I don't think that stiff leg deads are bad for the back if the technique is right. With NO bend in the low back there is less strain on the low back discs than traditional deads. I say this as someone who's struggled with a ruptured disc for 18 years. I've never had a problem with SLDL hurting my back, but have a little with squats; and with normal deads I have to be very careful. I never do over 225lbs with either form of dead lift (yet). I've just started traditional deadlifts a few months ago in an attempt to strengthen my supporting muscles. I've found my back feels better all around and doesn't hurt so much when riding.
I recommend deads for any cyclist even if it doesn't improve the cycling. It's great if only for the protection it affords the low back.
Don't know if deads help cycling any more than squats would, but the movement does seem to be very similar to out-of-the-seat sprinting.
I enjoy all three. Full, Stiff and the Partials in the rack from knee height. Since I just started these several month ago, I am making decent progress. I now go up to 405 for fulls, partial at 495 and then stiff at only 225 with very strict form as a finishing exercise. Back is starting to look thick. 🙂 No problems whatsoever with grip.
I enjoy all three. Full, Stiff and the Partials in the rack from knee height. Since I just started these several month ago, I am making decent progress. I now go up to 405 for fulls, partial at 495 and then stiff at only 225 with very strict form as a finishing exercise. Back is starting to look thick. 🙂 No problems whatsoever with grip.
Funny. The words "enjoy" and "deadlift" should never be in the same sentence!! 😄
I've read about squat strength, but was wondering ideadlift, and if you do what kind of numbers you pull. Thanks.
I am not a track guru, but have powerlifted for a while. Good info can be had from Dr fred Hatfield aka DR Squat...He is not a clean lifter, and in the past has advocated alot of Russian routines, but he has always been informative. No offense, but the deadlift is a waste of time for cyclist. The stiff leg DL is a good asistance exersize for the squat, and should be done in a way that the back is very straight, shoulders back head up. You will feel a strong pull in the hams when you are low enough....Focus on the Squat, learn what "REAL" paralel is ond go there. FYI draw a line from your hip joint to middle of your knee. When that line is paralell with the ground your low enough......I have squated 455x1 Deadlited 550x1 power clean 270x1 Bench 360x1 at under 200 lbs. I am 43 and can still spin a 48x14 gear to 150 38mph on a flat.....Also remember, your a bike racer, not a power lifter. If you try to do both well , youll stink at both. I can only train legs every two weeks, and I dont ride for 3 days after...Good luck
Perhaps coming from your powerlifting background you don't see the cycling value of deads. Or perhaps I'm wrong. But let me give my rationale. From an injury prevention standpoint, deadlifts develop the lowback muscles more than anything else. Even squatting (when done properly ala. powerlifting technique) doesn't involve the low back to that extent. I have struggled with a ruptured L4/L5 disc since I was 20. I was a heavy cyclist and all that seat time is what ultimately caused the disc problems I've struggled with for 18 years now. Since adding deads to my routine my back has improved immensely. Basically for @ 10 of those years I was, for all practical purposes, disabled. Now I can do most everything again (I'll soon try adding back my kickboxing and see if I can tolerate that too). A cyclist kills his discs while riding, and needs the support that strong low-back muscles provide. That's reason #1.
Reason #2 is that when you are sprinting on a bike, you are leaned over forward on to the drops of the bars. This places your upper body relative to the lower body in a position much more reminiscent of a deadlift than a squat. Biomechanically deads probably equate more to sprinting on a bike than squats do. With each push on the pedals there's a corresponding pull up on the handlebars with the low-back muscles providing an equal amount of resistance to transmit that force downward. Just like deadlifting.
Perhaps coming from your powerlifting background you don't see the cycling value of deads. Or perhaps I'm wrong. But let me give my rationale. From an injury prevention standpoint, deadlifts develop the lowback muscles more than anything else. Even squatting (when done properly ala. powerlifting technique) doesn't involve the low back to that extent. I have struggled with a ruptured L4/L5 disc since I was 20. I was a heavy cyclist and all that seat time is what ultimately caused the disc problems I've struggled with for 18 years now. Since adding deads to my routine my back has improved immensely. Basically for @ 10 of those years I was, for all practical purposes, disabled. Now I can do most everything again (I'll soon try adding back my kickboxing and see if I can tolerate that too). A cyclist kills his discs while riding, and needs the support that strong low-back muscles provide. That's reason #1.
Reason #2 is that when you are sprinting on a bike, you are leaned over forward on to the drops of the bars. This places your upper body relative to the lower body in a position much more reminiscent of a deadlift than a squat. Biomechanically deads probably equate more to sprinting on a bike than squats do. With each push on the pedals there's a corresponding pull up on the handlebars with the low-back muscles providing an equal amount of resistance to transmit that force downward. Just like deadlifting.
