Determining Lactate Threshold HR (LTHR)?

Quoted message said:

Since I live near the Laurel Highlands of
Pennsylvania,

Jim--

Since you live near Pittsburgh, did you know that UPMC recently opened their
Cycling Performance Services center where, for a fee of $50-$400 they'll do
tests to determine that rate & other factors? Here's a link to the article
about it that was in the Post-Gazette:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04195/345377.stm

In article <[email hidden]>, Jim A

Quoted message said:

As recommended by Joe Friel (among many others), I attempt to conduct
physiological tests several times throughout the training calendar....

Quoted message said:

Occasionally, I'll use a crit as an interval session.
Consequently, depending upon a given effort, my HR will fall somewhere
between 150-180bpm. During a rare attempt at a prime- or field sprint,
I will hit my MaxHR of 192. Although I'm suffering during the entire
race, my average HR is about 172bpm

Your training ride LTHR is probably 5-8bpm lower than this if you were
to remove the affects of racing-induced adrenalin.

Quoted message said:

Another method that has been suggested is to use my average HR on a
long hard climb. ... Again, my average HR will
be about 172-175bpm (usually at the lower end on a later climb,
ironically). And again, 172bpm is about where I feel the need to back
off.

Again, your training LTHR (on the flat) is probably 4-6 bpm lower
because you're using your upper body, etc. on the climb and this will
also raise your HR.

Based on your two measurements it sounds like something around 168bpm
will be close enough. Remember that your daily HR at LT will vary
slightly because of fatigue, heat, humidity, duration of the training
session, etc.

-WG

"Jim A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| As recommended by Joe Friel (among many others), I attempt to conduct
| physiological tests several times throughout the training calendar.
| One of the measures I have difficulty determining, in particular, is
| lactate threshold heart rate. Since I don't have access to expensive
| lab facilities or equipment to measure power output, the best method I
| have available is a 30-minute TT (while marking HR and PE). In
| general, the method suggests riding at the highest sustainable HR for
| about 30 minutes. Supposedly, the average HR achieved over last 20
| minutes is a good estimate of your LTHR. Admittedly, I have relatively
| weak anaerobic endurance so I'm not a very good time-trialer.
| Therefore, don't compete in any TT events. Its brand of suffering just
| isn't any fun for me. So I usually attempt this test without the
| motivation of competition. Consequently, 158-160 bpm is the highest
| average HR I can seem to achieve. However, this result doesn't seem to
| agree with a couple other methods that have been suggested to me.
|
| One method is to use the results of an in-race criterium. Naturally, a
| criterium requires varying degrees of intensity, depending upon
| whether I'm pulling, bridging a gap, sitting-in, or recovering off the
| back. Occasionally, I'll use a crit as an interval session.
| Consequently, depending upon a given effort, my HR will fall somewhere
| between 150-180bpm. During a rare attempt at a prime- or field sprint,
| I will hit my MaxHR of 192. Although I'm suffering during the entire
| race, my average HR is about 172bpm (depending on a number of
| variables) and it is also about where I begin feel a sudden
| accumulation of lactate (intense quad pain) and feel the physiological
| trigger to back off. My average cadence is about 90-95rpm. I usually
| warm up for about 20-30 minutes of moderate spinning before the race.
| Since I usually use crits as a training session, I usually finish
| somewhere in the middle of a 35-40 man pack.
|
| Another method that has been suggested is to use my average HR on a
| long hard climb. Since I live near the Laurel Highlands of
| Pennsylvania, there are plenty of routes that consist of 2-3 mile
| climbs with varying grades of slope (sometimes as much as 20%). The
| average gradient is 8-10% on most climbs lasting about 15-25 minutes.
| I frequently alternate between sitting and climbing out of the saddle.
| My average cadence is about 65-70rpm. I usually hit one of these
| climbs during the course of a 3-hour endurance ride, so I'm pretty
| well warmed up (if not reaching exhaustion). Again, my average HR will
| be about 172-175bpm (usually at the lower end on a later climb,
| ironically). And again, 172bpm is about where I feel the need to back
| off.
|
| My question is which result I can trust as a good estimate of my LTHR?

I recently did a VO2 Max test at a local college.

http://personal1.stthomas.edu/dgcarey/

If I recall the exact statistic, of approx. 99% of those tested there, LT
occurrs within +/-1% of 85% HR max.....

