Cycling to school

Colin Blackburn said:

"The Government wants fewer people driving their children to school. But listener Paul Whiteley
tells us what happened when his son tried to bicycle instead."

Which was?

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"Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:MPG.19d3838c1c61bdde989c83@localhost...

Quoted message said:

There was a piece on Today this morning covering one of those schools that doesn't encourage
children to cycle to school. It's available on Listen Again:

bbc.co.uklistenagainOpen ↗

7:48

"The Government wants fewer people driving their children to school. But listener Paul Whiteley
tells us what happened when his son tried to bicycle instead."

I heard that. Poor. many words with little being said.

I always imagine its to do with vandalism, theft, and teachers not wanting to spend time acting as
the police and fielding whinging parents who want the school to pay for a new bike.

"W K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I heard that. Poor. many words with little being said.

I always imagine its to do with vandalism, theft, and teachers not wanting to spend time acting as
the police and fielding whinging parents who want the school to pay for a new bike.

All taken care of by a statement that the school is not responsible for any property brought to
school. Given the number of mobile phones etc. that go missing in schools a few bikes would not add
to the burden.

One problem locally is that schools have been asked to produce school travel plans -- but this
requires time (and sometimes expertise) that the schools do not have -- so very few have done
anything. This is especially true of the secondary schools where some children could reasonably be
expected to want to cycle.

Travel plans seem to mainly be about providing places to park 4x4's :~(

T

"Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"W K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I heard that. Poor. many words with little being said.

I always imagine its to do with vandalism, theft, and teachers not

wanting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to spend time acting as the police and fielding whinging parents who

want

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the school to pay for a new bike.

All taken care of by a statement that the school is not responsible for

any

Quoted message said:

property brought to school. Given the number of mobile phones etc. that

go

Quoted message said:

missing in schools a few bikes would not add to the burden.

Luckily I have no knowledge of how schools now manage with mobiles.

However, statements mean nothing, it would still take up a huge amount of time and goodwill.
(goodwill = not saying to nice kid with vandalised bike "tough [censored] kid, read this statement",
(perhaps "grow up, life's [censored], yours will be worse"😉 ).

Actually I can't remember seeing school kids on bikes much at all in the last 20 years. Even in the
70's kids couldn't leave bikes in school bike sheds.

"W K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually I can't remember seeing school kids on bikes much at all in the last 20 years. Even in
the 70's kids couldn't leave bikes in school bike sheds.

Maybe that is the problem -- are we now in the second or even third generation of kids denied the
freedom of cycling to school?

Peter Clinch said:

I was at secondary school in Bexley (SE London) 79-85, over which time there was considerable use
of the bike sheds at my school.

Yes, but were they used for storing bikes?

--
Jose Marques

"W K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I always imagine its to do with vandalism, theft, and teachers not wanting to spend time acting as
the police and fielding whinging parents who want the school to pay for a new bike.

Some schools think they will be held responsible if Little Jimmy is knocked over by one of those
dangerous cars on the way to school. The fallacies inherent in this view are sufficiently obvious as
to require no further comment, I think.

--
Guy
===

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"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"W K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I always imagine its to do with vandalism, theft, and teachers not

wanting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to spend time acting as the police and fielding whinging parents who

want

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the school to pay for a new bike.

Some schools think they will be held responsible if Little Jimmy is

knocked

Quoted message said:

over by one of those dangerous cars on the way to school.

Are you sure about this? It sounds to me like a misrepresented thing you'd get in a newspaper.
(although perhaps true in one single place (but many more over the ocean) ).

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:04:55 +0100 someone who may be "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Some schools think they will be held responsible if Little Jimmy is knocked over by one of those
dangerous cars on the way to school. The fallacies inherent in this view are sufficiently obvious
as to require no further comment, I think.

I would think so too. However, teachers are supposed to be educated people able to think for
themselves, yet they come up with daft ideas about cycling.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Tony W said:

"W K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I heard that. Poor. many words with little being said.

I always imagine its to do with vandalism, theft, and teachers not wanting to spend time acting
as the police and fielding whinging parents who want the school to pay for a new bike.

All taken care of by a statement that the school is not responsible for any property brought to
school. Given the number of mobile phones etc. that go missing in schools a few bikes would not
add to the burden.

One problem locally is that schools have been asked to produce school travel plans -- but this
requires time (and sometimes expertise) that the schools do not have -- so very few have done
anything. This is especially true of the secondary schools where some children could reasonably be
expected to want to cycle.

Several children from outlying houses and farms cycle into the primary school here every day; the
youngest who regularly cycles unacompanied is about nine. If you think about it when we were kids
children of that age were normally expected to walk, cycle, or go on a public bus to school - I was
certainly walking half a mile to and from school by myself at the age of six. My mother may have
accompanied me sometimes, I don't remember; but she certainly didn't accompany me always. And by the
age of eight I was travelling by myself four miles across central Edinburgh - on public buses, but
not accompanied.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

;; my other religion is Emacs

W K said:

Actually I can't remember seeing school kids on bikes much at all in the last 20 years. Even in
the 70's kids couldn't leave bikes in school bike sheds.

