to understand that exercise will change your body a little
    at a time. For example, if you lift dumbbells, say, while watching TV in
    the evening, it will increase your muscle mass. More muscle mass means the
    calories you eat are used more efficiently and burned father. You can sit
    on one of those Swiss balls and do exercises while watching TV. Your core
    muscles will get stronger and you will burn more calories with less
    effort.

    I can't believe all you low-carbers are also lifting weights and using balls
    to lose weight. My Dr said walking was one of the best exercises a person
    can do to lose weight and help the cardio vascular system. I really don't
    have the money to but weights and balls with the medical bills we're now
    faced with.

    Quoted message said:

    Nobody said anything about exercising 4 hours a day. Let me ask you this:
    is what you are presently doing working or have you gained 10 pounds?

    So you can guarantee if I can find the ball and weights somewhere cheap I'll
    lose weight?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I have a household to run and a lot to take care of. I don't unlimited
    time on my hands.

    Quoted message said:

    Nobody has an unlimited time on their hands, but it's you who wrote in and
    asked how to get rid of the 10 pounds you gained since your accident. You
    are not using the time you do have in an efficient way, that's all. You
    seem to want weight loss fast or not at all---or even weight gain is
    preferable to taking smaller steps in losing weight.

    See above. I have too many medical bills to pay to go out and buy weights
    and some kind of balls.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Exercise builds muscle, which uses more calories in lighter exercise. It
    builds your heart and it builds your lungs. I have read that even Yoga
    helps people lose weight. Even just stretching can have an effect upon
    your weight.

    By 1 to 2 lbs a week?

    So, it's all or nothing? You would turn down 1/2 pound a week. You'd
    rather gain weight if you can't lose 1 to 2 pounds a week?

    Are you guaranteeing that people lose weight lifting weights? The lady
    trainer at the YMCA told me weight lifting is for toning, not weight loss.
    She said the energy burnt by the few lbs of muscle you put on is negligible
    and recommended I see a Dietitian or find some way to do calorie burning
    exercise for weight loss.

    Quoted message said:

    No, it will work, and the exercise doesn't have to be long-time treadmill
    use. It can be other exercises, even those you turn down because the
    weight loss is a bit slower.

    Please see above. She also told me women my age don't tend to gain the
    muscle the young person would.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I already told you I read his book, plus two others.

    Quoted message said:

    You may have "read" the book, but you missed several key ingredients. You
    have been looking at those books as menus to pick and choose from. That is
    where you are going off on a tangent. You aren't following any plan at
    all. You are making it up as you go along.

    Making what up? I was losing up to 2 lbs a week!!!

    Quoted message said:


    Pat in TX

  3. "Jackie Patti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Loco~Motion said:

    No, it's called lack of time to lift weights 4 hours a day to burn a 100
    calories. I have too much on my plate already.

    You're looking at exercise wrong. Building muscle means you have more
    lean body mass... which raises your basal metabolism and you're burning
    more calories all the time, even when you're asleep.

    Yes, I had heard of this already and spoke to a trainer at the YMCA. See my
    other post.

    Quoted message said:

    Very small changes DO make a difference. My husband gained 5 lbs a year
    for ten years and recently decided it was too much. 5 lbs a year is a
    VERY slow gain, he was just slightly overeating to gain that. Just he did
    it for too long and eventually got fat. All he changed to start losing
    was quit the outright junk food like cakes and chips. He's losing a lb or
    so a week from that minor change. He still eats bread and pasta and puts
    sugar in his coffee, he's not near low-carbing - all he did was
    drastically cut the outright junk food. It was a pretty minor change he
    made.

    I believe it. I don't eat junk food. I never did even as a child. When I
    hit menopause and my thyroid quit at the same time weight really became a
    problem. I was 125 lbs when I went into menopause and 210 lbs about 2 1/2
    yrs. later, when I finally went to a specialist. I was getting no help from
    my regular Dr at the time. He never suspected a thyroid problem. I was
    diagnosed as hyporthyroid by the second Dr., put on Synthroid and encouraged
    to get as much exercise as possible and to find a diet I could live with.
    Once on the medication I felt much better but the weight remained. It's
    been a struggle to get it off ever since.

