Cycling and losing weight

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have lost 3 pounds the last two weeks just on cycling alone. I have not
been counting carbs. But, a phenomenon is making me wonder. The last two
days I have ridden, my stomach starts growling in the middle of the ride.
Today, I rode 37 miles and the other time was 35 miles. I have not taken

any

Quoted message said:

snacks in a long time--mainly because I forget to do so. I drink a liter

of

Quoted message said:

water an hour, approximately.

So, today when we stopped for a brief rest stop, I asked someone why he

was

Quoted message said:

eating that Clif bar. "Is your stomach growling?" sez I. He was

surprised.

Quoted message said:

He said he was just eating because it was "the thing to do" at a rest

stop.

Quoted message said:

I used to bring along string cheese (and I still would do so if I could
remember) and munch on that--but not because I was hungry; just because I
thought I should eat something about 1 1/2 hours into the ride. Total ride
time is about 2 hours and 30-40 minutes.

No food on a 2.5 hour ride? Keep it up, and you'll soon be introduced to
Mr. Bonk.

Seriously, for rides over an hour most experts recommend consuming 200-300
calories per hour (after the first hour), plus something with electrolytes
(e.g., a sports drink), especially if it's hot.

You're burning quite a bit more calories than you're consuming anyway, but
if you run your glycogen stores down too low, you won't be able to burn fat
anyway (or, do much of anything). That's called bonking, and it's not very
pleasant at all (apologies to UK readers - I understand it has a different
meaning on your side of the water).

Also, if you go on long rides in the heat without replacing electrolytes,
you may become familiar with Mr. Hyponatremia, a potentially serious
condition caused by low blood sodium levels.

GG

Quoted message said:

I am wondering if a growling stomach is an indicator that I could be

losing

Quoted message said:

weight. As it happened at 10 O'clock a.m. and I didn't get to eat lunch
until 12:30 p.m., I rode along thinking that maybe--just maybe--my body

was

Quoted message said:

working on breaking down some fat cells in there. I didn't have any
"bonking" problems. In fact, today was a strong day for me. I was going
along over 20 mph on the flats (usually around 22) and on the hills I kept
it to 16, minimum.

Maybe I'm just breaking all the rules about replacement electrolytes and
eating glucose, but it hasn't hurt me that I know. My "sample of one" is
doing just fine on this unusual regimen. Even my lunch wasn't high in

carbs=

Quoted message said:

3 small cheese quesadillas with jalapenos and chopped up tomatoes in low
carb wheat tortillas. And iced tea with Splenda.

Pat in TX

:
: No food on a 2.5 hour ride? Keep it up, and you'll soon be introduced to
: Mr. Bonk.
:
: Seriously, for rides over an hour most experts recommend consuming 200-300
: calories per hour (after the first hour), plus something with electrolytes
: (e.g., a sports drink), especially if it's hot.
:
: You're burning quite a bit more calories than you're consuming anyway, but
: if you run your glycogen stores down too low, you won't be able to burn
fat
: anyway (or, do much of anything). That's called bonking, and it's not
very
: pleasant at all (apologies to UK readers - I understand it has a different
: meaning on your side of the water).
:
: Also, if you go on long rides in the heat without replacing electrolytes,
: you may become familiar with Mr. Hyponatremia, a potentially serious
: condition caused by low blood sodium levels.
:
: GG

Yeah, I've heard all of that before, and I know you mean well. Problem is, I
have been doing this now for about 2 years with no ill effects. I haven't
even felt faint or woozy or anything. I used to eat the cheese sticks at the
rest stops, and I probably should still do that. If I can remember to pack
them. Now, when I go on a long ride, say 100 K, then I eat a banana, have a
peach, or drink some Gatorade or something like that. But, these rides under
40 miles don't seem to bother me physically. What I am thinking is that I
must have some humungous amount of glycogen stored somewhere. Or, maybe my
body has just adapted to the low carb way of life so much that it is burning
fat for fuel instead of glycogen? Something is going on, that's for sure.

Pat in TX, where, yes, it's hot. And humid lately, but that's just July,
right?

