Cycling Permits

[Please include a relevant scot.* group when posting on issues relevant to Scotland. After dropping
back in to ask for accident advice, I'm about to drop back out of uk.rec.cycling again as I just
_don't_ have the bandwidth/time to keep up with it any more]

Geraint Jones wrote in uk.rec.cycling: about: Re: Cycling Permits

Quoted message said:

What are the rules about cycling on canal towpaths in Scotland?

Unless BW find some reason to legally insist otherwise (which I would doubt: the Scottish Outdoor
Access Code doesn't seem to suggest otherwise), I would imagine that the implicit right of
responsible access to canal towpaths (by non-motorised means of transport) is now enshrined in our
law as a basic right as a result of the passing of the Land Reform Act 2003 by our Parliament,
naturally.. ;-)

Prior to this, you were supposed to have a free permit. I feel rather guilty now that I never did
get around to finding time to apply for one..

--
David Marsh, <reply-to-email is valid at time of writing> | Glasgow, Scotland. [en, fr, (de)] |
web.viewport.co.ukweb.viewport.co.ukOpen ↗ | Learn usenet and netiquette: read news:news.announce.newusers |

Quoted message said:

I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

begin Once upon a time, there was a badly-broken newsreader program...

On Fri, 23 May 2003 15:35:28 +0100, David Marsh <[email hidden]> wrote: [Re Scotland]

Quoted message said:

I would imagine that the implicit right of responsible access to canal towpaths (by non-motorised
means of transport) is now enshrined in our law as a basic right as a result of the passing of the
Land Reform Act 2003 by our Parliament, naturally.. ;-)

Prior to this, you were supposed to have a free permit. I feel rather guilty now that I never did
get around to finding time to apply for one..

I've just downloaded a permit (I'm in England) as I've been out on a few CTC rides which do
occasionally (read some of most rides) use towpaths. By choice I would much rather stick to the
roads and on the last CTC ride a couple of us bypassed the couple of miles of towpath and met up
again where the ride rejoined the road but it isn't always feasible to do that.

Does anyone know why the CTC/BWB don't automatically provide a cycling permit to CTC members? On the
BWB site it recommends third party insurance which CTC members all have automatically. BCU
membership automatically provides a canoe permit so such arrangements are possible.

Is it BWB or CTC who are the sticking point? Or do they just need introducing to one another?

Regards,

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

tjw.hn.orgtjw.hn.orgOpen ↗ locofungus.btinternet.co.uklocofungus.btinternet.co.ukOpen ↗

I don't think there is a scot.* newsgoup relevant to this since my question was about British
Waterways. Apologies if I'm missing something but I don't like to cross post.

Floyd

David Marsh said:

[Please include a relevant scot.* group when posting on issues relevant to Scotland. After dropping
back in to ask for accident advice, I'm about to drop back out of uk.rec.cycling again as I just
_don't_ have the bandwidth/time to keep up with it any more]

technofreak.comtechnofreak.comOpen ↗

"Tim Woodall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've just downloaded one (pdf). It says you should carry it with you -

will

Quoted message said:

a floppy disk do? :-)

Since it's free and downloadable, I decided I might as well get one too. But it isn't printer
friendly! Too heavy on the black ink. Anyway the damn thing will probably end up wet, crumpled and
smudged in the bottom of a bag...

Rich

Reading all this, being a Dutchman, with thousands of km tow paths, I come only to one conclusion:
your legal people must be mad!

;-)

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Martin Borsje Geleen Netherlands

"Floyd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What's the point of the cycling permit for canal towpaths? I've cycled along the towpath of my
local canal for years but recently saw a notice saying that a cycle permit was required. I've
downloaded one from the British Waterways website but really don't see the point as I've never
been asked for one ever and doubt if I will be.

Has anyone else bothered to apply for one?

Floyd

technofreak.comtechnofreak.comOpen ↗

On Fri, 23 May 2003 15:20:10 +0100 someone who may be "Stephen \(aka steford\)"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Got stopped once on the Grand Union near Southall by a cop and a waterways official with a little
barrier type thing.

It's nice to see that the police have so little to do.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

"Martin Borsje" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Reading all this, being a Dutchman, with thousands of km tow paths, I come only to one conclusion:
your legal people must be mad!

Just a guess but I suspect it might be a right of way issue. By requiring cyclists to get a permit
the BWB can maintain the position that we are not there by right.

--
Dave...

[email hidden] (Dave Kahn) wrote: ( Just a guess but I suspect it might be a right of way
issue. By ) requiring cyclists to get a permit the BWB can maintain the position ( that we are not
there by right.

Oddly, though, you don't seem to need a permit to walk along a canal towpath. Do you need a permit
to take a horse along a canal towpath?

Martin Borsje said:

Reading all this, being a Dutchman, with thousands of km tow paths, I come only to one conclusion:
your legal people must be mad!

;-)

Our legal people mad? Well I'm a Dutchman. (If you don't know, Martin, don't ask!)

In truth, we're (UK) taking after our English-speaking cousins across the pond and becomming quite
litigious.

James

--
homepage.ntlworld.comDscf0632.jpgOpen ↗

"Geraint Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Dave Kahn) wrote: ( Just a guess but I suspect it might be a right of way
issue. By ) requiring cyclists to get a permit the BWB can maintain the position ( that we are not
there by right.

Oddly, though, you don't seem to need a permit to walk along a canal towpath. Do you need a permit
to take a horse along a canal towpath?

Also, as I regularly run along them (exercise, not away from potential assailants / angry fishermen,
etcetc.), I wonder the same thing. As a ROW, should I have a permit ? Must admit, recently I've
started doing bucket loads of miles on 'em on me MTB. Haven't got a permit yet though. Also,
shouldn't every access point stipulate a list of rules such as permit reqts. etc. I've seen fishing
permits reqd. type notices but not cycle permit reqts. Dave.

"Richard Goodman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tim Woodall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've just downloaded one (pdf). It says you should carry it with you -

will

Quoted message said:

a floppy disk do? :-)

Since it's free and downloadable, I decided I might as well get one too. But it isn't printer
friendly! Too heavy on the black ink. Anyway the damn thing will probably end up wet, crumpled and
smudged in the bottom of

a

Quoted message said:

bag...

Rich

...unless of course you laminate it, like wot I do wiv all paper fings I get nowadays that need to
last more than a day ;-) Dave.

[Interleaved quoting: please read to end for all comments]

Floyd wrote in scot.general:
about: Re: Cycling Permits

Quoted message said:

I don't think there is a scot.* newsgoup relevant to this since my question was about British
Waterways.

scot.general is generally <groan> a good place to post about any subject relating to Scotland that
doesn't fit into any of the other scot.* newsgroups. We're a small country and the group isn't
overly busy, so don't hold back if you think something is relevant..

Quoted message said:

Apologies if I'm missing something but I don't like to cross post.

I agree that indiscriminate crossposting isn't a good idea, but part of the power of usenet _is_ in
the ability to crosspost. Where an article relates to a particular area, it's usually a good idea to
post in the relevant group for that particular area, and then work your way upwards and outwards
including other groups covering larger areas/countries until you get to the international groups (if
you want).

As the level of traffic on usenet increases, people are becoming more likely to start reading only
more and more local groups as the volume in bigger groups gets too much to handle. Much of uk.* (and
for some reason in particular, uk.rec.cycling) is getting to that stage for me.. :-(

--
David Marsh, <reply-to-email is valid at time of writing> | Glasgow, Scotland. [en, fr, (de)] |
web.viewport.co.ukweb.viewport.co.ukOpen ↗ | Learn usenet and netiquette: read news:news.announce.newusers |

Quoted message said:

I scorefile posters who don't quote in traditional interleaved style.<

begin Once upon a time, there was a badly-broken newsreader program...

Tim Woodall wrote: /snip/

Quoted message said:

I've just downloaded one (pdf). It says you should carry it with you - will a floppy disk do? :-)

I went back to where I applied for mine (for the Grand Union canal), and didn't see any links to
downloadable pdf's. Any chance you could post a link to the page you go this from? I have more than
one bike which all supposedly need permits actually fixed to them, and only one permit, so a pdf
would be really useful.

Jim Price

"Rupert Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've noticed these signs before, but I'm afraid I have ignored them and never been stopped. What
puzzles me now though is that the Kennet and Avon canal towpath is now an NCN route (4), so
surely as such there cannot be a permit scheme in operation? Maybe they've taken the permit signs
down and

I

Quoted message said:

just haven't noticed.

Rupert

ISTR the requirement for a permit was dropped, I believe fairly recently (certainly within the last
3-4 years).

I thought the permits were only really there so BWB could disclaim liability if you cycled into the
cut - and maybe another idea was that it would remind people that BWB existed; and encourage them to
consult their website or other info channels (maybe worth doing anyway as they warn you of canalside
works and where the towpath may be dodgy or even dangerous/impassable).

IMO trying to *enforce* a permit scheme in Reading when the river runs right through centre the
town/city and is an access point to a major shopping centre would be difficult if not impossible,
given the number of cyclists here. You'd have to set up checkpoints at every entrance to the K & A.

It may be that the building of the Oracle shopping centre (and the further influx of cyclists to the
city centre) was the final straw which broke the permit-checking camels back.

Alex

"Jim Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I went back to where I applied for mine (for the Grand Union canal), and didn't see any links to
downloadable pdf's. Any chance you could post a link to the page you go this from? I have more
than one bike which all supposedly need permits actually fixed to them, and only one permit, so a
pdf would be really useful.

It's the British Waterways board site, and there's nothing about needing to attach it to the bike.
You just carry it around with you.

britishwaterways.co.ukbritishwaterways.co.ukOpen ↗ go to the cycling section and then 'apply for permit'.

Rich

"Richard Goodman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jim Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I went back to where I applied for mine (for the Grand Union canal), and didn't see any links to
downloadable pdf's. Any chance you could post a link to the page you go this from? I have more
than one bike which all supposedly need permits actually fixed to them, and only one permit, so
a pdf would be really useful.

It's the British Waterways board site, and there's nothing about needing

to

Quoted message said:

attach it to the bike. You just carry it around with you.

britishwaterways.co.ukbritishwaterways.co.ukOpen ↗ go to the cycling section and then

'apply

Quoted message said:

for permit'.

Rich

Hi all, I've just been into the BWB site and printed off the permit (simple info needed by BWB<
name, address tel.no etc). LEGAL AT LAST! (I've been a frequent user of the local towpath mailnly as
a "hemel Hempstead by-pass)

--
IanB

swap my names around to reply to me

Richard Goodman said:

It's the British Waterways board site, and there's nothing about needing to attach it to the bike.
You just carry it around with you.

Whoa! Thats changed IIRC since I got mine by post last year.

Jim Price

<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't presume to ask any fisherman unless he's stopped me first. I can't think why they feel
they must stop cyclists . ..

Because they're bored?

--
Martin @ Strawberry Hill

"IanB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Richard Goodman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jim Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I went back to where I applied for mine (for the Grand Union canal),

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

didn't see any links to downloadable pdf's. Any chance you could post

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

link to the page you go this from? I have more than one bike which all supposedly need permits
actually fixed to them, and only one permit,

so

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a pdf would be really useful.

It's the British Waterways board site, and there's nothing about needing

to

Quoted message said:

attach it to the bike. You just carry it around with you.

britishwaterways.co.ukbritishwaterways.co.ukOpen ↗ go to the cycling section and then

'apply

Quoted message said:

for permit'.

Rich

Hi all, I've just been into the BWB site and printed off the permit

(simple

Quoted message said:

info needed by BWB< name, address tel.no etc). LEGAL AT LAST! (I've been a frequent user of the
local towpath mailnly as

a

Quoted message said:

"hemel Hempstead by-pass)

--
IanB

swap my names around to reply to me

Quoted message said:

Just tried this as I do a lot of towpath cycling..... Got to the site, filled in the relevant,
started to download the permit, only to be informed that a little something was missing from my
version of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Took the opportunity to download a later version. Deleted old
version. Can't remember how to 'connect' Adobe to IE as a plug-in for .pdf files, so now can't get
permit printed or use Adobe Reader. Another successful evening spent with the Spawn of Satan (pc). I
remember the good ol' days when you could pop into the post office, pick up a form of some
description, which they might or might not have, fill it in, attach a postal order, send it off,
wait several weeks for it to be processed, then eventually, if all went well, get something back in
the post.....not for a BWB permit for cycling, you understand?, just comforting, 'daysgoneby'
memories..... It's late, I'm off to bed...night John-Boy, etcetc... Dave.