Cyclist down, motorists throw abuse

EuanB said:

From today's letters page in The Age theage.com.auindex.htmlOpen ↗ Not a lot more I can add to it.

Quite a lot of cycling related letters in today's Age, some good and some downright bad.

Cyclists injured

On Saturday I set out for my regular weekly morning ride along Beach Road, very much aware of the debate about the competing needs of drivers and cyclists. I first came across a fallen rider being attended by cyclists and bystanders. Apparently she had collided with a pedestrian. She did not look in good shape.

I had only travelled a couple of kilometres when I heard a sound of what turned out to be car meeting cyclist. Behind me, on the median strip of Beach Road, lay another motionless cyclist. It seemed the cyclist had been hit at speed from behind. The cyclist had shattered the car's windscreen on impact.

What happened next sickened me more than even the accident. As cars slowed in the opposite lanes, abuse was hurled at us by a number of motorists. I and others were stunned. Here was a fellow human being, potentially seriously injured, and these people could only think to take the opportunity to shout abuse.

There is a problem of congestion on Beach Road and conflict between motorists and riders is common, but if this behaviour is indicative of a deeper problem within our society then finding solutions will be much more complex than closing off one lane on Beach Road for a few hours on Saturday mornings.

To the young lady in the BMW who led the abuse, I hope you got to your appointment on time.
Brian Barry, Camberwell

--
Cheers
EuanB

I heard about a hit and run on Beach Rd (Black Rock) on Sunday, where a car *deliberately* struck the cyclist and did not stop.

Brian Barry is spot on - where is the respect for other human beings these days? These [censored] (oops, sorry for the abuse) wouldn't hurl abuse at each other if they were walking around the supermarket pushing a trolly, so what makes it acceptable to do it from (the safety) of their cars?

I don't get it. Am I wierd?? Personally I think the people hurling abuse are fscked in the head, rude and pig-ignorant. I hate ignorance. 😠 😠 😠

These discussions have been had before, but this weekend's incidences highlight the state of play in road culture in Melbourne. And those dumbarse arguments that it's cyclists fault cos we are out there on the roads (just asking for it) are the same kinds of arguments used against people (women in particular) who get raped or abused.

Personally I think the situation is getting worse for us out there. Even in the rural area I live in, roadrudeness is beginning to become more apparent, which means things are truly *getting bad*.

Who knows, this might see the resurgence in track racing and more mtb racing? It's a helluva lot safer.

It sounds like Beach Road isn't a cyclist vs car problem - more a [censored] problem. I'm not surprised that people were yelling abuse. People rarely surprise me with their bogan/westie/bevan antics these days and it's really sad.

LotteBum

warrwych said:

Personally I think the situation is getting worse for us out there. Even in the rural area I live in, roadrudeness is beginning to become more apparent, which means things are truly *getting bad*.

I've found that the behaviour of motorists goes down hill when cyclists are in the news a lot but it generally rebounds in a couple of weeks or so.

warrwych said:

Who knows, this might see the resurgence in track racing and more mtb racing? It's a helluva lot safer.

1. Not much comfort for commuters like myself; I don't race.

2. I seriously doubt that's correct. I travel 300km's a week. The worst I've had is a face plant at 5km/h in a car park which was entirely my fault. I'm still of the belief that On road cycling as a vehicle is the safest cycling you can do.
--
Cheers
Euan

"EuanB" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

From today's letters page in The Age
http://www.theage.com.au/letters/index.html Not a lot more I can add to
it.

Beach Rd looks a little hot at the moment... and it is still the middle of
winter!... All the more reason to head for the hills and away from the
traffic. On the BR yesterday we had the least amount of traffic that I can
remember - our ride didn't take us back the normal route though.

If there are any Beach Rd riders who would like (mostly) car free roads with
some hills thrown in, feel free to come on the BR!

cheers,
GPL

I was out on my MTB on Sunday up Yarra Bend way (Melb- Ivanhoe). I actually came off my bike out on some dirt singletrack at speed, all on my lonesome, completely my fault. Nothing too bad, just left knee/elbow missing some bark, but I bled up nicely, so it looked really graphic.

