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Demi-Glace

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
1 August 2005
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4 August 2005
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Daisy
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  1. There was discussion recently concerning demi-glace. If it helps I
    can only say I have made my own from scratch for years. Yes, it takes
    a lot of stove and attendance time, and washing of greasy roasting
    dishes and pots, but it is NOT difficult. I make mine from a very
    good French recipe, but replace the brandy requirement with dry sherry
    and red wine (a 750ml bottle of brandy is just TOO expensive!)

    You don't need exact quantities of anything really, so use about 3-
    4lbs of good beef or veal bones cut into 4-5 inch segments, and
    preferably with some meat attached. If not, use a pound or so of veal
    braising steak or beef cut into large chunks.

    The essential thing about demi-glace is getting the colour right
    first. I brown the bones and meat well in beef dripping, and also the
    cut-up vegetables - particularly the onions - cut side down and really
    blackened. You can use any well-flavoured roasting vegetables,
    parsnips, carrots, turnips and celery including leaves, and the white
    part of leeks. Dont bother to peel the vegetables, just trim them.
    Use your commonsense about the ratio of vegetables to meat. A good
    rule of thumb is 1 large carrot, 2 large onions, 1 large parsnip, 2
    medium turnips, 1 large leek (white part only) to the above
    bones/meat quantity. I use the onion skins as well.

    When all of the above are well browned, add to a large stockpot (about
    12-14 litres) and fill with cold water. Bring to the boil, and now
    add 1 drained can of peeled roma tomatoes, a dozen or so medium
    mushrooms, 2 bay leaves, a small bunch parsley, a couple of sprigs of
    thyme and 4-6 cloves garlic. Reduce to a very very slow simmer -
    the liquid should only just be showing a tiny bubble or two in the
    middle. Do NOT put a lid on the pot, but simmer like this overnight
    (or at least 12 hours). This slow simmer is essential to extract
    the marrow from the bones and enhance the flavour generally.

    (I like to do all the roasting work late in the afternoon so the stock
    simmers all night.)

    After 12 hours - or next morning, turn off the heat, leave an hour or
    so and then strain off all the bones and vegetables, and replace the
    liquid in the cleaned pot. This ia a messy greasy business requiring
    the use of two or three other containers. Once you have done this,
    cool and chill so that the remaining fat comes to the top. (I put it
    in the freezer for an hour or so). Skim off all the fat and put on
    thigh heat, add about 600-700ml of dry sherry and red wine
    (three-quarters sherry to quarter wine). Add a dessertspoon of dark
    miso - or 2-3 concentrated beef stock cubes.

    Bring to the boil, skimming off any remaining residues and grease.
    Boil relatively fast to reduce the mixture to half or less.

    Now strain the mixture into another clean pot through a muslin-lined
    sieve, and boil, stirring frequently until the mixture reduces and
    becomes thick. You may like to add some cornstarch and water (a
    slurry) to make it even thicker or walnut size pieces of beurre blanc
    (butter and flour together).

    Add salt and pepper to taste.

    This demi glace can be refrigerated in small jars for months - or you
    can freeze if this is more convenient.

    Quick Housewife Demi Glace. (Another French one.)

    Saute 2 tbsp each chopped onion, ham or bacon, carrots, celery,
    mushrooms, in butter until browned.
    Add 4 tsp flour, cook and mix.
    Add 2 cups strong stock, half a cup of dry sherry, salt, and
    freshly-ground black pepper, 1 bayleaf, a few sprigs of thyme and
    parsley, and a small tsp dark miso or a crumbled beef stock cube.

    Reduce to half the original quanity and strain.

    The quick version works well if you have either run out, or simply
    don't want to make the original very time-consuming version.

    But believe me, the effort of real demi-glace is worth it. You will
    really impress your guests, your partner (or spouse) and this sauce
    can be converted into madeira sauce by the addition of madeira to
    taste.

    I have a couple of days "in the kitchen" about every two months or so,
    and make lots of freezable or refrigeratable stocks and other cooking
    supplies (quiche flans to freeze, cakes to freeze, and chicken stock
    and demi-glace. (Bring a small TV into the kitchen if you don't
    already have one there, sit down for half an hour every couple of
    hours, and the time will just fly!)

    Cheers

    Daisy

    Carthage demands an explanation for this insolence!

  2. "Daisy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    There was discussion recently concerning demi-glace. If it helps I
    can only say I have made my own from scratch for years. Yes, it takes
    a lot of stove and attendance time, and washing of greasy roasting
    dishes and pots, but it is NOT difficult. I make mine from a very
    good French recipe, but replace the brandy requirement with dry sherry
    and red wine (a 750ml bottle of brandy is just TOO expensive!)

    You don't need exact quantities of anything really, so use about 3-
    4lbs of good beef or veal bones cut into 4-5 inch segments, and
    preferably with some meat attached. If not, use a pound or so of veal
    braising steak or beef cut into large chunks.

    The essential thing about demi-glace is getting the colour right
    first. I brown the bones and meat well in beef dripping, and also the
    cut-up vegetables - particularly the onions - cut side down and really
    blackened. You can use any well-flavoured roasting vegetables,
    parsnips, carrots, turnips and celery including leaves, and the white
    part of leeks. Dont bother to peel the vegetables, just trim them.
    Use your commonsense about the ratio of vegetables to meat. A good
    rule of thumb is 1 large carrot, 2 large onions, 1 large parsnip, 2
    medium turnips, 1 large leek (white part only) to the above
    bones/meat quantity. I use the onion skins as well.

    When all of the above are well browned, add to a large stockpot (about
    12-14 litres) and fill with cold water. Bring to the boil, and now
    add 1 drained can of peeled roma tomatoes, a dozen or so medium
    mushrooms, 2 bay leaves, a small bunch parsley, a couple of sprigs of
    thyme and 4-6 cloves garlic. Reduce to a very very slow simmer -
    the liquid should only just be showing a tiny bubble or two in the
    middle. Do NOT put a lid on the pot, but simmer like this overnight
    (or at least 12 hours). This slow simmer is essential to extract
    the marrow from the bones and enhance the flavour generally.

    (I like to do all the roasting work late in the afternoon so the stock
    simmers all night.)

    After 12 hours - or next morning, turn off the heat, leave an hour or
    so and then strain off all the bones and vegetables, and replace the
    liquid in the cleaned pot. This ia a messy greasy business requiring
    the use of two or three other containers. Once you have done this,
    cool and chill so that the remaining fat comes to the top. (I put it
    in the freezer for an hour or so). Skim off all the fat and put on
    thigh heat, add about 600-700ml of dry sherry and red wine
    (three-quarters sherry to quarter wine). Add a dessertspoon of dark
    miso - or 2-3 concentrated beef stock cubes.

    Bring to the boil, skimming off any remaining residues and grease.
    Boil relatively fast to reduce the mixture to half or less.

    Now strain the mixture into another clean pot through a muslin-lined
    sieve, and boil, stirring frequently until the mixture reduces and
    becomes thick. You may like to add some cornstarch and water (a
    slurry) to make it even thicker or walnut size pieces of beurre blanc
    (butter and flour together).

    Add salt and pepper to taste.

    This demi glace can be refrigerated in small jars for months - or you
    can freeze if this is more convenient.

    Quick Housewife Demi Glace. (Another French one.)

    Saute 2 tbsp each chopped onion, ham or bacon, carrots, celery,
    mushrooms, in butter until browned.
    Add 4 tsp flour, cook and mix.
    Add 2 cups strong stock, half a cup of dry sherry, salt, and
    freshly-ground black pepper, 1 bayleaf, a few sprigs of thyme and
    parsley, and a small tsp dark miso or a crumbled beef stock cube.

    Reduce to half the original quanity and strain.

    The quick version works well if you have either run out, or simply
    don't want to make the original very time-consuming version.

    But believe me, the effort of real demi-glace is worth it. You will
    really impress your guests, your partner (or spouse) and this sauce
    can be converted into madeira sauce by the addition of madeira to
    taste.

    I have a couple of days "in the kitchen" about every two months or so,
    and make lots of freezable or refrigeratable stocks and other cooking
    supplies (quiche flans to freeze, cakes to freeze, and chicken stock
    and demi-glace. (Bring a small TV into the kitchen if you don't
    already have one there, sit down for half an hour every couple of
    hours, and the time will just fly!)

    Cheers

    Daisy

    Carthage demands an explanation for this insolence!

    Having sat on the ruins of Carthage, staring at the Mediteranian, thinking
    about the meaning of life, this momentary Carthaginian is proud to be in
    your presence.

    A great recipe Daisy!

  3. Daisy said:

    There was discussion recently concerning demi-glace. If it helps I
    can only say I have made my own from scratch for years.

    Actually, these are not demi-glace. They're reductions pumped up with
    miso or beef cubes. That's not from scratch. That's from convenience
    foods. It's "semi-homemade." The quick one at least has the presence of
    a roux to give texture and opacity. The long one has no such benefit.

    A "real" demi-glace is an Espagnol sauce (q.v.) combined with an equal
    amount of beef stock and reduced to half. Anything else may well taste
    good and look nice, but it's a misapplication of the name. I don't
    really care who says that a reduction is demi-glace; it ain't. It's a
    reduction.

    Pastorio

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, it takes
    a lot of stove and attendance time, and washing of greasy roasting
    dishes and pots, but it is NOT difficult. I make mine from a very
    good French recipe, but replace the brandy requirement with dry sherry
    and red wine (a 750ml bottle of brandy is just TOO expensive!)

    You don't need exact quantities of anything really, so use about 3-
    4lbs of good beef or veal bones cut into 4-5 inch segments, and
    preferably with some meat attached. If not, use a pound or so of veal
    braising steak or beef cut into large chunks.

    The essential thing about demi-glace is getting the colour right
    first. I brown the bones and meat well in beef dripping, and also the
    cut-up vegetables - particularly the onions - cut side down and really
    blackened. You can use any well-flavoured roasting vegetables,
    parsnips, carrots, turnips and celery including leaves, and the white
    part of leeks. Dont bother to peel the vegetables, just trim them.
    Use your commonsense about the ratio of vegetables to meat. A good
    rule of thumb is 1 large carrot, 2 large onions, 1 large parsnip, 2
    medium turnips, 1 large leek (white part only) to the above
    bones/meat quantity. I use the onion skins as well.

    When all of the above are well browned, add to a large stockpot (about
    12-14 litres) and fill with cold water. Bring to the boil, and now
    add 1 drained can of peeled roma tomatoes, a dozen or so medium
    mushrooms, 2 bay leaves, a small bunch parsley, a couple of sprigs of
    thyme and 4-6 cloves garlic. Reduce to a very very slow simmer -
    the liquid should only just be showing a tiny bubble or two in the
    middle. Do NOT put a lid on the pot, but simmer like this overnight
    (or at least 12 hours). This slow simmer is essential to extract
    the marrow from the bones and enhance the flavour generally.

    (I like to do all the roasting work late in the afternoon so the stock
    simmers all night.)

    After 12 hours - or next morning, turn off the heat, leave an hour or
    so and then strain off all the bones and vegetables, and replace the
    liquid in the cleaned pot. This ia a messy greasy business requiring
    the use of two or three other containers. Once you have done this,
    cool and chill so that the remaining fat comes to the top. (I put it
    in the freezer for an hour or so). Skim off all the fat and put on
    thigh heat, add about 600-700ml of dry sherry and red wine
    (three-quarters sherry to quarter wine). Add a dessertspoon of dark
    miso - or 2-3 concentrated beef stock cubes.

    Bring to the boil, skimming off any remaining residues and grease.
    Boil relatively fast to reduce the mixture to half or less.

    Now strain the mixture into another clean pot through a muslin-lined
    sieve, and boil, stirring frequently until the mixture reduces and
    becomes thick. You may like to add some cornstarch and water (a
    slurry) to make it even thicker or walnut size pieces of beurre blanc
    (butter and flour together).

