Cyclist rant

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:38:19 -0400, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage roadie.

The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane highways that cuts
through our little area. There weren't any other cars on the stretch of
road I was traveling.

I came upon two cyclists on road gear and decked out as if they were
reasonably experienced riders. They were riding 2-abreast. They were just
dawdling along. The rider on the left was weaving all over. We were
approaching a crossroad, so I was afraid to pass because, the way they were
riding, I couldn't be sure they wouldn't make a turn right in front of me.
Neither rider seemed interested in showing me any consideration whatsoever.
Despite the very open road, I had to just sit in behind them and wait. It's
not that it was any big deal to wait 15 seconds until we got past that
intersection, but I couldn't imagine being THAT rude and inconsiderate of
traffic.

I'd submit that it took you far longer to compose your original post
than it did to wait for those two rude, inconsiderate riders to clear
the intersection. And I'd hate to guess what multiple of that 15
second delay you've spent, let alone the rest of us, on follow-ups.

Based on the terrible, terrible anguish you've suffered by being
delayed for an entire 15 seconds on an otherwise empty road, when
you've chosen to live 20 miles away from your job and regularly cycle
to and from work... you're being unreasonable. Maybe you need a nap.
You'll feel better when you're rested.

Pat

Email address works as is.

Matt O'Toole said:

Some French cars even have two horns -- tooty
country horns (Hallo!) and blaring city horns (Get out of my way!) Southerners
don't seem to use horns unless they're really [censored], so I wouldn't try a
"friendly" toot around here. This is unfortunate -- the usual annoyed redneck
tactic is to creep up behind a cyclist and rev the engine! I'd much prefer a
friendly toot.

He he--we know all about that here in Nashville. 😄

Apropo the "friendly" horn--I have one of those mini bike bells mounted
stealth-style on my quill stem (as to not interfere with the oh-so-elegant
looks of my road bike 😉) and I find it to be indispensable when riding
paths or even passing riders on the street. A happy ping-piiiiiing is much
more jolly than a breathless "passing on the left!". Highly recommended.

psycholist said:

They knew I was there. They just apparently didn't care.

That's possible.

OTOH, they may have figured there was no reason for you not to pass.
You say there was an intersection up ahead, and you feared they'd turn
in front of you. They (or actually, the guy on the left) may have
thought "Obviously I'm not going to turn, since I'm not signaling." And
they may have wondered why you weren't passing.

Unless the cyclists were looking back at you and giving you the finger,
I'd say this is more likely a very minor miscommunication, rather than
an outright act of rudeness. Admittedly, I wasn't there - but I've seen
similar events from various perspectives.

Hell, two days ago I had a motorist who backed up traffic by refusing to
pass me, despite having _plenty_ of room. They passed only when I made
insistent motions directing them to do so. What were they thinking? I
don't know. Perhaps they were thinking something like what you were.

Look, to put this in context: Have you never walked through a mall and
had people obstruct you for a few seconds? Was this really that much worse?

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

psycholist said:

You sound all high and mighty in the posts you've made on this thread. Had
you been there, you'd have clearly seen that there was no excuse for this
riders behavior.

From my perspective, most people are being quite calm. You actually
seem offended because we don't share your outrage.

But we don't share your outrage partly because we've seen motorists
unjustifiably outraged by our perfectly legal, responsible riding.
We're really not sure that this isn't just another example. Sorry, but
we weren't there.

Quoted message said:

He wasn't riding as far to the right as pracitcable by ANY
stretch of anyone's imagination.

You should understand that the law in almost all states is not quite
clear. Traffic laws generally state 1) bicyclists are to ride as near
to the right as practicable, and 2) they shall ride no more than two
abreast.

Obviously, those two statements are in conflict. It's almost as if the
legislators expected us to be reasonable about this!

Quoted message said:

And don't try to tell me what I assume.
I assume that sharing the road is supposed to be just that ... sharing. I'm
a cyclist and I try to ride with consideration for the cars that also are
entitled to the road. This particular cyclist that I encountered acted like
the road was all his and screw everybody else. I'm learning from some of
the unbelieveable posts on this thread that there are a whole lot of you out
there who apparently feel all people in cars are evil and that people on
bicycles can do no wrong.

<sigh>

Think: If this 15 second incident is enough to really stress you, then
your life is very good indeed.

So relax.

