Cyclist & Pedestrian

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cycling along yesterday, big wide open two lane road, no traffic around.
Pedestrian starts to cross the road. Lad on mountain bike passes me
and a wonderful dance ensued in which given the entire width of two
lanes to play with, the two managed to collide with each other in the
middle of the road. My only thought was how on earth could they _not_
manage to avoid each other given all that space?

Tony

Not a direct answer, but one reason I am a great fan of the Zounds air horn
is that pedestrians listen and don't look.
They will step off the pavement without a care in the world when you are
gliding towards them at 15-20 mph. under the assumption that because they
can't hear a car there is nothing coming.
You can normally anticipate this and brake sharply, but in the interest of
smooth riding it is much easier to 'toot' them before they get too far off
the pavement.

In answer to your question - the bike should have stopped, the pedestrian
should have stood still to give the bike a chance to avoid him/her. However
people don't always make rational decisions when under stress.

Cheers

Dave R

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cycling along yesterday, big wide open two lane road, no traffic around.
Pedestrian starts to cross the road. Lad on mountain bike passes me
and a wonderful dance ensued in which given the entire width of two
lanes to play with, the two managed to collide with each other in the
middle of the road. My only thought was how on earth could they _not_
manage to avoid each other given all that space?

The cyclist made the mistake of trying to cycle *round* the ped. Best to head
straight towards the ped and watch them jump out of the way! ;-)

Tony Raven said:

Quoted message said:

My only thought was how on earth could they _not_ manage to avoid each

other given all that space?

This is an example of a well known effect of our brains...

If we see an obstacle and look at it, something our brain overrides us and
we actually steer toward it - it's a subconscious thing whose effect is
subtle, but very real (and scientifically measured).

The next time you see a hazard, look just to its left/right and magically
you'll stand a better chance of avoiding it.

--
Kev

Adrian Boliston said:

The cyclist made the mistake of trying to cycle *round* the ped. Best to head
straight towards the ped and watch them jump out of the way! ;-)

This works with suicide squirrels! In the spring there were loads of
them on the cycle path I take to work. As you bear down on them, rather
than just leave the cycle path, evolution has apparently taught them to
stay put until the last second and then jump a small distance to the
side. Unfortunately, whichever side I try to pass them, thats always the
way they jump. I soon learned that the best way to avoid them is to head
straight for them, then whichever way they jump it can't be wrong.

Kevin Stone said:

Tony Raven said:

Quoted message said:

My only thought was how on earth could they _not_ manage to avoid each

other given all that space?

This is an example of a well known effect of our brains...

If we see an obstacle and look at it, something our brain overrides us and
we actually steer toward it - it's a subconscious thing

Nothing subconscious about it when i'm on the Trice ;-)

And they've always managed to jump out of the way .....so far :-(

John B

Adrian Boliston said:

The cyclist made the mistake of trying to cycle *round* the ped. Best to head
straight towards the ped and watch them jump out of the way! ;-)

I could easily have run down a blind kid this evening!

I could see two teenagers walking towards me, far enough apart that I
couldn't tell whether they were together (it later turned out that they
were). The one in front just looked like an average 16-year-old walking
along without looking where he was going. He also seemed to be prodding
the bushes at the side of the path with a stick.

He was on my left, so I moved across to the right to go past him. He
was walking towards me, so I figured he must have seen me and didn't
think about ringing my bell. I'm always wary of kids with sticks, so I
watched him very closely as I approached.

Just as I was about to pass him, the stick swept across the path and he
stepped in front of me. I was already covering the brakes anyway, and
didn't have to slam them on to stop in time. As I was sitting
stationary a foot from him, it became apparent that he had absolutely no
idea I was there. Then I realised that the stick he was carrying looked
as though it was once white, before the paint cracked and peeled.

Then his sister or girlfriend told him there was a bike in front of him.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Adrian Boliston said:

The cyclist made the mistake of trying to cycle *round* the ped. Best to head
straight towards the ped and watch them jump out of the way! ;-)

I think they both made the mistake of trying to avoid each other. It
wasn't that either had not seen the other, it was just the fateful dance
as each move one made was countered by a move the other made.