    Quoted message said:

    The exact point where you neither gain nor lose is a tricky balance. Small
    changes in one direction or the other is what makes the difference between
    gaining and losing. You don't have to overeat a LOT to gain weight, nor
    undereat a LOT to lose weight.

    I'm obviously eating too much of something because the gain is rapid since I
    stopped walking. I would have been happy to maintain the 154 until I could
    start walking again, but that didn't happen as you can see.

    Quoted message said:

    Not being able to exercise doesn't just mean you aren't currently burning
    a few hundred calories when you actively exercise. It means you aren't
    burning a few hundred extra calories around the clock, day after day, week
    after week. So unless you cut back your eating a few hundred calories to
    compensate, you're not gonna lose.

    That's where I misunderstood the books. I thought calories didn't count when
    low-carbing. All those "sumptuous" meals Atkins kept mentioning. So now
    I'll have to start counting calories as well as low-carb. I had to skip
    calorie counting today as we finished the Eggplant Parm' and I am clueless
    as to how many calories that has, or what's considered a serving. So I'll
    start the counting tomorrow. I'm going to call the specialist and see if I
    can find out when I can start walking on the treadmill again.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I have a household to run and a lot to take care of. I don't unlimited
    time on my hands.

    I completly understand that. And it's up to you to set priorities for
    your life.

    If weight loss is important, you need to increase exercise or reduce
    calories. Your choice.

    Low calorie diets are so hard to stick to whereas the low-carb diet isn't
    bad at all. I seldom feel hungry. I remember trying low-calorie dieting
    before I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I was starving all the time,
    irritable, tired, obsessed with food, and just plain [censored]...... 🙁

    Quoted message said:


    --
    http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

  4. "Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Loco~Motion said:

    I'm low-carbing, not following the Atkins plan which from what I read
    is rather extreme.

    Many of us have designed our own low-carb eating plans by combining
    concepts from Atkins, Protein Power, and others; and there's not
    necessarily anything wrong with that. But if you gain ten pounds, you
    might have to take a break from the Loco~Motion Low Carb Plan, whatever
    that involves, and stick to one of the tried-and-true ones for a while.

    Yes, I'm definitely considering that. I'm looking into the Slimfast plan. I
    know several acquaintances who lose weight eating frozen diet dinners and
    drinking Slimfast which they claim tastes OK. Everything is already
    measured so it's easy, they said, to stick to it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    No swimming where I live. I'm not sure about aerobics. The accident
    precludes things like riding bikes. The exercises you suggest don't
    burn many calories unless done for hours at a time. They're more
    fitness oriented, not weight loss. Walking uphill at full speed on a
    treadmill really burns the calories.

    Quoted message said:

    If you want a hard workout, check out the exercises at Body by Fish:
    <http://www.trainforstrength.com/exercises.shtml> He sells tapes, but
    has full descriptions and pictures of the exercises for free on the web
    site. Most of them take no equipment, and they *will* kick your ass.
    Some of them look like they'd be doable with a leg brace.

    The brace/walking boot is finally off, thank God! There was no atrophy due
    to the walking boot which allowed me to put weight on it and hobble around.
    I am definitely going to check out that site. Thanks. :-)

    Quoted message said:

    --
    Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

  5. "Jackie Patti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Loco~Motion wrote:

    (brevity snips)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    We have a garden so I also eat a lot of low carb veggies daily. Mostly
    greens which I love. I add a little olive oil or bacon grease to them,
    salt and pepper. But I also eat a lot of string beans, broccoli,
    cauliflower and wax beans. All very low carb. I just looked for my
    carb-counter book and cannot find it. 🙁

    I envy you. I had HUNDREDS of seedlings cuase I was going to have my
    kewlest garden ever... and they all died while I was in the hospital.

