Dead traffic lights stop

"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone point me at a reference that says that a vehicle has to come to
a stop before proceeding with caution, if the traffic lights are dead?

It's the coming to a stop bit that I can't find hide nor hair of.

Highway Code rule 150:

You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing.
Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you
to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right.
If the traffic lights are not working, proceed with caution. Allow cyclists
and buses time and space to move off when the green signal shows.

Simon Mason said:

"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone point me at a reference that says that a vehicle has to come to
a stop before proceeding with caution, if the traffic lights are dead?

Quoted message said:

Highway Code rule 150:

You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing.
Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you
to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right.
If the traffic lights are not working, proceed with caution. Allow cyclists
and buses time and space to move off when the green signal shows.

Yes, but that says nothing about *stopping* if the lights are out (nor,
indeed, does the if they're working bit - you can ooze forwards all you
want provided you don't go over the white line whilst the lights are red).

R.

"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Highway Code rule 150:

You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is
showing. Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is
room for you to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position
to turn right. If the traffic lights are not working, proceed with
caution. Allow cyclists and buses time and space to move off when the
green signal shows.

Yes, but that says nothing about *stopping* if the lights are out (nor,
indeed, does the if they're working bit - you can ooze forwards all you
want provided you don't go over the white line whilst the lights are red).

I don't think I've ever heard of a rule that says you *have* to stop if the
lights are out - where did you come across the idea? The above HC rule
doesn't mention it.

--
Simon M.

Simon Mason said:

I don't think I've ever heard of a rule that says you *have* to stop if the
lights are out - where did you come across the idea?

It keeps being mentioned, here and elsewhere, sans reference. I'm
trying to track it down and find out if it's an urban miff or one of the
least-observed laws on the books.

R.

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:48:55 +0100 someone who may be Richard
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't think I've ever heard of a rule that says you *have* to stop if the
lights are out - where did you come across the idea?

It keeps being mentioned, here and elsewhere, sans reference.

I have never noticed it being mentioned here (uk.rec.cycling).

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Simon Mason said:

"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone point me at a reference that says that a vehicle has to come to
a stop before proceeding with caution, if the traffic lights are dead?

It's the coming to a stop bit that I can't find hide nor hair of.

Highway Code rule 150:

You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing.
Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you
to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right.
If the traffic lights are not working, proceed with caution. Allow cyclists
and buses time and space to move off when the green signal shows.

The regulations for _working_ traffic lights are in The Traffic Signs
Regulations and General Directions 2002,
<http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm> but there is no mention
of a signal that is displaying nothing at all, nor of one that is
"stuck". However TSRGD are "made under section 65 of the Road Traffic
Regulation Act 1984", so it might be addressed in that. Unfortunately
it's too old to be online -- only legislation made from 1988 onwards is
available.

Mike

Richard said:

Can anyone point me at a reference that says that a vehicle has to
come to a stop before proceeding with caution, if the traffic lights
are dead?
It's the coming to a stop bit that I can't find hide nor hair of.

R.

Don't know if it says it anywhere but....

Solid lines = stop

Dotted lines = giveway

If the lights are not working then effectively the junction becomes a four
way stop junction??

Google tells me that that is the case in california:
http://www.ci.santa-clara.ca.us/pub_works/pw_traffic.html

pk

Richard said:

Can anyone point me at a reference that says that a vehicle has to come
to a stop before proceeding with caution, if the traffic lights are dead?

It's the coming to a stop bit that I can't find hide nor hair of.

Aren't you muddling it up with a Stop sign, where I think there is
such a rule?

In message <[email hidden]>, Mike Causer
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone point me at a reference that says that a vehicle has to come to
a stop before proceeding with caution, if the traffic lights are dead?

It's the coming to a stop bit that I can't find hide nor hair of.

Highway Code rule 150:

You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing.
Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you
to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right.
If the traffic lights are not working, proceed with caution. Allow cyclists
and buses time and space to move off when the green signal shows.

The regulations for _working_ traffic lights are in The Traffic Signs
Regulations and General Directions 2002,
<http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm> but there is no mention
of a signal that is displaying nothing at all, nor of one that is
"stuck". However TSRGD are "made under section 65 of the Road Traffic
Regulation Act 1984", so it might be addressed in that. Unfortunately
it's too old to be online -- only legislation made from 1988 onwards is
available.

And only the original versions are on line. When later acts of
parliament amend earlier legislation the HMSO site does not cross
reference them.

--
Keeper

Richard said:

Yes, but that says nothing about *stopping* if the lights are out

I think there may be a reason for that omission :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Richard said:

Simon Mason said:

I don't think I've ever heard of a rule that says you *have* to stop if the
lights are out - where did you come across the idea?

It keeps being mentioned, here and elsewhere, sans reference.

I thought it was one of those things that is notable in that it
doesn't explicitly exist in law. That is, the law itself does not
include any allowance for what to do if the lights aren't working - if
you followed the letter of teh law, you'd have to wait behind the line
'till teh technician turned up to fix them.

However, I believe a judge renowned for his expertise in motoring law
has said something to the effect that a motorist who crossed the line
with a red light showing would have technically comitted an offence.
However, if the motorist advanced across teh line slowly and
cautiously the correct thing for a court to do after observing said
motorist had comitted the offence, was to dismiss the case and impose
no sentence. The name of teh judge and the date of teh pronouncement
escapes me, however.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Simon Mason said:

"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Highway Code rule 150:

You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red
light is showing. Only go forward when the traffic lights
are green if there is room for you to clear the junction
safely or you are taking up a position to turn right. If the
traffic lights are not working, proceed with caution. Allow
cyclists and buses time and space to move off when the green
signal shows.

Yes, but that says nothing about *stopping* if the lights are
out (nor, indeed, does the if they're working bit - you can
ooze forwards all you want provided you don't go over the
white line whilst the lights are red).

I don't think I've ever heard of a rule that says you *have*
to stop if the lights are out - where did you come across the
idea? The above HC rule doesn't mention it.

I thought it had something to do with the solid white line at traffic lights
and that they should be used as you do a stop sign.
--
Mark

1x1 wheel, 3x2 wheels & 1x3 wheels.

"PK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard said:

Can anyone point me at a reference that says that a vehicle has to
come to a stop before proceeding with caution, if the traffic lights
are dead?
It's the coming to a stop bit that I can't find hide nor hair of.

R.

Don't know if it says it anywhere but....

Solid lines = stop

Dotted lines = giveway

If the lights are not working then effectively the junction becomes a four
way stop junction??

You'll find 4-way Stop junctions all over Canada - no roundabouts tho.
The rule there seems to be "take it in turns one at a time". Thing is, it
works! Can you imagine it here?

druidh

druidh <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If the lights are not working then effectively the junction becomes a

four

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

way stop junction??

You'll find 4-way Stop junctions all over Canada - no roundabouts tho.
The rule there seems to be "take it in turns one at a time". Thing is, it
works! Can you imagine it here?

There are some roundabouts; the locals usually call them "rotaries", as in
"rotary warrior" - an automobile driver who, well, you can guess the rest.

The same ones also seem to have trouble counting to one at stop-signs.

druidh said:

You'll find 4-way Stop junctions all over Canada - no roundabouts tho.
The rule there seems to be "take it in turns one at a time". Thing is, it
works! Can you imagine it here?

Yes, half-way up Bookham High Street, for example (in Surrey).

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Ian Smith said:

However, if the motorist advanced across teh line slowly and
cautiously the correct thing for a court to do after observing said
motorist had comitted the offence, was to dismiss the case and impose
no sentence.

The fact that a natural order of calm, considerate driving /seems/ to
assert itself when the lights fail is one of those things the petrolhead
lobby always bring up to show how sensible motorists really are. But
what they fail to take into account is that non-working traffic lights
are exceptional circumstances that /force/ motorists to behave that way.
Under normal circumstances it's a case of look out for yourself and sod
everyone else - if it became the norm to ignore the lights then chaos
would quickly follow.

Whoever this judge may be, he deserves a slap.

d.

druidh said:

You'll find 4-way Stop junctions all over Canada - no roundabouts tho.
The rule there seems to be "take it in turns one at a time". Thing is, it
works! Can you imagine it here?

I imagine they would work in exactly the same way as a mini-roundabout.

Possibly. I could be wrong about that.

d.

davek said:

Ian Smith said:

However, if the motorist advanced across teh line slowly and
cautiously the correct thing for a court to do after observing said
motorist had comitted the offence, was to dismiss the case and

impose

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

no sentence.

if it became the norm to ignore the lights then chaos

Quoted message said:

would quickly follow.

Whoever this judge may be, he deserves a slap.

umm wasn't the point that this only applies in the case of a defective
light stuck on red, in which case surely it is the legislature that
deserves a slap?

best wishes
james

Keeper said:

Quoted message said:

Regulation Act 1984", so it might be addressed in that. Unfortunately
it's too old to be online -- only legislation made from 1988 onwards is
available.

And only the original versions are on line. When later acts of
parliament amend earlier legislation the HMSO site does not cross
reference them.

Of course not. Think how many lawyers would be out of a job if the
population could find out for themselves what the laws are. And
remember the former occupations of the P.M. and the Leader of the
Opposition....

Mike