Tony

Adrian Boliston said:

Quoted message said:

The cyclist made the mistake of trying to cycle *round* the ped. Best
to head
straight towards the ped and watch them jump out of the way! ;-)

and Ben responded:

Quoted message said:

This works with suicide squirrels! In the spring there were loads of
them on the cycle path I take to work. As you bear down on them, rather
than just leave the cycle path, evolution has apparently taught them to
stay put until the last second and then jump a small distance to the
side. Unfortunately, whichever side I try to pass them, thats always the
way they jump. I soon learned that the best way to avoid them is to head
straight for them, then whichever way they jump it can't be wrong.

Squirrels seem - not unreasonably - to see a large object moving towards
them as a possible predator. Their usual predator evasion technique
(IME) is to dash back and forth in front of the predator so that the
predator has no idea which way the squirrel will eventually go.

I still find it difficult to aim straight at them, but it seems to be
the safest thing to do. I've only ever hit a couple of squirrels - one
of those successfully crossed in front of my front wheel, then doubled
back to be run over by the back wheel!

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

I said:

I still find it difficult to aim straight at them, but it seems to be
the safest thing to do. I've only ever hit a couple of squirrels - one
of those successfully crossed in front of my front wheel, then doubled
back to be run over by the back wheel!

I meant to add that I read somewhere about a family of cyclists who,
after one of them commented that squirrels were "[censored]" (sic, they
were American), took to using the word "squirrel" as a euphemism for a
certain type of person.

I liked that, and I too now derive a certain amount of satisfaction from
describing someone as a squirrel.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Danny Colyer <[email hidden]> wrote in news:cdp800$95u$2
@news8.svr.pol.co.uk:

Quoted message said:

I liked that, and I too now derive a certain amount of satisfaction from
describing someone as a squirrel.

Hands up everyone who did a quick Google to see if Danny had called anyone
a squirrel on URC? Or was that just me? Anyway, you can all breath a sigh
of relief, he hasn't... yet. ;-)

Graeme

Danny Colyer said:

Adrian Boliston said:

Quoted message said:

The cyclist made the mistake of trying to cycle *round* the ped. Best
to head
straight towards the ped and watch them jump out of the way! ;-)

and Ben responded:

Quoted message said:

This works with suicide squirrels! In the spring there were loads of
them on the cycle path I take to work. As you bear down on them, rather
than just leave the cycle path, evolution has apparently taught them to
stay put until the last second and then jump a small distance to the
side. Unfortunately, whichever side I try to pass them, thats always the
way they jump. I soon learned that the best way to avoid them is to head
straight for them, then whichever way they jump it can't be wrong.

Squirrels seem - not unreasonably - to see a large object moving towards
them as a possible predator. Their usual predator evasion technique
(IME) is to dash back and forth in front of the predator so that the
predator has no idea which way the squirrel will eventually go.

Another possible technique would be to run in a straight line directly
away from the predator. I always wonder whether this is why sheep run down
the road in front of cars, rather than out sideways...

AC

David W.E. Roberts said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cycling along yesterday, big wide open two lane road, no traffic around.
Pedestrian starts to cross the road. Lad on mountain bike passes me
and a wonderful dance ensued in which given the entire width of two
lanes to play with, the two managed to collide with each other in the
middle of the road. My only thought was how on earth could they _not_
manage to avoid each other given all that space?

Tony

Not a direct answer, but one reason I am a great fan of the Zounds air horn
is that pedestrians listen and don't look.
They will step off the pavement without a care in the world when you are
gliding towards them at 15-20 mph. under the assumption that because they
can't hear a car there is nothing coming.
You can normally anticipate this and brake sharply, but in the interest of
smooth riding it is much easier to 'toot' them before they get too far off
the pavement.

In answer to your question - the bike should have stopped, the pedestrian
should have stood still to give the bike a chance to avoid him/her. However
people don't always make rational decisions when under stress.

i remind them my brother has a very very quiet electric car

Steve

anonymous coward said:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:51:36 +0100, Danny I always wonder whether this is why sheep run down
the road in front of cars, rather than out sideways...