    May I ask what your surgery was for? Was it weight related? There was a
    serious drought across parts of the US and many gardens died. We did lose
    part of one garden, our string beans, and had to start watering or we would
    have lost it all. I have plenty of Swiss chard and Collards still producing.

    Quoted message said:

    So I have the saddest garden in the world this year - there is an actual
    TREE growing in the middle of my strawberry patch!

    Oh what a bummer....... 🙁

    Quoted message said:

    --
    http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

  6. "Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Loco~Motion said:

    Well in my case the exercise was working wonders! One month I lost
    almost 11 lbs. So there was definitely a connection between the
    walking and the weight loss.

    A connection, perhaps, but probably not the causation you're assuming.
    As Gary Taubes recently discovered when he tried to find the research
    behind that belief <http://nymag.com/news/sports/38001/>, no one's ever
    been able to show that exercise causes weight loss, and it hasn't been
    for lack of trying.

    How can it not cause weight loss when it take "energy" to MOVE yourself?
    That makes no sense to me. ?!?!?!?!

    (I thought it was fascinating that no one believed

    Quoted message said:

    that before about 1970, yet today it's a truism. I'd also never thought
    about the implications of the phrase "work up an appetite" before.
    Hmm.)

    In my case as long as I was walking I was losing weight. I was shocked to
    see I had gained so much when I could no longer walk the treadmill.

    Quoted message said:

    It's at least as likely that your low-carb diet caused you to burn fat,
    which gave you more energy, which caused you to want to get out and walk
    it off. Now that you can't find ways to expend the energy (and it
    sounds like you still want to), it's getting stored again. It's a very
    different way of looking at it, that takes some getting used to.

    But it's not supposed to be stored on a low-carb diet.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Atkins recommends drinking oil when you hit a plateau. It's supposed
    to get you started again.

    Quoted message said:

    He doesn't say why or how much or what other changes to make?

    Oh yes! Meat fasts. Nothing but meat for something like a week. Kind of
    like induction. It caused severe constipation and nausea though unless I
    had the 1/2 cup of FiberOne at night... and that of course has some carbs.

    I haven't

    Quoted message said:

    read any Atkins books all the way through, but that seems odd. You seem
    to be picking up little bits of Atkins here and there without all the
    context.

    It was some time ago that I read the book, then read the other 2 books.

    Quoted message said:


    If he recommends that, I'd assume it's as part of a fat fast,

    YES! A fat fast, like a meat fast.

    not just

    Quoted message said:

    in the sense of adding fat calories to what you're already eating. But
    again, I haven't read it; I think I'd want to read it and understand the
    point before I started sipping oil.

    It's a fat fast that is supposed to be very effective - if you can take
    sipping oil and not get nauseous. I was never on a greasy oily diet so
    sipping oil was...... well, made me gag.

    BTW, when menopause and hypothyroidism hit together, the weight went on not
    with junk food but with rice, potatoes, corn, dry beans, peas, pasta and
    other otherwise nourishing foods. I was never over 125 lbs my entire adult
    life.

    Quoted message said:

    --
    Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

  7. "Jackie Patti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Loco~Motion said:

    All my life I was thin until I developed hypothyroidism at menopause.....
    then the weight piled on in only a few years. I always had only 2 meals
    a day plus a late evening snack of nuts or fruit. I was never a junk food
    eater and I believe that's why I am in excellent health at 63 while some
    of my friends have already passed away.

    Well, this is new info. Do your thyroid meds need to be adjusted? Seems
    to me like a question worth asking.

    I don't know if they need adjustment but I have an appointment at the clinic
    this Wednesday to have a blood test for my thyroid. They do the test every 6
    months. :-) I'll find out within a week if it needs adjustment.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If you eat mostly veggies by volume, you won't be able to eat piles of
    calories. A whole head of butterhead has around 20 calories - that's a
    heck of a lot of salad. A whole napa cabbage has 160 calories - and
    that's two *huge* servings of stirfry. You are never gonna gain weight
    eating mostly nonstarchy veggies.

    That's what they say yet I gained another lb and had eggplant parmesan
    and nuts yesterday. Did I gain on the cheese? The glass of milk? It's
    the first cheese I've had in weeks.

