Cycling with baby - options?

Simon L said:

I've got a 7 month old little one and so far family commitments have
prevented me from doing too much cycling - one solution seems to be to
take her along with me on a ride. I have got a secondhand baby seat
(sits on a rear rack) but I think she's a bit young for it (her head
bobs around a bit too much) & I've failed to find a helmet for babies.

There is a very good reason for that. Babies cannot cope with a helmet.
In fact, I wouldn't allow a child who was not capable of comfortably
sitting up by themselves to wear a helmet.

Quoted message said:

Slightly worried about the safety aspects of getting a trailer (being
seen by fast approaching traffic mostly). I'd be grateful for someone's
experience of cycling with the rather young...

Get the trailer. Put a car seat in it. You may need to add more weight
(ie the shopping ;-) and run at lower tyre pressures to reduce
vibration.

Don't worry about visibility - read the theory of Big.

...d

Simon L said:

I've got a 7 month old little one and so far family commitments have
prevented me from doing too much cycling - one solution seems to be to
take her along with me on a ride. I have got a secondhand baby seat
(sits on a rear rack) but I think she's a bit young for it (her head
bobs around a bit too much) & I've failed to find a helmet for babies.

Slightly worried about the safety aspects of getting a trailer (being
seen by fast approaching traffic mostly). I'd be grateful for someone's
experience of cycling with the rather young...

Definitely take the trailer option. You will find that other traffic will
suddenly become much more considerate and overtake widely. With a child
seat you will continue to be squeezed past.

Our first young'un started in a child seat once her neck was strong enough
to support her head. The biggest drawback was the higher CoG which made
the bike difficult to park and to wheel.

The following children all went straight into a Burley d'Lite from about 6
weeks old - one of the best investments we ever made. We used a carry cot
strapped in to start with, which was then replaced by a lightweight car
seat.

Other than the increased weight, the effect on the handling on the towing
bike (and later a tandem) was negligible. as well as the benefits of being
seen by other traffic, it was easy to park and could also carry our
camping equipment - and other baby/child necessities.

It was a sad day when we eventually had to sell it.

John B

On 23 Apr 2006 10:31:26 -0700 someone who may be "Simon L"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Slightly worried about the safety aspects of getting a trailer (being
seen by fast approaching traffic mostly).

Other traffic. You and your bike are part of the traffic.

Motorists tend to notice trailers and given them a lot of room. Not
all motorists of course, but there are only two certainties in life.

Quoted message said:

I'd be grateful for someone's
experience of cycling with the rather young...

Have you used a search engine to read what has been written here
before? After doing that basic research you could ask some
questions.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Simon L said:

I've got a 7 month old little one and so far family commitments have
prevented me from doing too much cycling - one solution seems to be to
take her along with me on a ride. I have got a secondhand baby seat
(sits on a rear rack) but I think she's a bit young for it (her head
bobs around a bit too much) & I've failed to find a helmet for babies.

Slightly worried about the safety aspects of getting a trailer (being
seen by fast approaching traffic mostly). I'd be grateful for someone's
experience of cycling with the rather young...

I also think she's too young for a child seat, and too young to wear a
helmet.

I'd second the recommendations for a trailer, I started using a child
seat and soon realised that it wasn't nearly as good or as safe a
solution as a trailer is. Plus I can put a lot of shopping in the
trailer.

Why is a trailer safer? It's like a huge all body protective cage, it
makes motorists scared of you and they thus give you far more room than
with just a normal bike. Most of all, you're not going to drop it as
is very likely with a bike and a heavy child+child seat on the back, as
that changes the bike's handling for the worse.

"Simon L" <[email hidden]> wrote:
| Slightly worried about the safety aspects of getting a trailer (being
| seen by fast approaching traffic mostly). I'd be grateful for someone's
| experience of cycling with the rather young...

Get a (child) trailer, some webbing luggage straps, and a car seat.
(Admittedly, bike-challenged people will think you're more normal
if you have a car seat about the place, but even a cyclist can live
with that. We got a car-seat second-hand from cager colleagues who
couldn't imagine managing without one. And they were right, in a
way.) Most other traffic will magically give you more clearance,
even when you are avoiding all the ironwork that you suddenly find
gets pushed into your path by the utilities.

It does affect the handling of a bike: it will feel like cycling
up a slight hill even when you're going down; and it will be a bit
of a challenge in a strong wind, but most things you can do with a
child and a bicycle will be at least as bad. The worst thing about
it that I have found is that, like a tricycle, you suddenly need to
avoid three times as many potholes (and for some reason you decide
to take on the unavoidable potholes with the central wheels).

The best thing about a trailer is the way everyone turns to look at
it just after you trundle past. The only similar experience I've
ever had was when a friend who runs a vintage Bentley gave me a lift
to Sainsbury's.

One thing I would say is that it's worth paying a bit extra for a
better-built trailer. After the first six months of use I cannot
think why we even considered paying any less than we did because
it's not much compared with everything else a child will cost you.

In article <[email hidden]>, Geraint Jones

Quoted message said:

After the first six months of use I cannot think why we even
considered paying any less than we did because it's not much
compared with everything else a child will cost you.

I prefer the Burley Cub but it is expensive. I recently bought some
Spokey Joes for about a third of the Burley price (following from an
earlier thread the wheels seem fine) but do make sure that you get
one with a solid base.

--
T h e - e x t e n d e r ! ! ! !

Simon L said:

I've got a 7 month old little one

<snip>

The last couple of VeloVisions have child trailer reviews and the last
has a Family Cycling Buyers' Guide. Probably worth a look!

http://www.velovision.co.uk/

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Simon L said:

I've got a 7 month old little one and so far family commitments have
prevented me from doing too much cycling - one solution seems to be to
take her along with me on a ride. I have got a secondhand baby seat
(sits on a rear rack) but I think she's a bit young for it (her head
bobs around a bit too much) & I've failed to find a helmet for babies.

Slightly worried about the safety aspects of getting a trailer (being
seen by fast approaching traffic mostly). I'd be grateful for someone's
experience of cycling with the rather young...

Trailer. Safer than the child seat by far. IMhO, Ritchie & Legerro are
of good quality (I've been using a Leggero Classico daily for five
years). We start 'em in it at three months (with a Weber
trailer-specific baby seat) , and the first child is just getting too
big now, at seven years old.

Below is a translation of a description of a study of child trailer
safety by the German insurer Allianz - it been posted here before, but
the translation is gradually improving...

The Smooth Train(*)
--------------------------
Children in trailers are sitting particularly safe

Institutions close to the car industry denounce bike trailers for
transport of people, as the colourful, light carriages become
increasing popular, sometimes replacing second if not first cars. Hard
projectiles must occasionally take the blame for discrediting this
environmentally-friendly mode of child transport. Dekra (a German car
safety testing organization, with strong links to the automobile
industry) and Bruderhilfe (a German church organization that provides
car insurance) report that a car speeding into a trailer can be fatal.
Surely, the fact that cars represent a real danger for everyone without
a crumple zone is common knowledge without the car lobby needing to
advertise the fact itself.
There are, however, insurance underwriters who make objective
assessments of risks. Last year, for the first time. the AZT (the
technical research center for Allianz, a large German insurer) took the
trouble to compare the potential danger of trailers and traditional
child bicycle seats for their small passengers. The results of twenty
seven crash tests give a clear message: children are safer in trailers
than in the bike seat. When AZT chief Dr. Dieter Anselm gave the
results on 21 March 1996 in Munich, he described them as "surprisingly
positive" - the AZT had approached the set of tests with a certain
amount of reservation.
Subjectively, children in a trailer look particularly vulnerable,
placed at the height of cars' bumpers. But it is precisely this that
can save life in the event of a collision: the car pushes the trailer
completely out of its path, while the cyclist, "high on a horse", is
catapulted first onto the car and then into the road. The transport of
children near the handlebars is particularly dangerous; with those in
rear-mounted child seats fairing better in head-on collisions.
The trailer does not tip over as readily as the bike - and when it
does, the height of the fall and the potential for injury are clearly
lower. With child seats serious accidents can take place when the bike
is being loaded - whereas a trailer with a axle coupling remains
unaffected should the towing bike fall over.
The AZT stresses the importance of stable trailer construction with
full seat belts and the use of helmets, to prevent the children coming
into contact with the bumpers. Unfortunately, relevant safety
standards are lacking, and the models tested could all have been
improved. The manufacturers and retailers of trailers are moving into
uncharted territory: Paragraph 21 of the German road traffic
regulations (StVO) forbids carrying people on the "goods area" of a
trailer. This regulation does not directly apply to bike or special
child trailers, but there is room for doubt. In the view of the AZT
this is a pity: "The manufacturers of bike trailers must be given a
clearer legislative framework, so that they can further develop this,
the - so far as we can determine - currently safest transport mode for
children and thereby contribute to better protection of children in
traffic".

