Cyclist rant

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
: They knew I was there. They just apparently didn't care.
:
: Bob C.

I'm not only with you, Bob, I'll raise you one:

IMHO, cyclists have a responsibility to be aware of their
surroundings, just as motorists do (or do many of us want
the rights, but not the responsibilities....). As soon as I
become aware of a car coming from behind (and that's pretty
soon, because I'm not afraid of using my helmet mirror), I
move. Problem solved. No motorists were enraged in the
making of this film....

I've been lambasted for this position on several occasions
before, and am perfectly happy to be lambasted again, but
before launching, ask one question: would the world be a
better place if all cyclists made a slight effort to
understand their impact on motorists (and if all motorists
made an effort to be aware of their impact on cyclists)?

Neil

Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:38:19 -0400, <[email hidden]>,

psycholist said:

He probably managed to tick off a good number of the rednecks
in pickups among whom I have to ride every day, so I'll have to watch my
backside more closely.

I wish cyclists weren't their own worst enemies so often.

Shove your myths.
--
zk

psycholist wrote:
:: "Doug Huffman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: I keyed on, "I couldn't imagine being THAT rude and inconsiderate
::: of| traffic." And remembered Chapter Eight of Bicycle
::: Transportation. Seems to indicate that 'THAT' isn't very
::: inconsiderate and even less than your 'fifteen seconds'. Did you
::: blast the exhaust over pressure pedal, a.k.a. 'throttle' at them as
::: you passed?
:::
::: Chill. Ride
::
:: I don't understand. Are you saying there's some book out there that
:: says it's OK to do what these riders were doing? If so, then it's
:: stupid and it's going to get somebody killed. I was quite patient
:: with it. I didn't honk, toot, gesture. I waited patiently until it
:: was safe to pass, then I passed. But all the rude rider needed to
:: do was ease over to single file for a second. It wouldn't have
:: delayed him one bit and it would have allowed me to pass.
::
:: The law where I live as that bicycles are to ride as far to the
:: right as practicable. He wasn't doing that. Not even close. He
:: was simply being rude and arrogant or he was clueless and he needs
:: to get a clue. I was quite tempted to stop farther up the road and
:: await his arrival so I could give him one. But my wife was along
:: and she would not have approved. Incidentally, her comment to me as
:: we passed the riders was, "I hope you don't ride like that." I
:: assured her I didn't.

I was out riding one Sunday morning...I saw a "pack" of team riders coming
from the opposite direction. These guys were in a bundle, like a bunch of
bees, taking up the entire wide lane in their direction. A car behind them
would have no choice but to wait or pass in the other lane.

One thing you didn't address in your OP was how wide the road was....i've
seen some pretty narrow two-lane hwys..if conditions were such that the
rider thought a car could not safely pass while sharing the lane, then the
rider may have felt justified in not getting to the side (for the same
reason you didn't feel good about getting entirely into the opposing lane).
Getting to the side is a sure-fire way to encourage a car to pass...I've
seen plenty of people do that to me...passing with bearly a foot of
clearance....but doing so because I was hugging the end of the shoulderless
road.

::
:: Bob C.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Craig Brossman said:

psycholist said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage roadie.

<snip all to typical experience>

Quoted message said:

Bob C.

As a roadie, mountain biker, and driver, I see this all too often as
well, and it pisses me off. I had a "local" driving against me in the
opposite lane last evening, as I was riding alone, up against the side
of the road, beep 3 times so that I would not miss his salute. I can

^^^^^

Quoted message said:

only imagine this was from experience with the likes of guys you

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

describe above,

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not necessarily. Some drivers just plain don't like bikes, period.

Quoted message said:

or he is just a [censored]-head.

Then again, what group doesn't have bad eggs which end up being our own
worst enemies? Unfortunately with our group, someone often pays with a
car/bike altercation, and the bike loses.

