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Devine followup

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Australia and New Zealand
Published
22 June 2006
Last activity
27 June 2006
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Email address hidden
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9
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  1. To: SMH feedback, Miranda Devine
    BCC: Mediawatch
    Subject: Failure to respond to inquiry, repost: Miranda Devine's
    commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH

    Dear Readerlink, Dear Miranda,

    I draw your attention to my correspondance to M. Devine of last
    Thursday (included below as plain text). I eagerly awaited Miranda's
    article this week, sure in the knowledge that a respectable public
    intellectual would retract her factually incorrect statements at the
    earliest opportunity offered to her, and provide correct facts in
    their place. I was sorely disappointed.

    As I have received no correspondance from the SMH, or from Miranda, I
    am forced to ask the editors of the Herald:

    Are they in the business of paying public intellectuals who make
    mistakes of fact, fail to address their mistakes of fact, fail to
    correspond regarding mistakes of fact, and fail to retract their
    mistakes of fact? I have no issue with the Herald's selection of a
    wide variety of opinions: I greatly appreciate the breadth of scope of
    social and political opinion represented. I am disappointed regarding
    the assertion of facts untrue, especially by the premier paper of
    record in New South Wales. The Herald has a journalistic and social
    obligation to ensure that the matters of fact it prints are true.

    I would like to be reassured of the procedures the SMH takes to
    fulfill this obligation. What steps to the Editors take to ensure that
    the utterances of the commentators paid to fill the Commentary section
    are factually correct? What steps to the Editors take when statements
    are proved to be factually incorrect? What training to the Editors
    provide to commentators to make them aware of their obligations
    regarding facts (as seperate to opinion) when making public
    utterances? My current experience is a far cry from a year ago when I
    challenged an opinion piece writer to substantiate a fact: that
    writers editor assured me of the writers sources and kept regular
    correspondance with me regarding the issue.

    Miranda: it is disappointing to see your failure to correct this
    matter, or to provide adequate correspondance to me regarding it. I
    am afraid to suspect that rather than a matter of a lack of time (as
    original suggested below) that this may be a matter of a lack of
    competence. I hope the Editors can provide you with adequate training
    and couselling to help you through this difficult time. Perhaps the
    Editors could provide training in expressing matters of opinion, for
    example, "In my opinion, The road is not there to share. It is for
    cars. Footpaths are for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if
    there is any room left." clearly expresses that this is your personal
    opinion, and you advocate it becoming social reality. Compare this
    with "The road is not there to share. It is for cars. Footpaths are
    for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if there is any room
    left." which is obviously a statement of fact.

    I eagerly anticipate postal correspondance from you both regarding this
    matter,
    yours sincerely,
    Samuel Russell
    [address suppressed]

    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Sam Russell [email address suppressed]
    Date: 15-Jun-2006 12:52
    Subject: Miranda Devine's commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH
    To: [email hidden], [email hidden]

    Dear Miranda,

    Please work harder. Your theme was excellent. Unfortunately, your
    exposition was confused and relied on special pleading. We expect
    more of our conservative pundits: excellent rhetoric; clarity of
    expression; and, the development of strong argument across the course
    of an article.

    Additionally you are factually incorrect about the purpose of the
    roads. This must have arisen as you had insufficient time to read the
    Australian Road Rules, or the various items of NSW Traffic Legislation
    (all available from the RTA website). To help you print a correction
    on this point of fact I refer you to Australian Road Rules 11, 14, 15
    and 17 regarding who may use the road and how.

    I eagerly anticipate the publication of your correction on this matter
    of fact.

    yours,
    [contact details suppressed]

  2. To: SMH feedback, Miranda Devine
    BCC: Mediawatch
    Subject: Failure to respond to inquiry, repost: Miranda Devine's
    commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH

    Dear Readerlink, Dear Miranda,

    I draw your attention to my correspondance to M. Devine of last
    Thursday (included below as plain text). I eagerly awaited Miranda's
    article this week, sure in the knowledge that a respectable public
    intellectual would retract her factually incorrect statements at the
    earliest opportunity offered to her, and provide correct facts in
    their place. I was sorely disappointed.

