Cycling Coaches in Sydney
- Thread starter Gretzky1
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No, but the fastest riders over 50-miles still push down harder than their slower competitors. So presumably the "technique" to be "taught" is to push harder.n crowley said:
I believe I read about a study recently that showed that elite riders' strokes are biased more towards downstroke force than beginning riders'. I'm not sure that means that orienting the force of your pedal strokes with your cranks isn't important though, because it seems likely to me that elite riders' legs are vastly more powerful to begin with. A better answer to the question of pedalling technique might come from analyzing the ratio between useful applied force and force that's applied parallel to the cranks.
I don't know about that study but there is a study that clearly demonstrates that faster national level elite riders push down harder (apply greater downforce as a proportion of total pedal forces around the whole pedal stroke) than their slower state level (but still very well trained) counterparts.Enriss said:
So in effect, they do have greater overall tangential forces applied to the crank, but it is all achieved by pushing down harder.
Trained riders are more powerful because they can produce more power (i.e. work per unit time). I suspect you might be confusing the thought of leg "strength", which is not a limiter in endurance cycling performance.
There goes another thread 
. Alex, do you realize that your presence is the only thing that makes all this still "on topic"?
N crowley, it may interest you to know that sometimes I purposely mash more down on the pedals than it's natural for me. Yup, that's what all this circular pedalling technique talk has done to me, and I appreciate it.
. Alex, do you realize that your presence is the only thing that makes all this still "on topic"? N crowley, it may interest you to know that sometimes I purposely mash more down on the pedals than it's natural for me. Yup, that's what all this circular pedalling technique talk has done to me, and I appreciate it.
Ah, that was exactly the study I was trying to remember. I don't think I'm confusing this with the concept of leg "strength" at all. We're both in perfect agreement that this is all about sustainable power ouput.Alex Simmons said:
The question I think we're arguing about is whether there might be any benefit to be had from pushing harder in other parts of the stroke, instead of focusing just on the downward press. If anything, this would reduce the maximal leg strength used in the stroke, since the goal would be to spread force development over the whole stroke. We might hope to see some efficiency gains by doing this.
I imagine that the maximal aerobic power output of a muscle is limited by the amount of oxygen that can be carried to the muscle, and I assume there's some sort of interplay between the V02 max, the surface area of blood vessels inside the muscle groups and the volume of blood pumping through the muscle groups. If there's an advantage in using smaller muscle groups to assist the pedals through the motion, it seems like it must come from loading the muscle groups proportionately to their ability to create power.
Piotr said:There goes another thread
N crowley, it may interest you to know that sometimes I purposely mash more down on the pedals than it's natural for me. Yup, that's what all this circular pedalling technique talk has done to me, and I appreciate it.
Pedalling style may not be the name of the thread but it was one of the main concerns of the OP, but unfortunately he was advised it was unimportant and to steer clear of any coach who focussed on it. Why your obsession with the circular style, it's the weakest of all techniques, ideal for touring riders but not for competition.
Enriss said:
Pretty sure there was a study where riders were instructed to apply force in various manners through the pedal stroke and mashing came out on top.
Didn't Coyle et al 1991 find that Cat 1 actually delivered power through less of the stroke but still more overall power than Cat 2 riders.
Far bigger fish to fry for any coach than pedalling technique. Spent yesterday at the track working with 8-16 year old newbies on a lot of technique correcting errors and coaching proper skills and didn't see any pedalling techniques that desperately needed correcting.
Yes.fergie said:
Yes.
Yes.
On the latter, I see bike fits that need correcting but rarely pedalling technique once they have a good bike fit.
fergie said:
What are the other areas of cycling (road TT's, the races of truth) so important that they make pedalling technique unimportant and something to be dismissed as a waste of valuable coaching time. How can you explain the fact that it took cycling experts and coaches 100 years to realize the importance of an aerodynamic hand position in TT's.
n crowley said:
Alex said it best either here or on his blog, power, pacing and piercing.
Funny Frank should mention the British Cycling I was chatting to one of their coaches and as a side question I asked did they use Powercranks, his reply was no.
In what way is Lance's TT position unique?
n crowley said:
I think they figured out aerodynamics was relevent to cycling a long time ago. Land speed records set behind a train etc.
I did see a study on thumb position at the biketechreview site but here we are getting into small gain territory. At $1000/hr for US based wind tunnels I think there are bigger fish to fry when looking for aero advantages.
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