David Millar

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:27:39 -0000,

Simonb said:

citizen142 said:

Even cricket which was once a
byword of fair play and gentlemanly conduct

When?

Exactly in the 19th century cricket was well known for being a dirty corrupt
game due to the money involved in it.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Andy Leighton said:

Exactly in the 19th century cricket was well known for being a dirty
corrupt game due to the money involved in it.

It's been the case in all sports throughout history. In fact, it's only in
recent years that sport has really started to clean up its act -- and it
appears that cycling is leading the way!

"JohnB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Because?

I'll bite, but I suspect you know the answer.

He is a cheat. He only coughed up when caught then came out with all the
usual cry-baby cr*p.

Worse, he was also the hero of my ten-year old son who was put off cycle
racing as a result and who now keeps asking for the address of Cofidis
so he can cut up his once treasured cap and post it to them.
His treasured Millar autograph from Herne Hill is also now history.

If cycling is to even start cleaning its image up it must rid itself of
the cheats for once and for all. I know of several other parents who now
have serious doubts about encouraging their children into cycling as a
sport. The considrable number of unexplained deaths amongst younger
riders doesn't help.
Instead, cycle racing - at least at a top continental level - is getting
very close to being a circus along the lines that Wrestling has become.

Allowing the cheats to return should have no place in the clean up.

A cheat who has learnt his lesson can be a good ambassador for clean sport.
Though both guilty of using performance destroying drugs rather than the
opposite, Paul Merson and t Tony Adams (footballers and alcoholics) both
accepted their addiction and have both done good work to help others avoid
the pitfalls.

Others have, of course, just come back and acted as if nothing had happened.

If Millar is willing to work to help clean up the sport then he should be
accepted back -- if not, he can rot at the back of the peleton.

T

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if you really need testosterone, you can always whack a testicle off
and get it as legal 'therapy'.

Oooh. There's fighting talk. Careful, or you'll get the rouse Lanzealots!

While I was sat waiting to go into theater today (at the hospital, not
watching ac-tors) I finished LA's "It's not about the bike" and after
that I find myself erring to the side of LA not cheating. As for lopping
a knacker off and having chemo as a perfomance enhancer, well - hardly
funny IMO.

Then again, even Gargin used drugs back in TdF1. These days it's not
even clear cut what's a drug and what's a suppliment, it seems very very
far away from clear cut even down to what goes on the banned list and
what's allowed.

As for Millar, he gets my vote for a second chance.

bfn,

Tony B

Tony W said:

A cheat who has learnt his lesson can be a good ambassador for clean sport.

Others have, of course, just come back and acted as if nothing had happened.

If Millar is willing to work to help clean up the sport then he should be
accepted back --

That was one of the first things he promised to do after being caught red-handed.
he wanted to be an example to young riders. Yeah, yeah.
He has had plenty of opportunities yet there has been little sign of any
action from him.
Of course it couldn't have been an attempt to gain some support before
his hearing could it?
No, no, never.

Quoted message said:

if not, he can rot at the back of the peleton.

John B

Quoted message said:

With football, it's much more of a skill-based sport
[stay seated - that's not an inference it's *better*, but just a
DIFFERENT kind of activity], which quite frankly drugs are going to

do

Quoted message said:

very little for.

Don't kid yourself. Think about steroids.

This side of the pond, Baseball is just "coming out" about drug use -
it seems like all the big baseball record breakers owe their fine
physiques to the syringe. And Baseball is much less of a physical
sport than soccer.

--
Peter Headland

Peter Headland said:

Quoted message said:

With football, it's much more of a skill-based sport
[stay seated - that's not an inference it's *better*, but just a
DIFFERENT kind of activity], which quite frankly drugs are going to

do

Quoted message said:

very little for.

Don't kid yourself. Think about steroids.

Can't say I can recall one story breaking out relating to the use of
steroids in soccer. They don't really bed well together.

Quoted message said:

This side of the pond, Baseball is just "coming out" about drug use -
it seems like all the big baseball record breakers owe their fine
physiques to the syringe. And Baseball is much less of a physical
sport than soccer.

No, in a certain sense I'd say it was more so. But based on strength
and sheer power is it not? You can increase your size and strength
with anabonic steroids very nicely. Look at weight lifting, holy god,
where would that sport be without steroids?

With soccer, your ability to play the game matters as much on your
awareness of where other people are positioned on the pitch, if you
can 'see a pass or not', interacting with other people and your
ability to control a ball. Of course there is room for all kinds of
nicely drugged up athletes in soccer, and it's bound to go on, but
like I said, headless chickens or big strong geezers invariably don't
make good soccer players, so it's not going to have a kind of 'natural
growth'.

Again, I'm not comparing in terms of 'cleaner' or 'better' or 'holier
than now sport' [which soccer certainly is not], but just in terms of
what dope can do for a soccer player in terms of his ability to play
the game.

Booze has traditionally been the drug of soccer in the UK, with a long
culturally history of players getting [censored] up after the game.
Recently with the massive increases of money coming into top levels of
the game, then various other more expensive recreational substances
have come into play. Coke being the obvious example. That and 'hotel
rooms'.

