Decanio on doping at racelistings.com

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is wild

http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=329

JT

Hein Verbruggen just called. He says the guys a [censored] loser. The peloton
is 95% clean.

I love thses lines in his blog :

What matters at the end of the day is keeping it real. And being able to
look yourself in the mirror. You can become a pro clean and you can race as
a clean racer. Don't take drugs, they will ruin your friendships, and your
relationships, and your health. I have seen skeletal changes in my friends,
they are going bald, growing hair on there back. They have gotten divorced,
their life is a f#$king nightmare. DON'T DO IT. YOU CAN WIN THE TOUR DE
FRANCE CLEAN. SOMEWHERE THERE IS SOMEONE WHO CAN DO IT.

In article <[email hidden]>, B.

Lafferty said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is wild

http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=329

JT

Hein Verbruggen just called. He says the guys a [censored] loser. The peloton
is 95% clean.

I love thses lines in his blog :

What matters at the end of the day is keeping it real. And being able to
look yourself in the mirror. You can become a pro clean and you can race as
a clean racer. Don't take drugs, they will ruin your friendships, and your
relationships, and your health. I have seen skeletal changes in my friends,
they are going bald, growing hair on there back. They have gotten divorced,
their life is a f#$king nightmare. DON'T DO IT. YOU CAN WIN THE TOUR DE
FRANCE CLEAN. SOMEWHERE THERE IS SOMEONE WHO CAN DO IT.

I don't see what's so alarming about what he wrote. He tells it like he
saw it with no apparent axe to grind.

-WG

"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

This is wild

http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=329

Really? I'm not the least bit surprised. I'm surprised you would be. Are
you saying you don't believe it, JT?

JF

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 02:15:17 GMT, "Jim Flom" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

This is wild

http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=329

Really? I'm not the least bit surprised. I'm surprised you would be. Are
you saying you don't believe it, JT?

No, it's just that I'm surprised he is so public ragging on the Saturn
program.

JT

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is wild

http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=329

JT

I'm sure not gonna dope now after reading that. But hey, I'm a 48 year old
club rider.

Bob C.
But seriously, you gotta hand it to the guy for laying it all out there.

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote:
This is wild
http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=329
JT

i tend to believe him - and i think it took courage
to state his case publicly. decanio's acheived alot.
these facts resonate with me.
e-RICHIE

Quoted message said:

From: "Richard Sachs" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

This is wild
http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=329
JT

i tend to believe him - and i think it took courage
to state his case publicly. decanio's acheived alot.
these facts resonate with me.
e-RICHIE

It rang true to me. I am surprised too that he said as much about Saturn as he
did. I do not have the best of things to say about the Saturn Junior team from
experience with them. They had some good kids, but a bunch of them were at
least as nasty as anything said about Gags, or Sundt.
If JT is bringing this up, and it doesn't surprise Richard then your going to
have to prove otherwise to me.
Bill C

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 02:15:17 GMT, "Jim Flom" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

This is wild

http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=329

Really? I'm not the least bit surprised. I'm surprised you would be. Are
you saying you don't believe it, JT?

No, it's just that I'm surprised he is so public ragging on the Saturn
program.

JT

He's not the first I've heard rip on the Saturn team. Probably won't be
the last.

psycholist said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is wild

http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=329

JT

I'm sure not gonna dope now after reading that. But hey, I'm a 48 year old
club rider.

Bob C.
But seriously, you gotta hand it to the guy for laying it all out there.

C'mon. Admit it, you have a beer after a hard ride to make the aches
and pains go away.

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

psycholist said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is wild

http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=329

JT

I'm sure not gonna dope now after reading that. But hey, I'm a 48 year

old

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

club rider.

Bob C.
But seriously, you gotta hand it to the guy for laying it all out there.

C'mon. Admit it, you have a beer after a hard ride to make the aches
and pains go away.

Actually I don't. I'm a former alcoholic. That's the toughest craving to
overcome ... the desire for a post-ride brew. Jeez. I didn't realize when
I was doing that I was actually a doper, too.