Alternately, take a week and write down every time a motorist drives
less-than-perfectly. Meditate on the relative number of incidents, and
their potential importance.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

In article <[email hidden]>,

maxo said:

Apropo the "friendly" horn--I have one of those mini bike bells mounted
stealth-style on my quill stem (as to not interfere with the oh-so-elegant
looks of my road bike 😉) and I find it to be indispensable when riding
paths or even passing riders on the street. A happy ping-piiiiiing is much
more jolly than a breathless "passing on the left!". Highly recommended.

Maybe cars should be equipped with bells instead of horns :-)

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Thu, 03 Jun 2004 00:44:27 -0400, <[email hidden]>,

Frank Krygowski said:

Alternately, take a week and write down every time a motorist drives
less-than-perfectly. Meditate on the relative number of incidents, and
their potential importance.

Or count the seconds lost driving behind someone hunting for a parking
space. They're not signalling, keeping pace or paying attention to
traffic building behind them. They're unpredictable and you generally
can't pass them until everybody else has passed you. Then you have to
wait while they figure out how to berth the damn scud.

Knowing now about all those homicidal drivers bent on revenge it makes
me worry for my life every time I think to dare parallel parking.
--
zk

Rick Onanian said:

I'm often startled by even a minor blip from a horn, and often
offended, even if I think it wasn't supposed to be offensive.

Anyone else notice that toward the end of a ride -- especially a long and/or
hard ride -- the "startle response" is greatly suppressed? More than a few
times I've had yahoos yell, honk, pass too close or whatever and I just sort
of look at them as they pull away without even a hint of a flinch or
emotion. Guess it's survival mode time...

Bill "wish I were always that calm and imperturbable" S.

No. I wrote that 'the book' (you might cure your parochial point of view)
demonstrates in math/engineering language that a cyclist cannot generally
delay a motorist. I wrote that the mad motorist cures his 'delay' with a
momentary and vigorous application of the exhaust overpressure control pedal
(a.k.a. accelerator).

I would like the law enforced even handedly. There are many times the
number of cyclists of motorists.

It is not illegal to be rude and your idea of a 'cure' for rudeness may
become inculcated in the law and not to our betterment. You are selfish,
self-righteous and narrowly focused.

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
|
| "Doug Huffman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
| news:[email hidden]...
| > I keyed on, "I couldn't imagine being THAT rude and inconsiderate of|
| > traffic." And remembered Chapter Eight of Bicycle Transportation. Seems
| to
| > indicate that 'THAT' isn't very inconsiderate and even less than your
| > 'fifteen seconds'. Did you blast the exhaust over pressure pedal,
a.k.a.
| > 'throttle' at them as you passed?
| >
| > Chill. Ride
|
| I don't understand. Are you saying there's some book out there that says
| it's OK to do what these riders were doing? If so, then it's stupid and
| it's going to get somebody killed. I was quite patient with it. I didn't
| honk, toot, gesture. I waited patiently until it was safe to pass, then I
| passed. But all the rude rider needed to do was ease over to single file
| for a second. It wouldn't have delayed him one bit and it would have
| allowed me to pass.
|
| The law where I live as that bicycles are to ride as far to the right as
| practicable. He wasn't doing that. Not even close. He was simply being
| rude and arrogant or he was clueless and he needs to get a clue. I was
| quite tempted to stop farther up the road and await his arrival so I could
| give him one. But my wife was along and she would not have approved.
| Incidentally, her comment to me as we passed the riders was, "I hope you
| don't ride like that." I assured her I didn't.
|
| Bob C.
|
|

"R15757" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<< ...Why don't you just move entirely into the opposing lane as if you

were

Quoted message said:

passing a slow moving 8 ft wide tractor?

Wayne >>

Why doesn't the jackass just move over a few feet?
What is so f***ing precious about being on a bike that
you can't move over a few feet?

We move over because we can. If there is enough
space in the lane for the passing car and a skinny-ass
bike, make it work. It's righteous to act as if there
were other people on the planet besides yourself.
Cooperate and make room, if possible, and if not, take
your lane and most drivers will understand.

Robert

Thank God there's at least one reasonable person here who understands!

Bob C.

"Patrick Lamb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:38:19 -0400, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage roadie.

The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane highways that

cuts

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

through our little area. There weren't any other cars on the stretch of
road I was traveling.

I came upon two cyclists on road gear and decked out as if they were
reasonably experienced riders. They were riding 2-abreast. They were

just

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dawdling along. The rider on the left was weaving all over. We were
approaching a crossroad, so I was afraid to pass because, the way they

were

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

riding, I couldn't be sure they wouldn't make a turn right in front of

me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Neither rider seemed interested in showing me any consideration

whatsoever.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Despite the very open road, I had to just sit in behind them and wait.