AC

Not just cars, some of the road I ride on have open ranges where the sheep and sometimes cows are free to roam the road. [Their droppings present another problem especially on roads seldom used by motors] Often they get started and jump into ones path just when one thinks its safe to pass them. I have taken to shouting, screaming and barking at them. A simple whistle usually works for pedestrians though.

anonymous coward [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Another possible technique would be to run in a straight line directly
away from the predator. I always wonder whether this is why sheep run down
the road in front of cars, rather than out sideways...

Evolution tends not to favour this. Most predators are exceptionally
good straight sprinters. Cornering and confusion seem to be most
effective.

Jon

MSeries said:

anonymous coward said:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:51:36 +0100, Danny I always wonder whether this
is why sheep run down
the road in front of cars, rather than out sideways...

AC

Not just cars, some of the road I ride on have open ranges where the
sheep and sometimes cows are free to roam the road. [Their droppings
present another problem especially on roads seldom used by motors]
Often they get started and jump into ones path just when one thinks its
safe to pass them. I have taken to shouting, screaming and barking at
them. A simple whistle usually works for pedestrians though.

I think in the animal world its considered bad form to approach people,
ermm animals, without making some sort of noise to announce your
presence. Certainly a good idea when passing among cows, quite a few
people die each year from being trampled by them.

Jon Senior said:

anonymous coward [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Another possible technique would be to run in a straight line directly
away from the predator. I always wonder whether this is why sheep run down
the road in front of cars, rather than out sideways...

Evolution tends not to favour this. Most predators are exceptionally
good straight sprinters. Cornering and confusion seem to be most
effective.

Jon

I think sheep have evolved to run away from predators in a tight group.
The sheep that runs slowest or happens to be at the back is expendable.
In this situation, suddenly darting off to the side and leaving the
group would be suicide.

Tony Raven said:

Cycling along yesterday, big wide open two lane road, no traffic around.
Pedestrian starts to cross the road. Lad on mountain bike passes me
and a wonderful dance ensued in which given the entire width of two
lanes to play with, the two managed to collide with each other in the
middle of the road. My only thought was how on earth could they _not_
manage to avoid each other given all that space?

Ask a Jaguar pilot, it's called "target fixation"

quote='Marc'On Thu said:

Cycling along yesterday, big wide open two lane road, no traffic around.
Pedestrian starts to cross the road. Lad on mountain bike passes me
and a wonderful dance ensued in which given the entire width of two
lanes to play with, the two managed to collide with each other in the
middle of the road. My only thought was how on earth could they _not_
manage to avoid each other given all that space?

Ask a Jaguar pilot, it's called "target fixation"[/QUOTE]

I know I often ride where there are low flying aircraft but so far none have presented the same problem as sheep ! ;-)

in message <[email hidden]>, anonymous

coward (') said:

Danny Colyer said:

Adrian Boliston said:

> The cyclist made the mistake of trying to cycle *round* the ped.
> Best to head
> straight towards the ped and watch them jump out of the way! ;-)

and Ben responded:

Quoted message said:

This works with suicide squirrels! In the spring there were loads of
them on the cycle path I take to work. As you bear down on them,
rather than just leave the cycle path, evolution has apparently
taught them to stay put until the last second and then jump a small
distance to the side. Unfortunately, whichever side I try to pass
them, thats always the way they jump. I soon learned that the best
way to avoid them is to head straight for them, then whichever way
they jump it can't be wrong.

Squirrels seem - not unreasonably - to see a large object moving
towards
them as a possible predator. Their usual predator evasion technique
(IME) is to dash back and forth in front of the predator so that the
predator has no idea which way the squirrel will eventually go.

Another possible technique would be to run in a straight line directly
away from the predator. I always wonder whether this is why sheep run
down the road in front of cars, rather than out sideways...

Sheep are bulky animals. They can run quite fast down a smooth path, and
they can jump remarkably well, but they can't run fast through heather,
moorland grass or scrub. So if you spook them on a narrow path they
will tend to run madly down the path rather than turning off it. Hares
are similar in this.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Age equals angst multiplied by the speed of fright squared.
;; the Worlock