    Add salt and pepper to taste.

    This demi glace can be refrigerated in small jars for months - or you
    can freeze if this is more convenient.

    Quick Housewife Demi Glace. (Another French one.)

    Saute 2 tbsp each chopped onion, ham or bacon, carrots, celery,
    mushrooms, in butter until browned.
    Add 4 tsp flour, cook and mix.
    Add 2 cups strong stock, half a cup of dry sherry, salt, and
    freshly-ground black pepper, 1 bayleaf, a few sprigs of thyme and
    parsley, and a small tsp dark miso or a crumbled beef stock cube.

    Reduce to half the original quanity and strain.

    The quick version works well if you have either run out, or simply
    don't want to make the original very time-consuming version.

    But believe me, the effort of real demi-glace is worth it. You will
    really impress your guests, your partner (or spouse) and this sauce
    can be converted into madeira sauce by the addition of madeira to
    taste.

    I have a couple of days "in the kitchen" about every two months or so,
    and make lots of freezable or refrigeratable stocks and other cooking
    supplies (quiche flans to freeze, cakes to freeze, and chicken stock
    and demi-glace. (Bring a small TV into the kitchen if you don't
    already have one there, sit down for half an hour every couple of
    hours, and the time will just fly!)

    Cheers

    Daisy

    Carthage demands an explanation for this insolence!

  4. Bob (this one) said:

    A "real" demi-glace is an Espagnol sauce (q.v.) combined with an equal
    amount of beef stock and reduced to half. Anything else may well taste
    good and look nice, but it's a misapplication of the name. I don't
    really care who says that a reduction is demi-glace; it ain't. It's a
    reduction.

    Demi-glace is indeed espagnole combined with stock and then reduced
    by half. The question is: why not just make the espagnole sauce with
    a very strong, reduced stock in the first place, making the last
    combination/reduction step unnecessary? Is it ever done this way in
    restaurants? It seems like it might streamline things a bit.

    As you would be the guy to know, I thought I'd ask.

    --
    Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

  5. I am in awe of anyone who would even try to make demi glace.
    I would also be tempted to question his or her sanity
    (my own lack thereof being unquestionble
    I DO know, however, that beurre blanc is not butter and flour -
    that is beurre manie, I believe.
    Lynn from Fargo
    whose French is tres rusty ;-)

  6. Daisy said:

    There was discussion recently concerning demi-glace. If it helps I
    can only say I have made my own from scratch for years.

    I'm sure what you prepare tastes fine but it is not demi-glace, in fact
    it's not any kind of sauce, your recipe more closely resembles a rich
    soup.

    Go here: http://www.ochef.com/466.htm

    Sheldon

  7. Lynn from Fargo said:

    I am in awe of anyone who would even try to make demi glace.
    I would also be tempted to question his or her sanity
    (my own lack thereof being unquestionble

    It seems more complicated than it actually is. It takes a lot of stove
    time but not much work time.

    Quoted message said:

    I DO know, however, that beurre blanc is not butter and flour -
    that is beurre manie, I believe.

    Exactly so.

    Pastorio

  8. Reg said:
    Bob (this one) said:

    A "real" demi-glace is an Espagnol sauce (q.v.) combined with an equal
    amount of beef stock and reduced to half. Anything else may well taste
    good and look nice, but it's a misapplication of the name. I don't
    really care who says that a reduction is demi-glace; it ain't. It's a
    reduction.

    Demi-glace is indeed espagnole combined with stock and then reduced
    by half. The question is: why not just make the espagnole sauce with
    a very strong, reduced stock in the first place, making the last
    combination/reduction step unnecessary?

    It won't be Espagnole sauce then. And it won't have the flavor and
    textural characteristics of either Espagnole or demi-glace at the finish.

    Part of the point of the long reduction is to get the very last bits of
    protein (scum) out of the sauce and stock. To render them cleaner and
    more subtle than either separately. I've messed with the basic idea and
    never found anything that improves it or even keeps it as good.

    Quoted message said:

    Is it ever done this way in
    restaurants? It seems like it might streamline things a bit.

    Demi is exactly not about streamlining. If you're making it, the classic
    way is really better. Truly. I've tasted modern efforts to make
    reductions and other alterations for the sake of a more abbreviated
    technique. It doesn't produce a finish of the same quality.

    Of course, there are other sauces that are good. Of course modern
    reductions instead of classic sauces can be wonderful additions to
    dishes. But demi is unique.

    It may be being done in some restaurants somewhere, I just don't know of
    any.

    Pastorio

  9. Daisy said:


    There was discussion recently concerning demi-glace. If it helps I
    can only say I have made my own from scratch for years. Yes, it takes
    a lot of stove and attendance time, and washing of greasy roasting
    dishes and pots, but it is NOT difficult. I make mine from a very
    good French recipe, but replace the brandy requirement with dry sherry
    and red wine (a 750ml bottle of brandy is just TOO expensive!)

    <snip recipe>
    Daisy

    Here is an easier French demi-glace from Jacques Pepin (recipe
    paraphrased):

    10 pounds bones (one-third veal, one-third chicken, one-third beef) cut
    into 2-inch pieces
    1 pound carrots, washed but unpeeled, cut into one-inch chunks
    1 1/2 pounds unpeeled onions, cut into one-inch pieces
    1 1/2 pounds ripe tomatoes coarsely chopped
    1 large leek cut in half
    3 celery ribs cut in pieces
    2 bay leaves
    1/2 tsp thyme leaves
    1/2 tsp black peppercorns
    (no salt!)

    Roast the bones in a large roasting pan at 425 F for 1 1/2 hours turning
    the bones once halfway through. Add carrots and onions and cook for
    another half hour.

    Remove the bones and vegetables and transfer to a large stock pot,
    leaving the fat in the roasting pan. Pour off the fat.

    Add water to the roasting pan, bring to the boil on top of the stove and
    scrape up all the solidified juices.

    Add the liquid to the kettle and fill with water. Bring slowly to a boil
    then simmer for one hour, removing any scum. Add the remaining
    vegetables and seasoningsand bring to a boil again. Simmer slowly for 10
    hours or overnight, adding water as necessary.

    Strain through a fine strainer. Return to a clean pot and boil down
    until reduced to three quarts.. Let the stock cool overnight and remove
    the solidified fat on top.

    Reduce the stock by half, cool and divide into chunks about one cup
    each. Can be wrapped and frozen.

  10. Lynn from Fargo said:


    I am in awe of anyone who would even try to make demi glace.
    I would also be tempted to question his or her sanity
    (my own lack thereof being unquestionble
    I DO know, however, that beurre blanc is not butter and flour -
    that is beurre manie, I believe.
    Lynn from Fargo
    whose French is tres rusty ;-)

    French demi-glace is quite easy; just time consuming. Other versions
    might be more complicated but who needs that.
    See Jacques Pepin's recipe I posted. Not hard at all once one has the
    ingredients to hand.

  11. Arri London said:
    Daisy said:


    There was discussion recently concerning demi-glace. If it helps I
    can only say I have made my own from scratch for years. Yes, it takes
    a lot of stove and attendance time, and washing of greasy roasting
    dishes and pots, but it is NOT difficult. I make mine from a very
    good French recipe, but replace the brandy requirement with dry sherry
    and red wine (a 750ml bottle of brandy is just TOO expensive!)

    <snip recipe>
    Daisy

    Here is an easier French demi-glace from Jacques Pepin (recipe
    paraphrased):

    10 pounds bones (one-third veal, one-third chicken, one-third beef) cut
    into 2-inch pieces
    1 pound carrots, washed but unpeeled, cut into one-inch chunks
    1 1/2 pounds unpeeled onions, cut into one-inch pieces
    1 1/2 pounds ripe tomatoes coarsely chopped
    1 large leek cut in half
    3 celery ribs cut in pieces
    2 bay leaves
    1/2 tsp thyme leaves
    1/2 tsp black peppercorns
    (no salt!)

    Roast the bones in a large roasting pan at 425 F for 1 1/2 hours turning
    the bones once halfway through. Add carrots and onions and cook for
    another half hour.

    Remove the bones and vegetables and transfer to a large stock pot,
    leaving the fat in the roasting pan. Pour off the fat.

    Add water to the roasting pan, bring to the boil on top of the stove and
    scrape up all the solidified juices.

    Add the liquid to the kettle and fill with water. Bring slowly to a boil
    then simmer for one hour, removing any scum. Add the remaining
    vegetables and seasoningsand bring to a boil again. Simmer slowly for 10
    hours or overnight, adding water as necessary.

    Strain through a fine strainer. Return to a clean pot and boil down
    until reduced to three quarts.. Let the stock cool overnight and remove
    the solidified fat on top.

    Reduce the stock by half, cool and divide into chunks about one cup
    each. Can be wrapped and frozen.

    That's not even close to demi-glace. It's not even brown sauce
    (espagnole). That is simply stock, and with parts of different animals
    (ie. beef and fowl) a fercocktah stock, ie. garbage, ie. POW swill.

    You probably haven't figured it out but Jacques Pepin ain't much of an
    actual cook, he's essentially a foodtv personality is all... even his
    accent is totally fake.

    Sheldon

  12. Sheldon said:


    You probably haven't figured it out but Jacques Pepin ain't much of an
    actual cook, he's essentially a foodtv personality is all... even his
    accent is totally fake.

    If anyone feels inclined to take this comment seriously (which I
    doubt), just take a look at either "La Téchnique" or "La Méthode,"
    books on French cuisine he wrote in the '70's. -aem

  13. So many interesting responses - from the helpful and correcting (Bob,
    Lynn) to the downright gratuitous and rude (Sheldon). First, my
    apologies for using the wrong French term for a butter/flour
    combination (beurre manie). My Escoffier book on stocks, sauces and
    garnishes happened to be open at the Beurre Blanc sayce page and it
    was merely an accident.

    A number of highly respected chefs and cooks offer recipes for a Demi
    Glace which experienced experts in this field (some of whom have
    actually responded to my post!) simply regard as nothing more than a
    tarted-up Fonds Brun, reduced yet again! I have demi-glace recipes
    in three or four such gourmet type recipe books, two of which were
    compiled by renowned Cordon bleu chefs trained in France at Michelin
    star restaurants. So much for them I guess!

    For general purposes I have found the recipe I generally use (from one
    of the above gourmet books) and which I posted originally serves my
    purposes very well. It yields a good rich well-flavoured basic sauce
    from which I can add other ingredients to make variations (e.g.
    madeira sauce) and, while it is not truly authentic, occasionally in
    the past and when I did a lot of entertaining I went to the trouble of
    making authentic Demi-glace, using the recipes from my Escoffier. So,
    yes, I do know the difference.

    For the purists who have gone to such pains to point out that I have
    simplified (or skipped) the proper steps and produced nothing more
    than just a brown gravy (or slurry), but who have not detailed the
    entire process they actually use themselves, here is a summary from
    the Escoffier demi-glace recipe that I formerly made

    Sauce demi-glace requires, among other things, sauce espagnole AND
    fonds brun AND glace de Viande. To make demi-glace itself does not
    require anything solid (i.e. meat or vegetables) because these have
    been used to formulate the fonds brun previously.

    Sauce espagnole requires some fonds brun, as well as some vegetables
    and bacon and herbs.

    Fonds brun is the basic brown stock which includes browned bones and
    vegetables, cooked slowly for 12 hours, followed by the addition of
    meat chopped, browned, mixed with some of the stock and reduced to a
    glaze, returned to the stock, and simmered until all flavour is
    extracted from the meat. This stock is strained and may be frozen in
    manageable quantities when cool if not using within a few days.

    Glace de Viande uses fonds brun cooked to reduce by three-quarters,
    strained and skimmed frequently and further reduced until it becomes
    a glaze (covers the back of a spoon and is glossy). Can be frozen in
    small quantities if not wanted soon.

    So - yes - fonds brun was what I made and use as a general gravy or
    brown sauce base these days.

