Cyclist hit by car - advice please

[Tumbleweed]

"Andy Leighton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:51:25 -0000, T
> umbleweed <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>><snip>
>>>>
>>>
>>> As a motorist who pays her insurance premiums I get tee'd off with those
>>> who don't as effectively the cost is passed along to those of us who do,
>>> by way of increased premiums. I wish there was someway of effectively
>>> making uninsured motoring socially & economically unacceptable.
>>>
>>
>>
>> There is we just arent prepared to do it ..random stops, no insurance =
>> car
>> confiscated and not returned until fine paid , second offence=jail. No
>> exceptions, not even for chief constables.
>
> Well there is the trial use of ANPR for this which was on the news
> the other week. It caught an amazing number of people including
> a commercial vehicle belonging to a clamping firm.

Thats good if it leads to action. The difference is between how many are
'caught' and how many get a derisory fine once caught. Unless you take their
vehicles away,and put them in prison if they reoffend, its a waste of time.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

 

[John_Kane]

Tumbleweed wrote:
> "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> <snip>
> >>
> >
> > As a motorist who pays her insurance premiums I get tee'd off with those
> > who don't as effectively the cost is passed along to those of us who do,
> > by way of increased premiums. I wish there was someway of effectively
> > making uninsured motoring socially & economically unacceptable>
>
> There is we just arent prepared to do it ..random stops, no insurance =car
> confiscated and not returned until fine paid , second offence=jail. No
> exceptions, not even for chief constables.

One of our local (well semi-local) rags had a long article on just
that a day or so ago. Apparently the police are a bit frustrated that
they cannot do more for driving offenses. IIRC we have a about CDN$50
million in unpaid fines in the povince and the law does not allow them
to take really effective action. For one or two offenses they can grab
the car but the driver or his/her agent can get it back fairly easily.


The reporter descibed one incident where the police stopped a speeder
with several outstanding fines, no registration in the car (an office
here) and no insurance. He issued something like CDN$7,000 in fines
but which have no real incentive to be paid, and had the car towed
away but I understood correctly there was nothing much else he could do
to the driver.

She just got someone to pick her up and drive her to work though she
was reported as saying it was a bad start to the morning.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

 

[Peter Moss]

"al Mossah" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all,
>
> Yesterday on his way back from his paper-round my son was hit by a car
> entering the mini roundabout from his left as my son went straight on.
> Thankfully he has emerged from it with a bruised leg and an enhanced sense
> of his own vulnerability.
>
> The driver plus 2 witnesses stopped and made sure he was OK. On his
> return home, we reported it to the police, who have decided to take no
> action, not even to contact the driver,despite concluding to us that it
> appeared to be 100% driver error.
>
> I'm not necessarily asking for a prosecution here; provided that the
> driver is feeling somewhat chastened and will drive with due care and
> attention in future, I'm happy. However, I feel that the least he
> deserves is to have a policeman sit in his lounge and explain to him the
> error of his ways.
>
> Am I within my rights to request this? I'm going to anyway, but wondered
> if anyone had had similar experience.
>
> Unfortunately I was not present when Wiltshire's finest suggested to my
> son that he push his bike across the junction from now on.
>
> Peter.
>
Thanks all for the advice and sympathy. Son was able to attend school on
the day following the incident, and in fact had spent most of the Sunday
regailing his friends at school of his lucky escape. He used it as an
excuse to get lots of sympathetic hugs from his many female admirers. Today
(next paper-round) was very foggy and icy, so he went out with high vis
everything, and made it round with no problems.

Witnesses both said that driver was 100% at fault; one couldn't believe what
he was seeing as the driver accelerated into the roundabout into a cyclist.

I rang the driver concerned, and am convinced that he has sufficient
empathic powers to relate my son's fate to that of his two similarly aged
children. As a result he is questioning his own driving skills, and is
certainly being more careful. The roads around Chippenham have become
ever-so-slightly safer as a result. Consequently I don't intend to take it
any further.

Off topic slightly, that particular mini roundabout has two lanes
approaching it from the direction my son took. The left-hand lane has an
arrow on the road indicating that one should turn left; the right-hand lane
has a similar arrow, but indicating that one should turn right. When the
local council introduced this farcility in 2003, I wrote to them asking in
which lane one should approach if one intended going straight on. I wrote
at the time that the signage was ambiguous, and motorists could
mis-interpret the intentions of a cyclist who was in the right (or left)
lane. They suggested that it was clear in which lane one should approach.