Fortunately, instances of drivers deliberately running down cyclists
are relatively rare (although apparently it does occasionally happen.)
I doubt the antics of a few riders has much effect on the chances of
any cyclist being randomly selected as a target by a murderous driver.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

S o r n i said:

David Reuteler said:

S o r n i said:

Bill "nothing wrong with giving 'em a friendly little toot?" S.

no such thing as a friendly toot, imo. rather like a friendly smack
upside the head. nothing wrong with a "you're being a jackass" toot,
tho.

I disagree with the first part. If someone is unaware that a car is
behind them and seeking to pass, a soft tap on the horn to alert them
doesn't seem particularly menacing or intimidating to me. (A full-on
honk is different, however.)

Bill "agree on the 'UB a jackass' toot, though" S.

Absolutely. There are friendly honkers just alerting us that they are
passing and there are hostile honkers trying to scare the [censored] out of us.
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

curt said:

No I didn't miss the point. I understand they were in your way and
rode tandem when they shouldn't have. They were wrong, but relax.
Look at what cyclist put up with really. It is worse than ever now
that people are in a rush to get no where and possibly the worst
invention for cyclists...the cell phone.

Relax. You got around them within seconds anyway. Give the guys a
break.

Curt

Hmm... I think Bob is right. You can't read.
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was out riding one Sunday morning...I saw a "pack" of team riders coming
from the opposite direction. These guys were in a bundle, like a bunch of
bees, taking up the entire wide lane in their direction. A car behind

them

Quoted message said:

would have no choice but to wait or pass in the other lane.

One thing you didn't address in your OP was how wide the road was....i've
seen some pretty narrow two-lane hwys..if conditions were such that the
rider thought a car could not safely pass while sharing the lane, then the
rider may have felt justified in not getting to the side (for the same
reason you didn't feel good about getting entirely into the opposing

lane).

Quoted message said:

Getting to the side is a sure-fire way to encourage a car to pass...I've
seen plenty of people do that to me...passing with bearly a foot of
clearance....but doing so because I was hugging the end of the

shoulderless

Quoted message said:

road.

I've ridden out in the middle of a lane to "claim" it if there was a curve
or some other reason it would be unsafe to pass. The only reason it was
unsafe to pass these two is because they were riding like morons. As I
said, there was a crossroad coming and I didn't want to go around because I
didn't trust that they wouldn't turn right in front of me. But they weren't
claiming the lane for that reason. They went straight. They were simply
being inconsiderate. They knew I was there and they just didn't care.

Anyway, the only reason I started this thread was not because I needed to
vent all this. It wasn't that big a deal. I just thought the example of
this might help other riders, particularly any newbies who may be lurking,
to be more considerate.

Sharing the road is a two-way street.

Bob C.

Per Elmsäter wrote:
:: S o r n i wrote:
::: David Reuteler wrote:
:::: S o r n i <[email hidden]> wrote:
::::: Bill "nothing wrong with giving 'em a friendly little toot?" S.
::::
:::: no such thing as a friendly toot, imo. rather like a friendly
:::: smack upside the head. nothing wrong with a "you're being a
:::: jackass" toot, tho.
:::
::: I disagree with the first part. If someone is unaware that a car is
::: behind them and seeking to pass, a soft tap on the horn to alert
::: them doesn't seem particularly menacing or intimidating to me. (A
::: full-on honk is different, however.)
:::
::: Bill "agree on the 'UB a jackass' toot, though" S.
::
:: Absolutely. There are friendly honkers just alerting us that they are
:: passing and there are hostile honkers trying to scare the [censored] out
:: of us. --

Yes, I encountered both in my short time riding....Luckily for me, most are
in the former group.

Your rant calls up my own favorite rant and it does not even involve cars. I
mostly ride on a rail trail, so cars are not an issue. We are just bikers,
roller-bladers and the occasional pedestrian.

What annoys the hell out of me is to be riding along at a nice clip and you
will come up on some idiot bikers (two or more is common) who have decided
to stop and service a bike or just have a little discussion while laying at
least one bike on the trail (it seems kick stands are extinct) blocking 2/3
of the trail oblivious to the world around them. There is a nice wide
grassy shoulder on both sides of the trail all along it. The county keeps it
well manicured. There are no "keep of the grass" signs. Yet the many of bike
riders think it is just fine to block the trail when they stop, not even
moving to the side.

