Diabetics with GE insulin intolerance need help!

de.indymedia.org0685442.shtmlOpen ↗ For this article
automatic translation is possible.

Sabine Hancl <[email hidden]> wrote on 12 Jun 2004 13:22:59 -0700:

Hi, Sabine!

Quoted message said:

de.indymedia.org0685442.shtmlOpen ↗

Or even, possibly, at

de.indymedia.org85442.shtmlOpen ↗

:-). [No, I don't know what the double slash between "org"
:and "2004" is
there for.]

Quoted message said:

For this article automatic translation is possible.

Possibly. A sympthetic human translation would be far
better, though. So:

Quoted message said:

FREIE INSULINWAHL!

FREE CHOICE OF INSULIN!

Quoted message said:

von Sabine Hancl - 11.06.2004 20:09

Quoted message said:

Der durch gezielte Marktstrategie der Pharmakonzerne
forcierte hohe Marktanteil gentechnischer Insuline hat die
natürlichen tierischen Insuline nahezu komplett vom
Weltmarkt verdrängt. Diabetiker wurden nicht über die
bekannten Risiken gentechnischer Insuline aufgeklärt um
von ihrem Recht einer freien Insulinwahl Gebrauch machen
zu können.

The high market share of genetically engineered insulin,
forced through by the targeted marketing strategies of the
Pharmaceutical companies, has all but driven natural animal
insulin from the market. Diabetics haven't been informed of
the risks of genetically engineered insulin, and thus aren't
in a position to exercise their right of free choice.

Quoted message said:

Mehr als zwei Generationen lang waren tierische Insuline
lebenserhaltendes Medikament für Diabetiker. 1982 wurden
die ersten gentechnischen Insuline in Deutschland
zugelassen. Vermarktet wurden sie über eine
füllfederähnliche Spritzhilfe, den Pen, der für tierische
Insuline nicht hergestellt wurde.

For over two generations, animal insulin was a life saving
drug for diabetics. In 1982, the first GE insulin was
approved in Germany. It was marketed with an injection
device similar to a fountain pen, "the pen", which wasn't
manufactured for animal insulin.

Quoted message said:

Bereits wenige Monate nach der internationalen Zulassung
häuften sich Berichte aus verschiedenen Ländern über
unkontrollierte Unterzuckerungen, gestörte und fehlende
Unterzuckerungswahrnehmung mit plötzlicher
Bewustlosigkeit, schwankenden Blutzuckerwerten, instabiler
Insulinwirkungskurve bis zur totalen Unverträglichkeit.
Die Lebensqualität der betroffenen Diabetiker ist dadurch
stark eingeschränkt. Ungeachtet dieser Auffälligkeiten
unter gentechnischem Insulin werden immer weiter
entwickelte gentechnische Insuline zugelassen und
vermarktet, obwohl immer wieder auch Todesfälle durch das
"dead-in-bed-syndrom" gemeldet wurden.

Within a few months of the internaional approval, reports of
uncontrolled hypoglycaemia, damaged or absent awareness of
hypos leading to sudden unconciousness, fluctuating blood
sugar levels, instable insulin working curves and even
absolute intolerance began pouring in from various
countries. The quality of life of the affected diabetics was
considerably reduced. Despite these effects of GE insulin,
more and more GE insulins were approved and marketed, even
though deaths from "dead in bed syndrome" were being
continually reported.

Quoted message said:

Entgegen den Empfehlungen in dem von einer Expertengruppe
veröffentlichten internationalen Bellagio Report werden
ausnahmslos alle Diabetiker ohne Hinweise auf die
bekannten Risiken auf gentechnische Insuline ein- und
umgestellt. Eine freie Entscheidung bei der Insulinwahl
wird ihnen versagt. Durch Rückgang der Verordnungen ist
tierisches Insulin für die Pharmakonzerne nicht mehr
attraktiv, die Produktionen werden und wurden nahezu
eingestellt.

Contrary to the recommendations of the Bellagio Report
published by an international group of experts, all
diabetics were started on or converted to GE insulin without
any mention of the known risks. A free choice is being
denied. Since less animal insulin is being prescribed, it is
no longer of interest to the pharaceutical companies and its
production has been and is being halted.

Quoted message said:

Bei fehlender Unterzuckerungswahrnehmung wird nicht auf
tierisches Insulin umgestellt sondern von den
Krankenkassen finanzierte psychologische
Wahrnehmungstrainings verordnet.

When diabetics suffer from a lack of hypo symptoms, rather
than converting them to animal insulin, they are sent to
psychological "awareness training", paid for by the
Krankenkassen [the German health insurance funds].

Quoted message said:

Für eine nicht unerhebliche Anzahl von Menschen mit einer
Unverträglichkeit gentechnischer Insuline ist die
medikamentöse Verorgung nicht mehr gesichert.
Internationale Organisationen (Forum Insulin Schweiz, IDDT
international, Diabetics International Foundation) kämpfen
für den Erhalt tierischer Insuline auf dem Weltmarkt.
Pharmakonzernunterstützte Diabetesverbände ignorieren die
Betroffenen.