I'd appreciate the wisdom of uk.rec.cycling to tell me in which lane one
should approach and why. Prizes for giving the same answer and reason as
Wiltshire Country Council will be viewed with deep suspicion.

Peter.

 

[[email protected]]

'I'm not necessarily asking for a prosecution here; provided that the
driver is feeling somewhat chastened and will drive with due care and
attention in future, I'm happy. However, I feel that the least he
deserves is to have a policeman sit in his lounge and explain to him
the error of his ways.'

The main problems is that this would require some sort of effort on the
part of the police and their general attitude is most likely to be that
the 'have better things to do with their time'. (Hassling beggars and
fining 'pavement cyclists' perhaps). Unfortunately, many forces now
only seem to want to follow up such driving crimes when a cyclist has
been put either into a coffin or a wheelchair.

(And sometimes not even then, a friend of mine lost a leg this year
after being run down on a roundabout by a lorry. Independent witnesses
verified that he was knocked off as a result of being hit by the cab of
the lorry- a very different story to what the driver claimed- and yet
the police showed no interest whatsoever in bringing charges).

It's a very poor situation when drivers are never brought to account
for careless or inconsiderate driving unless they have killed or
maimed, (and og course in such cases the fact they have killed or
maimed will be ignored and the penalty will be the same as if their
driving had simply led to another car being dented). However, I don't
know what can be done to change things.

The 'Great British Motorist' is practically above the law and it seems
there is no political will anywhere to hold drivers properly
accountable for their actions. The lack of action by the police will
probably reinforce the drivers view that he didn't really do anything
wrong. All you can really do is hope that the witnesses will support
you in a civil claim against the driver's insurance company. At least a
successful claim, no matter how small, will give the message to the
driver that he was in the wrong, even if the police won't.

 

[Marc Brett]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 18:01:24 -0000, "Peter Moss" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I rang the driver concerned, and am convinced that he has sufficient
>empathic powers to relate my son's fate to that of his two similarly aged
>children. As a result he is questioning his own driving skills, and is
>certainly being more careful. The roads around Chippenham have become
>ever-so-slightly safer as a result. Consequently I don't intend to take it
>any further.

Just "being more careful" may not be adequate, or long-lasting. Practical
driver training from a qualified professional does a much better job, IME, even
for very experienced drivers who will inevitably pick up bad habits which are
difficult to recognize by themselves. It may be too late now, but I'd be
inclined to put his money where his good intentions are and demand proof of such
training in exchange for not calling in the land sharks.

 

[Peter Fox]

Following on from Peter Moss's message. . .

>I'd appreciate the wisdom of uk.rec.cycling to tell me in which lane one
>should approach and why. Prizes for giving the same answer and reason as
>Wiltshire Country Council will be viewed with deep suspicion.

(1)
In /this particular case/ was the "100% at fault" driver confused by
these markings or were they really just NBG at driving? Probably the
latter.

(2)
A mini-roundabout should not have more than one lane /going round it/.
If it has multiple entrance lanes then it should be designed, designated
and driver as a full roundabout. A typical 'fix' used by Essex County
Council near me for example is to add a couple of metres to the diameter
of the centre spot with cones (which could be done in a couple of hours)
then increase the circle size permanently.

(3)
I get the impression from your description that there are four arms.
This shouldn't then be a 'mini' but a 'proper'. More enlightened
highway engineers should be able to point out the reasons in
short-order.

(4)
If you feel WCC are a hopeless bunch of [you know what goes here!] then
write/fax the _chief executive_ and ask why this facility is like it is
and also ask for the 'STATS19' data for the area and also the safety
audit. (All FOI if a problem). This will let them know you are
serious. Then ask the DfT to investigate.





--
PETER FOX Not the same since the deckchair business folded
[email protected]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

 

[Simon Mason]

"Peter Moss" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
> Thanks all for the advice and sympathy. Son was able to attend school on
> the day following the incident, and in fact had spent most of the Sunday
> regailing his friends at school of his lucky escape. He used it as an
> excuse to get lots of sympathetic hugs from his many female admirers.
> Today (next paper-round) was very foggy and icy, so he went out with high
> vis everything, and made it round with no problems.

Glad your son is OK. Mini roundabouts can be a death trap, the number of
cars that have failed to give way coming in from my left is frightening. I
could have been dead many times over had I not assumed most of them will not
stop and allowed for it.