    Oh and BTW I never heard of Jacques Pepin - is he a TV celebrity cook
    somewhere? The recipe given is fonds brun isn't it?

    Cheers and thanks for making this topic so informative and
    interesting.
    Daisy

    Carthage demands an explanation for this insolence!

  14. For information and if anyone is interested, the Escoffier demi-glace
    recipe I have is:

    600ml (1 pint) sauce espagnole
    300ml (half-pint) fonds brun
    50ml (2 fl.oz) glace de viande
    1 tbsp sherry, port or madeira (optional)

    Heat the sauce espagnole and when hot pour in half of the cold fonds
    brun and stir. Skim carefully, and repeat. Continue to simmer and
    skim until the sauce has reduced to 400 ml (14 fl.oz). Finish with
    the glace de viande and a little fortified wine.

    As I said before first have your sauce espagnole, fonds brun, and
    glace de viande already made. The time-consuming part of this is
    really in the preparation of the basic sauces, not the finished
    product!

    Cheers

    Daisy

    Carthage demands an explanation for this insolence!

  15. "Daisy" in news:[email hidden]:
    |
    | Oh and BTW I never heard of Jacques Pepin - is he a
    | TV celebrity cook somewhere?

    No, or not originally. He was popularized in the US by his 1976
    large-format book _La Technique_ (ISBN 067179020X etc.) which undertook to
    show in photographs some of the techniques long described in classic word
    recipes. Later he appeared, if I recall, on one of the later TV series of
    the US cookbook author and TV cook Julia Child. (The 1976 book produced a
    quotation I used occasionally in 1980s postings, it's below.)

    | The recipe given is fonds brun isn't it?

    Yes, a basic brown stock or "Estouffade" (Escoffier's term) -- recipe number
    1 of 5012 in the _Guide Culinaire_ (4th Ed., 1921). (Identified by poster
    as a demi-glace in Pépin, which must be a simple mistake. Pépin would know
    the difference.)

    Cheers -- Max

    --
    Solid background is essential, and must precede inventiveness. An artistic
    mind can create a stunning decoration for a cold glazed salmon, but the dish
    will be triumphant only if the salmon is first properly cleaned and poached,
    and the aspic rich and crystal-clear. This requires hard work and love.

    (Pépin, _La Technique,_ 1976)

  16. Max Hauser said:

    "Daisy" in news:[email hidden]:
    |
    | Oh and BTW I never heard of Jacques Pepin - is he a
    | TV celebrity cook somewhere?

    No, or not originally. He was popularized in the US by his 1976
    large-format book _La Technique_ (ISBN 067179020X etc.) which undertook to
    show in photographs some of the techniques long described in classic word
    recipes. Later he appeared, if I recall, on one of the later TV series of
    the US cookbook author and TV cook Julia Child. (The 1976 book produced a
    quotation I used occasionally in 1980s postings, it's below.)

    | The recipe given is fonds brun isn't it?

    Yes, a basic brown stock or "Estouffade" (Escoffier's term) -- recipe number
    1 of 5012 in the _Guide Culinaire_ (4th Ed., 1921).

    I dont often these days dip into my 1979 English language translation
    of Escoffier's 1921 Guide Culinaire, because it is so large and
    unweildy for a not-so-young cook to cart around. In any case my
    daughter has borrowed it and I may (or may not) ever see it again!!!

    I have a lovely small book I keep in the kitchen all the time of one
    of the Escoffier Kitchen Handbook series, called Stocks, Sauces &
    Garnishes, which is a selection adapted from the above book and edited
    by Hilary Newstead and published by Heinemann. I would recommend this
    to anyone who is seriously interested in cooking but can't afford the
    foundation books!

    I find this a very useful little book, with many basic sauces - with
    variations as well - printed in full.

    I seem to remember that brown stock (fonds brun) was called
    Estouffade. I also have a very good Cordon Bleu at Home book - with
    great procedure pictures.

    Bon appetit - Cheers

    Quoted message said:

    (Identified by poster
    as a demi-glace in Pépin, which must be a simple mistake. Pépin would know
    the difference.)

