did topolino really re-invent the wheel?

In article <IXj6c.34699$Cb.555013@attbi_s51>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Has anybody purchased/ridden the topolino wheels. They
sound pretty cool as they "bend" the spoke through the hub.
How are they?

Wait a couple of years and see how many of these wheels are
still around. Do you remember fiber flight spokes?
----------------
Alex

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Oveto
Has anybody purchased/ridden the topolino wheels. They
sound pretty cool as they "bend" the spoke through the hub.
How are they?

I think it is a bad idea.
Even the best designs have some failures. Replacement parts would be the first reason I wouldn't bother. The second reason is they are solving a problem where a problem doesn't exist.

Quoted message said:

The second reason is they are solving a problem where a
problem doesn't exist.

People used to say that about indexed shifting & dual-pivot
brakes as well (and some still do). Just because something
works doesn't mean there isn't a better way to do it,
although I'm not passing judgement on the merits of the
wheel in question, but the philosophy (why improve things
that already work just fine) itself.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"daveornee" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Oveto said:

Has anybody purchased/ridden the topolino wheels. They
sound pretty

cool

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as they "bend" the spoke through the hub. How are
they?

I think it is a bad idea. Even the best designs have some
failures. Replacement parts would be the first reason I
wouldn't bother. The second reason is they are solving a
problem where a problem doesn't exist.

--

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike Jacoubowsk
[B]> The second reason is they are solving a problem where a

Quoted message said:

problem doesn't exist.

Quoted message said:

Oveto said:

Has anybody purchased/ridden the topolino wheels. They
sound pretty

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as they "bend" the spoke through the hub. How are
they?

I think it is a bad idea. Even the best designs have some
failures. Replacement parts would be the first reason I
wouldn't bother. The second reason is they are solving a
problem where a problem doesn't exist.

-- [/B]

I have a set of Topolinos. My first wheel had problems, and
Topolino not only replaced the wheel, they even paid for the
shipping. They've stood behind their product 100%.

As far as the ride quality: there is nothing finer. The
Carbon/Kevlar spokes absorb road vibration magnificently.
They are relatively light (1400 grams a pair), but the
reason to ride these babies is for the quality of ride. Its
like they have repaved the road under you, yet these wheels
are laterally stiff.

--

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"oveto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:IXj6c.34699$Cb.555013@attbi_s51...

Quoted message said:

Has anybody purchased/ridden the topolino wheels. They
sound pretty cool

as

Quoted message said:

they "bend" the spoke through the hub. How are they?

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This sounds like harlen mayer's siameese spokes. Hi-E was up
for sale but I dont know if the business still exists.

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <IXj6c.34699$Cb.555013@attbi_s51>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Has anybody purchased/ridden the topolino wheels. They
sound pretty cool as they "bend" the spoke through the
hub. How are they?

Wait a couple of years and see how many of these wheels
are still around. Do you remember fiber flight spokes?

I remember seeing one break in a wheel at rest, leaning up
against the car. Man, what a crappy product that was!

JayofMontreal said:

I have a set of Topolinos. My first wheel had problems,
and Topolino not only replaced the wheel, they even paid
for the shipping. They've stood behind their product 100%.

As far as the ride quality: there is nothing finer. The
Carbon/Kevlar spokes absorb road vibration magnificently.
They are relatively light (1400 grams a pair), but the
reason to ride these babies is for the quality of ride.
Its like they have repaved the road under you, yet these
wheels are laterally stiff.

Oh, my. So vertically they are not stiff, since they absorb
road vibration, which in turn means that they are not
torsionally stiff (since those qualities are closely
related) and therefore wind up before transmitting your
energy to the road. And they are laterally stiff, which is
impossible in a tensioned bicycle wheel. Well done Topolino!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oveto wrote:
> Has anybody purchased/ridden the topolino

wheels. They sound

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> pretty cool as they "bend" the spoke through
> the hub. How

are they? daveornee said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The second reason is they are solving a problem
where a problem doesn't exist.

-snip-

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsk said:

People used to say that about indexed shifting & dual-
pivot brakes as well (and some still do). Just because
something works doesn't mean there isn't a better way
to do it, although I'm not passing judgement on the
merits of the wheel in question, but the philosophy
(why improve things that already work just fine)
itself.

-snip- daveornee said:

Point taken on the philoshphy... I only took one
philosophy course, but I have taken many engineering,
physics, and math courses. What's "improved" besides the
marketing plan of this manufacturer?

As the recent post eloquently summarized, these things are
perceived as "rigid yet flexible". Sky Yaeger used that
phrase often as a joke to paraphrase marketing campaigns.

The marketing seems to be superior and effective! A rider
actually said this about that (rigid yet flexible), having
been dup er, ah, having availed himself of this new "rigid
yet flexible" technology.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

charles ramsey said:

This sounds like harlen mayer's siameese spokes. Hi-E was
up for sale but I dont know if the business still exists.

Harlan isn't that old!!! Try some 1880's high wheelers
first!
--
---
Marten

They are stiff with regard to angular force, i.e. when you
are climbing the wheels feel stiff. The spoke material
however, gives an additional dampening to road vibration,
which as we all know, can make any ride tiring.

I am not a spokesperson for the company, however, I do like
the ride far more than a set of ksyriums that I tried. When
it comes down to it, a set of wheels should be strong, and
if possible, comfortable, which topolinos definitely are.

--

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"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:m2smg55sin.fsf@Stella-
Blue.local...

Quoted message said:

JayofMontreal said:

I have a set of Topolinos. My first wheel had problems,
and Topolino not only replaced the wheel, they even
paid for the shipping. They've stood behind their
product 100%.

As far as the ride quality: there is nothing finer. The
Carbon/Kevlar spokes absorb road vibration
magnificently. They are relatively light (1400 grams a
pair), but the reason to ride these babies is for the
quality of ride. Its like they have repaved the road
under you, yet these wheels are laterally stiff.

Oh, my. So vertically they are not stiff, since they
absorb road vibration, which in turn means that they are
not torsionally stiff (since those qualities are closely
related) and therefore wind up before transmitting your
energy to the road. And they are laterally stiff, which is
impossible in a tensioned bicycle wheel. Well done
Topolino!

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Quoted message said:

As the recent post eloquently summarized, these things are
perceived as "rigid yet flexible". Sky Yaeger used that
phrase often as a joke to paraphrase marketing campaigns.

The marketing seems to be superior and effective! A rider
actually said this about that (rigid yet flexible), having
been dup er, ah, having availed himself of this new "rigid
yet flexible" technology.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

I've never tired the Topolinos but I have used the original
Spinergys for many years. These had four pairs of carbon
fiber strips, and deep CF aero rim bottoms glued to AL rims.
They were flexible lateral but they did absorb more of the
road vibration then steel spoked wheels.

So they had one of those magical qualities, at the expense
of the other.

Bruce

oveto-<< Has anybody purchased/ridden the topolino wheels.
They sound pretty cool as they "bend" the spoke through the
hub. How are they? >><BR><BR>

Nelson Vales has a pair he got for free, and we are waiting
until he breaks one, like he has with just about every wheel
he has used..Mavic, Campagnolo, these, shimano...

We try to build him a pair but......

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

oveto-<< Has anybody purchased/ridden the topolino wheels.
They sound pretty cool as they "bend" the spoke through the
hub. How are they? >><BR><BR> Nelson Vales has a pair he
got for free, and we are waiting until he breaks one, like
he has with just about every wheel he has used..Mavic,
Campagnolo, these, shimano... We try to build him a pair
but......

Not surprising. He has put on a few pounds and I'm sure he
is still extremely strong.
----------------
Alex

The only way I could see breaking the wheel is to destroy
the rim or crash something into the spokes causing them to
be damaged. To snap one of those spokes from stress would be
extremely difficult I would think.

As the spokes are irreplaceable you have to install a new
half of the wheel. Raphael from topolino told me that they
are roughly $100 and that includes all the spokes for a 1/2
side and a new hubshell (the hubshell joins the wheels in
the middle of the hub.

--

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"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

oveto-<< Has anybody purchased/ridden the topolino wheels.
They sound

pretty

Quoted message said:

cool as they "bend" the spoke through the hub. How are
they? >><BR><BR>

Nelson Vales has a pair he got for free, and we are
waiting until he

breaks

Quoted message said:

one, like he has with just about every wheel he has
used..Mavic,

Campagnolo,

Quoted message said:

these, shimano...

We try to build him a pair but......

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

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Bruce Frech said:

Andrew Muzi sagely said:

As the recent post eloquently summarized, these things
are perceived as "rigid yet flexible". Sky Yaeger used
that phrase often as a joke to paraphrase marketing
campaigns.

The marketing seems to be superior and effective! A rider
actually said this about that (rigid yet flexible),
having been dup er, ah, having availed himself of this
new "rigid yet flexible" technology.

I've never tired the Topolinos but I have used the
original Spinergys for many years. These had four pairs of
carbon fiber strips, and deep CF aero rim bottoms glued to
AL rims. They were flexible lateral but they did absorb
more of the road vibration then steel spoked wheels.

Yes, and they shattered causing imminent peril to the people
using those wheels, hence Spinergy quietly withdrew them
from the market without ever publicly admitting the failure
of their design.

All spoke-based bike wheels are laterally flexible, except
for those with large cast metal, plastic or carbon fiber
"spokes" like BMX wheels or tri-spokes. Even Topolinos will
have this issue because it's unavoidable. Spinergy, having
so few spokes under relatively low tension, with large spans
of unsupported rim, had the added issue of vertical
flexibility to a greater degree than was good for them.
Spinergy tried several stop-gap fixes which also failed.

Quoted message said:

So they had one of those magical qualities, at the expense
of the other.

Magical is the appropriate word for things that are "rigid
yet flexible." Fortunately for the hype-meisters working in
the bicycle industry, people fool themselves into perceiving
what they are told they will perceive.

JayofMontreal said:

The only way I could see breaking the wheel is to destroy
the rim or crash something into the spokes causing them to
be damaged. To snap one of those spokes from stress would
be extremely difficult I would think.

As the spokes are irreplaceable you have to install a new
half of the wheel. Raphael from topolino told me that they
are roughly $100 and that includes all the spokes for a
1/2 side and a new hubshell (the hubshell joins the wheels
in the middle of the hub.

The only problem this design appears to solve is the
emptiness in Raphael's wallet.

It's interesting that the Web site is dependent on
subjective testimonials, pseudo-impressive technospeak and
some misleading information as well. Mavic could learn a
thing or two about marketing from these guys.

"oveto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<IXj6c.34699$Cb.555013@attbi_s51>...

Quoted message said:

Has anybody purchased/ridden the topolino wheels. They
sound pretty cool as they "bend" the spoke through the
hub. How are they?

Dear Oveto,

I knew nothing about these curious wheels and was
surprised by how little was actually said about them in
the responses so far.

When I looked at the site:

topolinotech.comtopolinotech.comOpen ↗

it seemed that among their numerous claims to improved
technology was that the hub no longer bears much of the
load, but instead passes it through at a slight angle to the
opposite spoke--what you call the bending.

Since few hubs break in normal use, this trick may not be
quite as impressive as the company imagines.

What did intrigue me was the use of non-metal Kevlar/carbon-
fiber spokes. These would seem to be immune to the spoke-
squeezing stress-relief theories about normal stainless-
steel spokes, so I'm curious how long they last.

Carl Fogel

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

The only way I could see breaking the wheel is to destroy
the rim or crash something into the spokes causing them to
be damaged. To snap one of those spokes from stress would
be extremely difficult I would think.

A twig in a spoke could cause damage that would eventually
cause the spoke to fail.

Quoted message said:

As the spokes are irreplaceable you have to install a new
half of the wheel. Raphael from topolino told me that they
are roughly $100 and that includes all the spokes for a 1/2
side and a new hubshell (the hubshell joins the wheels in
the middle of the hub.

$100 to fix wheel damage seems a bit steep. Especially when
you consider that a broken spoke on a regular wheel would
only set you back $20 or so.
--------------
Alex