    As I have received no correspondance from the SMH, or from Miranda, I
    am forced to ask the editors of the Herald:

    Are they in the business of paying public intellectuals who make
    mistakes of fact, fail to address their mistakes of fact, fail to
    correspond regarding mistakes of fact, and fail to retract their
    mistakes of fact? I have no issue with the Herald's selection of a
    wide variety of opinions: I greatly appreciate the breadth of scope of
    social and political opinion represented. I am disappointed regarding
    the assertion of facts untrue, especially by the premier paper of
    record in New South Wales. The Herald has a journalistic and social
    obligation to ensure that the matters of fact it prints are true.

    I would like to be reassured of the procedures the SMH takes to
    fulfill this obligation. What steps to the Editors take to ensure that
    the utterances of the commentators paid to fill the Commentary section
    are factually correct? What steps to the Editors take when statements
    are proved to be factually incorrect? What training to the Editors
    provide to commentators to make them aware of their obligations
    regarding facts (as seperate to opinion) when making public
    utterances? My current experience is a far cry from a year ago when I
    challenged an opinion piece writer to substantiate a fact: that
    writers editor assured me of the writers sources and kept regular
    correspondance with me regarding the issue.

    Miranda: it is disappointing to see your failure to correct this
    matter, or to provide adequate correspondance to me regarding it. I
    am afraid to suspect that rather than a matter of a lack of time (as
    original suggested below) that this may be a matter of a lack of
    competence. I hope the Editors can provide you with adequate training
    and couselling to help you through this difficult time. Perhaps the
    Editors could provide training in expressing matters of opinion, for
    example, "In my opinion, The road is not there to share. It is for
    cars. Footpaths are for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if
    there is any room left." clearly expresses that this is your personal
    opinion, and you advocate it becoming social reality. Compare this
    with "The road is not there to share. It is for cars. Footpaths are
    for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if there is any room
    left." which is obviously a statement of fact.

    I eagerly anticipate postal correspondance from you both regarding this
    matter,
    yours sincerely,
    Samuel Russell
    [address suppressed]

    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Sam Russell [email address suppressed]
    Date: 15-Jun-2006 12:52
    Subject: Miranda Devine's commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH
    To: [email hidden], [email hidden]

    Dear Miranda,

    Please work harder. Your theme was excellent. Unfortunately, your
    exposition was confused and relied on special pleading. We expect
    more of our conservative pundits: excellent rhetoric; clarity of
    expression; and, the development of strong argument across the course
    of an article.

    Additionally you are factually incorrect about the purpose of the
    roads. This must have arisen as you had insufficient time to read the
    Australian Road Rules, or the various items of NSW Traffic Legislation
    (all available from the RTA website). To help you print a correction
    on this point of fact I refer you to Australian Road Rules 11, 14, 15
    and 17 regarding who may use the road and how.

    I eagerly anticipate the publication of your correction on this matter
    of fact.

    yours,
    [contact details suppressed]

  3. Quoted message said:

    To: SMH feedback, Miranda Devine
    BCC: Mediawatch
    Subject: Failure to respond to inquiry, repost: Miranda Devine's
    commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH

    Dear Readerlink, Dear Miranda,

    I draw your attention to my correspondance to M. Devine of last
    Thursday (included below as plain text). I eagerly awaited Miranda's
    article this week, sure in the knowledge that a respectable public
    intellectual would retract her factually incorrect statements at the
    earliest opportunity offered to her, and provide correct facts in
    their place. I was sorely disappointed.

    As I have received no correspondance from the SMH, or from Miranda, I
    am forced to ask the editors of the Herald:

    Are they in the business of paying public intellectuals who make
    mistakes of fact, fail to address their mistakes of fact, fail to
    correspond regarding mistakes of fact, and fail to retract their
    mistakes of fact? I have no issue with the Herald's selection of a
    wide variety of opinions: I greatly appreciate the breadth of scope of
    social and political opinion represented. I am disappointed regarding
    the assertion of facts untrue, especially by the premier paper of
    record in New South Wales. The Herald has a journalistic and social
    obligation to ensure that the matters of fact it prints are true.

    I would like to be reassured of the procedures the SMH takes to
    fulfill this obligation. What steps to the Editors take to ensure that
    the utterances of the commentators paid to fill the Commentary section
    are factually correct? What steps to the Editors take when statements
    are proved to be factually incorrect? What training to the Editors
    provide to commentators to make them aware of their obligations
    regarding facts (as seperate to opinion) when making public
    utterances? My current experience is a far cry from a year ago when I
    challenged an opinion piece writer to substantiate a fact: that
    writers editor assured me of the writers sources and kept regular
    correspondance with me regarding the issue.

    Miranda: it is disappointing to see your failure to correct this
    matter, or to provide adequate correspondance to me regarding it. I
    am afraid to suspect that rather than a matter of a lack of time (as
    original suggested below) that this may be a matter of a lack of
    competence. I hope the Editors can provide you with adequate training
    and couselling to help you through this difficult time. Perhaps the
    Editors could provide training in expressing matters of opinion, for
    example, "In my opinion, The road is not there to share. It is for
    cars. Footpaths are for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if
    there is any room left." clearly expresses that this is your personal
    opinion, and you advocate it becoming social reality. Compare this
    with "The road is not there to share. It is for cars. Footpaths are
    for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if there is any room
    left." which is obviously a statement of fact.

    I eagerly anticipate postal correspondance from you both regarding this
    matter,
    yours sincerely,
    Samuel Russell
    [address suppressed]

    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Sam Russell [email address suppressed]
    Date: 15-Jun-2006 12:52
    Subject: Miranda Devine's commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH
    To: [email hidden], [email hidden]

    Dear Miranda,

    Please work harder. Your theme was excellent. Unfortunately, your
    exposition was confused and relied on special pleading. We expect
    more of our conservative pundits: excellent rhetoric; clarity of
    expression; and, the development of strong argument across the course
    of an article.

    Additionally you are factually incorrect about the purpose of the
    roads. This must have arisen as you had insufficient time to read the
    Australian Road Rules, or the various items of NSW Traffic Legislation
    (all available from the RTA website). To help you print a correction
    on this point of fact I refer you to Australian Road Rules 11, 14, 15
    and 17 regarding who may use the road and how.

    I eagerly anticipate the publication of your correction on this matter
    of fact.

    yours,
    [contact details suppressed]


    Pure class 🙂

    Karen

    --
    "I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
    - Slartibartfast

  4. Quoted message said:

    To: SMH feedback, Miranda Devine
    BCC: Mediawatch
    Subject: Failure to respond to inquiry, repost: Miranda Devine's
    commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH

    Dear Readerlink, Dear Miranda,

    I draw your attention to my correspondance to M. Devine of last
    Thursday (included below as plain text). I eagerly awaited Miranda's
    article this week, sure in the knowledge that a respectable public
    intellectual would retract her factually incorrect statements at the
    earliest opportunity offered to her, and provide correct facts in
    their place. I was sorely disappointed.

    As I have received no correspondance from the SMH, or from Miranda, I
    am forced to ask the editors of the Herald:

    Are they in the business of paying public intellectuals who make
    mistakes of fact, fail to address their mistakes of fact, fail to
    correspond regarding mistakes of fact, and fail to retract their
    mistakes of fact? I have no issue with the Herald's selection of a
    wide variety of opinions: I greatly appreciate the breadth of scope of
    social and political opinion represented. I am disappointed regarding
    the assertion of facts untrue, especially by the premier paper of
    record in New South Wales. The Herald has a journalistic and social
    obligation to ensure that the matters of fact it prints are true.

    I would like to be reassured of the procedures the SMH takes to
    fulfill this obligation. What steps to the Editors take to ensure that
    the utterances of the commentators paid to fill the Commentary section
    are factually correct? What steps to the Editors take when statements
    are proved to be factually incorrect? What training to the Editors
    provide to commentators to make them aware of their obligations
    regarding facts (as seperate to opinion) when making public
    utterances? My current experience is a far cry from a year ago when I
    challenged an opinion piece writer to substantiate a fact: that
    writers editor assured me of the writers sources and kept regular
    correspondance with me regarding the issue.

    Miranda: it is disappointing to see your failure to correct this
    matter, or to provide adequate correspondance to me regarding it. I
    am afraid to suspect that rather than a matter of a lack of time (as
    original suggested below) that this may be a matter of a lack of
    competence. I hope the Editors can provide you with adequate training
    and couselling to help you through this difficult time. Perhaps the
    Editors could provide training in expressing matters of opinion, for
    example, "In my opinion, The road is not there to share. It is for
    cars. Footpaths are for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if
    there is any room left." clearly expresses that this is your personal
    opinion, and you advocate it becoming social reality. Compare this
    with "The road is not there to share. It is for cars. Footpaths are
    for pedestrians. And bike paths are for bikes, if there is any room
    left." which is obviously a statement of fact.