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

 

[Dave Larrington]

Simon Mason <[email protected]> wrote:


> Glad your son is OK. Mini roundabouts can be a death trap, the number
> of cars that have failed to give way coming in from my left is
> frightening. I could have been dead many times over had I not assumed
> most of them will not stop and allowed for it.

They have put in a Several of these wretched things in the vicinity of
Larrington Towers recently. The one thing they seem to share is that
inconveniently-placed buildings make it /very/ difficult to see whether
anything is approaching from one's right, which is particularly bleanous on
one, as I approach it downhill.

Something which is squarely in the Land of Odd, though, is that twice now I
have been approaching said roundabout by bicycle and had the motorcar
entering on my right attempt to give way to me. What's /that/ all about,
eh?

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
If you are choking on an ice cube, simply pour a jug of boiling water
down your throat and presto! The blockage is almost instantly removed.

 

[wafflycat]

"Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> Something which is squarely in the Land of Odd, though, is that twice now
> I have been approaching said roundabout by bicycle and had the motorcar
> entering on my right attempt to give way to me. What's /that/ all about,
> eh?
>

If you are sur le 'bent, p'raps they think you are disabled and don't want
to be mentioned in the press for killing a disabled person... wot with it
coming up to the Season Of Goodwill To All Men and all that

Cheers, helen s

 

[Simon Mason]

"Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Something which is squarely in the Land of Odd, though, is that twice now
> I have been approaching said roundabout by bicycle and had the motorcar
> entering on my right attempt to give way to me. What's /that/ all about,
> eh?

That's just as annoying - you brake to give way to them, come to a stop and
wait for them to realise that it's their right of way. Usually when the car
behind them sounds its horn.

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

 

[Dave Larrington]

wafflycat <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote:

> "Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> Something which is squarely in the Land of Odd, though, is that
>> twice now I have been approaching said roundabout by bicycle and had
>> the motorcar entering on my right attempt to give way to me. What's
>> /that/ all about, eh?
>>
>
> If you are sur le 'bent, p'raps they think you are disabled and don't
> want to be mentioned in the press for killing a disabled person...
> wot with it coming up to the Season Of Goodwill To All Men and all
> that

Once on the Speedmachine, once on the mountain bike. Now that my new Shedde
contains a full complement of bicycles, I am on the fixer today (the
Speedmachine needs a new rear shock, I've decided), so we shall perhaps see
what effect that has on the motoring population of E17...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
God was my co-pilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat
Him.

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, Peter Fox wrote:
>
>(2)
>A mini-roundabout should not have more than one lane /going round it/.
>If it has multiple entrance lanes then it should be designed, designated
>and driver as a full roundabout.

I wish someone would tell Cambridgeshire County Council that.
http://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/62/article3.html

 

[David Nutter]

On 2005-11-21, Dave Larrington <[email protected]> wrote:
> wafflycat <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote:
>
>> If you are sur le 'bent, p'raps they think you are disabled and don't
>> want to be mentioned in the press for killing a disabled person...
>> wot with it coming up to the Season Of Goodwill To All Men and all
>> that
>
> Once on the Speedmachine, once on the mountain bike. Now that my new Shedde
> contains a full complement of bicycles, I am on the fixer today (the
> Speedmachine needs a new rear shock, I've decided), so we shall perhaps see
> what effect that has on the motoring population of E17...

It might activate the ancient "A Courier! Kill! Kill!" response of the
hindbrain. Be careful out there...

Regards,

-david

 

[Dave Larrington]

David Nutter <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 2005-11-21, Dave Larrington <[email protected]> wrote:
>> wafflycat <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If you are sur le 'bent, p'raps they think you are disabled and
>>> don't want to be mentioned in the press for killing a disabled
>>> person... wot with it coming up to the Season Of Goodwill To All
>>> Men and all that
>>
>> Once on the Speedmachine, once on the mountain bike. Now that my
>> new Shedde contains a full complement of bicycles, I am on the fixer
>> today (the Speedmachine needs a new rear shock, I've decided), so we
>> shall perhaps see what effect that has on the motoring population of
>> E17...
>
> It might activate the ancient "A Courier! Kill! Kill!" response of the
> hindbrain. Be careful out there...

No motorcar present at junction yesterday. Will try again tomorrow, as
tonight I are mostly being a dirty stop-out.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
uck Wa