For the not inconsiderable number of people with an
intolerance to GE insulin, their medical supplies are no
longer assured. International organisations (Forum Insulin
Schweiz, IDDT international, Diabetics International
Foundation) are fighting for the retention of animal insulin
on the world market. Diabetes organisations sponsored by
pharmaceutical companies have been ignoring the victims.

Quoted message said:

Tierische Insuline sind sichere und erprobte Insuline.
Bisher vergeblich hat die EMEA Studien zu Unbedenklichkeit
neuerer gentechnischer Insuline gefordert. Lediglich die
australische Regierung hat auf die Situation der
Betroffenen reagiert: Sie deklarierte tierisches Insulin
zum wichtigen Medikament und macht damit öffentlich, daß
es Menschen mit einer Unverträglichkeit gibt. Sie hat die
Verantwortung dafür übernommen, diesen Menschen tierische
Insuline zugänglich zu machen.

Animal insulins are safe and proven insulins. The EMEA has
called for studies on the safety of newer GE insulins, so
far without success. Only the Australian government has so
far reacted to the plight of the victims. It has declared
animal insulin to be an important drug, and has thus
publicly acknowledged the existence of people with an
intolerance to GE insulin, thus taking on the responsibility
of making animial insulin available to these people.

[ .... ]

Quoted message said:

Hier noch eine Liste von Organisationen und Petitionen für
den Erhalt tierischer Insuline:

Here's a list of organisations and petitions about the
retention of animal insulin:

Organisations: Diabetics International Foundation:
www.members.tripod.com/diabetics_world Forum Insulin
Schweiz: www.insulin.ch Insulin Dependent Diabetics Trust:
www.iddtinternational.org

Petitions: US:
gopetition.cominfo.phpOpen ↗
Canada: gopetition.cominfo.phpOpen ↗ Germany:
gopetition.com3152.htmlOpen ↗ Netherlands and
Belgium: gopetition.cominfo.phpOpen ↗

e-Mail:: [email hidden] Homepage::
gopetition.com3152.htmlOpen ↗

--
Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany) Email: [email hidden]; to
decode, wherever there is a repeated letter (like "aa"😉,
remove half of them (leaving, say, "a"😉.

Hi Alan, thank you very much for your great help! Sabine

Alan Mackenzie said:

Sabine Hancl <[email hidden]> wrote on 12 Jun 2004
13:22:59 -0700:

Quoted message said:

Hi, Sabine!

Quoted message said:

de.indymedia.org0685442.shtmlOpen ↗

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For this article automatic translation is possible.

Possibly. A sympthetic human translation would be far
better, though. So:

Quoted message said:

FREIE INSULINWAHL!

Quoted message said:

FREE CHOICE OF INSULIN!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

von Sabine Hancl - 11.06.2004 20:09

Der durch gezielte Marktstrategie der Pharmakonzerne
forcierte hohe Marktanteil gentechnischer Insuline hat
die natürlichen tierischen Insuline nahezu komplett vom
Weltmarkt verdrängt. Diabetiker wurden nicht über die
bekannten Risiken gentechnischer Insuline aufgeklärt um
von ihrem Recht einer freien Insulinwahl Gebrauch machen
zu können.

Quoted message said:

The high market share of genetically engineered insulin,
forced through by the targeted marketing strategies of the
Pharmaceutical companies, has all but driven natural
animal insulin from the market. Diabetics haven't been
informed of the risks of genetically engineered insulin,
and thus aren't in a position to exercise their right of
free choice.

hi alan and thanks for the translation. 🙂

lessee... as i understand it (i'm not a "business" person),
business success entails: superior-product/attractive-
price/marketing

in my opinion, in the pharmaceutical business, marketing
(and perceptions of everyday people) is even more important
than most businesses, and more than half of the marketing
work (and cost) is already done for the big pharmas in that
most people in the leading countries in the world have huge
trust/belief in the "goodness" of the latest hi-tech drugs

re the "risks of GE insulin": the whole thing has more than
a hint of politics (a poster on a.s.thyroid recently used
the "politics" word and it certainly rang a bell with me),
and i personally fault our not so lovely FDA (i'm in the
USA) on the information that they do and don't make public

for example, the year 2000 was the last time that Lilly's
wonderful beef-insulin could be purchased OTC in the USA
(OTC = Over The Counter). the FDA then took to warning about
the "serious" risk of getting "mad cow" disease if you
persisted in using beef-insulin. interestingly, _*ALL*_ of
the synthetic insulins appear to in fact make use of beef-
product in the production process of producing these new
synthetic insulins ("human"-insulin and lispro and aspart
and glargine). yet as far as i know, our not so lovely FDA
makes no mention of beef product being used in the
production process of synthetic insulin. (i asked my
personal doc in Janurary of this year and he was unaware of
it.) it took about 5 years for long time T1's (like me) to
find info on it. where? on the European web site