    Quoted message said:

    You have no idea what you gained on yesterday. You can't know what you
    gain or lose in a day. You can be holding water one day vs. another, you
    can simply have more food in your GI tract one day vs. another. Best you
    can know is week-to-week because digestion just isn't that fast.

    Well something is wrong because this morning I was 169. How in God's name
    can my weight be going up so fast? My jeans were very hard to zipper up
    this morning. :*(

    Quoted message said:


    BTW, you know milk is pretty carby, right?

    Yes, 13g a cup.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    OK gotcha. I seem to eat more meat than you are at dinner. I love
    veggies but find they are not filling. I'm hungry in an hour or two. So
    I eat a lot of meat and fish with my meals.

    No, they're not filling by themselves. I'm not a vegetarian though, I eat
    protein, usually animal protein, at every meal. And plenty of fat as
    well. While I push for the largest mass of my food to be from veggies,
    the largest percentage of my calories is from fat, which is very
    satiating.

    Yes. This is why I add butter or olive oil or occasionally bacon grease to
    the veggies.

    Quoted message said:

    I had a chicken breast for dinner last night (and it was not one of those
    "diet" skinless breasts), the artichoke was dipped in butter and then I
    had a kiwi for dessert.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I hate to give up the nuts because that leaves me with nothing but meat
    and low-carb veggies. I never dreamed I'd be up another pound because of
    the cheese on the eggplant but that has to be it. :*( I just didn't
    feel like meat again yesterday and we had the eggplant. I'm starting to
    crave something filling other than meat.

    Quoted message said:

    Don't give them up - just figure out how much is a reasonable portion.
    Nuts are a very good, healthy food.

    I have 2 oz as a evening snack.

    Quoted message said:

    I'm very likely to sprinkle a few TB of chopped pecans on a salad. I just
    can't sit down with a jar of pecan butter and a spoon cause there'd be no
    stopping at a few TB.

    Pecan butter? Is that like peanut butter?

    Quoted message said:


    --
    http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

  8. Loco~Motion said:

    Are you guaranteeing that people lose weight lifting weights? The lady
    trainer at the YMCA told me weight lifting is for toning, not weight
    loss. She said the energy burnt by the few lbs of muscle you put on is
    negligible and recommended I see a Dietitian or find some way to do
    calorie burning exercise for weight loss.


    <snip>

    Quoted message said:


    Please see above. She also told me women my age don't tend to gain the
    muscle the young person would.

    At a personal trainer at a a YMCA I find it hard to believe
    that another trainer would say the above. It goes against
    even the most basic training knowledge and against the
    training certification the YMCA provides its trainers.

    1) Trainers don't use the word "toning". The popular press
    use that that word to mean seeing muscle definition on
    someone with a low bodyfat percentage. Muscle tone
    technically is the unconscious nerve impulses that maintain
    a partially contracted state. People with hypertonicity
    (Parkinsons for example) have problems with muscle tone.

    2) Even small amounts of added muscle mass can aid bodyfat
    loss -- why would a trainer tell you turn your back on that
    fact.

    3) Young people usually gain and keep muscle mass due to
    their hormone levels. As people age they increasing need to
    work toward just *keeping* their muscle mass, let alone
    adding mass. Additionally women need to strength train as
    they age to maintain bone density. Its shocking that a
    trainer (a female one at that) would not be informed about
    this simple fact. In fact your doctor should have told you
    to strength train for your bone density. (I haven't been
    reading all of your post, but seem to remember you have a
    leg problem -- is it a broken leg? You may want to have ask
    for bone density test.)

    In all, the person you spoke with needs to be educated and
    possibly re-certified.

    --
    Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

    "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
    -Emiliano Zapata

    Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:
    http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

  9. Loco~Motion said:

    I can't believe all you low-carbers are also lifting weights and using balls
    to lose weight. My Dr said walking was one of the best exercises a person
    can do to lose weight and help the cardio vascular system. I really don't
    have the money to but weights and balls with the medical bills we're now
    faced with.