The all time champion was the bunch of teen-aged kids who laid their bikes
across 2/3 of the trail near a bridge they had been fishing from and the
wise man of the bunch stood next to a bike, in the center of the trail,
holding his fishing rod out to block the remaining 1/3 of the trail that
they and they and their bikes were not already blocking. Didn't see the rod
until I was too close to stop (would you expect to see your path blocked by
a fishing rod help by a teen-ager?) and tried to go around it, slipped off
the edge of the pavement and went down getting a nasty gash on the knee.Was
sorely tempted to break the kid's rod in half and fling his bike off the
bridge. With him on it. Should have done it, too.

People complain about bad manners by car drivers. Same kind of inconsiderate
behavior is at least as common with bike riders in my experience. And I
don't mean just kids.

--

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage roadie.

The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane highways that cuts
through our little area. There weren't any other cars on the stretch of
road I was traveling.

I came upon two cyclists on road gear and decked out as if they were
reasonably experienced riders. They were riding 2-abreast. They were

just

Quoted message said:

dawdling along. The rider on the left was weaving all over. We were
approaching a crossroad, so I was afraid to pass because, the way they

were

Quoted message said:

riding, I couldn't be sure they wouldn't make a turn right in front of me.
Neither rider seemed interested in showing me any consideration

whatsoever.

Quoted message said:

Despite the very open road, I had to just sit in behind them and wait.

It's

Quoted message said:

not that it was any big deal to wait 15 seconds until we got past that
intersection, but I couldn't imagine being THAT rude and inconsiderate of
traffic. When I ride with friends, we ride 2 abreast and talk often

enough,

Quoted message said:

but if we're on a more major highway and/or if we know there's traffic
approaching from behind, we always fall in single file.

But here's this inconsiderate jerk just blocking me for no reason
whatsoever. He probably managed to tick off a good number of the rednecks
in pickups among whom I have to ride every day, so I'll have to watch my
backside more closely.

I wish cyclists weren't their own worst enemies so often.

Bob C.

GRL said:

What annoys the hell out of me is to be riding along at a nice clip and you
will come up on some idiot bikers (two or more is common) who have decided
to stop and service a bike or just have a little discussion while laying at
least one bike on the trail

This happens to me a lot too. Even after three gentle 'admonishments' (and seeming agreement)
this group of three teenagers still kept stopping on the trail in a bunch, and
at blind corners, as well. Not much you can do, but sigh, and go on around them.

-Badger

psycholist said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage roadie.

The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane highways that cuts
through our little area. There weren't any other cars on the stretch of
road I was traveling.

If there were no other cars, then why was it so hard for you to pass?

You assume a priori that bicyclists must allow motorists to pass within THEIR
lane. Why don't you just move entirely into the opposing lane as if you were
passing a slow moving 8 ft wide tractor?

Wayne

Quoted message said:

The law where I live as that bicycles are to ride as far to the right as
practicable. He wasn't doing that. Not even close. He was simply being
rude and arrogant or he was clueless and he needs to get a clue. I was
quite tempted to stop farther up the road and await his arrival so I could
give him one. But my wife was along and she would not have approved.
Incidentally, her comment to me as we passed the riders was, "I hope you
don't ride like that." I assured her I didn't.

The as far right as practicable rule is largely misunderstood, and is typically
poorly written.

Suffice it to say that the BICYCLIST determines what is practicable, not you or
anybody else.

Wayne

--
Wayne Pein
Bicycling Matters
[email hidden]

www.humantransport.org
www.bicyclinglife.com

"Wayne Pein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The law where I live as that bicycles are to ride as far to the right as
practicable. He wasn't doing that. Not even close. He was simply

being

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rude and arrogant or he was clueless and he needs to get a clue. I was
quite tempted to stop farther up the road and await his arrival so I

could

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

give him one. But my wife was along and she would not have approved.
Incidentally, her comment to me as we passed the riders was, "I hope you
don't ride like that." I assured her I didn't.

The as far right as practicable rule is largely misunderstood, and is

typically

Quoted message said:

poorly written.