another example of the "politics" of the pharma biz: this
last week i got my Armour thyroid (dessicated pig) from
Costco. on the counter was a single page flyer (with the
names of both FDA and Illinois Pharmacists on it), stating
that one should not buy their prescription drugs from Canada
with "risk of counterfeiting" being one of 6 reasons. i
looked at the pharmacist (a real pharmacist) and commented:
this is 99% nonsense; for one thing the sky high
pharmaceutical pricing in the USA guarantees that the USA is
where one is more likely to run into drug counterfeiting. i
can add that i buy both pork insulin and Synthroid from
www.canadapharmacy.com and it is identically the same as
what i can buy in the USA. the diff is that in the USA i pay
3x more. (Lilly appears to be doing the same as Glaxo (GSK)
in cutting off the companies like canadapharmacy, so this
may (?) be the last of my pork insulin from Canada)

re the "high market share": beef insulin is no longer
offered in the USA, and pork insulin volume continues to
spiral downward (likely well under 1% of total insulin sales
in the USA). just recently, Lilly discontinued pork-Lente,
leaving only pork-NPH and pork-R (R = Regular, aka soluble
aka neutral)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mehr als zwei Generationen lang waren tierische Insuline
lebenserhaltendes Medikament für Diabetiker. 1982 wurden
die ersten gentechnischen Insuline in Deutschland
zugelassen. Vermarktet wurden sie über eine
füllfederähnliche Spritzhilfe, den Pen, der für tierische
Insuline nicht hergestellt wurde.

Quoted message said:

For over two generations,

"two generations" is too nebulous, better would be "for over
83 years" (comment is to Sabine Hancl)

Quoted message said:

animal insulin was

"was"???

NOT!

how about: "has been"

Quoted message said:

a life saving drug for diabetics.

<big snip>

bill t1 since '57 ex 8-yr pumper, pork-beef-L 2x,
simple MDI/DAFNE

p.s.

anyone on a.s.thyroid have a clue as to what percent
marketshare Armour Thyroid has in the USA?

i'd think that it's more than 1%, but wouldn't bet any large
amount one way or the other

if you have a clue, kindly also cross-post it to
m.h.diabetes. thanks

Sabine Hancl <[email hidden]> wrote on 13 Jun 2004 10:52:39 -0700:

Quoted message said:

thank you very much for your great help!

Not a problem! It was fun. You might well notice that this
sort of thread/post gets a much warmer reception here in
m.h.d. than on
de.sci.medizin.diabetes. I've still not worked out why.

Do you mind if I ask you a personal question? Namely, you've
described on d.s.m.d. how GE insulin once nearly killed you,
taking a year out of your life in the process. Do you have
any specific reasons for believing that it's "GE insulin"
which you're intolerant of, rather than specifically "GE
_human_ insulin"?

Quoted message said:

Sabine

--
Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany) Email: [email hidden]; to
decode, wherever there is a repeated letter (like "aa"😉,
remove half of them (leaving, say, "a"😉.

Alan Mackenzie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Do you mind if I ask you a personal question? Namely,
you've described on d.s.m.d. how GE insulin once nearly
killed you, taking a year out of your life in the process.
Do you have any specific reasons for believing that it's
"GE insulin" which you're intolerant of, rather than
specifically "GE _human_ insulin"?

My body is unable to cop with genetically engineered
insulin. I have antibodies. This insulin is interacting with
my brain metabolism. I´ve had my first experiences with
human insulin in 1989. The pharmacist gave Velasulin HM
instead of MC to me. I didn´t notice, because the packing
and the stickers on the ampoules were the same, only HM
instead of MC. Already short after the first injection I
felt extreme tiredness, could not stand up, in my head was
confusion, I felt no low bloodsugar, didn´t know what to do,
was helpless. It runs for hours. Then somebody had the idea
to control if the combination of the insulin is changed and
saw the fatal error. At that time antibodies were diagnosed.
Doctors told me never to try again others than animal
insulins. When I got the "wrong" insulin in hospital (animal
insulin was not in stock),I had an acute cerebrale
occurence, a brain edema, apnoea and after reanimation a
psychosis exogenous. I was medicatet in psychiatry for one
year, left last july. Can you realize my fear to know, that
animal insulin can be unavailable one day? More than 10% of
all insulin dependent diabetics have different problems with
tolerance of GE insulin. Sabine

Alan Mackenzie said:

Sabine Hancl wrote on 13 Jun 2004 10:52:39 -0700:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thank you very much for your great help!

Quoted message said:

Not a problem! It was fun. You might well notice that this
sort of thread/post gets a much warmer reception here in
m.h.d. than on
de.sci.medizin.diabetes. I've still not worked out why.

my one venture into de.sci.medizin.diabetes makes me think
that *real* Germans (you are a transplanted Scot) have a
differnt mindset from that of UK people and/or
Americans/Canadians/Australians

Quoted message said:

Do you mind if I ask you a personal question? Namely,
you've described on d.s.m.d. how GE insulin once nearly
killed you, taking a year out of your life in the process.
Do you have any specific reasons for believing that it's
"GE insulin" which you're intolerant of, rather than
specifically "GE _human_ insulin"?

since sabine won't talk to me (her loss), i'll provide my
answer. 🙂

i pumped for "8" years (1/'91 thru 8/'98), using synthetic
insulin. most of it was with semi-synthetic Velosulin ("human"-
R). with the last 10 months being rDNA Humalog
(a.k.a. lispro)

in '92 or '93 i started getting a *severe* cough cold in the
winter. one year i got 2!! i'd previously SELDOM gotten
cough colds, yet i got them for about 5 years in a row (with
even 2 (!!!) of them in one of the last years)

i then ditched synthetic insulin (8/'98) and pumped
unbuffered beef:pork R (roughly 70:30)

what a difference with real beef insulin!!!!!

the 1st thing i noticed was intense hunger (1st few days!),
which took months to subside

the next thing i noticed (at roughly 10 weeks) was that i
felt better... a LOT better

since then i've not had any more cough colds

not one

my health is back to what it was in the 70's and 80's. 🙂

it's the insulin stupid! not one single question in my mind!

why is that so hard to figure out?

why do so many t1's reject this and go blind? (like
marilyn and mike)

i'll readily add that i've only ever used 2 or 3 vials of
rDNA "human"-R insulin. my 7 years of "human"-R was mostly
semi-synthetic

fwiw, i also suspect that i'd be OK if i were to go to a
50/50 routine using 2x of "human"-UL for my background and
pork-R for my meals

but like sabine, i'm leary of using synthetic insulin of any
kind at this point (rDNA or semi-synthetic), although i did
recently go back to using up the last of my semi-synthetic-R
1-to-2 years ago, in order to get a more accurate sense of
speed differences between "human"-R and pork-R (they're very
close in profile/speed))

given that i recently stocked up a lot on Lilly's pork-L
(now discontinued), so i'm now going to have to get serious
about importing CP's beef-L (it won't surprise me if it's
gone in another 2 years, which might leave only India for
beef insulin)

bill t1 since '57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork/beef-L 2x,
simple MDI/DAFNE

Sabine Hancl said:

Alan Mackenzie <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Do you mind if I ask you a personal question? Namely,
you've described on d.s.m.d. how GE insulin once nearly
killed you, taking a year out of your life in the
process. Do you have any specific reasons for believing
that it's "GE insulin" which you're intolerant of, rather
than specifically "GE _human_ insulin"?

My body is unable to cop with genetically engineered
insulin. I have antibodies.

every diabetic makes antibodies in response to *any*
injected insulin (whether it's synthetic insulin (GE as
you call it (Genetically Engineered?), or beef insulin or
pork insulin)

Quoted message said:

This insulin is interacting with my brain metabolism. I´ve
had my first experiences with human insulin in 1989. The
pharmacist gave Velasulin HM instead of MC to me.

interesting

do you still use an insulin pump?

what brand?

and what insulin do you use in it?

Quoted message said:

I didn´t
notice,
because the
packing and
the
stickers on
the
ampoules
were the
same, only
HM instead
of MC.
Already
short after
the first
injection I
felt
extreme
tiredness,
could not
stand up,
in my head
was
confusion,
I felt no
low bloods-
ugar,
didn´t know
what to do,
was
helpless.
It runs for
hours. Then
somebody
had the
idea to
control if
the combin-
ation of
the insulin
is changed
and saw the
fatal
error. At
that time
antibodies
were
diagnosed.
Doctors
told me
never to
try again
others than
animal
insulins.
When I got
the "wrong"
insulin in
hospital
(animal
insulin was
not in
stock),I
had an
acute
cerebrale
occurence,
a brain
edema,
apnoea and
after rean-
imation a
psychosis
exogenous.
I was
medicatet
in
psychiatry
for one
year, left
last july.
Can you
realize my
fear to
know, that
animal
insulin can
be unavail-
able one
day?

stock up. if you are young, stock up more

with half decent refridgeration, animal insulin will last 50
years with less than 5% potency loss. and as far as i know,
increasing toxicity (which goes hand in hand with
age/potency loss) has never been a serious issue with
insulin (as it sometimes is with other pharmaceuticals)

before you stock up, kindly answer my questions (above)

bill t1 since '57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork-beef-L 2x,
simple MDI/DAFNE

Quoted message said:

More than 10% of all insulin
dependent diabetics have different
problems with tolerance of GE
insulin.

Sabine Hancl <[email hidden]> wrote on 14 Jun 2004 12:03:30 -0700:

Quoted message said:

Alan Mackenzie <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you mind if I ask you a personal question? Namely,
you've described on d.s.m.d. how GE insulin once nearly
killed you, taking a year out of your life in the
process. Do you have any specific reasons for believing
that it's "GE insulin" which you're intolerant of, rather
than specifically "GE _human_ insulin"?