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

:
: No food on a 2.5 hour ride? Keep it up, and you'll soon be introduced

to

Quoted message said:

: Mr. Bonk.
:
: Seriously, for rides over an hour most experts recommend consuming

200-300

Quoted message said:

: calories per hour (after the first hour), plus something with

electrolytes

Quoted message said:

: (e.g., a sports drink), especially if it's hot.
:
: You're burning quite a bit more calories than you're consuming anyway,

but

Quoted message said:

: if you run your glycogen stores down too low, you won't be able to burn
fat
: anyway (or, do much of anything). That's called bonking, and it's not
very
: pleasant at all (apologies to UK readers - I understand it has a

different

Quoted message said:

: meaning on your side of the water).
:
: Also, if you go on long rides in the heat without replacing

electrolytes,

Quoted message said:

: you may become familiar with Mr. Hyponatremia, a potentially serious
: condition caused by low blood sodium levels.
:
: GG

Yeah, I've heard all of that before, and I know you mean well. Problem is,

I

Quoted message said:

have been doing this now for about 2 years with no ill effects. I haven't
even felt faint or woozy or anything. I used to eat the cheese sticks at

the

Quoted message said:

rest stops, and I probably should still do that. If I can remember to pack
them. Now, when I go on a long ride, say 100 K, then I eat a banana, have

a

Quoted message said:

peach, or drink some Gatorade or something like that. But, these rides

under

Quoted message said:

40 miles don't seem to bother me physically. What I am thinking is that I
must have some humungous amount of glycogen stored somewhere. Or, maybe

my

Quoted message said:

body has just adapted to the low carb way of life so much that it is

burning

Quoted message said:

fat for fuel instead of glycogen? Something is going on, that's for sure.

Perhaps you're somewhat more efficient at turning stored fat into energy,
but I kind of doubt it. It's my understanding that our bodies become very
inefficient at converting fat to energy when glycogen stores are depleted
(this is the definition of a "bonk"😉. You end up with no energy at all,
even though you have plenty of fat reserves available.

It may also have to do with intensity level - at higher intensities your
body is forced to burn a higher percentage of glycogen than fat. If you're
exercising at lower intensity levels, it may be possible that you've not
encountered the bonk because your body is able to keep up with energy
demands via fat.

Regardless, if you ever decide to do a longer or harder ride in the heat
(e.g., the Hotter than Hell 100), not eating and not consuming electrolytes
could prove very, very unpleasant. You can get away with a lot of bad
practices on rides less than 40 miles that will take you down hard on
longer, or more intense, efforts.

GG

Quoted message said:

Pat in TX, where, yes, it's hot. And humid lately, but that's just July,
right?

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

:
: No food on a 2.5 hour ride? Keep it up, and you'll soon be introduced

to

Quoted message said:

: Mr. Bonk.
:
: Seriously, for rides over an hour most experts recommend consuming

200-300

Quoted message said:

: calories per hour (after the first hour), plus something with

electrolytes

Quoted message said:

: (e.g., a sports drink), especially if it's hot.
:
: You're burning quite a bit more calories than you're consuming anyway,

but

Quoted message said:

: if you run your glycogen stores down too low, you won't be able to burn
fat
: anyway (or, do much of anything). That's called bonking, and it's not
very
: pleasant at all (apologies to UK readers - I understand it has a

different

Quoted message said:

: meaning on your side of the water).
:
: Also, if you go on long rides in the heat without replacing

electrolytes,

Quoted message said:

: you may become familiar with Mr. Hyponatremia, a potentially serious
: condition caused by low blood sodium levels.
:
: GG

Yeah, I've heard all of that before, and I know you mean well. Problem is,

I

Quoted message said:

have been doing this now for about 2 years with no ill effects. I haven't
even felt faint or woozy or anything. I used to eat the cheese sticks at

the

Quoted message said:

rest stops, and I probably should still do that. If I can remember to pack
them. Now, when I go on a long ride, say 100 K, then I eat a banana, have

a

Quoted message said:

peach, or drink some Gatorade or something like that. But, these rides

under

Quoted message said:

40 miles don't seem to bother me physically. What I am thinking is that I
must have some humungous amount of glycogen stored somewhere. Or, maybe

my

Quoted message said:

body has just adapted to the low carb way of life so much that it is

burning

Quoted message said:

fat for fuel instead of glycogen? Something is going on, that's for sure.

Pat in TX, where, yes, it's hot. And humid lately, but that's just July,
right?

FWIW, it was 111 degrees F here yesterday. Even though the humidity never
got above about 12%, that's still pretty darned hot.

And, no, I didn't go out riding in it.

GG

Quoted message said:

