Cyclist hit by car - advice please

al Mossah said:

Unfortunately I was not present when Wiltshire's finest suggested to my son
that he push his bike across the junction from now on.

Regardless of what happens wrt the driver, I'd make sure your son knows
the safest way to traverse the roundabout.

NOTE: I AM NOT FOR A MINUTE SUGGESTING HE DID ANYTHING WRONG!

Get a copy of Cyclecraft and go over the bit on roundabouts. He should
be in the middle of his lane, signalling appropriately. Cyclists hugging
the outside of the roundabout are asking for trouble, even if they are
not breaking any laws.

Teach him about making eye contact with drivers, and watching a
stationary vehicle's wheels for the earliest indication of movement (top
of the wheel moves as twice the vehicle speed, so it can be easier to
pick up on the beginning of motion).

I'd probably not bother with pressuring the police. It does sound from
your description like the driver was genuinely concerned and will
hopefully drive a lot more carefully now.

Make completely sure there's no real damage to bike or leg (or
clothing!): you'll need to make an insurance claim soon if there is.

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/

al Mossah said:

Hi all,

Yesterday on his way back from his paper-round my son was hit by a car
entering the mini roundabout from his left as my son went straight on.
Thankfully he has emerged from it with a bruised leg and an enhanced sense
of his own vulnerability.

Quoted message said:

The driver plus 2 witnesses stopped and made sure he was OK. On his return
home, we reported it to the police, who have decided to take no action, not
even to contact the driver,despite concluding to us that it appeared to be
100% driver error.

An injury occurred. I think they have to investigate (but ICBW). If you
get no joy from a letter to the appropriate 'top cop', then how about a
name and shame in the papers.. 'It's OK to run down cyclists, the
police can't be bothered to investigate, they's much rather lock up
people for three months..'

I presume you got the drivers name and address (genuine ones). And I am
sure there must be some damage to the bike that needs replacing (even
if just a roll of bar tape.)

Quoted message said:

I'm not necessarily asking for a prosecution here; provided that the driver
is feeling somewhat chastened and will drive with due care and attention in
future, I'm happy. However, I feel that the least he deserves is to have a
policeman sit in his lounge and explain to him the error of his ways.

Am I within my rights to request this? I'm going to anyway, but wondered if
anyone had had similar experience.

Unfortunately I was not present when Wiltshire's finest suggested to my son
that he push his bike across the junction from now on.

Do they suggest that drivers who have been run into get out and push,
or that burgulary victims buy cheaper stuff in future? I think not.

...d

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 03:52:38 -0000, "al Mossah"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Hi there,

Quoted message said:

Yesterday on his way back from his paper-round my son was hit by a car
entering the mini roundabout from his left as my son went straight on.
Thankfully he has emerged from it with a bruised leg and an enhanced sense
of his own vulnerability.

The driver plus 2 witnesses stopped and made sure he was OK. On his return
home, we reported it to the police, who have decided to take no action, not
even to contact the driver,despite concluding to us that it appeared to be
100% driver error.

I'm not necessarily asking for a prosecution here; provided that the driver
is feeling somewhat chastened and will drive with due care and attention in
future, I'm happy. However, I feel that the least he deserves is to have a
policeman sit in his lounge and explain to him the error of his ways.

Am I within my rights to request this? I'm going to anyway, but wondered if
anyone had had similar experience.

You're certainly within your rights to request it, but they may not be
willing to take any notice. If you search back over the last fortnight
you'll find me complaining about lack of police interest in a woman
who drove out of a side street and hit my car at speed.

I agree with the suggestion made above by someone else. If they're not
willing at least to go and speak to the driver of the car, why not
approach the local newspaper?

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately I was not present when Wiltshire's finest suggested to my son
that he push his bike across the junction from now on.

Words fail me...

Good luck.

Wet fishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

Another suggestion to the ones already made. If your son (and any other
cyclists in the family) are not already members of the CTC, please consider
joining.

www.ctc.org.uk

Membership includes £5million third party insurance and cycle related legal
advice. There are other benefits, but in my opinion, membership is worth it
for these two things alone.

In the case of your son, this could have been immediately referred to the
CTC who would have looked at it and advised accordingly for the benefit of
your son.

My husband was victim of a hit-and-run some time ago. Via the CTC he was
able to claim costs involved.

Hoping there's nothing serious wrong with your son.

Cheers, helen s

Following on from Mark Tranchant's message. . .

Quoted message said:

Regardless of what happens wrt the driver, I'd make sure your son knows
the safest way to traverse the roundabout.

STOP!
A roundabout and a mini-roundabout are different animals and should be
kept separate as far as possible.

Quoted message said:

NOTE: I AM NOT FOR A MINUTE SUGGESTING HE DID ANYTHING WRONG!

Get a copy of Cyclecraft and go over the bit on roundabouts. He should
be in the middle of his lane, signalling appropriately. Cyclists hugging
the outside of the roundabout are asking for trouble, even if they are
not breaking any laws.

Teach him about making eye contact with drivers, and watching a
stationary vehicle's wheels for the earliest indication of movement (top
of the wheel moves as twice the vehicle speed, so it can be easier to
pick up on the beginning of motion).