Quoted message said:

My body is unable to cop with genetically engineered
insulin. I have antibodies. This insulin is interacting
with my brain metabolism.

What I meant was, are you sure you mean ALL types of GE
insulin (including lispro, glargine, ....) rather than just
GE human insulin? Not that I'd be keen on experimentation if
I were in your position, I'm just curious: how do you know
you can't tolerate lispro, etc.?

Quoted message said:

I´ve had my first experiences with human insulin in 1989.
The pharmacist gave Velasulin HM instead of MC to me. I
didn´t notice, because the packing and the stickers on the
ampoules were the same, only HM instead of MC.

Been there, done that, got the Tshirt. With me it was
Actrapid MC and Rapitard MC at the time, with Novo's
marketing [censored] doing everything they could to say "hey,
it's just the same, really!".

Quoted message said:

Already short after the first injection I felt extreme
tiredness, could not stand up, in my head was confusion, I
felt no low bloodsugar, didn´t know what to do, was
helpless. It runs for hours. Then somebody had the idea to
control if the combination of the insulin is changed and
saw the fatal error. At that time antibodies were
diagnosed.

For me, it was a subtle loss of hypo symptoms - not
complete loss, but enough to matter. Subtle enough, that I
didn't connect the loss with the HM insulin. However, many
indeed were the sugar lumps which coped with non-existent
hypos. :-(

Quoted message said:

Doctors told me never to try again others than animal
insulins. When I got the "wrong" insulin in hospital
(animal insulin was not in stock), I had an acute cerebral
occurence, a brain edema, apnoea and after reanimation a
psychosis exogenous. I was medicatet in psychiatry for one
year, left last july. Can you realize my fear to know,
that animal insulin can be unavailable one day? More than
10% of all insulin dependent diabetics have different
problems with tolerance of GE insulin.

Yes, I can understand that fear, even though for me it
wouldn't mean death. How big is your stockpile of insulin?
In your position, I would be building up as big a supply as
possible. Surely you could get your doc to prescribe MUCH
more than you currently use. (Insulin lasts many decades at
fridge temperatures, not the nominal two years.) Gradually
build up a 10, 15, 20 year supply. That way, if the crisis
ever does hit, you'll have more time to search out
alternatives.

But Australia, Switzerland, and probably quite a few other
places are going to continue for the foreseeable future with
natural insulin. Maybe you should emigrate. ;-)

Sabine

--
Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany) Email: [email hidden]; to
decode, wherever there is a repeated letter (like "aa"😉,
remove half of them (leaving, say, "a"😉.

Quoted message said:

bill t1 since '57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork/beef-L 2x, simple
MDI/DAFNE

Hi Bill! You´re really t1 since ´57?? You grew up with
animal insulin? I think about why some people have problems
with synthetically insulin. Almost all of them changed from
animal insulin to GE insulin. The longer they used animal
insulin the much worse are the problems. When I installed a
new catalytic converter into the exhaust of my old Citroen
2CV, it functioned but destroyed the engine. My feeling is,
that animal insulin is adapted at my body, I was 8 years old
when I begun using insulin. CP animal insulin is also
produced by Wockhardt India since two years. So I hope
production will go on. Greetings from Sabine

Quoted message said:

What I meant was, are you sure you mean ALL types of GE insulin
(including lispro, glargine, ....) rather than just GE human insulin?
Not that I'd be keen on experimentation if I were in your position, I'm
just curious: how do you know you can't tolerate lispro, etc.?

I would never try any GE insulin. I am too shocked about
what happened to me.

Quoted message said:

But Australia, Switzerland, and probably quite a few other
places are going to continue for the foreseeable future
with natural insulin. Maybe you should emigrate. ;-)

Super idea! But where shall I go to? Diabetics in Australia
import beef insulin from CP Pharma UK, the same in the US
and in a lot of other countries.I compiled a list with all
producers of animal insulin worldwide. We all hope, that CP
will never discontinue the production of pork and beef
insulin. I have a place in Southern Senegaland also in
Africa they only have GE insulin since one year. One world
for Novo Nordisk!

Quoted message said:

interesting

do you still use an insulin pump?

what brand?

and what insulin do you use in it?

No, I don´t use an insulin pump. In my fridge is a lot of
Insulatard MC Novo Nordisk, I ´ve imported from Switzerland
and Hypurin Porcine Isophane, CP. It works by the same way.
My short-time-working insulin is S.N.C. Berlin Chemie.
Berlin Chemie will stop the production of animal insulin in
Germany. They are the biggest exporter to Russia.I cann´t
use the depot insulin from Berlin Chemie because it is an
acid insulin. I use pork insulin. I inject 40 Insulatard or
Hypurin and 9 S.N.C. in the morning and 6
S.N.C. for the evening meal. Correction is always 1 S.N.C.
per 40mg/% if I have more than 140 mg/% bloodsugar.
We need S.N.C., because it is available in a short
time. Importation of insulin from Switzerland is
contingent upon a delivery time of about 14 days.
Greetings! Sabine

Quoted message said:

bill t1 since '57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork-beef-L 2x, simple
MDI/DAFNE

Quoted message said:

More than 10% of all insulin
dependent diabetics
have different problems with tolerance of GE insulin.