It's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not that it was any big deal to wait 15 seconds until we got past that
intersection, but I couldn't imagine being THAT rude and inconsiderate of
traffic.

I'd submit that it took you far longer to compose your original post
than it did to wait for those two rude, inconsiderate riders to clear
the intersection. And I'd hate to guess what multiple of that 15
second delay you've spent, let alone the rest of us, on follow-ups.

Based on the terrible, terrible anguish you've suffered by being
delayed for an entire 15 seconds on an otherwise empty road, when
you've chosen to live 20 miles away from your job and regularly cycle
to and from work... you're being unreasonable. Maybe you need a nap.
You'll feel better when you're rested.

Pat

Email address works as is.

Believe me ... the incident itself caused me very little anxiety. I merely
felt it would be constructive to share the experience and perhaps enlighten
some folks that the need to share the road is a 2-way street. But I've been
amazed at the responses I've received from people who a) weren't there, but
know better than I do what happened and/or b) feel the cyclist couldn't
possibly have done anything wrong.

In my view, the reasonable response to my post by a reasonable person would
be something like, "yes, we all have a responsibility to share the road and,
if it's no skin off our backs to move over and make room, we should do so."
But I've continued to read and respond on this thread because I've been so
amazed at the people who feel that there absolutely MUST be a rational
reason for the cyclist to have behaved the way he did. A cyclist simply
COULDN'T be rude and inconsiderate ... especially not where a driver in a
motor vehicle is involved ... even if the driver in the motor vehicle is a
VERY experienced cyclist, himself.

At least now I understand why I see so many people on club rides and at
centuries and stuff acting like complete asses by riding as if they own the
road.

Thanks to so many of you for confirming my opening premise ... that we are
our own worst enemies.

I'm done.

Bob C.

psycholist said:

"Patrick Lamb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:38:19 -0400, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage roadie.

The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane highways
that cuts through our little area. There weren't any other cars on
the stretch of road I was traveling.

I came upon two cyclists on road gear and decked out as if they were
reasonably experienced riders. They were riding 2-abreast. They
were just dawdling along. The rider on the left was weaving all
over. We were approaching a crossroad, so I was afraid to pass
because, the way they were riding, I couldn't be sure they wouldn't
make a turn right in front of me. Neither rider seemed interested
in showing me any consideration whatsoever. Despite the very open
road, I had to just sit in behind them and wait. It's not that it
was any big deal to wait 15 seconds until we got past that
intersection, but I couldn't imagine being THAT rude and
inconsiderate of traffic.

I'd submit that it took you far longer to compose your original post
than it did to wait for those two rude, inconsiderate riders to clear
the intersection. And I'd hate to guess what multiple of that 15
second delay you've spent, let alone the rest of us, on follow-ups.

Based on the terrible, terrible anguish you've suffered by being
delayed for an entire 15 seconds on an otherwise empty road, when
you've chosen to live 20 miles away from your job and regularly cycle
to and from work... you're being unreasonable. Maybe you need a
nap. You'll feel better when you're rested.

Pat

Email address works as is.

Believe me ... the incident itself caused me very little anxiety. I
merely felt it would be constructive to share the experience and
perhaps enlighten some folks that the need to share the road is a
2-way street. But I've been amazed at the responses I've received
from people who a) weren't there, but know better than I do what
happened and/or b) feel the cyclist couldn't possibly have done
anything wrong.

In my view, the reasonable response to my post by a reasonable person
would be something like, "yes, we all have a responsibility to share
the road and, if it's no skin off our backs to move over and make
room, we should do so." But I've continued to read and respond on
this thread because I've been so amazed at the people who feel that
there absolutely MUST be a rational reason for the cyclist to have
behaved the way he did. A cyclist simply COULDN'T be rude and
inconsiderate ... especially not where a driver in a motor vehicle is
involved ... even if the driver in the motor vehicle is a VERY
experienced cyclist, himself.

At least now I understand why I see so many people on club rides and
at centuries and stuff acting like complete asses by riding as if
they own the road.

Thanks to so many of you for confirming my opening premise ... that
we are our own worst enemies.

I'm done.

Bob C.

Well done. I've enjoyed following this thread and I am also surprised by the
illiteracy shown.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Finally! It is amazing! 'Asses' and 'enemies' because we disagree with you
and some are principled disagreements. Provincial, parochial,
self-righteous and ignorant. Over and out!