NO! '1001 complicated and distracting things to do at a roundabout' is
NOT the right approach. Bombarding a child with all these things is
simply WRONG. (And adults too.)

* Understand the basic logical rules
* Experience different types of situation and develop good habits
* Further develop hazard awareness and how to get most out of cycling.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the cardboard box company folded
[email hidden]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Do they suggest that drivers who have been run into get out and push,
or that burgulary victims buy cheaper stuff in future? I think not.

Sadly yes they do tend to make suggestions like that.
After an attempted break-in on my car they suggested I ask my employer for a
company car so it wouldn't be my problem if it happened again.

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

al Mossah said:

Unfortunately I was not present when Wiltshire's finest suggested to my
son
that he push his bike across the junction from now on.

Do they suggest that drivers who have been run into get out and push,
or that burgulary victims buy cheaper stuff in future? I think not.

Pragmatic advice from the police, although infuriating, is the norm. We are
told to lock our doors and windows, hide valuables, use the green cross
code, lock our cars when paying for fuel, and so on. Otherwise we are
"asking for it". This is the state of our society. We Tolerate criminality
and negligence, at the expense of rights and liberties.

--
Matt B

Matt B said:

Pragmatic advice from the police, although infuriating, is the norm. We are
told to lock our doors and windows, hide valuables, use the green cross
code, lock our cars when paying for fuel, and so on. Otherwise we are
"asking for it". This is the state of our society. We Tolerate criminality
and negligence, at the expense of rights and liberties.

Yeah, fair enough in the examples you give - but get off and push bikes
through roundabouts? The carnage would be horrible!

"POHB" <[email hidden]> wrote:
| "David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote
| > Do they suggest that drivers who have been run into get out and push,
| > or that burgulary victims buy cheaper stuff in future? I think not.
|
| Sadly yes they do tend to make suggestions like that.

I'm sure that bicycles could be provided at roundabouts, so that drivers
who have been run into could get out and push the bike, if their car was
too heavy for them to push.

al Mossah said:

Hi all,

Yesterday on his way back from his paper-round my son was hit by a car
entering the mini roundabout from his left as my son went straight on.
Thankfully he has emerged from it with a bruised leg and an enhanced
sense of his own vulnerability.

The driver plus 2 witnesses stopped and made sure he was OK. On his
return home, we reported it to the police, who have decided to take
no action, not even to contact the driver,despite concluding to us
that it appeared to be 100% driver error.

I'm not necessarily asking for a prosecution here; provided that the
driver is feeling somewhat chastened and will drive with due care and
attention in future, I'm happy.

Your son deserves compensation for his injuries and all expenses. See a
solicitor who will help you claim from the driver, or sue the driver, or
claim from his insurance company if the driver has insurance (as he should
by law; if not the police must deal with that).

Don't believe anyone who tells you it's not possible for a cyclist to
claim from a motorist's insurance company. I know a cyclist who did this
successfully with the help of a barrister friend specialising in personal
injury -- I've seen copies of the letters.

It will help to get the bruises photographed this morning, and a report
from the GP.

~PB

Quoted message said:

Yesterday on his way back from his paper-round my son was hit by a car
entering the mini roundabout from his left as my son went straight on.
Thankfully he has emerged from it with a bruised leg and an enhanced
sense of his own vulnerability.

Excellent to hear he's ok. This is just another <aol>me too</aol> for
Cyclecraft. Excellent book and it'll teach him how to avoid (and prevent)
other drivers mistakes before they've even made 'em.

ps. You can claim from The Motor Insurers' Bureau if the driver is
uninsured ( for personal injury only).

~PB

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 09:46:55 +0000 (UTC), "wafflycat"

w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com said:

Another suggestion to the ones already made. If your son (and any other
cyclists in the family) are not already members of the CTC, please consider
joining.

www.ctc.org.uk

Membership includes £5million third party insurance and cycle related legal
advice. There are other benefits, but in my opinion, membership is worth it
for these two things alone.

In the case of your son, this could have been immediately referred to the
CTC who would have looked at it and advised accordingly for the benefit of
your son.

That's true, and I'm glad I took the advice I was given here earlier
in the year to join the CTC, but that's about civil liablity.

The police issue is a different one, though.

Quoted message said:

My husband was victim of a hit-and-run some time ago. Via the CTC he was
able to claim costs involved.

I'd like to think the hit-and-run driver had been prosecuted, though!
It was important for your husband to be able to claim his costs, but
it's important to all of us that dangerous drivers are now allowed to
continue with impunity as long as their insurance company pays for the
damage they cause to people and property. Imo, anyway...

Wet fishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

"Peewiglet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 09:46:55 +0000 (UTC), "wafflycat"

w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com said:

Another suggestion to the ones already made. If your son (and any other
cyclists in the family) are not already members of the CTC, please
consider
joining.

www.ctc.org.uk

Membership includes £5million third party insurance and cycle related
legal
advice. There are other benefits, but in my opinion, membership is worth
it
for these two things alone.

In the case of your son, this could have been immediately referred to the
CTC who would have looked at it and advised accordingly for the benefit of
your son.

That's true, and I'm glad I took the advice I was given here earlier
in the year to join the CTC, but that's about civil liablity.

The police issue is a different one, though.

Even if the police won't prosecute, there's nothing stopping a civil action
being taken out. That's what legal advice is for 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My husband was victim of a hit-and-run some time ago. Via the CTC he was
able to claim costs involved.

I'd like to think the hit-and-run driver had been prosecuted, though!

In the case of my husband's H&R, there was no way the car was going to be
traced. Which is a bit of a bummer.

Quoted message said:

It was important for your husband to be able to claim his costs, but
it's important to all of us that dangerous drivers are now allowed to
continue with impunity as long as their insurance company pays for the
damage they cause to people and property. Imo, anyway...

As a motorist who pays her insurance premiums I get tee'd off with those who
don't as effectively the cost is passed along to those of us who do, by way
of increased premiums. I wish there was someway of effectively making
uninsured motoring socially & economically unacceptable.

Cheers, helen s

Quoted message said:

Wet fishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As a motorist who pays her insurance premiums I get tee'd off with those
who don't as effectively the cost is passed along to those of us who do,
by way of increased premiums. I wish there was someway of effectively
making uninsured motoring socially & economically unacceptable.

There is we just arent prepared to do it ..random stops, no insurance = car
confiscated and not returned until fine paid , second offence=jail. No
exceptions, not even for chief constables.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:51:25 -0000, T

umbleweed said:

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As a motorist who pays her insurance premiums I get tee'd off with those
who don't as effectively the cost is passed along to those of us who do,
by way of increased premiums. I wish there was someway of effectively
making uninsured motoring socially & economically unacceptable.

There is we just arent prepared to do it ..random stops, no insurance = car
confiscated and not returned until fine paid , second offence=jail. No
exceptions, not even for chief constables.

Well there is the trial use of ANPR for this which was on the news
the other week. It caught an amazing number of people including
a commercial vehicle belonging to a clamping firm.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Pete Biggs said:

al Mossah said:

Hi all,

Yesterday on his way back from his paper-round my son was hit by a car
entering the mini roundabout from his left as my son went straight on.
Thankfully he has emerged from it with a bruised leg and an enhanced
sense of his own vulnerability.

The driver plus 2 witnesses stopped and made sure he was OK. On his
return home, we reported it to the police, who have decided to take
no action, not even to contact the driver,despite concluding to us
that it appeared to be 100% driver error.

I'm not necessarily asking for a prosecution here; provided that the
driver is feeling somewhat chastened and will drive with due care and
attention in future, I'm happy.

Your son deserves compensation for his injuries and all expenses. See a
solicitor who will help you claim from the driver, or sue the driver, or
claim from his insurance company if the driver has insurance (as he should
by law; if not the police must deal with that).

Don't believe anyone who tells you it's not possible for a cyclist to
claim from a motorist's insurance company. I know a cyclist who did this
successfully with the help of a barrister friend specialising in personal
injury -- I've seen copies of the letters.

It will help to get the bruises photographed this morning, and a report
from the GP.

~PB

Hang on a second! What compensation would make up for bruised leg? How
is the OP son finacially disadvantaged by this? I agree that any and all
repairs to the bike should be paid for, but this compensation culture is
just crazy!

Mike

Mike Hibbert said:

Hang on a second! What compensation would make up for bruised leg?
How
is the OP son finacially disadvantaged by this? I agree that any and
all repairs to the bike should be paid for, but this compensation
culture is just crazy!

That's a matter of personal political opinion. You're entitled to claim
if you want. It's not purely to cover financial costs. With the person I
know the money did help them feel better about everything, that includes
knowing the driver may have lost any no-claims bonus. I think victims
deserve help in this way.

Bruising can be painful and debilitating but compensation wouldn't be just
for that but also for any mental anxiety plus any "loss of ameniety" from
not being able to cycle for a while due to injuries or while the bike is
being fixed. The injury does not have to be terribly serious to get
several hundred pounds plus.

~PB

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hang on a second! What compensation would make up for bruised leg? How
is the OP son finacially disadvantaged by this? I agree that any and all
repairs to the bike should be paid for, but this compensation culture is
just crazy!

I don't agree. "Compensation culture" refers to people claiming for
damages when they are injured through their own stupidity, or when the
person they are claiming from had no duty of care over them. For
example, trespassers claiming for injuries when they fall off a
building, or burglars claiming from the owner of the house they're
burgling.

The OP's son has suffered through someone else's negligence, something
which was avoidable by the car driver taking the time to look, and the
care not to drive into other people. Bruising is not a serious injury,
but it's an injury he should definitely not had to suffer. If you've
ever been knocked off a bike, you'll know how much it affects you
psychologically ever time you cycle, for many years afterwards.

You say he hasn't suffered financially. Neither would he have suffered
financially if he'd been more seriously injured, for example a broken
leg, or worse non-permanent injuries. Would you say he should not claim
compensation if that were the case? If not, where would you draw the
line?