    To actually do Atkins, you must exercise. You can see the chapter
    entitled "Exercise, it's non-negotiable." Meanwhile, back in the real
    world, not every LC adherent exercises. But a lot of them do.

    I got my Swiss Ball for maybe $15 bucks. It came with a DVD I've
    never looked at. My current cube is too small, but I put up with a
    year's worth of jokes ("You're really on the ball!" "It takes balls to
    sit on that"😉 at work and maybe it helped. I dunno. I got it to work
    on my posture. It helped with that. I'm now regressing in my knock-off
    Herman Miller chair.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    So you can guarantee if I can find the ball and weights somewhere cheap I'll
    lose weight?

    No. If you find them somewhere cheap, it doesn't imply purchase.
    Further,
    purchase doesn't imply regular use. Lastly, regular use doesn't imply
    useful activity.

    Given purchase (look for a "Play it Again" franchise near you. You
    don't
    need new weights. A good swiss ball should be <$20, brand new. They
    sell them at Borders, Target, probably Wal*Mart, and lots of other
    places.)
    Given purchase, regular, useful activity with these, I still cannot
    guarantee
    a moving scale. Muscle is heavier than fat. If you are diligent, you
    will move
    the tape measure and the bodyfat percentage. Maybe the scale as well,
    but
    I can't guarantee that.

    That said, you can do wonders with bodyweight. And all that requires
    is a
    body. Last I checked, you are free to use your own body for less than
    even
    the cheapest dumbbells.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    See above. I have too many medical bills to pay to go out and buy weights
    and some kind of balls.

    Again, get down with the bodyweight exercises. Prisoner squats,
    pushups,
    etc. Use your own home gym, the one you were born with.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Are you guaranteeing that people lose weight lifting weights? The lady
    trainer at the YMCA told me weight lifting is for toning, not weight loss.
    She said the energy burnt by the few lbs of muscle you put on is negligible
    and recommended I see a Dietitian or find some way to do calorie burning
    exercise for weight loss.

    This question is meant with the best intentions.
    "Is it more important to move the scale or the mirror?"
    For me, the mirror is #1, the scale is a way to measure progress in
    the mirror.
    And in overall health. Resistance exercise, Interval Training and
    controlled
    carb dieting are the way to move the mirror. The scale will move with
    it, but
    the three create a synergy that will move the fat off your body and
    replace it
    with lean muscle. Not steroid muscles. But toned, lean muscle.

    Your trainer is part right. Lifting little light weighs is for toning.
    The energy burnt
    by extra ounces of muscle is small (it's real, but it's small). You
    should NOT
    see a dietician. They are mostly trained with information that is 20
    years out of
    date and it wasn't particuarly solid twenty years ago. You should go
    back to
    reread protein power. And find someway to incorporate LC dieting and
    resistance
    exercises. That's the key.


  10. Quoted message said:


    I have his "New Diet Revolution" book. Allow me to repeat that I was
    losing 1 to 2 lbs a week when I was exercising therefore I was doing
    something right by omitting almost all refined carbs from my diet and
    walking. When I started I did the all-meat thing for the 1st 2 weeks,
    then started to add the veggies and nuts.

    You are living in the past. You are NOW injured, right? Your thinking needs
    to adapt to this new reality. If you want to be successful with your new
    reality, you are going to have to alter some aspects.

    Quoted message said:

    I can't believe all you low-carbers are also lifting weights and using
    balls to lose weight. My Dr said walking was one of the best exercises a
    person can do to lose weight and help the cardio vascular system. I
    really don't have the money to but weights and balls with the medical
    bills we're now faced with.

    Well, we are. And it's not just to lose weight. It's to build a better, more
    fitter body. Walking is excellent, but you can't walk, right? So, you need
    to temporarily change to something you CAN do. And, BTW, those dumbbells
    don't cost so much. You can get a 5# dumbbell for about $4. You can go to
    the Second Hand Sports store and get the basic dumbbells for really cheap.
    The balls? Around $24. Don't want to spend money on a pair of $10 dumbells?
    Use cans of food. Lift a gallon of milk. There are things around your house
    that you can use.

    Nobody said anything about exercising 4 hours a day. Let me ask you this:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    is what you are presently doing working or have you gained 10 pounds?

    So you can guarantee if I can find the ball and weights somewhere cheap
    I'll lose weight?

    So, you are saying that unless you get a "guarantee" you won't do anything
    at all but----gain weight?

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Exercise builds muscle, which uses more calories in lighter exercise.
    > It builds your heart and it builds your lungs. I have read that even
    > Yoga helps people lose weight. Even just stretching can have an effect
    > upon your weight.

    By 1 to 2 lbs a week?

    So, it's all or nothing? You would turn down 1/2 pound a week. You'd
    rather gain weight if you can't lose 1 to 2 pounds a week?

    Are you guaranteeing that people lose weight lifting weights? The lady
    trainer at the YMCA told me weight lifting is for toning, not weight loss.
    She said the energy burnt by the few lbs of muscle you put on is
    negligible and recommended I see a Dietitian or find some way to do
    calorie burning exercise for weight loss.

    If you belong to the UMCA, use THEIR weights. Sheesh! You can afford to join
    a health club but can't afford some cheapo dumbbells? It is sounding as if
    you just want to complain, but not actually take any action.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I already told you I read his book, plus two others.

    Quoted message said:

    You may have "read" the book, but you missed several key ingredients. You
    have been looking at those books as menus to pick and choose from. That
    is where you are going off on a tangent. You aren't following any plan at
    all. You are making it up as you go along.

    Making what up? I was losing up to 2 lbs a week!!!

    Would you quit living in the past? You WERE......look at today and where you
    are, right now. You wrote that you were gaining weight. You won't lose any
    by repeating "I was losing up to 2 lbs a week!" Talking doesn't use THAT
    many calories.

    Pat in TX

  11. Loco~Motion said:
    Pat said:
    Quoted message said:

    I guess I was so successful low-carbing and walking I didn't keep up with
    all the changes in terminology.

    Quoted message said:

    It's not a change in terminology; it's right there in the first, oldest
    Atkins book. What I get from your responses is that you have gotten
    together a hodge-podge of ideas from several books, but you aren't
    following any of their plans. You are trying to pick and choose from their
    ideas as if it were a menu. Atkins has a plan, and it's not just "low carb
    eating."

    I have his "New Diet Revolution" book.

    Having the book and claiming to have read it is not the same thing
    as understanding any of the content. Consider that you claim that
    the fat fast consists of drinking oil, which is completely false. The
    fat fast is 1000 calories at 90% fat and he suggests recipes like
    cream cheese mixed with fish roe to acheive those numbers with
    food that tastes good.

    Quoted message said:

    ... When I
    started I did the all-meat thing for the 1st 2 weeks, then started to add
    the veggies and nuts.

    That doesn't even slightly resemble the directions in the book.
    Yet another indication that the way you read the book did not
    lead to understanding the content.

    Quoted message said:

    Making what up? I was losing up to 2 lbs a week!!!

    This is a point with some interesting implications.

    The rate of loss is proportional to the amount a person has to lose,
    but you were losing at 2 pounds per week for several months in a
    row. Most of the people who lose at that rate still have 100+ pounds
    to lose. Do you recall mention of "suseptibility" in the book? Your
    loss rate of 2 pounds per week suggests that you have an extremely
    high suseptibility to lose by low carb. That might sound like good
    news, but it also means that you also have an extremely high
    suseptibility to regain by even slightly going off plan.

    Atkins is not and never was about eating a lot of food and being
    able to lose like magic. No matter that you actually did lose like
    magic for a while. Atkins is about right-sizing carb intake to
    trigger
    ketosis and using the appetite suppression of ketosis to be able to
    adjust your portion sizes without hunger.