    Quoted message said:

    Cheers -- Max

    Daisy

    Carthage demands an explanation for this insolence!

  17. aem said:


    Sheldon said:


    You probably haven't figured it out but Jacques Pepin ain't much of an
    actual cook, he's essentially a foodtv personality is all... even his
    accent is totally fake.

    If anyone feels inclined to take this comment seriously (which I
    doubt), just take a look at either "La Téchnique" or "La Méthode,"
    books on French cuisine he wrote in the '70's. -aem

    Sheldon writes some absolute rubbish at times. If he can't find Pepin
    in his dictionary, then he either doesn't exist or is no good! I've
    given up trying to reply to him - you don't get anywhere.

    Daisy

    Carthage demands an explanation for this insolence!

  18. Bob (this one) said:
    Reg said:


    Demi-glace is indeed espagnole combined with stock and then reduced
    by half. The question is: why not just make the espagnole sauce with
    a very strong, reduced stock in the first place, making the last
    combination/reduction step unnecessary?

    It won't be Espagnole sauce then. And it won't have the flavor and
    textural characteristics of either Espagnole or demi-glace at the finish.

    Part of the point of the long reduction is to get the very last bits of
    protein (scum) out of the sauce and stock. To render them cleaner and
    more subtle than either separately. I've messed with the basic idea and
    never found anything that improves it or even keeps it as good.

    That's a pretty good description of what I ended up with when I tried
    it in several different permutations. Once I even used clarified stock.
    The result was great stuff, but it was never quite the same as demi
    glace. It lacked sheen and it didn't have the same body. Tasted great,
    though.

    I took from it that it's probably the extra skimming involved that
    makes the difference and you've certainly confirmed that.

    Quoted message said:

    Demi is exactly not about streamlining. If you're making it, the classic
    way is really better. Truly. I've tasted modern efforts to make
    reductions and other alterations for the sake of a more abbreviated
    technique. It doesn't produce a finish of the same quality.

    My thinking was that if you couldn't find a way to shortcut this
    (and I was pretty sure you'd have tried) it probably couldn't be
    done.

    Thank you.

    --
    Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

  19. aem said:
    Quoted message said:


    You probably haven't figured it out but Jacques Pepin ain't much of an
    actual cook, he's essentially a foodtv personality is all... even his
    accent is totally fake.

    If anyone feels inclined to take this comment seriously (which I
    doubt), just take a look at either "La Téchnique" or "La Méthode,"
    books on French cuisine he wrote in the '70's. -aem

    Who would take such a comment seriously? Anyway it's not as if the
    poster knows anything at all about French cooking.

  20. Max Hauser said:


    "Daisy" in news:[email hidden]:
    |
    | Oh and BTW I never heard of Jacques Pepin - is he a
    | TV celebrity cook somewhere?

    No, or not originally. He was popularized in the US by his 1976
    large-format book _La Technique_ (ISBN 067179020X etc.) which undertook to
    show in photographs some of the techniques long described in classic word
    recipes. Later he appeared, if I recall, on one of the later TV series of
    the US cookbook author and TV cook Julia Child. (The 1976 book produced a
    quotation I used occasionally in 1980s postings, it's below.)

    | The recipe given is fonds brun isn't it?

    Yes, a basic brown stock or "Estouffade" (Escoffier's term) -- recipe number
    1 of 5012 in the _Guide Culinaire_ (4th Ed., 1921). (Identified by poster
    as a demi-glace in Pépin, which must be a simple mistake. Pépin would know
    the difference.)

    Cheers -- Max

    You'd need to take it up with *Jacques* himself; it's from one of his
    earlier books and it is a true French demi-glace.

    Quoted message said:


    --
    Solid background is essential, and must precede inventiveness. An artistic
    mind can create a stunning decoration for a cold glazed salmon, but the dish
    will be triumphant only if the salmon is first properly cleaned and poached,
    and the aspic rich and crystal-clear. This requires hard work and love.

    (Pépin, _La Technique,_ 1976)

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