I guess everone is different. I would have perscribed lots of ab work and back work on a glute ham gastroc raise bench. Most of my squat work was done high bar narrow stance below paralell, NO BELT or wraps . I think that is the better way to squat .The no belt forces you to stay tight (405x6 365x10 range). I cant do that any more, 315x10 is aboutall i can muster. I have to do about 5 set of leg press to be warm enough to squat.Gettin old stinks! Glad the dl worked for you though. Certainly is no fun to do h a h a h a . Question, how do you keep from overtraining doing all the weight training and Cycling. I am in a constant battle of not overtraining. If i am overtrained at all I have no snap in my legs on the bike..... Thanks BP
I guess everone is different. I would have perscribed lots of ab work and back work on a glute ham gastroc raise bench. Most of my squat work was done high bar narrow stance below paralell, NO BELT or wraps . I think that is the better way to squat .The no belt forces you to stay tight (405x6 365x10 range). I cant do that any more, 315x10 is aboutall i can muster. I have to do about 5 set of leg press to be warm enough to squat.Gettin old stinks! Glad the dl worked for you though. Certainly is no fun to do h a h a h a . Question, how do you keep from overtraining doing all the weight training and Cycling. I am in a constant battle of not overtraining. If i am overtrained at all I have no snap in my legs on the bike..... Thanks BP
I agree we are all different and all should experiment to find what works for them. If I were a competitive cyclist I would lift like this mostly in the off season. However, my main thing these days is weights and I do triathlons on the side to stay fit. Therefore, I'm not concerned @ cycling too much. I ride @ 3 times per week and keep the duration down (since I focus on the sprint triathlons anyway). That's why overtraining isn't too much of a problem. I try to ride on leg days, that's about 3 hours after my lifting. Then 2 other days. I'm not sure that there's too much problem mixing weight training with lots of cardio stuff in terms of overtraining, The cardio tends to stress the circulatory system and the weight training stresses the fast-twitch muscle fibers, but I really haven't done both with intensity at the same time, except when I was fighting. Back then my main problem was with my shoulders enduring the daily boxing routine and the shoulder/chest workouts. Overtraining is much more of an issue the older we get. If I were trying to be competitive in an endurance sport I would be tempted to find a source for growth hormone! (that's how today's athletes handle the rigors without overtraining).
I agree we are all different and all should experiment to find what works for them. If I were a competitive cyclist I would lift like this mostly in the off season. However, my main thing these days is weights and I do triathlons on the side to stay fit. Therefore, I'm not concerned @ cycling too much. I ride @ 3 times per week and keep the duration down (since I focus on the sprint triathlons anyway). That's why overtraining isn't too much of a problem. I try to ride on leg days, that's about 3 hours after my lifting. Then 2 other days. I'm not sure that there's too much problem mixing weight training with lots of cardio stuff in terms of overtraining, The cardio tends to stress the circulatory system and the weight training stresses the fast-twitch muscle fibers, but I really haven't done both with intensity at the same time, except when I was fighting. Back then my main problem was with my shoulders enduring the daily boxing routine and the shoulder/chest workouts. Overtraining is much more of an issue the older we get. If I were trying to be competitive in an endurance sport I would be tempted to find a source for growth hormone! (that's how today's athletes handle the rigors without overtraining).
I dont and wont do drugs .I never did. Creatine pre workout is the only exotic thing I take (about 5 grams)Glutamine seems to work nice with no side effects too. I swim on my off bike days too. That seems to keep me fit and let the legs rest. Gotta go make some money. Thanks again Bill P
I dont and wont do drugs .I never did. Creatine pre workout is the only exotic thing I take (about 5 grams)Glutamine seems to work nice with no side effects too. I swim on my off bike days too. That seems to keep me fit and let the legs rest. Gotta go make some money. Thanks again Bill P
I had to get on the bike to understand what you meant about pulling on the handlebars. I never gave it much thought, but you are right . You need to pull hard..........Any hoo , I get so sore, and big when I DL heavy. Just not sure how to ride when that sore. If I do to much lifting my body weight starts to get high. Right now I am 5'11" 194lbs and my waist is 32" my wife likes me there, and I feel better too. Too many heavy compound movements and I thicken up and am always sore. BP
I had to get on the bike to understand what you meant about pulling on the handlebars. I never gave it much thought, but you are right . You need to pull hard..........Any hoo , I get so sore, and big when I DL heavy. Just not sure how to ride when that sore. If I do to much lifting my body weight starts to get high. Right now I am 5'11" 194lbs and my waist is 32" my wife likes me there, and I feel better too. Too many heavy compound movements and I thicken up and am always sore. BP
I wish I had your genetics. I am about your build, and I have to work very hard at my diet and keep cardio to a minimum just to sustain it. But I want to get big. Can we trade bodies? I DL once a week and don't get sore...but then again I don't do it heavy due to my disc. So far no more than 225 for sets. I do squat my way up to 405, but don't get sore enough to notice anymore. For a competitive track rider I think that this kind of lifting has benefit as winter training. This will develop a base of explosive strength and that strength can then be channeled in to a bike-specific form during the riding season. As long as the bike training is sufficient during the season then no bike-specific strength will be lost. This all has very little to do with road riding though. I can sprint better than I did when I was a 140lb road racer, but only for a 1/4 mile. After that I'm slower in every aspect of cycling than I was as a weakling.
I wish I had your genetics. I am about your build, and I have to work very hard at my diet and keep cardio to a minimum just to sustain it. But I want to get big. Can we trade bodies? I DL once a week and don't get sore...but then again I don't do it heavy due to my disc. So far no more than 225 for sets. I do squat my way up to 405, but don't get sore enough to notice anymore. For a competitive track rider I think that this kind of lifting has benefit as winter training. This will develop a base of explosive strength and that strength can then be channeled in to a bike-specific form during the riding season. As long as the bike training is sufficient during the season then no bike-specific strength will be lost. This all has very little to do with road riding though. I can sprint better than I did when I was a 140lb road racer, but only for a 1/4 mile. After that I'm slower in every aspect of cycling than I was as a weakling.
Ill make you feel better... I went out on small group ride on Sunday. 40 miles. My computer said a tic under 18 mph average I swam on mon,and tues to rest the legs .I felt ok on wed so I went for a ride. I bought a new pair of Mvic bladed spoke rims,and new tires. ($1100 )I felt like [censored]. My goal was to warm up, then ride a rolling 10 miles at 22 + mph. I have a route that I ride, that is 8.5 miles that I have averaged 22mph. Those roads are bumpy with 2 traffic lights. I came up with a nice clear 10 mile TT for myself. I made it 3 miles at 21.3 or some [censored] like that, did a short sprint and rode home . My legs still feel like [censored] and its Friday. Fyi My deadlift was always decent. First day I did them I pulled 455 at 180 lbs. I got 500 past my knees the same day. That exersize is brutal though..............I was 24 yrs old. Ill be 44 on Sunday................... Geez that seems old
Not looking to give a speach, but some of the strongest guys that I trained with do squat and dl on the same day. My friend greg has the AAU dl record at 181, and does both together. The logic being they both abuse the back, and doing them together allows the most recovery time. My personal opinion is to dl once eveery two weeks, squat once a week and do assistance such as good mornings hypers , or stiff leg dl on the off dl week. This all dont mean squat haha if your too tired to ride fast.......unless you a powerlifter. I seem to be in the minority on the "dont dl heavy", but I have my reasons. 1) as I noted they leave you spent 2) as you noted they are like the upper body sqaut. For me they make my upper body huge. I think the stff leg dl or good morns are good enough. Have a good day BP
dumbell said:
The Deadlift is known as the upper body squat it is that good a power builder. You should not use it more than once a week if you also squat and never both in the same workout. In fact you need to make sure you have at LEAST 72 hours rest between each exercise as they are just to draining on the body to allow it to grow unless the rest is built into your schedual.Checkout The Natural Strength Think Tank, for the best training advice you can get.
Deadlift is an excellent strength exercise - and another where technique is very important. My advice - get a powerlifter to train you on technique. Keeping the back tight is vital. Deadlift will strengthen back and also hamstrings. Use straps for top sets - having great grip strength is all good but most would find their grip fails before they are able to reach their maximum weight. I don't suggest wrist straps all the time - just the maximal weight sets or those close to it.
I personally used a reverse grip as used by powerlifters - best deadlift - 222kg single (full lock out and with Eleiko measured weights) and 5 sets xs 5 reps 200kg
Use powercleans for the warm up when doing d/lifts - these are a great exercise - very athletic as opposed to a core strength exercise like deadlift. During a build up towards competition the deadlift will reduce in maximal weight and the powerclean will become the main exercise. This will build explosive power.
Deadlift is an excellent strength exercise - and another where technique is very important. My advice - get a powerlifter to train you on technique. Keeping the back tight is vital. Deadlift will strengthen back and also hamstrings. Use straps for top sets - having great grip strength is all good but most would find their grip fails before they are able to reach their maximum weight. I don't suggest wrist straps all the time - just the maximal weight sets or those close to it.
I personally used a reverse grip as used by powerlifters - best deadlift - 222kg single (full lock out and with Eleiko measured weights) and 5 sets xs 5 reps 200kg
Use powercleans for the warm up when doing d/lifts - these are a great exercise - very athletic as opposed to a core strength exercise like deadlift. During a build up towards competition the deadlift will reduce in maximal weight and the powerclean will become the main exercise. This will build explosive power.
It must be dead of winter. This thread is alive again, and you guys are stuck in the gym🙂
Talking about deadlifts,i started doing them about 18months ago,got up to 180kg(400lbs).I found when u go heavy your weaker areas say like lower abs or groin are really put to the test.I did notice that doing deadlifts my hammys exploded... I also found from doing the deads with wraps i was getting circulation problems down my arms and into my hands during the week after workouts.