    Now that you know of your suseptibility you know you will be able
    to resume loss by getting back into ketosis (you have not mentioned
    if you are still in ketosis and ketosis is the keystone of the 2
    weight
    loss phases of the process) and reducing your portions carefully.
    Don't wildly reduce your portions in half, just taper them down a bit
    at a time.

    But having discovered your suseptibility you also know just how
    easy it will be to regain should you ever go off-plan. You had no
    idea what the plan actually is and you drifted enough to trigger
    regain, so your danger of regain by going off-plan is extremely high.

    Having high suseptibility like that is a double edged sword - It can
    trigger loss at a rate that seems so magical it seems like you don't
    even need to know what the process really is to be able to lose with
    it. And it can also trigger rapid regain when you have reached a
    level
    anywhere near your ideal weight. Easy loss makes for over confidence.
    Over confidence makes for very tough maintenance. That's a stuation
    I know far too well. I lost over 1 pound per week for a while ending
    up at 40 down in 52 weeks and near 10 pounds from my ideal weight.
    But the ease of that loss also led me to lose interest in following
    what
    the directions really said and I had a tough second year and I have
    struggled with maintenance ever since.

    So read the book again. Get that Induction is about entering ketosis.
    Get that OWL is about being just barely in ketosis to trigger loss by
    using the appetite suppression to make it painless to carefully
    adjust your portion sizes as the "metabolic advantage" drops as you
    have less and less to lose. Get that pre-maint and maintenance are
    deliberately out of ketosis but that they are also sufficiently low
    carb
    that the cravings are not turned on. Get that the carb ladder is
    about
    discovering previously unknown food intolerances and that it is used
    to discover foods you should avoid no matter what their carb count.
    Then use that knowledge to get back on the plan and lose. But
    know how easy it is going to be to regain based on how easy it was
    to lose. Double edged sword ...

  12. I'm having a JC moment...

    Loco~Motion said:

    I have his "New Diet Revolution" book. Allow me to repeat that I was
    losing 1 to 2 lbs a week when I was exercising therefore I was doing
    something right by omitting almost all refined carbs from my diet and
    walking. When I started I did the all-meat thing for the 1st 2 weeks,
    then started to add the veggies and nuts.

    Nothing wrong with what you were doing, but it's not the Atkins program.

    Several people have suggested that you follow or at least read Atkins.
    It's pretty clear you have no idea what his program is. "Omitting almost
    all refined carbs" is not Atkins neither is an "all-meat thing." While
    I''ve really never done Atkins myself, but I can't see how anyone can
    come away from his book and say stuff that they can't do Atkins cause
    they're not into "sipping oil". None of this has anything to do with
    anything Atkins said.

    It has been suggested repeatedly that you read his book and you have
    posted several times saying that you have. I can therefore only
    conclude that your reading comprehension is very poor. So spending a
    lot of time typing up answers to your questions seems rather a waste of
    my time.

    --
    http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

  13. Loco~Motion said:

    Low calorie diets are so hard to stick to whereas the low-carb diet
    isn't bad at all. I seldom feel hungry. I remember trying low-calorie
    dieting before I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I was starving all
    the time, irritable, tired, obsessed with food, and just plain
    [censored]...... 🙁

    I just want to make it clear to anyone else reading this thread now or
    archived in the future... I never recommended a low-calorie diet to this
    person.

    --
    http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

  14. Loco~Motion said:

    It's a fat fast that is supposed to be very effective - if you can take
    sipping oil and not get nauseous. I was never on a greasy oily diet so
    sipping oil was...... well, made me gag.

    Atkins never said this. He recommended a fat fast for those who do
    induction without getting into ketosis, not for breaking stalls. Nor do
    I recall anything about drinking oil from his books, rather stuff about
    macadamia nuts and cream cheese.

    --
    http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

  15. RRzVRR said:
    Loco~Motion said:

    The
    lady trainer at the YMCA told me weight lifting is for toning, not
    weight loss.

    Quoted message said:

    In all, the person you spoke with needs to be educated and possibly
    re-certified.

    Probably not. Loco~Motion has misunderstood Atkins and the other
    posters in this thread, so likely misunderstood the Y trainer.