Pat <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> I have lost 3 pounds the last two weeks just on cycling alone. I
:> have not been counting carbs. But, a phenomenon is making me wonder.
:> The last two days I have ridden, my stomach starts growling in the
:> middle of the ride. Today, I rode 37 miles and the other time was 35
:> miles. I have not taken any snacks in a long time--mainly because I
:> forget to do so. I drink a liter of water an hour, approximately.
:>
:> So, today when we stopped for a brief rest stop, I asked someone why
:> he was eating that Clif bar. "Is your stomach growling?" sez I. He
:> was surprised. He said he was just eating because it was "the thing
:> to do" at a rest stop. I used to bring along string cheese (and I
:> still would do so if I could remember) and munch on that--but not
:> because I was hungry; just because I thought I should eat something
:> about 1 1/2 hours into the ride. Total ride time is about 2 hours
:> and 30-40 minutes.
:>
:> I am wondering if a growling stomach is an indicator that I could be
:> losing weight. As it happened at 10 O'clock a.m. and I didn't get to
:> eat lunch until 12:30 p.m., I rode along thinking that maybe--just
:> maybe--my body was working on breaking down some fat cells in there.
:> I didn't have any "bonking" problems. In fact, today was a strong
:> day for me. I was going along over 20 mph on the flats (usually
:> around 22) and on the hills I kept it to 16, minimum.
:>
:> Maybe I'm just breaking all the rules about replacement electrolytes
:> and eating glucose, but it hasn't hurt me that I know. My "sample
:> of one" is doing just fine on this unusual regimen. Even my lunch
:> wasn't high in carbs= 3 small cheese quesadillas with jalapenos and
:> chopped up tomatoes in low carb wheat tortillas. And iced tea with
:> Splenda.
:>

I ride around 40 miles without eating on a routine basis (I usually have a
clif bar with me, but I don't eat it - and I've had the same one for months
now). I think you're lighter than I am...my guess is that it would be
easier for you to do that than for me to, all things considered. I do think
the growling is a good indicator that you're losing weight, though.

GaryG <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> "Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:> news:[email hidden]...
:> >
:> > :
:> > : No food on a 2.5 hour ride? Keep it up, and you'll soon be
:> > : introduced
:> to
:> > : Mr. Bonk.
:> > :
:> > : Seriously, for rides over an hour most experts recommend
:> > : consuming
:> 200-300
:> > : calories per hour (after the first hour), plus something with
:> electrolytes
:> > : (e.g., a sports drink), especially if it's hot.
:> > :
:> > : You're burning quite a bit more calories than you're consuming
:> > : anyway,
:> but
:> > : if you run your glycogen stores down too low, you won't be able
:> > : to burn
:> > fat
:> > : anyway (or, do much of anything). That's called bonking, and
:> > : it's not
:> > very
:> > : pleasant at all (apologies to UK readers - I understand it has a
:> different
:> > : meaning on your side of the water).
:> > :
:> > : Also, if you go on long rides in the heat without replacing
:> electrolytes,
:> > : you may become familiar with Mr. Hyponatremia, a potentially
:> > : serious condition caused by low blood sodium levels.
:> > :
:> > : GG
:> >
:> > Yeah, I've heard all of that before, and I know you mean well.
:> > Problem is,
:> I
:> > have been doing this now for about 2 years with no ill effects. I
:> > haven't even felt faint or woozy or anything. I used to eat the
:> > cheese sticks at
:> the
:> > rest stops, and I probably should still do that. If I can remember
:> > to pack them. Now, when I go on a long ride, say 100 K, then I eat
:> > a banana, have
:> a
:> > peach, or drink some Gatorade or something like that. But, these
:> > rides
:> under
:> > 40 miles don't seem to bother me physically. What I am thinking is
:> > that I must have some humungous amount of glycogen stored
:> > somewhere. Or, maybe
:> my
:> > body has just adapted to the low carb way of life so much that it
:> > is
:> burning
:> > fat for fuel instead of glycogen? Something is going on, that's
:> > for sure.
:>
:> Perhaps you're somewhat more efficient at turning stored fat into
:> energy, but I kind of doubt it. It's my understanding that our
:> bodies become very inefficient at converting fat to energy when
:> glycogen stores are depleted (this is the definition of a "bonk"😉.
:> You end up with no energy at all, even though you have plenty of fat
:> reserves available.
:>
:> It may also have to do with intensity level - at higher intensities
:> your body is forced to burn a higher percentage of glycogen than
:> fat. If you're exercising at lower intensity levels, it may be
:> possible that you've not encountered the bonk because your body is
:> able to keep up with energy demands via fat.

I think that's basically what's going on. Also, since he isn't really
counting carbs before riding, he has some glycogen reserves before starting.

:>
:> Regardless, if you ever decide to do a longer or harder ride in the
:> heat (e.g., the Hotter than Hell 100), not eating and not consuming
:> electrolytes could prove very, very unpleasant. You can get away
:> with a lot of bad practices on rides less than 40 miles that will
:> take you down hard on longer, or more intense, efforts.
:>
:> GG
:>
:> >
:> > Pat in TX, where, yes, it's hot. And humid lately, but that's just
:> > July, right?

"GaryG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Regardless, if you ever decide to do a longer or harder ride in the heat
(e.g., the Hotter than Hell 100), not eating and not consuming

electrolytes

Quoted message said:

could prove very, very unpleasant. You can get away with a lot of bad
practices on rides less than 40 miles that will take you down hard on
longer, or more intense, efforts.

Technically, I think it's the 'Hotter 'N Hell 100.'