Bob C.

This is nothing new, though. There are a few teams out there who seem
to turn their riders into a--holes, including a few junior programs.
A few years ago I was cooling down after a race with a friend when we
noticed a prominent NE team ride by an average joe cyclist with
(obvious) mechanical problems like he didn't exist. We turned around.
I'm not saying we're special, just that we're not winning friends in
the public by being [censored].

Regarding Decanio, I found it an interesting read, but not too
surprising. I've heard a few Saturn stories and U.S. doping in
general. Its so easy to get away with here and its easy to get good
drugs. My views on doping have changed over the years, but I will say
that doping to win some regional race in the U.S. like Athens
Twilight, Bear Mountain or the Green Mnt Stage race is laim; who are
you impressing? God, I've heard of cat 3's and 4's doping! At least
get your D-1 pro contract first and then make that decision. However,
if anyone out there believes Hein's claim that 95% of the Euro Pro's
are clean they're smoking crack.

When I was in Ireland a few weeks ago I caught a great 2 hr program on
doping in sport, with an emphasis on cycling and running. They had
interviews with Robin Seymour (top Irish cycling MTB), Paul Kimmage,
[censored] Pound and UCI notables. It was amazing, the Pound is pointing
fingers saying cycling has a problem, but that doping isn't
widespread, the UCI says 5-10%, and clean riders are saying 95%. Some
researchers are now saying that some genetic manipulation may already
exist. I think what Decanio claims is just the tip. As I said, its
easy to do here and easy to get, so its very tempting. Whether you
agree or not, doping at the top may be a "necessary evil", but juniors
and U-23's need to realize they need to get to the top on their own
merits, not chemicals. Who want's to dope up to finish last in P-R?
Maybe too many.

CH

CH

Quoted message said:

It rang true to me. I am surprised too that he said as much about Saturn as he
did. I do not have the best of things to say about the Saturn Junior team from
experience with them. They had some good kids, but a bunch of them were at
least as nasty as anything said about Gags, or Sundt.
If JT is bringing this up, and it doesn't surprise Richard then your going to
have to prove otherwise to me.
Bill C

This is nothing new, though. There are a few teams out there who seem
to turn their riders into a--holes, including a few junior programs.
A few years ago I was cooling down after a race with a friend when we
noticed a prominent NE team ride by an average joe cyclist with
(obvious) mechanical problems like he didn't exist. We turned around.
I'm not saying we're special, just that we're not winning friends in
the public by being [censored].

Regarding Decanio, I found it an interesting read, but not too
surprising. I've heard a few Saturn stories and U.S. doping in
general. Its so easy to get away with here and its easy to get good
drugs. My views on doping have changed over the years, but I will say
that doping to win some regional race in the U.S. like Athens
Twilight, Bear Mountain or the Green Mnt Stage race is laim; who are
you impressing? God, I've heard of cat 3's and 4's doping! At least
get your D-1 pro contract first and then make that decision. However,
if anyone out there believes Hein's claim that 95% of the Euro Pro's
are clean they're smoking crack. Overall, I think most of us can pick
out the dopers in the U.S. and clean guys; some guys win big races,
others dominate from March to September. At least in the U.S. you can
certainly compete clean and win, just not so often (e.g. Mark
McCormack).

When I was in Ireland a few weeks ago I caught a great 2 hr program on
doping in sport, with an emphasis on cycling and running. They had
interviews with Robin Seymour (top Irish cycling MTB), Paul Kimmage,
[censored] Pound and UCI notables. It was amazing, the Pound is pointing
fingers saying cycling has a problem, but that doping isn't
widespread, the UCI says 5-10%, and clean riders are saying 95%. Some
researchers are now saying that some genetic manipulation may already
exist. I think what Decanio claims is just the tip. As I said, its
easy to do here and easy to get, so its very tempting. Whether you
agree or not, doping at the top may be a "necessary evil", but juniors
and U-23's need to realize they need to get to the top on their own
merits, not chemicals. Who want's to dope up to finish last in P-R?
Maybe too many.

CH
BTW: I am in no way implying or pointing fingers at any U.S. rider in
particular, just generalizing from what I know (seen/verified) and
have heard (rumor or heresay from those I trust).

Quoted message said:

It rang true to me. I am surprised too that he said as much about Saturn as he
did. I do not have the best of things to say about the Saturn Junior team from
experience with them. They had some good kids, but a bunch of them were at
least as nasty as anything said about Gags, or Sundt.
If JT is bringing this up, and it doesn't surprise Richard then your going to
have to prove otherwise to me.
Bill C

Richard Adams said:

C'mon. Admit it, you have a beer after a hard ride to make the aches
and pains go away.

Hello. My name is Tim. I'm a recovering Ibuprofen-aholic.

--

--------------------

Remove CLOTHES to reply

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (chris)

Quoted message said:

CH
BTW: I am in no way implying or pointing fingers at any U.S. rider in
particular, just generalizing from what I know (seen/verified) and
have heard (rumor or heresay from those I trust).

I was not talking about doping. Never asked and don't know. What I was
commenting on was a few of their riders who liked to take out other juniors,
especially on the corners just to get rid of them. They'd brag about it to
each other after the races, or before about what they did at the last race.
They made no effort to hide the fact that they were intentionally crashing
people.
Talked to a few of the good kids on the team about this and their comment was
"Yeah, we have some real [censored]." end of discussion.
I don't know of any protest that resulted in much of a penalty either. The
worst of this was just after we came back to the States and didn't know a lot
of people. Talking to the other teams, we were told that because it's Saturn
nobody wanted to step on their toes and upset them. So not much was done.
Bill C

chris said:

Some researchers are now saying that some genetic manipulation may already
exist.

Where did you read this? I read some stuff on this somewhere, but they
stopped short of claiming that it was taking place.

I do not like his article. All it said to me is that the only reason
he did not make it is because of drugs. It never said anything about
what to do when someone tells you to take them.

I am glad he said Mike Creed, and Pate are clean beacause everyone
should know they are. Calling someone out for durgs is just a cop out
for being jelious. Everyone has a great ride sometimes and it seems
like they are on something. The bottom line unless you seem them take
the product, admit to it, or test positive you can not say they are on
it. I lost respect for the guy when he said he used them. How old is
he now? What the hell was he thinking. He is young, has talent, and
he still took hgh and a testosterone patch. It is good he quit. We
do not need guys like him in the sport.

I dont doubt some guys were on the good on saturn. He need to give
some names. It is not right to call out a team because not everyone
is using them.
This goes for Lance and most other big pros. I would guess lance has
taken drugs before, that is probley the reason his cancer spred so
quckly. I have heard so many stories it makes me sick. I think it is
posible he won the 1999 tour clean and he does not use illegal
substances now.

I think if you are super talented and have the right people around you
it is possible to win a grand stage race clean. You need doctors for
iv's and products to help you recover, but none that are "illegal".
Glucose shots, Injectible vitimans, sleeping agents, etc...

J

by the way, someone hacked into my screen name last week. Not cool

In article <[email hidden]>, chris

Quoted message said:

Whether you
agree or not, doping at the top may be a "necessary evil", but juniors
and U-23's need to realize they need to get to the top on their own
merits, not chemicals.

And there are coaches that say they won't work with a rider who has
been doping in the past, and one of the reasons is that without the
drugs the guy may not have the talent to be good anyway. The past drug
use makes it difficult to know if the rider should just retire or try
racing clean.

-WG

"gym gravity" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

chris said:

Some researchers are now saying that some genetic manipulation may

already

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

exist.

Where did you read this? I read some stuff on this somewhere, but they
stopped short of claiming that it was taking place.

Austin TX?

Dave

gym gravity said:

chris said:

Some researchers are now saying that some genetic manipulation may
already exist.

Where did you read this? I read some stuff on this somewhere, but
they stopped short of claiming that it was taking place.

It's not taking place. The technology is not there.