ED3

"Jim A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| As recommended by Joe Friel (among many others), I attempt to conduct
| physiological tests several times throughout the training calendar.
| One of the measures I have difficulty determining, in particular, is
| lactate threshold heart rate. Since I don't have access to expensive
| lab facilities or equipment to measure power output, the best method I
| have available is a 30-minute TT (while marking HR and PE). In
| general, the method suggests riding at the highest sustainable HR for
| about 30 minutes. Supposedly, the average HR achieved over last 20
| minutes is a good estimate of your LTHR. Admittedly, I have relatively
| weak anaerobic endurance so I'm not a very good time-trialer.
| Therefore, don't compete in any TT events. Its brand of suffering just
| isn't any fun for me. So I usually attempt this test without the
| motivation of competition. Consequently, 158-160 bpm is the highest
| average HR I can seem to achieve. However, this result doesn't seem to
| agree with a couple other methods that have been suggested to me.
|
| One method is to use the results of an in-race criterium. Naturally, a
| criterium requires varying degrees of intensity, depending upon
| whether I'm pulling, bridging a gap, sitting-in, or recovering off the
| back. Occasionally, I'll use a crit as an interval session.
| Consequently, depending upon a given effort, my HR will fall somewhere
| between 150-180bpm. During a rare attempt at a prime- or field sprint,
| I will hit my MaxHR of 192. Although I'm suffering during the entire
| race, my average HR is about 172bpm (depending on a number of
| variables) and it is also about where I begin feel a sudden
| accumulation of lactate (intense quad pain) and feel the physiological
| trigger to back off. My average cadence is about 90-95rpm. I usually
| warm up for about 20-30 minutes of moderate spinning before the race.
| Since I usually use crits as a training session, I usually finish
| somewhere in the middle of a 35-40 man pack.
|
| Another method that has been suggested is to use my average HR on a
| long hard climb. Since I live near the Laurel Highlands of
| Pennsylvania, there are plenty of routes that consist of 2-3 mile
| climbs with varying grades of slope (sometimes as much as 20%). The
| average gradient is 8-10% on most climbs lasting about 15-25 minutes.
| I frequently alternate between sitting and climbing out of the saddle.
| My average cadence is about 65-70rpm. I usually hit one of these
| climbs during the course of a 3-hour endurance ride, so I'm pretty
| well warmed up (if not reaching exhaustion). Again, my average HR will
| be about 172-175bpm (usually at the lower end on a later climb,
| ironically). And again, 172bpm is about where I feel the need to back
| off.
|
| My question is which result I can trust as a good estimate of my LTHR?

I recently did a VO2 Max test at a local college.

http://personal1.stthomas.edu/dgcarey/

If I recall the exact statistic, of approx. 99% of those tested there, LT
occurrs within +/-1% of 85% HR max.....

ED3

JT:

Yes, I'm aware of the innovative and exciting work UPMC is doing. I
happend to attend their open house this past July. Unfortunately,
their fees aren't something I can afford 2 or 3 times a year. But it
might behoove me to invest a little $$ in my own training, at least at
the beginning of my Build 1 phase.

Thanks for the reply.

Jim

[email hidden] (JTHouse) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since I live near the Laurel Highlands of
Pennsylvania,

Jim--

Since you live near Pittsburgh, did you know that UPMC recently opened their
Cycling Performance Services center where, for a fee of $50-$400 they'll do
tests to determine that rate & other factors? Here's a link to the article
about it that was in the Post-Gazette:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04195/345377.stm

Warren,

This is quite helpful. Thanks.

Jim

warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Jim A

Quoted message said:

As recommended by Joe Friel (among many others), I attempt to conduct
physiological tests several times throughout the training calendar....

Quoted message said:

Occasionally, I'll use a crit as an interval session.
Consequently, depending upon a given effort, my HR will fall somewhere
between 150-180bpm. During a rare attempt at a prime- or field sprint,
I will hit my MaxHR of 192. Although I'm suffering during the entire
race, my average HR is about 172bpm

Your training ride LTHR is probably 5-8bpm lower than this if you were
to remove the affects of racing-induced adrenalin.

Quoted message said:

Another method that has been suggested is to use my average HR on a
long hard climb. ... Again, my average HR will
be about 172-175bpm (usually at the lower end on a later climb,
ironically). And again, 172bpm is about where I feel the need to back
off.