--
No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

GaryG said:

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have lost 3 pounds the last two weeks just on cycling alone. I have
not
been counting carbs. But, a phenomenon is making me wonder. The last two
days I have ridden, my stomach starts growling in the middle of the
ride.
Today, I rode 37 miles and the other time was 35 miles. I have not taken

any

Quoted message said:

snacks in a long time--mainly because I forget to do so. I drink a liter

of

Quoted message said:

water an hour, approximately.

So, today when we stopped for a brief rest stop, I asked someone why he

was

Quoted message said:

eating that Clif bar. "Is your stomach growling?" sez I. He was

surprised.

Quoted message said:

He said he was just eating because it was "the thing to do" at a rest

stop.

Quoted message said:

I used to bring along string cheese (and I still would do so if I could
remember) and munch on that--but not because I was hungry; just because
I
thought I should eat something about 1 1/2 hours into the ride. Total
ride
time is about 2 hours and 30-40 minutes.

No food on a 2.5 hour ride? Keep it up, and you'll soon be introduced to
Mr. Bonk.

Seriously, for rides over an hour most experts recommend consuming
200-300
calories per hour (after the first hour), plus something with
electrolytes
(e.g., a sports drink), especially if it's hot.

Most "experts" also recommend a low fat diet. I eat about 60 calories an
hour for 60+ mile rides.

Quoted message said:

You're burning quite a bit more calories than you're consuming anyway,
but
if you run your glycogen stores down too low, you won't be able to burn
fat
anyway (or, do much of anything). That's called bonking, and it's not
very
pleasant at all (apologies to UK readers - I understand it has a
different
meaning on your side of the water).

Also, if you go on long rides in the heat without replacing electrolytes,
you may become familiar with Mr. Hyponatremia, a potentially serious
condition caused by low blood sodium levels.

GG

Supposedly, "bonking" occurs when there's no carbs in the liver. Since
we're low carbing and have no (or very few) carbs in the liver, we might
not bonk. Personally, I plan on riding a century and 125 mile ride this
year, plus many 60-90 mile rides. I don't eat too many carbs per day (my
typical day will be 4 low carb tortillas, eggs, salsa, ground meat, a
tomatoe, part of an onion, etc.). I'm currently biking about 100 miles
per week, plus three days of high intensity weight lifting. I think that
some carbs are necessary, and I also prefer to eat/drink during a long
ride. But I'm unconvinced that you need that many calories per ride.
Maybe if you're riding the TDF, but not if you're riding around town.

--
Bob M
remove ".x" to reply

"Bob M" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:17:43 -0700, GaryG <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have lost 3 pounds the last two weeks just on cycling alone. I have
not
been counting carbs. But, a phenomenon is making me wonder. The last

two

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

days I have ridden, my stomach starts growling in the middle of the
ride.
Today, I rode 37 miles and the other time was 35 miles. I have not

taken

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

any

Quoted message said:

snacks in a long time--mainly because I forget to do so. I drink a

liter

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

water an hour, approximately.

So, today when we stopped for a brief rest stop, I asked someone why he

was

Quoted message said:

eating that Clif bar. "Is your stomach growling?" sez I. He was

surprised.

Quoted message said:

He said he was just eating because it was "the thing to do" at a rest

stop.

Quoted message said:

I used to bring along string cheese (and I still would do so if I could
remember) and munch on that--but not because I was hungry; just because
I
thought I should eat something about 1 1/2 hours into the ride. Total
ride
time is about 2 hours and 30-40 minutes.

No food on a 2.5 hour ride? Keep it up, and you'll soon be introduced

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mr. Bonk.

Seriously, for rides over an hour most experts recommend consuming
200-300
calories per hour (after the first hour), plus something with
electrolytes
(e.g., a sports drink), especially if it's hot.

Most "experts" also recommend a low fat diet. I eat about 60 calories an
hour for 60+ mile rides.

That sure seems low to me, but it depends somewhat on your riding intensity.
I tend to ride pretty hard, and it's mountainous where I do most of my
cycling, so I normally burn 700-900 calories per hour. Only consuming 60
calories as replacement would not be nearly enough to keep up with my body's
demands for energy, and would eventually lead to bonking. Maybe not in the
first hour or two, but eventually I'd run out of glycogen stores unless I
refueled more than that.

Does the 60 cal/hr include sports drink, food, gels, etc.?

FWIW, I'm unaware of any serious cycling authorities who recommend
low-carbing. The consensus seems to be that it might be a way for sedentary
people with carb addictions to lose weight, but that for athletes it doesn't
make much sense (athletes need carbs for fuel, and can lose weight more
easily by virtue of their higher activity levels).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You're burning quite a bit more calories than you're consuming anyway,
but
if you run your glycogen stores down too low, you won't be able to burn
fat
anyway (or, do much of anything). That's called bonking, and it's not
very
pleasant at all (apologies to UK readers - I understand it has a
different
meaning on your side of the water).

Also, if you go on long rides in the heat without replacing

electrolytes,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you may become familiar with Mr. Hyponatremia, a potentially serious
condition caused by low blood sodium levels.

GG

Supposedly, "bonking" occurs when there's no carbs in the liver. Since
we're low carbing and have no (or very few) carbs in the liver, we might
not bonk.

That doesn't seem to make sense...even if you're low carbing, your body
needs glycogen to keep basic processes going. I would think you would be
somewhat more susceptible to bonking...if you're riding long, or at higher
levels of intensity.

Quoted message said:

Personally, I plan on riding a century and 125 mile ride this
year, plus many 60-90 mile rides. I don't eat too many carbs per day (my
typical day will be 4 low carb tortillas, eggs, salsa, ground meat, a
tomatoe, part of an onion, etc.). I'm currently biking about 100 miles
per week, plus three days of high intensity weight lifting. I think that
some carbs are necessary, and I also prefer to eat/drink during a long
ride. But I'm unconvinced that you need that many calories per ride.
Maybe if you're riding the TDF, but not if you're riding around town.

Agreed...too many people drink a bottle of Gatorade and eat a Power Bar, on
a 25 mile ride around town. That's completely unnecessary (though the
Gatorade can help replace electrolytes if it's hot). But, for longer,
harder rides, proper fueling becomes more important. Let us know how that
125 mile ride goes (how many calories you consume, and your average speed,
etc.).

Quoted message said:

--
Bob M
remove ".x" to reply

Bob M said:

But I'm unconvinced that you need that
many calories per ride. Maybe if you're riding the TDF, but not if
you're riding around town.

Out of curiosity, what kind of speeds are we talking about? 15? 17? 20?

--
jmk in NC

GaryG wrote:
:: "Bob M" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:17:43 -0700, GaryG
::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::
:::: "Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:::: news:[email hidden]...
::::: I have lost 3 pounds the last two weeks just on cycling alone. I
::::: have not
::::: been counting carbs. But, a phenomenon is making me wonder. The
::::: last two days I have ridden, my stomach starts growling in the
::::: middle of the ride.
::::: Today, I rode 37 miles and the other time was 35 miles. I have
::::: not taken any snacks in a long time--mainly because I forget to
::::: do so. I drink a liter of water an hour, approximately.
:::::
::::: So, today when we stopped for a brief rest stop, I asked someone
::::: why he was eating that Clif bar. "Is your stomach growling?" sez
::::: I. He was surprised. He said he was just eating because it was
::::: "the thing to do" at a rest stop. I used to bring along string
::::: cheese (and I still would do so if I could remember) and munch on
::::: that--but not because I was hungry; just because I
::::: thought I should eat something about 1 1/2 hours into the ride.
::::: Total ride
::::: time is about 2 hours and 30-40 minutes.
::::
:::: No food on a 2.5 hour ride? Keep it up, and you'll soon be
:::: introduced to Mr. Bonk.
::::
:::: Seriously, for rides over an hour most experts recommend consuming
:::: 200-300
:::: calories per hour (after the first hour), plus something with
:::: electrolytes
:::: (e.g., a sports drink), especially if it's hot.
:::
::: Most "experts" also recommend a low fat diet. I eat about 60
::: calories an hour for 60+ mile rides.
::
:: That sure seems low to me, but it depends somewhat on your riding
:: intensity. I tend to ride pretty hard, and it's mountainous where I
:: do most of my cycling, so I normally burn 700-900 calories per hour.

I agree 100% that it depends on intensity. Once I get on hills and start
really trying to push myself, then the need for carb replacement becomes
serious.

:: Only consuming 60 calories as replacement would not be nearly enough
:: to keep up with my body's demands for energy, and would eventually
:: lead to bonking. Maybe not in the first hour or two, but eventually
:: I'd run out of glycogen stores unless I refueled more than that.

I can last about 2.5 hours in moderate-intensity riding (for me, btw) if I
don't get carbs. But that's starting from a relatively low-carb state in
the first place. I think if I walked around fully glycogen loaded I could
go longer, but I would eventually, as you say, hit the bonk.

::
:: Does the 60 cal/hr include sports drink, food, gels, etc.?
::
:: FWIW, I'm unaware of any serious cycling authorities who recommend
:: low-carbing.

But for whom are those recommendations written?

:: The consensus seems to be that it might be a way for
:: sedentary people with carb addictions to lose weight, but that for
:: athletes it doesn't make much sense (athletes need carbs for fuel,
:: and can lose weight more easily by virtue of their higher activity
:: levels).

What is the definition of athlete? If I ride my bike 100+ miles per week
(on average) and do weight lifting 3x per week, am I part of that club?
Here's one definition:

ath·lete
n.
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength,
agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports,
especially those performed in competitive contexts.

Hmm.....even though I enjoy riding and lifting, I'm not sure I qualify. By
the same token, I'm also not sedentary. I do think that in general more
carbs are needed to sustain large amounts of hard riding (as measured by MY
body!). I don't think that I'll ever reach a state where that's not true.

::
:::
:::: You're burning quite a bit more calories than you're consuming
:::: anyway, but
:::: if you run your glycogen stores down too low, you won't be able to
:::: burn fat
:::: anyway (or, do much of anything). That's called bonking, and it's
:::: not very
:::: pleasant at all (apologies to UK readers - I understand it has a
:::: different
:::: meaning on your side of the water).
::::
:::: Also, if you go on long rides in the heat without replacing
:::: electrolytes, you may become familiar with Mr. Hyponatremia, a
:::: potentially serious condition caused by low blood sodium levels.
::::
:::: GG
::::
:::
:::
::: Supposedly, "bonking" occurs when there's no carbs in the liver.
::: Since we're low carbing and have no (or very few) carbs in the
::: liver, we might not bonk.
::
:: That doesn't seem to make sense...even if you're low carbing, your
:: body needs glycogen to keep basic processes going. I would think
:: you would be somewhat more susceptible to bonking...if you're riding
:: long, or at higher levels of intensity.

Even though I know I can generally get about 40 miles without bonking during
the ride, I typcially get hypo afterwards. And if I go more than that, I'll
bonk during the ride. And I'm talking about not taking any carbs in while
riding (I fill my water bottles with fruit20, typically). A week from
tomorrow I'm doing a 65-mile ride with about 5000 ft of climbing, so I'm
going to have carbs before, during, and after. I don't want to take a
chance bonking in an unknown location on a hot day.

::
::: Personally, I plan on riding a century and 125 mile ride this
::: year, plus many 60-90 mile rides. I don't eat too many carbs per
::: day (my typical day will be 4 low carb tortillas, eggs, salsa,
::: ground meat, a tomatoe, part of an onion, etc.). I'm currently
::: biking about 100 miles per week, plus three days of high intensity
::: weight lifting. I think that some carbs are necessary, and I also
::: prefer to eat/drink during a long ride. But I'm unconvinced that
::: you need that many calories per ride. Maybe if you're riding the
::: TDF, but not if you're riding around town.
::
:: Agreed...too many people drink a bottle of Gatorade and eat a Power
:: Bar, on a 25 mile ride around town. That's completely unnecessary
:: (though the Gatorade can help replace electrolytes if it's hot).
:: But, for longer, harder rides, proper fueling becomes more
:: important.

Agreed. I do think that those who are very light can probably perform, in
absolute terms (ie, speed, etc.), longer than those who are heavier, with
fewer carbs. However, if they push their personal limits they will bonk too
without proper fueling.

I think the main problem in these discussions is that we're taking
recommendations meant for competitive sports and applying them to
recreational riders (non racers) who probably don't push their limits all
the time. Some people just have it such that they can do a 100-mile ride at
good speed (absolute measure) without really taxing themselves at or very
near their limits (relative measure). How else could those TdF riders do
almost 3-weeks of century rides everyday with drugs (er, well.....)

:: Let us know how that 125 mile ride goes (how many
:: calories you consume, and your average speed, etc.).

Please do have some carbs while doing it, at least.

::
::: --
::: Bob M
::: remove ".x" to reply

: Perhaps you're somewhat more efficient at turning stored fat into energy,
: but I kind of doubt it. It's my understanding that our bodies become very
: inefficient at converting fat to energy when glycogen stores are depleted
: (this is the definition of a "bonk"😉. You end up with no energy at all,
: even though you have plenty of fat reserves available.
:
: It may also have to do with intensity level - at higher intensities your
: body is forced to burn a higher percentage of glycogen than fat. If
you're
: exercising at lower intensity levels, it may be possible that you've not
: encountered the bonk because your body is able to keep up with energy
: demands via fat.
:
: Regardless, if you ever decide to do a longer or harder ride in the heat
: (e.g., the Hotter than Hell 100), not eating and not consuming
electrolytes
: could prove very, very unpleasant. You can get away with a lot of bad
: practices on rides less than 40 miles that will take you down hard on
: longer, or more intense, efforts.
:
: GG

I have been out of town for about a week. What I think is going on is that
the Atkins diet made my body more efficient at burning fat. My body seems to
switch over to burning fat with ease. If you think that 3 hours of going up
and down hills (usually at about 16 mph) and on the flats and rollers at
18-20 mph is low intensity, I would disagree. As for the Hotter 'n' Hell, I
have done 3 of them so far, as well as 3 of the Waco Wild West 100 rides.
My last 4 of the Hotter 'n' Hell and Waco Wild West 100s have been done
while I was on the Atkins diet. I did not pre-carbo-load at all. I just ate
the fruit at the rest stops (plus the sausages at rest stop 5) and I drank
the PowerAde or whatever it was during the ride. No carboloading the night
before or anything. I stopped at most rest stops--well, except for #1 and
#3. I am not one of these people who try to do the 100 in 4 hours.

Pat in TX

: Perhaps you're somewhat more efficient at turning stored fat into energy,
: but I kind of doubt it. It's my understanding that our bodies become very
: inefficient at converting fat to energy when glycogen stores are depleted
: (this is the definition of a "bonk"😉. You end up with no energy at all,
: even though you have plenty of fat reserves available.
:
: It may also have to do with intensity level - at higher intensities your
: body is forced to burn a higher percentage of glycogen than fat. If
you're
: exercising at lower intensity levels, it may be possible that you've not
: encountered the bonk because your body is able to keep up with energy
: demands via fat.
:
: Regardless, if you ever decide to do a longer or harder ride in the heat
: (e.g., the Hotter than Hell 100), not eating and not consuming
electrolytes
: could prove very, very unpleasant. You can get away with a lot of bad
: practices on rides less than 40 miles that will take you down hard on
: longer, or more intense, efforts.
:
: GG

I have been out of town for about a week. What I think is going on is that
the Atkins diet made my body more efficient at burning fat. My body seems to
switch over to burning fat with ease. If you think that 3 hours of going up
and down hills (usually at about 16 mph) and on the flats and rollers at
18-20 mph is low intensity, I would disagree. As for the Hotter 'n' Hell, I
have done 3 of them so far, as well as 3 of the Waco Wild West 100 rides.
My last 4 of the Hotter 'n' Hell and Waco Wild West 100s have been done
while I was on the Atkins diet. I did not pre-carbo-load at all. I just ate
the fruit at the rest stops (plus the sausages at rest stop 5) and I drank
the PowerAde or whatever it was during the ride. No carboloading the night
before or anything. I stopped at most rest stops--well, except for #1 and
#3. I am not one of these people who try to do the 100 in 4 hours.

Pat in TX

: Perhaps you're somewhat more efficient at turning stored fat into energy,
: but I kind of doubt it. It's my understanding that our bodies become very
: inefficient at converting fat to energy when glycogen stores are depleted
: (this is the definition of a "bonk"😉. You end up with no energy at all,
: even though you have plenty of fat reserves available.
:
: It may also have to do with intensity level - at higher intensities your
: body is forced to burn a higher percentage of glycogen than fat. If
you're
: exercising at lower intensity levels, it may be possible that you've not
: encountered the bonk because your body is able to keep up with energy
: demands via fat.
:
: Regardless, if you ever decide to do a longer or harder ride in the heat
: (e.g., the Hotter than Hell 100), not eating and not consuming
electrolytes
: could prove very, very unpleasant. You can get away with a lot of bad
: practices on rides less than 40 miles that will take you down hard on
: longer, or more intense, efforts.
:
: GG

I have been out of town for about a week. What I think is going on is that
the Atkins diet made my body more efficient at burning fat. My body seems to
switch over to burning fat with ease. If you think that 3 hours of going up
and down hills (usually at about 16 mph) and on the flats and rollers at
18-20 mph is low intensity, I would disagree. As for the Hotter 'n' Hell, I
have done 3 of them so far, as well as 3 of the Waco Wild West 100 rides.
My last 4 of the Hotter 'n' Hell and Waco Wild West 100s have been done
while I was on the Atkins diet. I did not pre-carbo-load at all. I just ate
the fruit at the rest stops (plus the sausages at rest stop 5) and I drank
the PowerAde or whatever it was during the ride. No carboloading the night
before or anything. I stopped at most rest stops--well, except for #1 and
#3. I am not one of these people who try to do the 100 in 4 hours.