I was at secondary school in Bexley (SE London) 79-85, over which time there was considerable use of
the bike sheds at my school. So it seems it varied a bit place to place...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:29:28 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be "W K" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

However, statements mean nothing, it would still take up a huge amount of time and goodwill.

The report says that pupils were allowed to bring cars to school until recently, but not bikes. I
think this tells us all we need to know about the attitude of the school.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

"W K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Luckily I have no knowledge of how schools now manage with mobiles.

However, statements mean nothing, it would still take up a huge amount of time and goodwill.
(goodwill = not saying to nice kid with vandalised bike "tough [censored] kid, read this statement",
(perhaps "grow up, life's [censored], yours will be worse"😉 ).

This is, of course, very valid. Since, however, a significant part of school's paranoia is about be
sued because little Jake cut his finger while nicking Harry's bike or that Rachel got pregnant
behind the bike sheds or Georgina and Wayne got addicted to crack cocaine behind them.

The logical nonsense that was reported here recently makes the attitude of some school's clear (i.e.
it might cause us problems so we cannot be arsed).

1. To bring your bicycle onto school property you must have passed your Cycling Proficiency and
wear a helmet.

2. We do not offer any CP courses

3. We have no safe area to store cycle helmets so they cannot be brought onto school property.

We do, however, serve a high sugar, high fat diet, have cancelled all physical activities in case
little Jonny hurts himself and are extremely worried that many of our kids are grossly overweight.

Oh, and by the way, if you think we are going to educate the little tykes -- forget it.

(My apologies to the vast number of excellent and committed teachers out there -- you have my
respect for working within a system that seems designed to prevent you educating our children :~(

T

"W K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some schools think they will be held responsible if Little Jimmy is

knocked

Quoted message said:

over by one of those dangerous cars on the way to school.

Are you sure about this? It sounds to me like a misrepresented thing you'd get in a newspaper.
(although perhaps true in one single place (but many more over the

ocean) ).

Well if it is on private property the driver's insurance might be limited. And given our
increasingly litigious nature either the injured party or the driver (or, more likely, the snake in
the grass lawyer who slimes forth) may find some reason to make a claim.

Even if its thrown out as laughable by the first court that sees it the school may have to waste
precious time preparing a defence 'just in case'.

T

"W K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some schools think they will be held responsible if Little Jimmy is

knocked

Quoted message said:

over by one of those dangerous cars on the way to school.

Quoted message said:

Are you sure about this? It sounds to me like a misrepresented thing you'd get in a newspaper.

As sure as one can reasonably be. It was the excuse given to me, as a school governor, by the
headteacher, for the school's desire to remove the last vestiges of cycle parking.

I was also told that "official county policy" was that children who had not passed cycling
proficiency were not allowed to cycle to school. I pointed out that this policy was not legally
enforceable, and in any case was probably not the county policy any more as it ran counter to
county's own guidelines.

--
Guy
===

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"David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some schools think they will be held responsible if Little Jimmy is

knocked

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

over by one of those dangerous cars on the way to school. The fallacies inherent in this view are
sufficiently obvious as to require no further comment, I think.

Quoted message said:

I would think so too. However, teachers are supposed to be educated people able to think for
themselves, yet they come up with daft ideas about cycling.

Teachers are "just folks." If they don't cycle with their own families they will have very little
realistic appreciation of how safe or otherwise it might be. Like all those idiots who tell us how
dangerous it must be riding on the road, as if their prejudice based on no experience is somehow
more valid than our experience.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
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"David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:29:28 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be "W K" <[email hidden]>
wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

However, statements mean nothing, it would still take up a huge amount of time and goodwill.

The report says that pupils were allowed to bring cars to school until recently, but not bikes. I
think this tells us all we need to know about the attitude of the school.

If you look at the points I was making, you'll perhaps see an explanation.

Official school policy saying "tough [censored], look after yourself" would be appropriate for a 17 year
old, but not for younger pupils.

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

Actually I can't remember seeing school kids on bikes much at all in the last 20 years. Even in
the 70's kids couldn't leave bikes in school bike sheds.

I was at secondary school in Bexley (SE London) 79-85, over which time there was considerable use
of the bike sheds at my school.

There was always considerable use of the bike sheds, but not much that involved bikes of the
mechanical kind.

--
Marc Stickers,decals,membership,cards, T shirts, signs etc for clubs and associations of all types.
jaceeprint.demon.co.ukjaceeprint.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I was at secondary school in Bexley (SE London) 79-85, over which time there was considerable use
: of the bike sheds at my school. So it seems it varied a bit place to place...

There was considerable use of the bike sheds at my school too, but very few cyclists 🙂

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Techolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook