D-A chain noise (?) and correct chain length

Quoted message said:

I removed everything I can think of and put fat on it (wheels, cranks, bolts, stem etc etc.)

I'm hoping "fat" is your slang for grease or lube. A freind of mine used "I cant believe it's not
butter" for repacking the bearings in his rear wheel once. interesting mess to clean up.

Quoted message said:

2) What is the best way to determine chain length?

loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on the rear bypassing the derailiure, match
the ends up and add one link.

slartibartfast said:

I'm hoping "fat" is your slang for grease or lube.

As soon as I typed it I realized the English word is Grease. The Dutch word for it is "vet", which
is similar to the English "fat". I meant grease, though.

Quoted message said:

loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on the rear bypassing the derailiure,
match the ends up and add one link.

Thanks!, Derk

slartibartfast said:

loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on the rear bypassing the derailiure,
match the ends up and add one link.

Today I did exactly this after buying a new D-A chain at my LBS. I showed this to a mechanic and he
said that is I would take the length I found using this method, it would definately be too short. I
folllowed his advice, since I am sure he knows more about this then I do and left it longer.

I then consulted the Parks website and they say one should add 1 inch to the length found by using
this method. According to them 1 inch=2 rivets.

So are the Parks people right? The length found by using the Parks method corresponds to what my
mechanic advised me. He used another method, by looking at how low the chain was below the
derailleur cage and checked it by using the jockey wheel alignment method........

Greets, Derk

Derk said:

slartibartfast said:

loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on the rear bypassing the derailiure,
match the ends up and add one link.

Today I did exactly this after buying a new D-A chain at my LBS. I showed this to a mechanic
and he said that is I would take the length I found using this method, it would definately be
too short. I folllowed his advice, since I am sure he knows more about this then I do and left
it longer.

I then consulted the Parks website and they say one should add 1 inch to the length found by using
this method. According to them 1 inch=2

rivets.

2 rivets is one link -- one full link. What is different about this method from what you first
described? Or do you mean an _extra_ inch?

Bottom line is that the chain has to be long enough to shift into and out of the big-big
combination. Shorter than that is asking for disaster. On the other side, you should have enough
take-up so that the small-small comination works without slack, but that is not as critical, since
if the first fails, something breaks.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're _`\(,_ | still a rat. --Lilly
Tomlin (_)/ (_) |

Werehatrack said:

First, a piece of unrelated advice: spam.nl is a valid domain, owned by rdweb.nl; they'd probably
appreciate it if you didn't use an address that caused their spam load to go up by that much more.
The domain invalid.com is guaranteed to be just that; invalid.

OK, thanks. I didn't know that and I changed it immedaitely. I'll explain to you why I don't put my
real email address here: I was so foolish to do so a few months ago B4 changing providers. I got
tens of mails from Africa on a daily basis, written by sons-in-law of former kings, presidents,
dictators etc etc. I got SO sick of this, that I decided not to publish it anymore. On top of that,
since we're writing in an open forum, it's better to post messenges in this newsgroup, than emailing
someone, so that everybody can benefit from the experience other readers (as yourself) have.

Quoted message said:

shift without leaving the chain untensioned. If there's a slack problem, try cleaning the der
before making any assumptions about capability to handle the slack; it may just be a case of crud
buildup keeping it from going where it needs to go...and if there's *that* much crud, it needed
cleaning pretty desperately anyway.

My D-A group is EXTREMELY clean (I clean it twice a week and don't ride this bike in or after rain),
so that can't be the cause. My mechanic just told me that this option was out of the question,
because the derailleur cage was pointing to much forward........

Thanks for your answer!

Greets, Derk

Hi Mike,

MikeYankee said:

[email hidden] isn't winning you any friends. We hate spam, too,

I'll repeat what I just wrote another reader of this newsgroup:

I'll explain to you why I don't put my real email address here:

1)I was so foolish to do so a few months ago B4 changing providers. I got tens of mails from Africa
on a daily basis, written by sons-in-law of former kings, presidents, dictators etc etc. I got SO
sick of this, that I decided not to publish it anymore.

Quoted message said:

you want people to help you it's inconsiderate not to post your address -- end of lecture.

2)since we're writing in an open forum, I feel it's better anyway to post messenges in this
newsgroup, than emailing someone directly, so that everybody can benefit from the expertise other
readers (as yourself) have.

Thanks for your answer btw!

Greets, Derk

A noted fiord designer said:

Quoted message said:

loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on the rear bypassing the derailiure,
match the ends up and add one link.

Derk said:

Today I did exactly this after buying a new D-A chain at my LBS. I showed this to a mechanic
and he said that is I would take the length I found using this method, it would definately be
too short. I folllowed his advice, since I am sure he knows more about this then I do and left
it longer.

I then consulted the Parks website and they say one should add 1 inch to the length found by using
this method. According to them 1 inch=2 rivets.

That's exactly what slartibartfarst said, also what I recommend at
sheldonbrown.comderailer adjustment.htmlOpen ↗.

This is also what Shimano recommends, except that their translator got confused between complete
links and half links.