Pat in TX

: Perhaps you're somewhat more efficient at turning stored fat into energy,
: but I kind of doubt it. It's my understanding that our bodies become very
: inefficient at converting fat to energy when glycogen stores are depleted
: (this is the definition of a "bonk"😉. You end up with no energy at all,
: even though you have plenty of fat reserves available.
:
: It may also have to do with intensity level - at higher intensities your
: body is forced to burn a higher percentage of glycogen than fat. If
you're
: exercising at lower intensity levels, it may be possible that you've not
: encountered the bonk because your body is able to keep up with energy
: demands via fat.
:
: Regardless, if you ever decide to do a longer or harder ride in the heat
: (e.g., the Hotter than Hell 100), not eating and not consuming
electrolytes
: could prove very, very unpleasant. You can get away with a lot of bad
: practices on rides less than 40 miles that will take you down hard on
: longer, or more intense, efforts.
:
: GG

I have been out of town for about a week. What I think is going on is that
the Atkins diet made my body more efficient at burning fat. My body seems to
switch over to burning fat with ease. If you think that 3 hours of going up
and down hills (usually at about 16 mph) and on the flats and rollers at
18-20 mph is low intensity, I would disagree. As for the Hotter 'n' Hell, I
have done 3 of them so far, as well as 3 of the Waco Wild West 100 rides.
My last 4 of the Hotter 'n' Hell and Waco Wild West 100s have been done
while I was on the Atkins diet. I did not pre-carbo-load at all. I just ate
the fruit at the rest stops (plus the sausages at rest stop 5) and I drank
the PowerAde or whatever it was during the ride. No carboloading the night
before or anything. I stopped at most rest stops--well, except for #1 and
#3. I am not one of these people who try to do the 100 in 4 hours.

Pat in TX

: Perhaps you're somewhat more efficient at turning stored fat into energy,
: but I kind of doubt it. It's my understanding that our bodies become very
: inefficient at converting fat to energy when glycogen stores are depleted
: (this is the definition of a "bonk"😉. You end up with no energy at all,
: even though you have plenty of fat reserves available.
:
: It may also have to do with intensity level - at higher intensities your
: body is forced to burn a higher percentage of glycogen than fat. If
you're
: exercising at lower intensity levels, it may be possible that you've not
: encountered the bonk because your body is able to keep up with energy
: demands via fat.
:
: Regardless, if you ever decide to do a longer or harder ride in the heat
: (e.g., the Hotter than Hell 100), not eating and not consuming
electrolytes
: could prove very, very unpleasant. You can get away with a lot of bad
: practices on rides less than 40 miles that will take you down hard on
: longer, or more intense, efforts.
:
: GG

I have been out of town for about a week. What I think is going on is that
the Atkins diet made my body more efficient at burning fat. My body seems to
switch over to burning fat with ease. If you think that 3 hours of going up
and down hills (usually at about 16 mph) and on the flats and rollers at
18-20 mph is low intensity, I would disagree. As for the Hotter 'n' Hell, I
have done 3 of them so far, as well as 3 of the Waco Wild West 100 rides.
My last 4 of the Hotter 'n' Hell and Waco Wild West 100s have been done
while I was on the Atkins diet. I did not pre-carbo-load at all. I just ate
the fruit at the rest stops (plus the sausages at rest stop 5) and I drank
the PowerAde or whatever it was during the ride. No carboloading the night
before or anything. I stopped at most rest stops--well, except for #1 and
#3. I am not one of these people who try to do the 100 in 4 hours.

Pat in TX

: :> It may also have to do with intensity level - at higher intensities
: :> your body is forced to burn a higher percentage of glycogen than
: :> fat. If you're exercising at lower intensity levels, it may be
: :> possible that you've not encountered the bonk because your body is
: :> able to keep up with energy demands via fat.
:
: I think that's basically what's going on. Also, since he isn't really
: counting carbs before riding, he has some glycogen reserves before
starting.

It's true that I probably have more glycogen reserves now that I am on
maintenance, but I was also doing this while actively losing weight on
Atkins. Are you saying that you haven't noticed any benefit in this manner
while on Atkins? I just thought that I was using fat for energy.

Pat in TX

: :> It may also have to do with intensity level - at higher intensities
: :> your body is forced to burn a higher percentage of glycogen than
: :> fat. If you're exercising at lower intensity levels, it may be
: :> possible that you've not encountered the bonk because your body is
: :> able to keep up with energy demands via fat.
:
: I think that's basically what's going on. Also, since he isn't really
: counting carbs before riding, he has some glycogen reserves before
starting.

It's true that I probably have more glycogen reserves now that I am on
maintenance, but I was also doing this while actively losing weight on
Atkins. Are you saying that you haven't noticed any benefit in this manner
while on Atkins? I just thought that I was using fat for energy.

Pat in TX

: :> It may also have to do with intensity level - at higher intensities
: :> your body is forced to burn a higher percentage of glycogen than
: :> fat. If you're exercising at lower intensity levels, it may be
: :> possible that you've not encountered the bonk because your body is
: :> able to keep up with energy demands via fat.
:
: I think that's basically what's going on. Also, since he isn't really
: counting carbs before riding, he has some glycogen reserves before
starting.

It's true that I probably have more glycogen reserves now that I am on
maintenance, but I was also doing this while actively losing weight on
Atkins. Are you saying that you haven't noticed any benefit in this manner
while on Atkins? I just thought that I was using fat for energy.

Pat in TX