Hope you appreciate I've refrained from using the word 'football' here
:-)

Just my 2p.

Garry

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 08:53:11 GMT, Bob Flemming
<[email protected]> wrote:

opps, sorry about the confusion with the screen name, used in a
different forum dating back.

Garry

Quoted message said:

Peter Headland said:

Quoted message said:

With football, it's much more of a skill-based sport
[stay seated - that's not an inference it's *better*, but just a
DIFFERENT kind of activity], which quite frankly drugs are going to

do

Quoted message said:

very little for.

Don't kid yourself. Think about steroids.

Can't say I can recall one story breaking out relating to the use of
steroids in soccer. They don't really bed well together.

Quoted message said:

This side of the pond, Baseball is just "coming out" about drug use -
it seems like all the big baseball record breakers owe their fine
physiques to the syringe. And Baseball is much less of a physical
sport than soccer.

No, in a certain sense I'd say it was more so. But based on strength
and sheer power is it not? You can increase your size and strength
with anabonic steroids very nicely. Look at weight lifting, holy god,
where would that sport be without steroids?

With soccer, your ability to play the game matters as much on your
awareness of where other people are positioned on the pitch, if you
can 'see a pass or not', interacting with other people and your
ability to control a ball. Of course there is room for all kinds of
nicely drugged up athletes in soccer, and it's bound to go on, but
like I said, headless chickens or big strong geezers invariably don't
make good soccer players, so it's not going to have a kind of 'natural
growth'.

Again, I'm not comparing in terms of 'cleaner' or 'better' or 'holier
than now sport' [which soccer certainly is not], but just in terms of
what dope can do for a soccer player in terms of his ability to play
the game.

Booze has traditionally been the drug of soccer in the UK, with a long
culturally history of players getting [censored] up after the game.
Recently with the massive increases of money coming into top levels of
the game, then various other more expensive recreational substances
have come into play. Coke being the obvious example. That and 'hotel
rooms'.

Hope you appreciate I've refrained from using the word 'football' here
:-)

Just my 2p.

Garry

Dave Kahn said:

There's the legendary story of W.G. Grace replacing the bails after he
had been clean bowled, informing the bowler, "They've come to see me
bat, not you bowl," and carrying on with the innings with the umpire too
intimidated to object.

Which reminds me for no particular reason of one of my favourite cricket
stories which I think comes from Neville Cardus. Between the wars an
amateur (therefore a "gentleman"😉 batsman wearing the trimmings of a
university blue made an elaborate show of finding middle, surveying the
field placings, and taking his stance. He was then bowled first ball by
an unplayable delivery from Yorkshire professional Emmott Robinson.

"Good ball, Robinson, good ball," called the blue.

Back came the reply, "Aye, it were wasted on thee."

--
Dave...

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the
future of the human race. - H. G. Wells

Dave Kahn said:

Dave Kahn said:

There's the legendary story of W.G. Grace replacing the bails after he
had been clean bowled, informing the bowler, "They've come to see me
bat, not you bowl," and carrying on with the innings with the umpire
too intimidated to object.

Which reminds me for no particular reason of one of my favourite cricket
stories which I think comes from Neville Cardus. Between the wars an
amateur (therefore a "gentleman"😉 batsman wearing the trimmings of a
university blue made an elaborate show of finding middle, surveying the
field placings, and taking his stance. He was then bowled first ball by
an unplayable delivery from Yorkshire professional Emmott Robinson.

"Good ball, Robinson, good ball," called the blue.

Back came the reply, "Aye, it were wasted on thee."

Since we've drifted to cricket:

An umpire had taken a dislike to a particular bowler, who may have been
Harold Larwood. His first ball snicked the bat and was caught by the
keeper, and there was a ferocious appeal. "Not out," replied the
umpire. The second ball hit the batsman's pads plumb in front of the
wicket and there was another ferocious appeal. "Not out," replied the
umpire. Larwood rolled up his sleeves, walked back to his mark, and
set out at full speed. His ball screamed past the startled batsman and
uprooted middle stump, sending the bails flying. Larwood dusted off his
hands and turned to the umpire, and said "I nearly had him then."

R.

Bob Flemming <[email protected]> wrote:

: Can't say I can recall one story breaking out relating to the use of
: steroids in soccer. They don't really bed well together.

At least one football manager has insinuated that the italians coming
over here were on EPO.

It *is* a benift in football. Yes, football is a skill sport, but the
less tired team at the end of the 90 mins will win, everything else
being equal (and it often is at the top level).

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

Bob Flemming said:

Can't say I can recall one story breaking out relating to the use of
steroids in soccer. They don't really bed well together.

I'm sure I remember that, in addition to his other Crimes Against
Practically Everybody, Senor D. Maradona (Foreigner and Cheat) was accused
of steroid use. This was apparently dedeuced from the remarkable way he
changed shapefrom "relatively lean" to "brick outhouse". It could, of
course, have been merely pork pies and brown ale (see "Gascoigne, Paul" and
"Rooney, Wayne"😉, but...

What, me, bitter?

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)