Quoted message said:

So are the Parks people right? The length found by using the Parks method corresponds to what my
mechanic advised me. He used another method, by looking at how low the chain was below the
derailleur cage and checked it by using the jockey wheel alignment method........

That's not the best way to go, but since it gave the same result in this instance, where's
the problem?

Sheldon "Plus One" Brown +--------------------------------------------+
| Never worry about theory as long as the | machinery does what it's supposed to do. | --Robert A.
| Heinlein |
+--------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Bonsoir l'expert cycliste qui s'est rase la barbe depuis quelque temps! Sheldon Brown said:

That's not the best way to go, but since it gave the same result in this instance, where's the
problem?

Well, I have 4 bikes and I was looking for a fool proof method that I can use quickly and reliably
on all my bikes.

I told my mechanic the following: put the chain over the biggest cog and big chainwheel without
passing through the derailleur. Then, add 1 link to the shortest way to connect the chain. He did
this and said: "it's too short"!

The problem for me was the difference between links and rivets. I thought 2 rivets equalled 2 links,
but I understand that's not the case.

Anyway, I couldn't convince him to make the chain shorter, though I think the chain is too long,
because I hear the chain rattling when I go over bumps. I think it hits the big chainring when I'm
on the smaller chainring. I ride a 42/53 13-23 D-A group and I'm one of those people who go crazy of
moises while riding, so I mounted a brand new D-A chain just to find out if the chain's length is to
blame for the noise, or that something else is causing it.

BTW: when he judged it using the method recommended by Shimano, I find that the jockey wheels are
not aligned, but that the lower one is behind the upper one, but according to him one mustn't watch
the center of the cage bolts, but the wheels themselves, which makes a difference IMHO.

Sinceres amities, Derk

Derk said:

Quoted message said:

loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on the rear bypassing the derailiure,
match the ends up and add one link.

Quoted message said:

I then consulted the Parks website and they say one should add 1 inch to the length found by using
this method. According to them 1 inch=2 rivets.

So are the Parks people right?

1 link = 1 inch

A complete link consists of an "inny" and an "outy"

Art Harris

RE/

Quoted message said:

it's inconsiderate not to post your address

You're not getting enough spam yet. Wait a few months....

I'm up to a consistant 500-600 per day - but mostly for another reason.

Still, I wouldn't even *think* of posting my legitimate address in a newsgroup any more than I'd put
my telephone number up and ask strangers to make sales calls to it.
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bonsoir l'expert cycliste qui s'est rase la barbe depuis quelque temps!

Quoted message said:

Sheldon Brown said:

That's not the best way to go, but since it gave the same result in this instance, where's the
problem?

Well, I have 4 bikes and I was looking for a fool proof method that I can use quickly and reliably
on all my bikes.

(derk)> I told my mechanic the following: put the chain over the biggest cog and big

Quoted message said:

chainwheel without passing through the derailleur. Then, add 1 link to the shortest way to connect
the chain. He did this and said: "it's too short"!

The problem for me was the difference between links and rivets. I thought

2

Quoted message said:

rivets equalled 2 links, but I understand that's not the case.

Anyway, I couldn't convince him to make the chain shorter, though I think the chain is too long,
because I hear the chain rattling when I go over bumps. I think it hits the big chainring when I'm
on the smaller

chainring.

Quoted message said:

I ride a 42/53 13-23 D-A group and I'm one of those people who go crazy of moises while riding, so
I mounted a brand new D-A chain just to find out

if

Quoted message said:

the chain's length is to blame for the noise, or that something else is causing it.

BTW: when he judged it using the method recommended by Shimano, I find

that

Quoted message said:

the jockey wheels are not aligned, but that the lower one is behind the upper one, but according
to him one mustn't watch the center of the cage bolts, but the wheels themselves, which makes a
difference IMHO.

The chain dragging on the outer ring when in your small one is unrelated to chain length. Annoying,
but not part of that issue.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

The chain dragging on the outer ring when in your small one is unrelated to chain length.
Annoying, but not part of that issue.

I think I didn't describe this clearly, since I'm no Englsih native speaker: it doesn't make a
continuous noise because the chain touches the big ring all the time when the chain is on the small
ring, but it seems to touch the big chainring only when I go over bumps in the street, due to
lateral flex which I think is caused by it's length. (lack of tension).

Could that be the case?

Greets, Derk

MikeYankee <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Derk --

[email hidden] isn't winning you any friends. We hate spam, too, but if

you

Quoted message said:

want people to help you it's inconsiderate not to post your address -- end

of

Quoted message said:

lecture.

Anyhow... >> loop the chain around the big chainring and the big cog on

the

Quoted message said:

rear bypassing the derailiure, match the ends up and add one link.

This is correct, but it assumes the rider will be smart enough not to

shift

Quoted message said:

onto the longest cog while on the big ring; or to change to a larger

cassette

Quoted message said:

without lengthening the chain.

Why? - I don't see that it assumes any such thing. If your chain is measured long enough to span the
big-big combo, plus one extra complete link, then shifting to this combo will do no harm outside of
pulling the chain at an angle it isn't designed to be pulled at (and the reason big-big and
small-small combos are a 'no-no'😉

Shaun aRe - it has never given me, nor anyone I know of, any problem whatsoever.