Again, your training LTHR (on the flat) is probably 4-6 bpm lower
because you're using your upper body, etc. on the climb and this will
also raise your HR.

Based on your two measurements it sounds like something around 168bpm
will be close enough. Remember that your daily HR at LT will vary
slightly because of fatigue, heat, humidity, duration of the training
session, etc.

-WG

(Jim A) said:

Yes, I'm aware of the innovative and exciting work UPMC is doing. I
happend to attend their open house this past July. Unfortunately,
their fees aren't something I can afford 2 or 3 times a year. But it
might behoove me to invest a little $$ in my own training, at least at
the beginning of my Build 1 phase.

It might be worth doing the test once and the next day doing a simple
test of your own at home -- a ramp test on your trainer. Then you'll
have some data from your home test that correlates with the
professional test and you can run the ramp test whenever you want.

JT

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John,

That's a pretty good idea. Thanks.

jla

John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Jim A) said:

Yes, I'm aware of the innovative and exciting work UPMC is doing. I
happend to attend their open house this past July. Unfortunately,
their fees aren't something I can afford 2 or 3 times a year. But it
might behoove me to invest a little $$ in my own training, at least at
the beginning of my Build 1 phase.

It might be worth doing the test once and the next day doing a simple
test of your own at home -- a ramp test on your trainer. Then you'll
have some data from your home test that correlates with the
professional test and you can run the ramp test whenever you want.

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Ed,

Thanks for that stat.

jla

"Edward Dike, III" <edd(2+1)[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Jim A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| As recommended by Joe Friel (among many others), I attempt to conduct
| physiological tests several times throughout the training calendar.
| One of the measures I have difficulty determining, in particular, is
| lactate threshold heart rate. Since I don't have access to expensive
| lab facilities or equipment to measure power output, the best method I
| have available is a 30-minute TT (while marking HR and PE). In
| general, the method suggests riding at the highest sustainable HR for
| about 30 minutes. Supposedly, the average HR achieved over last 20
| minutes is a good estimate of your LTHR. Admittedly, I have relatively
| weak anaerobic endurance so I'm not a very good time-trialer.
| Therefore, don't compete in any TT events. Its brand of suffering just
| isn't any fun for me. So I usually attempt this test without the
| motivation of competition. Consequently, 158-160 bpm is the highest
| average HR I can seem to achieve. However, this result doesn't seem to
| agree with a couple other methods that have been suggested to me.
|
| One method is to use the results of an in-race criterium. Naturally, a
| criterium requires varying degrees of intensity, depending upon
| whether I'm pulling, bridging a gap, sitting-in, or recovering off the
| back. Occasionally, I'll use a crit as an interval session.
| Consequently, depending upon a given effort, my HR will fall somewhere
| between 150-180bpm. During a rare attempt at a prime- or field sprint,
| I will hit my MaxHR of 192. Although I'm suffering during the entire
| race, my average HR is about 172bpm (depending on a number of
| variables) and it is also about where I begin feel a sudden
| accumulation of lactate (intense quad pain) and feel the physiological
| trigger to back off. My average cadence is about 90-95rpm. I usually
| warm up for about 20-30 minutes of moderate spinning before the race.
| Since I usually use crits as a training session, I usually finish
| somewhere in the middle of a 35-40 man pack.
|
| Another method that has been suggested is to use my average HR on a
| long hard climb. Since I live near the Laurel Highlands of
| Pennsylvania, there are plenty of routes that consist of 2-3 mile
| climbs with varying grades of slope (sometimes as much as 20%). The
| average gradient is 8-10% on most climbs lasting about 15-25 minutes.
| I frequently alternate between sitting and climbing out of the saddle.
| My average cadence is about 65-70rpm. I usually hit one of these
| climbs during the course of a 3-hour endurance ride, so I'm pretty
| well warmed up (if not reaching exhaustion). Again, my average HR will
| be about 172-175bpm (usually at the lower end on a later climb,
| ironically). And again, 172bpm is about where I feel the need to back
| off.
|
| My question is which result I can trust as a good estimate of my LTHR?

I recently did a VO2 Max test at a local college.

http://personal1.stthomas.edu/dgcarey/

If I recall the exact statistic, of approx. 99% of those tested there, LT
occurrs within +/-1% of 85% HR max.....

ED3