(translated from
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/1033/9602anhaenger.html)
(*) The original title: "Des Zöglings Sänfte", seems to make a play
on words equivalent to "train -> trainee(pupil)" and "train -
something pulled". I don't think the other german meaning of Zögling,
'Orphan', is intended - although the stuff about the cyclist being
catapulted across the car makes me wonder...

Peter Clinch said:

The last couple of VeloVisions have child trailer reviews and the last
has a Family Cycling Buyers' Guide. Probably worth a look!

http://www.velovision.co.uk/

Seconded, if any of you don't already get Velovision, it's a great
general cycling magazine well worth subscribing to.

LSMike said:

Seconded, if any of you don't already get Velovision, it's a great
general cycling magazine well worth subscribing to.

For values of "general" that nobody else is really covering much, at any
rate. It's more concerned with cycle culture than Carbon Pr0n.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

LSMike said:

Seconded, if any of you don't already get Velovision, it's a great
general cycling magazine well worth subscribing to.

For values of "general" that nobody else is really covering much, at any
rate. It's more concerned with cycle culture than Carbon Pr0n.

I would define "Carbon Pr0n" as not very general cycling. 🙂 It
certainly covers a wide range of cycling, with some bias towards the
less common interests.

"sothach" wrote

Quoted message said:

Trailer. Safer than the child seat by far.

Not disagreeing, but let's not overstate the dangers of a regular child seat
for when the kid is big enough to sit up and hold its head up.
A decent child seat actually protects the kid pretty well.
I was cycling with a friend last summer when she fell off, she got a nasty
gash on her leg but the kid on the back was fine and happy. The sides of
the seat protected his arms, body and helmetted head and the leg/foot bits
of the seat protected his legs.
They're also easier to manouver through certain kinds of gates and bollards.

POHB said:

"sothach" wrote

Quoted message said:

Trailer. Safer than the child seat by far.

Not disagreeing, but let's not overstate the dangers of a regular child seat
for when the kid is big enough to sit up and hold its head up.
A decent child seat actually protects the kid pretty well.
I was cycling with a friend last summer when she fell off, she got a nasty
gash on her leg but the kid on the back was fine and happy. The sides of
the seat protected his arms, body and helmetted head and the leg/foot bits
of the seat protected his legs.
They're also easier to manouver through certain kinds of gates and bollards.

Right enough: me and the wee one survived when a car turned into a
driveway across the cyclepath - we went over the bonnet (boy did we
make [censored] of the paint work) and ended up in a heap the other side.
We were shaken but otherwise OK, but it was as well the child seat had
head-high sides, cuz they were abraded. In total, we had three spills
with the child seat (one on ice, and one due to spd-noobi syndrome)
before I sussed that a trailer would be safer. I've gone down on ice &
snow many times with the trailer since, to the amusement of the
passengers (except this last winter, when I fitted spike tyres).

Cheers - I'll have a look at some of these models. Are we saying that
solid base = good, nylon base = bad ?

As for putting a car seat in a trailer, attaching the seat to the
trailer base (or back) with luggage straps ought to be sufficient?

Simon L said:

Cheers - I'll have a look at some of these models. Are we saying that
solid base = good, nylon base = bad ?

I wouldn't say nylon based ones are bad, just the solid base makes for
a more solid frame in case of rolling or being shunted (see crash test
report), on the other had they are generally a bit heavier and not as
easy to store/transport as a folder: depends how you'll use it - daily,
weekends, once a year.... The coupling can be an issue if you
hitch/unhitch a lot, I like the Weber and Becco ones. Also, the safety
strap is essential kit (DAMHIKIJKOK?)