    I eagerly anticipate postal correspondance from you both regarding this
    matter,
    yours sincerely,
    Samuel Russell
    [address suppressed]

    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Sam Russell [email address suppressed]
    Date: 15-Jun-2006 12:52
    Subject: Miranda Devine's commentary article, 15 June 2006, SMH
    To: [email hidden], [email hidden]

    Dear Miranda,

    Please work harder. Your theme was excellent. Unfortunately, your
    exposition was confused and relied on special pleading. We expect
    more of our conservative pundits: excellent rhetoric; clarity of
    expression; and, the development of strong argument across the course
    of an article.

    Additionally you are factually incorrect about the purpose of the
    roads. This must have arisen as you had insufficient time to read the
    Australian Road Rules, or the various items of NSW Traffic Legislation
    (all available from the RTA website). To help you print a correction
    on this point of fact I refer you to Australian Road Rules 11, 14, 15
    and 17 regarding who may use the road and how.

    I eagerly anticipate the publication of your correction on this matter
    of fact.

    yours,
    [contact details suppressed]


    Pure class 🙂

    Karen

    --
    "I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
    - Slartibartfast

  5. i've been following these threads on ms. devine with some gusto (everyones replies both to the forum and to the newspaper have been pure class!)

    methinks that ms. devine cant handle the fact that she made a large boo-boo, in a very big newspaper, and that people picked up on this and were very not happy.

    i think shes hiding, try checking the cleaners cupboard at the SMH 😄

  6. i've been following these threads on ms. devine with some gusto (everyones replies both to the forum and to the newspaper have been pure class!)

    methinks that ms. devine cant handle the fact that she made a large boo-boo, in a very big newspaper, and that people picked up on this and were very not happy.

    i think shes hiding, try checking the cleaners cupboard at the SMH 😄

  7. She wrote a piece about Liberal preselection in a NSW electorate in her
    last column, seemed almost intelligent, maybe she got Paddy McGuiness to do
    the anti cyclist one.
    fb

    "asterope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    i've been following these threads on ms. devine with some gusto
    (everyones replies both to the forum and to the newspaper have been
    pure class!)

    methinks that ms. devine cant handle the fact that she made a large
    boo-boo, in a very big newspaper, and that people picked up on this and
    were very not happy.

    i think shes hiding, try checking the cleaners cupboard at the SMH 😄

    --
    asterope

  8. Fractal said:

    She wrote a piece about Liberal preselection in a NSW electorate in her
    last column, seemed almost intelligent, maybe she got Paddy McGuiness to do
    the anti cyclist one.

    She neglected to mention that Marionite Christians were the people involved
    in the branch stacking exercise in the Cherrybrook branch, because that
    didn't suit her argument. She also down plays Smiths conservative religious
    veiws, which many in the Epping Electorate don't like.

    But it was a reasonable article, like most of hers.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    methinks that ms. devine cant handle the fact that she made a large
    boo-boo, in a very big newspaper, and that people picked up on this and
    were very not happy.

    She didn't make a mistake, she stated an opinion that bikes shouldn't be
    one the road. She never argued it as a legal point that they have no right
    to be there under law.

    She won't be worried in the slightest.

    If you put the point in a brief and interesting bit, the letter editors
    would love to publish it.

    dewatf.

  9. "dewatf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Fractal said:

    She wrote a piece about Liberal preselection in a NSW electorate in her
    last column, seemed almost intelligent, maybe she got Paddy McGuiness to
    do
    the anti cyclist one.

    She neglected to mention that Marionite Christians were the people
    involved
    in the branch stacking exercise in the Cherrybrook branch, because that
    didn't suit her argument. She also down plays Smiths conservative
    religious
    veiws, which many in the Epping Electorate don't like.

    But it was a reasonable article, like most of hers.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    methinks that ms. devine cant handle the fact that she made a large
    boo-boo, in a very big newspaper, and that people picked up on this and
    were very not happy.

    She didn't make a mistake, she stated an opinion that bikes shouldn't be
    one the road. She never argued it as a legal point that they have no right
    to be there under law.

    She won't be worried in the slightest.

    If you put the point in a brief and interesting bit, the letter editors
    would love to publish it.

    dewatf.

    Actually, one of the main problems most of us here had with the article
    (Have you been paying attention? There will be a test later.) was that she
    didn't offer opinions. She held forth utter bollox as irrefutable fact.

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