Sabine Hancl said:

Quoted message said:

bill t1 since '57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork/beef-L 2x, simple
MDI/DAFNE

Quoted message said:

Hi Bill! You´re really t1 since ´57??

yes

and yes, i grew up using beef/pork insulin for my 1st 10+
years. i'm happy to say that i've got little or no diabetic
complications (so far)

Quoted message said:

You grew up with animal insulin? I think about why some
people have problems with synthetically insulin. Almost
all of them changed from animal insulin to GE insulin.

if i ever get 100 million dollars (don't hold your breath),
i'll make a serious effort to fund a DCCT type study on type-
1 diabetics (who've only ever used synthetic insulin) moving
to using beef insulin

the past studies have all been from using pork insulin to
using "human"-insulin

my bet is that a *real* study on going the other way will
show that there are (still) very serious issues with
synthetic insulin

bill t1 since '57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork/beef-L 2x,
simple MDI/DAFNE

Sabine Hancl said:

willbill wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

do you still use an insulin pump?

what brand?

and what insulin do you use in it?

Quoted message said:

No, I don´t use an insulin pump.

diabetics that use Novo's Velosulin (as you have) are almost
always users of an insulin pump

assuming that you used a pump in the past, what made you
decide to go away from using an insulin pump?

for me it was my "discovery" of beef-Lente in early 1999. at
that time the mis-information on the profile/action curve of
all of the Lente insulins was that they are intermediate
background insulins. nothing could be further from the
truth, especially when it comes to slow beef insulin. this
is because all of the Lente insulins have 70% UL
(UltraLente) in them, which guarantees that they are in fact
extreme long action (96+ hours for beef-UL)

Quoted message said:

In my fridge is a lot of Insulatard MC Novo Nordisk,

just so everybody is on the same page, Insulatard is Novo's
name for NPH (a.k.a. isophane). MC suggests (to me) that it
is pork-NPH (any chance that it is beef-NPH?)

Quoted message said:

I´ve imported from Switzerland and Hypurin Porcine
Isophane, CP. It works by the same way. My short-time-
working insulin is S.N.C. Berlin Chemie.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

my guess is that it is pork-R (Regular or neutral or
soluble). is this correct?

Quoted message said:

Berlin Chemie will stop the production of animal insulin
in Germany. They are the biggest exporter to Russia.I
cann´t use the depot insulin from Berlin Chemie because it
is an acid insulin.

what is "depot" insulin?

and why is it acid?????

the only acid insulin that i know of is Lantus/glargine, but
somehow i think that you mean something else?

Quoted message said:

I use pork insulin. I inject 40 Insulatard or Hypurin and
9 S.N.C. in the morning and 6
S.N.C. for the evening meal. Correction is always 1 S.N.C.
per 40mg/% if I have more than 140 mg/% bloodsugar.
We need S.N.C., because it is available in a short
time. Importation of insulin from Switzerland is
contingent upon a delivery time of about 14 days.

if you've never used beef insulin, the odds are very large
that you'll like either beef-NPH or beef-Lente a lot better
than the pork-NPH that you are currently using for your
background insulin

since you've imported insulin from CP, i suggest that you
give serious thought to switching to CP's beef-Lente as your
background insulin

Lente is 70% UL, and beef-UL is basically flat with 1x
dosing. a VERY large majority of diabetics can use beef-L
1x, and the flatness of beef-UL at the 24 hour mark means
that you have a lot of leeway on when you take the shot. in
other words, if you are one of those who has fairly flat
morning blood glucose levels, then dosing 1x of beef-L upon
rising (for the UL content at the 24 hour mark) allows you
to sleep in the next morning coz the flat action from the UL
will still be there in the 24-to-30 hour period even though
you are late with your morning shot of beef-L

for example, given your current simple fixed routine with 55
total units of insulin, you could consider going to a simple
basal/bolus routine using 1x of beef-L upon rising. since
you are dosing for the UL content, you'll have to eat small
amounts of food at mid-morning and lunch (for the 30% beef-
SL (SemiLente) that is in Lente

my guess is that 25 or 30 units of beef-Lente taken upon
rising would be likely to meet your basal needs while you
are asleep. if you want to eat any dinner you'll have to
fully dose for it with your R insulin in the evening,
because your morning 1x shot of beef-Lente won't provide
much insulin action (above your basal needs) in the evening
and the morning hours of the next day

if you decide to give beef-Lente a try, dosing with it for
it's UL content will require that you increase the dose as
you go through each bottle, because the heavy 70% UL
crystals fall to the "bottom" of the vial fast no matter how
well you mix the vial (the 30% SL is much lighter). for
example, at the start of a new vial if you were using 25
units, by the end of the vial it is likely to be up to 30-to-
35 units, because the UL content inside the bottle has
fallen off from 70% due to more of it (proportionaly) having
been sucked into the syringe at the start of a new vial
(than the lighter SL). so for a starting 25 units, you'd
have to eat mid-morning/lunch for 7.5 units of SL (25*.3 =
7.5); and for the end of the vial you'd have to eat mid-
morning/lunch for roughly 10.5 units of SL (35*.3)

this dosing adjustment keeps the UL constant. 🙂

bill t1 since '57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork-beef-L 2x,
simple MDI/DAFNE

Hi Sabine,

Pork insulin made by Lilly-Iletin II is still being
made(Isophane and Neutral) and is not prescription in USA
and Canada. You should be able to buy it online, but I'd
wait till October so the shipment would be cooler. Bill
says they're screwing with Canadian websites over their
low prices.

Stock up and keep it as close to 4C as you can. (Jens Brange-
Galenics of Insulin) If you want the exact quote send me an
email, bitte-taking out the nospam in the address.
Entschuldigung Sie mir.

If you do it will lose only 5% of its viability after 95
years.

I'm still using some Iletin I beef/pork mix) insulin
manufactured in 1997 and it's still potent. Wenn on holiday
I go back to Iletin I exclusively as a treat.

I tried RDNA insulin for six weeks in 2000. It was horrid,
unpredictable, peaky, wimpy, and didn't last very long after
injection. Too much up front and too little after 7-8 hours.

Keep the faith and believe in Herr Doktor Tuescher. I've
talked with him twice at the last two IDDT meetings in
Birmingham, UK.

all the best,

BNF

T1 since 1962(42years) 2x HypurinBovine/Lente mixed with
LillyIletinIIPork/Regular last A1C 5.7 on a normal 4.3 to
5.9 minimum carbs but more than South Beach

Sabine Hancl said:

No, I don´t use an insulin pump. In my fridge is a lot of
Insulatard MC Novo Nordisk, I ´ve imported from
Switzerland and Hypurin Porcine Isophane, CP. It works by
the same way. My short-time-working insulin is S.N.C.
Berlin Chemie. Berlin Chemie will stop the production of
animal insulin in Germany. They are the biggest exporter
to Russia.I cann´t use the depot insulin from Berlin
Chemie because it is an acid insulin. I use pork insulin.
I inject 40 Insulatard or Hypurin and 9 S.N.C. in the
morning and 6
S.N.C. for the evening meal. Correction is always 1 S.N.C.
per 40mg/% if I have more than 140 mg/% bloodsugar.
We need S.N.C., because it is available in a short
time. Importation of insulin from Switzerland is
contingent upon a delivery time of about 14 days.
Greetings! Sabine

willbill said:

just so everybody is on the same page, Insulatard is
Novo's name for NPH (a.k.a. isophane). MC suggests (to me)
that it is pork-NPH (any chance that it is beef-NPH?)

Quoted message said:

I´ve imported from Switzerland and Hypurin Porcine
Isophane, CP. It works by the same way. My short-time-
working insulin is S.N.C. Berlin Chemie.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

my guess is that it is pork-R (Regular or neutral or
soluble). is this correct?

Quoted message said:

Berlin Chemie will stop the production of animal insulin
in Germany. They are the biggest exporter to Russia.I
cann´t use the depot insulin from Berlin Chemie because
it is an acid insulin.

what is "depot" insulin?

and why is it acid?????

the only acid insulin that i know of is Lantus/glargine,
but somehow i think that you mean something else?

Quoted message said:

I use pork insulin. I inject 40 Insulatard or Hypurin
and 9 S.N.C. in the morning and 6
S.N.C. for the evening meal. Correction is always 1
S.N.C. per 40mg/% if I have more than 140 mg/%
bloodsugar. We need S.N.C., because it is
available in a short time. Importation of insulin
from Switzerland is contingent upon a delivery
time of about 14 days.

if you've never used beef insulin, the odds are very large
that you'll like either beef-NPH or beef-Lente a lot
better than the pork-NPH that you are currently using for
your background insulin

since you've imported insulin from CP, i suggest that you
give serious thought to switching to CP's beef-Lente as
your background insulin

Lente is 70% UL, and beef-UL is basically flat with 1x
dosing. a VERY large majority of diabetics can use beef-L
1x, and the flatness of beef-UL at the 24 hour mark means
that you have a lot of leeway on when you take the shot.
in other words, if you are one of those who has fairly
flat morning blood glucose levels, then dosing 1x of beef-
L upon rising (for the UL content at the 24 hour mark)
allows you to sleep in the next morning coz the flat
action from the UL will still be there in the 24-to-30
hour period even though you are late with your morning
shot of beef-L

for example, given your current simple fixed routine with
55 total units of insulin, you could consider going to a
simple basal/bolus routine using 1x of beef-L upon rising.
since you are dosing for the UL content, you'll have to
eat small amounts of food at mid-morning and lunch (for
the 30% beef-SL (SemiLente) that is in Lente

my guess is that 25 or 30 units of beef-Lente taken upon
rising would be likely to meet your basal needs while you
are asleep. if you want to eat any dinner you'll have to
fully dose for it with your R insulin in the evening,
because your morning 1x shot of beef-Lente won't provide
much insulin action (above your basal needs) in the
evening and the morning hours of the next day

if you decide to give beef-Lente a try, dosing with it for
it's UL content will require that you increase the dose as
you go through each bottle, because the heavy 70% UL
crystals fall to the "bottom" of the vial fast no matter
how well you mix the vial (the 30% SL is much lighter).
for example, at the start of a new vial if you were using
25 units, by the end of the vial it is likely to be up to
30-to-35 units, because the UL content inside the bottle
has fallen off from 70% due to more of it (proportionaly)
having been sucked into the syringe at the start of a new
vial (than the lighter SL). so for a starting 25 units,
you'd have to eat mid-morning/lunch for 7.5 units of SL
(25*.3 = 7.5); and for the end of the vial you'd have to
eat mid-morning/lunch for roughly 10.5 units of SL (35*.3)

this dosing adjustment keeps the UL constant. 🙂

bill t1 since '57, ex 8-yr pumper, pork-beef-L 2x, simple
MDI/DAFNE

willbill said:

just so everybody is on the same page, Insulatard is
Novo's name for NPH (a.k.a. isophane). MC suggests (to me)
that it is pork-NPH (any chance that it is beef-NPH?)

The MC is pork to distinguish it from RDNA which is
Insulatard TC

Quoted message said:

what is "depot" insulin?

and why is it acid?????

It sounds like they're still making regular in the acid form
like Lilly did prior to 1973. This acid regular mixed with
NPH quickly mixed and the excess protamine converted the
regular to NPH till you doubled it up. This largely went
away when they made Regular neutral. This is what my doc
told me in 1966

T1 since 1962(42years) 2x HypurinBovine/Lente mixed with
LillyIletinIIPork/Regular last A1C 5.7 on a normal 4.3 to
5.9 minimum carbs but more than South Beach

Quoted message said:

diabetics that use Novo's Velosulin (as you have) are
almost always users of an insulin pump

assuming that you used a pump in the past, what made you
decide to go away from using an insulin pump?

I always loathed using a pump!! First years of my diabetes I
used beef insulin (I was 8 years old). Then I had Velasulin
pork up to Novo Nordisk broke the production. I got the last
Velasulin in December 2001. 2002 I used all Velasulin pork I
had in stock. Nobody told me, that there is animal insulin
produced in Germany! After that I imported Velasulin pork
under it´s other name Actrapid suis from Switzerland. When I
was that year in hospital, the hospital-pharmacy could not
get Actrapid suis but S.N.C. Berlin Chemie (porc). First
time I heard about this insulin. Insulatard (pork, depot)
was no problem (with 14 days delivery time). There is a
production of not for humans available animal insulin for a
minor of diabetics in Germany: The Caninsulin for diabetic
dogs!! I asked the health ministry to allow me to use it, if
I have a bottleneck with my insulin. He didn´t allow. But
the veterinary of my dogs has it always in stock for me. It
is the same pork insulin Mixtard 30/70) that was produced
for humans some years ago. The problem here is, that
internists are educated by a diabetics organisation which is
sponsored by all big pharmacompanies. This organisation call
them "partners". The diabetologists were not informed about
problems with synthetically insulins, about diabetics, who
have a better therapy with animal insulin. They do not know
the source of supply for animal insulin. This is the reason
why I handle my therapy by myself. And - like you -I have no
diabetes complications. Knock Knock Knock! Sabine
gopetition.com3152.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

just so everybody is on the same page, Insulatard is
Novo's name for NPH (a.k.a. isophane). MC suggests (to me)
that it is pork-NPH (any chance that it is beef-NPH?)

Quoted message said:

I´ve imported from Switzerland and Hypurin Porcine
Isophane, CP. It works by the same way. My short-time-
working insulin is S.N.C. Berlin Chemie.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

my guess is that it is pork-R (Regular or neutral or
soluble). is this correct?

Quoted message said:

Berlin Chemie will stop the production of animal insulin
in Germany. They are the biggest exporter to Russia.I
cann´t use the depot insulin from Berlin Chemie because
it is an acid insulin.

what is "depot" insulin?

and why is it acid?????

Yes, MC means pork insulin. Depot is my basisinsulin I
inject one time in the morning. Insulatard MC is like
Hypurin Isophane CP. My feeling is, that Insulatard
from Novo Nordisk is acting a little bit more
aggressive than Hypurin.

Quoted message said:

acid? The pH-value is not neutral. Sabine