Battled scarred I figured it was time I should make my way home for a patch up. Along the way back home, I rode up the rise on the bike path shouldering the Yarra boularvard & got a "ya fuggin' yidiyot" from a passing car.

wots all that about; I'm thinking??

EuanB said:

I've found that the behaviour of motorists goes down hill when cyclists are in the news a lot but it generally rebounds in a couple of weeks or so.

1. Not much comfort for commuters like myself; I don't race.

2. I seriously doubt that's correct. I travel 300km's a week. The worst I've had is a face plant at 5km/h in a car park which was entirely my fault. I'm still of the belief that On road cycling as a vehicle is the safest cycling you can do.
--
Cheers
Euan

my personal opinion is it is not a driver v's cyclist thing it is an "ignorance" and "you are in my way attitude", just a complete lack of respect for each other in todays' society, you see it all the time, walking, riding, driving, everyone is too busy thinking how everything effects themselves to not give a damn about anybody else.

but when drivers are deliberately driving into groups of cyclists and then just driving off, thats the sort of behaviour that starts to play on your mind.

Ive been shouted at, had cars crash in front of me, had plastic, glass, cardboard and abuse thrown at me, all of which I can shrug off and sometimes laugh at.

but the idea that there are people out there who are willing to drive their car into a group of cyclists on a "sunday" morning!? All because media outlets want to capitalize on a news story for ratings and then "morons" think it is ok for them to go and take a few out.

what a sad place we live in, maybe a picket outside of a certain TV station to bring some attention to "gutter-trash" TV and reporting should take place! I would be there.

Marx SS said:

I was out on my MTB on Sunday up Yarra Bend way (Melb- Ivanhoe). I actually came off my bike out on some dirt singletrack at speed, all on my lonesome, completely my fault. Nothing too bad, just left knee/elbow missing some bark, but I bled up nicely, so it looked really graphic.

Battled scarred I figured it was time I should make my way home for a patch up. Along the way back home, I rode up the rise on the bike path shouldering the Yarra boularvard & got a "ya fuggin' yidiyot" from a passing car.

wots all that about; I'm thinking??

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sorry :o

MikeyOz said:

my personal opinion is it is not a driver v's cyclist thing it is an "ignorance" and "you are in my way attitude", just a complete lack of respect for each other in todays' society, you see it all the time, walking, riding, driving, everyone is too busy thinking how everything effects themselves to not give a damn about anybody else.

but when drivers are deliberately driving into groups of cyclists and then just driving off, thats the sort of behaviour that starts to play on your mind.

Ive been shouted at, had cars crash in front of me, had plastic, glass, cardboard and abuse thrown at me, all of which I can shrug off and sometimes laugh at.

but the idea that there are people out there who are willing to drive their car into a group of cyclists on a "sunday" morning!? All because media outlets want to capitalize on a news story for ratings and then "morons" think it is ok for them to go and take a few out.

what a sad place we live in, maybe a picket outside of a certain TV station to bring some attention to "gutter-trash" TV and reporting should take place! I would be there.

I'm sure that the attitude of some (many... 🙁 ) motorists is the result of a range of things, including as you suggest, a level of selfishness. I wonder though whether the aggro motorist is the equivalent of the internet troll or rude, anon emailer - they behave badly because they can, without any personal impact. They aren't going to get caught, charged, fined, anything... they are f^ckwits who think they are able to 'get away with something', behave badly without mummy catching them and sending them to their rooms, and feel all puffed up with the 'accomplishment'. Or, perhaps it is the on-road equivalent of going home to kick the dog because the boss [censored] them off?

Interestingly though, while there *does* seem to be more aggro out there (like the twit driving the white magna last Friday morning, popping in and out of the bike lane on Royal Parade whenever she could see a cyclist riding along it threatening to leave her sorry [censored] behind) there seems to also be an opposite reaction where some motorists are doing their utmost to distance themselves from the arsewipes.

ali

alison_b said:

selfishness. I wonder though whether the aggro motorist is the
equivalent of the internet troll or rude, anon emailer - they behave
badly because they can, without any personal impact. They aren't going
to get caught, charged, fined, anything... they are f^ckwits who think
they are able to 'get away with something', behave badly without mummy

Yep I'd agree with that. I can't recall ever having been abused by a
motorist while on the motorbike. They tend to rethink that sort of
action when they consider possible repercussions. The only times I've
been abused while cycling is when motorists would have reasonably
expectde to be able to get away unscathed (some have been surprised at
how quickly a bike can catch them at a red light).

DaveB

alison_b said:

I'm sure that the attitude of some (many... 🙁 ) motorists is the result of a range of things, including as you suggest, a level of selfishness. I wonder though whether the aggro motorist is the equivalent of the internet troll or rude, anon emailer - they behave badly because they can, without any personal impact. They aren't going to get caught, charged, fined, anything... they are f^ckwits who think they are able to 'get away with something', behave badly without mummy catching them and sending them to their rooms, and feel all puffed up with the 'accomplishment'. Or, perhaps it is the on-road equivalent of going home to kick the dog because the boss [censored] them off?

Interestingly though, while there *does* seem to be more aggro out there (like the twit driving the white magna last Friday morning, popping in and out of the bike lane on Royal Parade whenever she could see a cyclist riding along it threatening to leave her sorry [censored] behind) there seems to also be an opposite reaction where some motorists are doing their utmost to distance themselves from the arsewipes.

ali

of course, you only usually do something if you know you can get away with it, why would you do it else a.k.a Vizard syndrome, poor guys, he did seem genuinely apologetic, he must have got caught, but I know where you are coming from.

GPLama said:

"EuanB" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

From today's letters page in The Age
http://www.theage.com.au/letters/index.html Not a lot more I can add to
it.

Beach Rd looks a little hot at the moment... and it is still the middle of
winter!... All the more reason to head for the hills and away from the
traffic. On the BR yesterday we had the least amount of traffic that I can
remember - our ride didn't take us back the normal route though.

If there are any Beach Rd riders who would like (mostly) car free roads with
some hills thrown in, feel free to come on the BR!

cheers,
GPL

thanks for the offer, while I regularly throw in rides out to the Dandenong Ranges, have been meaning to try one of the BR rides, just a convenience, item being so close to such a "normally" great stretch of road to ride on.... might be tagging alone sooner then expected though!

EuanB said:

From today's letters page in The Age
http://www.theage.com.au/letters/index.html Not a lot more I can add to
it.

Quite a lot of cycling related letters in today's Age, some good and
some downright bad.

CYCLISTS INJURED

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I had only travelled a couple of kilometres when I heard a sound of
what turned out to be car meeting cyclist. Behind me, on the median
strip of Beach Road, lay another motionless cyclist. It seemed the
cyclist had been hit at speed from behind. The cyclist had shattered
the car's windscreen on impact.

What happened next sickened me more than even the accident. As cars
slowed in the opposite lanes, abuse was hurled at us by a number of
motorists. I and others were stunned. Here was a fellow human being,
potentially seriously injured, and these people could only think to
take the opportunity to shout abuse.

<snip>

And from Australian Cyclist Magazine, May-June 2005, p28.

"The Australian Centre for Excellence in Cycle Tourism

"With a year-round climate for cycling, well-spaced historic and
food-based tourism hubs within easy cycling distance, Australia is
uniquely placed to take advantage of the current boom in cycle tourism.

"How can Australia develop products and services to meet the needs of
this growing Australian and overseas market? By creating a range of
quality products and services, by supporting regional areas in creating
supportive environments and linking cycling infrastructure to popular
destinations and by developing a consistent and high quality cycle
tourism brand for Australia, and marketing it internationally..."

And so on.

Anyone convinced?

With attitudes of some drivers on Australian roads, cycle tourism sounds
a lot like suicide.

Tam

MikeyOz said:

of course, you only usually do something if you know you can get away
with it, why would you do it else a.k.a Vizard syndrome, poor guys, he
did seem genuinely apologetic, he must have got caught, but I know
where you are coming from.

He only applogised because he got caught. It's basic human psycology.

Carl Brewer said:

He only applogised because he got caught. It's basic human psycology.

Plenty of motorists don't apologise when they get caught - they remain firmly in " I am not responsible" mode ie the other person's fault for getting in the way of my car. It's a defence mechanism called denial, which if repeated enough times, you begin to believe.

For anyone who will be doing the Around the Bay (Melb) ride this year, look out for abuse in the Werribee area. Happens to me more times than I can remember for some reason.... 😕

"MikeyOz" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

thanks for the offer, while I regularly throw in rides out to the
Dandenong Ranges, have been meaning to try one of the BR rides, just a
convenience, item being so close to such a "normally" great stretch of
road to ride on.... might be tagging alone sooner then expected though!

Cool MikeyOZ.. Sundays 7:20am at the Doncaster/Tram Rd intersection, you'll
see us waiting on the north east side - directly over the road from
OfficeWorks...

cheers,
GPL

"Marx SS" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

For anyone who will be doing the *Around the Bay* (Melb) ride this year,
look out for abuse in the Werribee area. Happens to me more times than I
can remember for some reason.... 😕

Or tacks all over the road in Dromana... grrr... No ATB for me again
anytime soon - I'll stick to the hills and back roads..

cheers,
GPL

Appeal for witness to Black Rock hit-run

police.vic.gov.aucontent.aspOpen ↗

Mon 1 August 2005

Police are appealing for assistance to locate the driver of a car involved in a hit-run collision at Black Rock yesterday morning.

The collision occurred about 9am on Beach Road between the Blackrock Tower and Half Moon Bay.

Police have been told a late 90s model Burgundy Ford sedan was travelling north along Beach Road when it collided with a group of cyclists.

A 24-year-old Pearcedale man and a 38-year-old Prahran man were taken to the Alfred Hospital with moderate injures.

After the collision the sedan continued travelling along Beach Road then turned right into Seaview Crescent.

It is believed the driver of the sedan was the only occupant of the car.

The car was displaying a “P” plate in the rear window

Police would like to speak to the driver of the car or to anyone who may have witnessed the collision.

Anyone with information is urged to contact Bayside Traffic Management Unit on 9556 6597 or Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000.

Acting Sergeant Wendy Willingham
Media Officer

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 12:07:04 +1000, Tamyka Bell <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

With attitudes of some drivers on Australian roads, cycle tourism sounds
a lot like suicide.

As with most things said on newsgroups and in the media, this is
an over-reaction. There's [censored] on the road, some on
pushbikes, some in cars or trucks or 4wd's etc. What's
changed? The only thing I've observed is a significant increase
in numbers on the Beach Rd bunch rides, which increases the
odds of [censored] happening.

Why is this?

Some possiblities :

Drivers are learning(!) that they have to share more and there's a
backlash from some of them.

Bike riders are thinking that they can get away with breaking the
road laws. Hell ride as a prominant example of same, but
this happens *all* the time on the faster rides in the mornings.

More people are living further away from the city, and they're
driving further to get places, increasing the traffic volume on
Beach Rd, with all the BWM driving [censored] from Mt Eliza
commuting to their jobs selling real estate in South Yarra to
other BMW driving [censored] from Camberwell who want to move
to Sorrento and turn it into another suburb too, with another
freeway.

Mix all these together, add in a hefty dose of "I won't get
caught doing the wrong thing" to all parties, and
[censored] will happen. We're (Beach Rd users specifically) all at fault
to a certain extent, some moreso than others, and some
more dangerously than others.

Solutions? Now that's a tricky one!

Beach Rd has some choke points (Mentone for example)
that never should have been installed in the first place. Council
dumbness, there's a first .... some elements of the design of the
road could be changed to make it easier to play by the rules.

Bike riders need to play by the rules.

Car drivers need to know what the rules are!

The police need to actively "uphold the right" on
Beach Rd for *all* road users. If that means
they have to have divvy vans running up & down the road,
so be it.

People (bikes, cars, pedestrians etc) need to know that
if they break the rules, they *will* get caught and *will* get
punished. This is the *only* way to modify behaviour en-mass.

What of this is realistically achievable? Changing
the road.