Suffice it to say that the BICYCLIST determines what is practicable, not

you or

Quoted message said:

anybody else.

Wayne

--
Wayne Pein
Bicycling Matters
[email hidden]

www.humantransport.org
www.bicyclinglife.com

Did you bother to read the original post?

Bob C.

"Wayne Pein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

psycholist said:

I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage roadie.

The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane highways that

cuts

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

through our little area. There weren't any other cars on the stretch of
road I was traveling.

If there were no other cars, then why was it so hard for you to pass?

You assume a priori that bicyclists must allow motorists to pass within

THEIR

Quoted message said:

lane. Why don't you just move entirely into the opposing lane as if you

were

Quoted message said:

passing a slow moving 8 ft wide tractor?

Wayne

Because AS I SAID, there was a crossroad ahead and I couldn't be sure what
the clown in the middle was going to do. I didn't want to pass him in the
opposite lane or anywhere given that he was being so oblivious. I was
afraid he might turn right in front of me. (He didn't. He went straight.)

You sound all high and mighty in the posts you've made on this thread. Had
you been there, you'd have clearly seen that there was no excuse for this
riders behavior. He wasn't riding as far to the right as pracitcable by ANY
stretch of anyone's imagination. And don't try to tell me what I assume.
I assume that sharing the road is supposed to be just that ... sharing. I'm
a cyclist and I try to ride with consideration for the cars that also are
entitled to the road. This particular cyclist that I encountered acted like
the road was all his and screw everybody else. I'm learning from some of
the unbelieveable posts on this thread that there are a whole lot of you out
there who apparently feel all people in cars are evil and that people on
bicycles can do no wrong.

I'll bet that, when it suits you, you all sheepishly drive around in big
gas-guzzling cars, talk on cell phones while you're driving and eat Big
Mac's at the same time.

Bob C.

psycholist wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: I was out riding one Sunday morning...I saw a "pack" of team riders
::: coming from the opposite direction. These guys were in a bundle,
::: like a bunch of bees, taking up the entire wide lane in their
::: direction. A car behind them would have no choice but to wait or
::: pass in the other lane.
:::
::: One thing you didn't address in your OP was how wide the road
::: was....i've seen some pretty narrow two-lane hwys..if conditions
::: were such that the rider thought a car could not safely pass while
::: sharing the lane, then the rider may have felt justified in not
::: getting to the side (for the same reason you didn't feel good about
::: getting entirely into the opposing lane). Getting to the side is a
::: sure-fire way to encourage a car to pass...I've seen plenty of
::: people do that to me...passing with bearly a foot of
::: clearance....but doing so because I was hugging the end of the
::: shoulderless road.
::
:: I've ridden out in the middle of a lane to "claim" it if there was a
:: curve or some other reason it would be unsafe to pass. The only
:: reason it was unsafe to pass these two is because they were riding
:: like morons. As I said, there was a crossroad coming and I didn't
:: want to go around because I didn't trust that they wouldn't turn
:: right in front of me. But they weren't claiming the lane for that
:: reason. They went straight. They were simply being inconsiderate.
:: They knew I was there and they just didn't care.
::
:: Anyway, the only reason I started this thread was not because I
:: needed to vent all this. It wasn't that big a deal. I just thought
:: the example of this might help other riders, particularly any
:: newbies who may be lurking, to be more considerate.

Then you achieved your goal where I'm concerned 🙂

::
:: Sharing the road is a two-way street.

True.

