Cycling on Pavements??

On 14 Jan 2004 13:10:53 -0800, [email hidden] (Beany)

Quoted message said:

A friend told me today it is only illegal to cycle on pavements in the UK, is this correct?

We have enough trouble in this group coping with the Scottish deviancy. But I'm pretty sure your
friend is wrong.

Quoted message said:

I cant see the problem with cycling on pavements as long as they are riding at a slow speed...

I suppose if you cycle at walking speed or less and dismount at junctions etc you might be able to
limit the risks to yourself. In which case you may as well leave the bike at home and walk. You're
still going to get in the way of proper users of pavements; pedestrians, prams, wheelchairs and that
ought to be good enough reason to stay off them.

Quoted message said:

our small roads are just too dangerous to cycle on most of the time.

Our roads are plenty big enough for a bike. And, as I frequently point out, you are mile-for-mile
less likely to be hurt if you cycle rather than walk. As most pedestrians use the pavement and most
cyclists use the road I don't see much evidence for pavements being safer than roads.

Quoted message said:

Apparently in Poland it is illegal to cycle on roads.

I'm sure that's cobblers.

On 14 Jan 2004 13:10:53 -0800, [email hidden] (Beany)

Quoted message said:

I cant see the problem with cycling on pavements as long as they are riding at a slow speed, our
small roads are just too dangerous to cycle on most of the time.

There is no problem with cycling on pavements, other than it being illegal. And a problem for
pedestrians. And substantially more dangerous than riding on the road. And slower. And bringing
cycling into disrepute.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Beany said:

A friend told me today it is only illegal to cycle on pavements in the UK, is this correct?

I don't know. Don't forget that in many English speaking countries "pavement" means the main road
surface rather than the "sidewalk".

Quoted message said:

I cant see the problem with cycling on pavements as long as they are riding at a slow speed, our
small roads are just too dangerous to cycle on most of the time. Apparently in Poland it is
illegal to cycle on roads.

What utter nonsense. You can't cycle at a sensible speed on a bumpy pedestrian filled and junction
ridden pavement. The roads are plenty big enough, and cycling on them is not particularly dangerous.
Why do you think they are?

Unless they have _really_ good cycle facilities, I'm glad I don't live in Poland.

--
Daniel Auger

Please remove "_nospam" from address to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Beany

Quoted message said:

A friend told me today it is only illegal to cycle on pavements in the UK, is this correct?

Pavements are for people - and I will continue to report every vehicle which parks wrongly. OTOH
pavement cycles with small people should use the pavements provided they stay away from the elderly.

--
A T (Sandy) Morton on the Bicycle Island In the Global Village sandymillport.fsnet.co.uksandymillport.fsnet.co.ukOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, [Not

Responding said:

Quoted message said:

A friend told me today it is only illegal to cycle on pavements in the UK, is this correct?

Quoted message said:

We have enough trouble in this group coping with the Scottish deviancy. But I'm pretty sure your
friend is wrong.

I am not a deviant - my English wife is - she takes her whisky with orange juice :-((

--
A T (Sandy) Morton on the Bicycle Island In the Global Village sandymillport.fsnet.co.uksandymillport.fsnet.co.ukOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, "Just zis

Guy said:

There is no problem with cycling on pavements, other than it being illegal.

Are you sure? Doesn't it depend on the size/type of cycle.

Quoted message said:

And a problem for pedestrians.

Who are the greater problem?

Quoted message said:

And substantially more dangerous than riding on the road.

Doubtful.

Quoted message said:

And slower.

Doubtful.

Quoted message said:

And bringing cycling into disrepute.

Can we take this to avizandum?

--
A T (Sandy) Morton on the Bicycle Island In the Global Village sandymillport.fsnet.co.uksandymillport.fsnet.co.ukOpen ↗

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And substantially more dangerous than riding on the road.

haha laughable

Sandy Morton said:

Quoted message said:

There is no problem with cycling on pavements, other than it being illegal.

Are you sure? Doesn't it depend on the size/type of cycle.

Age of rider, I think, but I've lost the link.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And a problem for pedestrians.

Who are the greater problem?

Pedestrians are the ones who have the right to be there.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And substantially more dangerous than riding on the road.

Doubtful.

Unless you believe the figures. Just think: junctions, driveways, street furniture, turd dispensers
on leads...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And slower.

Doubtful.

Unless you believe Chris Juden <http://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/46/article9.html>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And bringing cycling into disrepute.

Can we take this to avizandum?

Long way off the beaten for me, mate ;-)

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Beany said:

A friend told me today it is only illegal to cycle on pavements in the UK, is this correct?

It is illegal to cycle on a pavement alongside the road unless it has been designated as a cycle
track or shared use for bicycles as denoted by those little blue circular signs. It comes under
Section 72 of the Highways Act 1835 as amended by Section 85 of the Local Government Act 1888.

It may be illegal to cycle on the pavement away from the road but only if there is a local byelaw
making it illegal

Quoted message said:

I cant see the problem with cycling on pavements as long as they are riding at a slow speed, our
small roads are just too dangerous to cycle on most of the time. Apparently in Poland it is
illegal to cycle on roads.

Apart from it being illegal. Of course you could say that its still OK to do it but that is similar
to a motorist saying they can't see the problem of doing 35mph in a 30mph limit.

Plus roads are far safer than pavements* and cyclepaths almost anywhere in the world. The summary of
research on the topic is at lesberries.co.ukresearch.htmlOpen ↗. Estimates are 2
to 6 times more dangerous.

Tony

* as defined by UK English, not US English

(Beany) said:

A friend told me today it is only illegal to cycle on pavements in the UK, is this correct?

No, it's illegal in many places, and for good reason.

Quoted message said:

I cant see the problem with cycling on pavements as long as they are riding at a slow speed, our
small roads are just too dangerous to cycle on most of the time.

It is between six and ten times _more_ dangerous (more risk of _you_ being killed or seriously
injured) cycling on the pavement than cycling on the road.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

IMHO, there aren't enough committed Christians, but that's care in the community for you.
-- Ben Evans

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Beany said:

A friend told me today it is only illegal to cycle on pavements in the UK, is this correct?

It is illegal to cycle on a pavement alongside the road unless it has been designated as a cycle
track or shared use for bicycles as denoted by those little blue circular signs. It comes under
Section 72 of the Highways Act 1835 as amended by Section 85 of the Local Government Act 1888.

It may be illegal to cycle on the pavement away from the road but only if there is a local byelaw
making it illegal

Quoted message said:

I cant see the problem with cycling on pavements as long as they are riding at a slow speed, our
small roads are just too dangerous to cycle on most of the time. Apparently in Poland it is
illegal to cycle on roads.

Apart from it being illegal. Of course you could say that its still OK to

do

Quoted message said:

it but that is similar to a motorist saying they can't see the problem of doing 35mph in a
30mph limit.

Plus roads are far safer than pavements* and cyclepaths almost anywhere in

the

Quoted message said:

world. The summary of research on the topic is at
lesberries.co.ukresearch.htmlOpen ↗. Estimates are 2

to 6

Quoted message said:

times more dangerous.

I suspect Beany is trolling so I have tried to avoid this thread, but....

I want to make it clear that I do not trust John Franklin's reports on cyclepaths, I believe he is
biased against paths and distorts the figures to make paths seem more dangerous.

Techniques used to increase the apparent danger range from not taking into account accident
severity, to ignoring figures that does show certain types of path to be safer, to just plain
misrepresenting the figures from the sources he quotes.

An example from the lesberries URL you quote.

John Franklin's summary states:

*In Helsinki, using a road-side cycle path is nearly 2.5 times likely to result in injury than
cycling on the carriageway with traffic*

But when we look at the actual report we see that while there really are nearly 2.5 times as many
accidents on the road-side cycle path, that figure is based on almost twice as much mileage on the
paths as on the road.When we normalise for mileage the figure is about 1.24 times.

Guy said he would email John Franklin about this a month ago, I don't know if he did or not but the
page hasn't changed.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is between six and ten times _more_ dangerous (more risk of _you_ being killed or seriously
injured) cycling on the pavement than cycling on the road.

Bollocks, I dont believe that statistic at all thats just propaganda to get cyclists off
the pavement.

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And a problem for pedestrians.

As a pedestrian, I don't think it is *provided* you ride in a couteous and responsible manner (as
one should be anyway).

But I agree cyclists are better off on the road.

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:27:25 -0000 someone who may be "Bummer"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And substantially more dangerous than riding on the road.

haha laughable

You may think so. Google should pull up the figures that support Guy's position.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Sandy Morton said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [Not Responding]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A friend told me today it is only illegal to cycle on pavements in the UK, is this correct?

Quoted message said:

We have enough trouble in this group coping with the Scottish deviancy. But I'm pretty sure your
friend is wrong.

I am not a deviant - my English wife is - she takes her whisky with orange juice :-((

/Jesus!/

God, how disgusting. That is just *blasphemy*.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

IMHO, there aren't enough committed Christians, but that's care in the community for you.
-- Ben Evans

Sandy Morton said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Just zis Guy, you know?"

Quoted message said:

And substantially more dangerous than riding on the road.

Doubtful.

No, not at all, as measured in a number of studies in California, Sweden, Denmark and Germany,
people who cycle on the pavement are between six and ten times as likely to be killed (usually at
junctions) than people who cycle on the road. Cycling on the pavement *against* the flow of traffic
in the ajacent road lane is the single most dangerous thing to do on a bike, statistically.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

IMHO, there aren't enough committed Christians, but that's care in the community for you.
-- Ben Evans

Bummer said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And substantially more dangerous than riding on the road.

haha laughable

Read this: <URL: toronto.caindex.htmOpen ↗ >

and this: <URL: bicyclinglife.comriskfactors.htmOpen ↗ >

and this: <URL: lesberries.co.ukinfra.htmlOpen ↗ >

and then tell us which side of your face you're laughing on.

Seriously, don't cycle on the pavement. Not because you will get in other people's way and annoy
them. Not because it's against the law. Don't cycle on the pavement because according to studies in
several different countries it's the single most dangerous thing - in terms of _you_ getting injured
or killed - you can do on a bike.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

IMHO, there aren't enough committed Christians, but that's care in the community for you.
-- Ben Evans

"Bummer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And substantially more dangerous than riding on the road.

haha laughable

haha true though

--
Dave...

follow this link

newssearch.bbc.co.ukresults.plOpen ↗ s&q=cyclist+death

"Nathaniel Porter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And a problem for pedestrians.

As a pedestrian, I don't think it is *provided* you ride in a couteous and responsible manner (as
one should be anyway).

But I agree cyclists are better off on the road.