Quoted message said:

As for putting a car seat in a trailer, attaching the seat to the
trailer base (or back) with luggage straps ought to be sufficient?

It's a good idea to insulate the seat with some foam, to suck up some
of the vibrations, also running the tyres a bit soft helps.

Simon L said:

Cheers - I'll have a look at some of these models. Are we saying that
solid base = good, nylon base = bad ?

That was definitely my thoughts when I first got one. I had visions of
little darlings rubbing feet on the bottom, odd shaped shopping parcels
putting stress in various places. The occasional twig/rock on teh off
road forays going into it.

We bought a Winther Dolphin which is just about th emost expensive
single cycle related purchase I have made.[1] Well worth every penny of
the 600 quid. It is still going strong (though a bit tatty) ten years
on. Solid as a rock.

Quoted message said:

As for putting a car seat in a trailer, attaching the seat to the
trailer base (or back) with luggage straps ought to be sufficient?

I got an old child seat with a moulded ABS base (not a polystyrene one)
and trimmed it to fit, drilled bolt holes in it and the trailer and
bolted it in with a couple of shock absorbers at each point[2]. Worked
just fine and was able to move it to the side and fit #2 child in as
well in subsequent years.

...d

[1] my road bike was built of bits which just about added up to near
the same amount ten years previously.

[2] Cheap carrymat. Bolt goes through the child seat, through one stack
of carrymat, through the railer base, then through another stack of
mat, then big washer and nut. I lined the child seat with the remainder
of the mat to add a bit more padding. I have photos but will have to
scan them in as they are on Real Film[tm]

"Simon L" <[email hidden]> wrote:
| Cheers - I'll have a look at some of these models. Are we saying that
| solid base = good, nylon base = bad ?

I wouldn't go that far (we bought a Burley with a nylon base) but you do
seem to have to pay more for having a frame that doesn't rattle. We
borrowed a couple of cheaper trailers which gave (for some reason I hear
Michael Flanders saying this) the impression of towing a number of tin
cans rattling on the end of strings. You seem to have to pay for silence,
and for convincing wheel bearings.

| As for putting a car seat in a trailer, attaching the seat to the
| trailer base (or back) with luggage straps ought to be sufficient?

Ours has a tubular alloy frame, to the four corners of the base of which
the car seat has been strapped with two luggage straps (and sitting on the
trailer's seat). It's been fine from about two months old to about nine,
and we're about to have to abandon the car seat as it gets too small.

No, the seat isn't getting any smaller, it's herself that's getting bigger.

Simon L said:

Cheers - I'll have a look at some of these models. Are we saying that
solid base = good, nylon base = bad ?

I don't quite understand this.
Our Burley d'Lite, which had an alloy frame and nylon base served us
well for nearly ten years. My early thoughts were that the nylon could
become scuffed or even trn but after several thousand miles, numerous
cycle camping trips, and a *lot* of abuse it didn't have as much as a
nick.

It was also a lot lighter than other models and folded flat, so as well
as being easy to store under the stairs it could be sneaked on to
trains.
You do pay for what you get though, and the Burley was quite pricey, but
it held its value well.

I have used solid base models occasionally and find that they are noisy
and that items tend to move around a lot more. If going for a solid
base, I'd make sure you put all hard articles into padded bags to
prevent this.
At the moment I use a Vitelli camping trailer and that rattles a bit as
the wheels are not quite as good as on the Burley, so their quality also
needs to be considered.

John B

"POHB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"sothach" wrote

Quoted message said:

Trailer. Safer than the child seat by far.

Not disagreeing, but let's not overstate the dangers of a regular child
seat for when the kid is big enough to sit up and hold its head up.
A decent child seat actually protects the kid pretty well.
I was cycling with a friend last summer when she fell off, she got a nasty
gash on her leg but the kid on the back was fine and happy. The sides of
the seat protected his arms, body and helmetted head and the leg/foot bits
of the seat protected his legs.
They're also easier to manouver through certain kinds of gates and
bollards.

Aye. Nathan was in a child seat from less than a year old - and now he's a
strapping 17-year-old who loves cycling - so his early experience can't have
been that bad ;-)

Cheers, helen s