psycholist wrote:
:: "Wayne Pein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: psycholist wrote:
:::
:::: I live in a very rural area and I'm a high-mileage roadie.
::::
:::: The other day I was driving down one of the main 2-lane highways
:::: that cuts through our little area. There weren't any other cars
:::: on the stretch of road I was traveling.
::::
:::
::: If there were no other cars, then why was it so hard for you to
::: pass?
:::
::: You assume a priori that bicyclists must allow motorists to pass
::: within THEIR lane. Why don't you just move entirely into the
::: opposing lane as if you were passing a slow moving 8 ft wide
::: tractor?
:::
::: Wayne
:::
::
:: Because AS I SAID, there was a crossroad ahead and I couldn't be
:: sure what the clown in the middle was going to do. I didn't want to
:: pass him in the opposite lane or anywhere given that he was being so
:: oblivious. I was afraid he might turn right in front of me. (He
:: didn't. He went straight.)
::
:: You sound all high and mighty in the posts you've made on this
:: thread. Had you been there, you'd have clearly seen that there was
:: no excuse for this riders behavior. He wasn't riding as far to the
:: right as pracitcable by ANY stretch of anyone's imagination. And
:: don't try to tell me what I assume. I assume that sharing the road
:: is supposed to be just that ... sharing. I'm a cyclist and I try to
:: ride with consideration for the cars that also are entitled to the
:: road. This particular cyclist that I encountered acted like the
:: road was all his and screw everybody else. I'm learning from some
:: of the unbelieveable posts on this thread that there are a whole lot
:: of you out there who apparently feel all people in cars are evil and
:: that people on bicycles can do no wrong.
::
:: I'll bet that, when it suits you, you all sheepishly drive around in
:: big gas-guzzling cars, talk on cell phones while you're driving and
:: eat Big Mac's at the same time.

You tell 'em, Bob! 🙂

Rick Onanian said:

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 18:07:17 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

no such thing as a friendly toot, imo.

I disagree, but how a horn is interpreted depends on where you are.

Sounds reasonable, but I think it's also a matter of who you are.
I'm often startled by even a minor blip from a horn, and often
offended, even if I think it wasn't supposed to be offensive.

If more people did it (when appropriate), it wouldn't be so startling.

Quoted message said:

As such, I temporarily got in the habit of revving my engine to
notify others with a less sharp noise, but apparently most people
believe that to be an obnoxious "I'm trying to race" noise.

Seems to me, the
___...---***```***---...___
pattern of engine revving sound is more gentle than the
***************************
pattern of even a short honk, but well...that's just me.

To me, a revving engine sounds like an attempt to intimidate -- especially when
practiced by drivers of large pickup trucks and muscle cars, which themselves
are meant to be intimidating (usually, at least a little) -- and are usually the
ones who do this.

On an organized ride the other day, I heard an engine-revver harassing a rider a
few dozen yards behind me. It went on for a few minutes as we all climbed a big
hill -- a rather obnoxious display. We were probably keeping him from getting
his cigarettes at the convenience store up the road.

A little toot is OK. I often don't hear cars behind me, especially if I'm
riding into the wind.

Matt O.

Quoted message said:

"psycholist" [email hidden]

wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

I came upon two cyclists on road gear and decked out as if they were
reasonably experienced riders. They were riding 2-abreast. They were just
dawdling along. The rider on the left was weaving all over. We were
approaching a crossroad, so I was afraid to pass because...

---snip---

Is it possible that they were "taking the lane" for the very reasons you
hesitated to pull into the opposing lane and pass them? If you couldn't be sure
neither of them was going to turn in front of you, how could they be sure you
wouldn't "right hook" them at the crossroads? Has your caution never delayed a
motorist by a few seconds when you are riding?
What seems to get your blood boiling the most about this incident is that you
interpreted their actions as intentionally rude and inconsiderate. Maybe they
were and maybe they weren't. Who knows and even if they were... so what? Let it
go.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

<< ...Why don't you just move entirely into the opposing lane as if you were
passing a slow moving 8 ft wide tractor?

Wayne >>

Why doesn't the jackass just move over a few feet?
What is so f***ing precious about being on a bike that
you can't move over a few feet?

We move over because we can. If there is enough
space in the lane for the passing car and a skinny-ass
bike, make it work. It's righteous to act as if there
were other people on the planet besides yourself.
Cooperate and make room, if possible, and if not, take
your lane and most drivers will understand.

Robert

Wayne wrote:

<< The as far right as practicable rule is largely misunderstood, and is
typically
poorly written.

Suffice it to say that the BICYCLIST determines what is practicable, not you or
anybody else. >>

This is true. But the constant abuse of this prerogative makes cyclists look
like asses.

Robert