    --
    http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

  16. Jackie Patti said:
    Loco~Motion said:

    It's a fat fast that is supposed to be very effective - if you can take
    sipping oil and not get nauseous. I was never on a greasy oily diet so
    sipping oil was...... well, made me gag.

    Atkins never said this. He recommended a fat fast for those who do
    induction without getting into ketosis, not for breaking stalls.

    While the fat fast is officially only for those with CCLLs under 20
    and thus technically an abuse if you use it as a stall buster, it
    does work as a stall buster a lot of the time. It is vastly over used
    as a stall buster because it is the most extreme action listed in
    the book and folks seem drawn to extreme action I think.

    Quoted message said:

    Nor do
    I recall anything about drinking oil from his books, rather stuff about
    macadamia nuts and cream cheese.

    You don't recall it form the books because it is not in the books.

  17. x-no-archive: yes

    Doug Freyburger said:
    Jackie Patti said:
    Loco~Motion said:

    It's a fat fast that is supposed to be very effective - if you can take
    sipping oil and not get nauseous. I was never on a greasy oily diet so
    sipping oil was...... well, made me gag.

    Atkins never said this. He recommended a fat fast for those who do
    induction without getting into ketosis, not for breaking stalls.

    While the fat fast is officially only for those with CCLLs under 20
    and thus technically an abuse if you use it as a stall buster, it
    does work as a stall buster a lot of the time. It is vastly over used
    as a stall buster because it is the most extreme action listed in
    the book and folks seem drawn to extreme action I think.

    Quoted message said:

    Nor do
    I recall anything about drinking oil from his books, rather stuff about
    macadamia nuts and cream cheese.

    You don't recall it form the books because it is not in the books.

    The only place I recall the advice to "sip" or "drink" oil was here, by
    that guy Lee who used to post a lot.

    Susan

  18. Susan wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    x-no-archive: yes

    Doug Freyburger said:
    Jackie Patti said:

    Loco~Motion wrote:

    >It's a fat fast that is supposed to be very effective - if you can


    take

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >sipping oil and not get nauseous. I was never on a greasy oily


    diet so

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >sipping oil was...... well, made me gag.

    Atkins never said this. He recommended a fat fast for those who do
    induction without getting into ketosis, not for breaking stalls.

    While the fat fast is officially only for those with CCLLs under 20
    and thus technically an abuse if you use it as a stall buster, it
    does work as a stall buster a lot of the time. It is vastly over


    used

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    as a stall buster because it is the most extreme action listed in
    the book and folks seem drawn to extreme action I think.

    Quoted message said:

    Nor do
    I recall anything about drinking oil from his books, rather stuff


    about

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    macadamia nuts and cream cheese.

    You don't recall it form the books because it is not in the books.

    The only place I recall the advice to "sip" or "drink" oil was here,


    by

    Quoted message said:

    that guy Lee who used to post a lot.

    Susan

    I don't recall ever seeing it in an actual book either, though you're
    right, Lee Rogers did advocate sipping oil along with eating
    cruciferous veggies as part of LCing. I don't want to sip oil myself.
    :-)

    Cheri

  19. I can eat nice thin slices of cold butter, though, with great pleasure,
    particularly if it is very good butter.

    Cheri wrote:
    |
    | I don't recall ever seeing it in an actual book either, though you're
    | right, Lee Rogers did advocate sipping oil along with eating
    | cruciferous veggies as part of LCing. I don't want to sip oil myself.
    | :-)
    |
    | Cheri

  20. FOB wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:

    I can eat nice thin slices of cold butter, though, with great


    pleasure,

    Quoted message said:

    particularly if it is very good butter.

    Cheri wrote:
    |
    | I don't recall ever seeing it in an actual book either, though


    you're

    Quoted message said:

    | right, Lee Rogers did advocate sipping oil along with eating
    | cruciferous veggies as part of LCing. I don't want to sip oil


    myself.

    Quoted message said:

    | :-)
    |
    | Cheri

    Oh yeah, total agreement there. :-)

    Cheri

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