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
|
|
| At least now I understand why I see so many people on club rides and at
| centuries and stuff acting like complete asses by riding as if they own
the
| road.
|
| Thanks to so many of you for confirming my opening premise ... that we are
| our own worst enemies.
|
| I'm done.
|
| Bob C.
|
|

Psycholist said:

I came upon two cyclists on road gear and decked out as if they were
reasonably experienced riders. Bob C.

Have you ever heard the extression "All the gear and no idea".

Sounds like it suits you mobile obsticles.

--

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 02:10:36 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

To me, a revving engine sounds like an attempt to intimidate -- especially when
practiced by drivers of large pickup trucks and muscle cars, which themselves
are meant to be intimidating (usually, at least a little) -- and are usually the
ones who do this.

This is as much a hasty generalization as my gut-wrench reaction to
horns. I drive a full-size pickup, and know loads of others who do.
I have absolutely no interest in intimidating. I drive it for many
reasons; I could go on for pages, but categories include comfort,
work, play, and soon I may be towing a large camper with it too.

Some day, I'd love to drive a 1968 Camaro, with a big V8 and loud
exhaust, but it would most definitely be for fun.

I find that people driving retired police cars often admit that they
drive them for the intimidation factor; that's the car of choice for
those who enjoy that sort of thing.

I do care what others think of what I drive in the following ways:
- I don't want to be prejudged as a jerk or idiot, or scumbag kid
(econobox lowered with wheels sticking out a foot and a huge wing,
while the body rusts)
- With some vehicles, I do enjoy getting compliments on how it
looks (for example, added chrome on the pickup)
--
Rick Onanian

S o r n i said:

Anyone else notice that toward the end of a ride -- especially a long and/or
hard ride -- the "startle response" is greatly suppressed? More than a few

It would be nice to say this is a calming effect of riding, but for
me, it's a "I'm too damn tired to pedal, let alone flinch" effect.
--
Rick Onanian

maxo said:

A happy ping-piiiiiing is much
more jolly than a breathless "passing on the left!". Highly recommended.

Spoken "beep beep" is often enjoyed as humor. I suspect that
occasionally somebody is offended, as if I said "get out of the
way", but I think most understand...and I give 'em a goofy grin to
go along with it.
--
Rick Onanian

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:11:44 -0400, "GRL" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

What annoys the hell out of me is to be riding along at a nice clip and you
will come up on some idiot bikers (two or more is common) who have decided
to stop and service a bike or just have a little discussion while laying at
least one bike on the trail (it seems kick stands are extinct) blocking 2/3
of the trail oblivious to the world around them. There is a nice wide

I hate that too. A couple weeks ago, I approached a mother and
daughter with their bikes parked across the path. They were equipped
with kickstands, and used them to park exactly perpendicular, one
bike staggered forward to be sure of blocking the whole path, while
they stood on the remaining foot of pavement reading a plaque. You
might think the mother would like to instill some manners into her
child, or at least not demonstrate how to be rude (without noting
that it is, in fact, rude).

Of course, the usual complaint stands about induhvidiual
rollerbladers taking the _whole_ width of the path, because they
don't want to come within a foot of the edge...the skate right on
the centerline, using up half of each lane, leaving insufficient
room for a bicyclist to pass.
--
Rick Onanian

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 19:38:36 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

This happens to me a lot too. Even after three gentle 'admonishments' (and seeming agreement)
this group of three teenagers still kept stopping on the trail in a bunch, and
at blind corners, as well. Not much you can do, but sigh, and go on around them.

Crash into them. Be riding a very heavy beater bike at the time.
--
Rick Onanian

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 21:16:49 -0400, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lane. Why don't you just move entirely into the opposing lane as if you

Because AS I SAID, there was a crossroad ahead and I couldn't be sure what
the clown in the middle was going to do. I didn't want to pass him in the

Also, you said he was weaving side-to-side; IME, a cyclist doing
that is just as likely to weave all the way to the other side,
except if he sees _oncoming_ traffic. There's no excuse for weaving;
nobody, regardless of transportation mode, should be doing it.
--
Rick Onanian

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 19:38:36 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

This happens to me a lot too. Even after three gentle 'admonishments'

(and seeming agreement)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this group of three teenagers still kept stopping on the trail in a

bunch, and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

at blind corners, as well. Not much you can do, but sigh, and go on

around them.

Quoted message said:

Crash into them. Be riding a very heavy beater bike at the time.

I've used the technique of giving a very loopy expression (coupled with a
crazed grin) and yelling, "Coming through! COMING THROUGH!" I guess the
vision of a more demented version of their mothers, on a bicycle, is enough
to get them to pull over and get out of my way.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky