cycling and HRM

"scribble" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1118428321.003972.230310
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

I have been running and just picked up cycling (I recently bought
a cyclocross). I do it for fitness. I have been using a HRM in
running. I am not quite sure how to use it properly in cycling. One
thing I did find out was I could not pump up my HR as effectively as in
running. How do you use HRMs to gauge efforts and help you? Do you
think there are books that explain it?

Most books on bicycle training use HRMs (or power meters). Take your pick.
If you want to ramp your HR up quickly, find a long hill and charge. High
heart rates on flat roads are difficult; hills do wonders for your training
and fitness.

scribble said:

Hello Group,

I have been running and just picked up cycling (I recently bought
a cyclocross). I do it for fitness. I have been using a HRM in
running. I am not quite sure how to use it properly in cycling. One
thing I did find out was I could not pump up my HR as effectively as in
running. How do you use HRMs to gauge efforts and help you? Do you
think there are books that explain it?

TIA.

James

Hi James,

I'd be very interested in the specifics of using the HRM for running. Did
you set up training zones? Did you use it to run hills? Can you effectively
run in the five zones as specified in cycling literature?

TIA,

jj

I'm looking to get a HRM also. As I understand it, I should be working
at various percentages of my max heart rate depending upon the type of
training I'm doing.

How does one find their max heart rate? The 220-age forumula doesn't
seem to be recognized as being accurate. Is it just a matter of
finding a hill and going until you puke?

Quoted message said:

I'm looking to get a HRM also. As I understand it, I should be working
at various percentages of my max heart rate depending upon the type of
training I'm doing.

How does one find their max heart rate? The 220-age forumula doesn't
seem to be recognized as being accurate. Is it just a matter of
finding a hill and going until you puke?

Pretty much. Your heart will "MAX" out at a certain point and won't go
any higher. Training can increase this max. Unlike a car if your heart
hits the red line you won't explode. Do a google search for max heart
rate, there are some good sites out there, bad ones too so watch out.

Hi,

I read one or two books on that subject. Basically you need to work in
different zones
with the help of a HRM. But I do not strictly follow a training
regimen.

I just went to the bookstore. Edmund Burke's
cycling books might be a good start.

James

scribble said:

Hi,

I read one or two books on that subject. Basically you need to work in
different zones with the help of a HRM. But I do not strictly follow a training
regimen.

What is your HRmax when you are running?

jj

Quoted message said:

I just went to the bookstore. Edmund Burke's cycling books might be a good start.

James

Ken said:

"scribble" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1118428321.003972.230310
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

I have been running and just picked up cycling (I recently bought
a cyclocross). I do it for fitness. I have been using a HRM in
running. I am not quite sure how to use it properly in cycling. One
thing I did find out was I could not pump up my HR as effectively as in
running. How do you use HRMs to gauge efforts and help you? Do you
think there are books that explain it?

Most books on bicycle training use HRMs (or power meters). Take your pick.
If you want to ramp your HR up quickly, find a long hill and charge. High
heart rates on flat roads are difficult; hills do wonders for your training
and fitness.

if all you have is flats, then push a bigger gear (mind the knees). Or
ride into the wind. Sprinting can also push your HR high, but it is
tough to maintain that high HR for long - if can find small hills and do
repeats or push a slightly bigger gear.

scribble said:

Hello Group,

I have been running and just picked up cycling (I recently bought
a cyclocross). I do it for fitness. I have been using a HRM in
running. I am not quite sure how to use it properly in cycling. One
thing I did find out was I could not pump up my HR as effectively as in
running. How do you use HRMs to gauge efforts and help you? Do you
think there are books that explain it?

TIA.

James

From my experience the fastest way to get up to maximum heart rate for
me is to do about 4 wind sprints of about 100 yards each as if I was
doing 4 consecutive 100 yard races. I max out at a little over 180 and I
am 56.6 years old. I can't get that high on the bike no matter how hard
I try since the legs just give out and cry in pain to stop pedaling, and
I have been riding pretty seriously for about 5 years now to stay in
shape. The 220 - age is just a rough formula so I wouldn't put too much
faith in it or I should have dropped when I hit 180+. Just to add a bit
of my rather dry humor, try sprinting uphill until you can barely even
stay standing if you can find a hill steep enough and long enough, then
check your heart rate. That should put you at your very utmost top rate.
Bill Baka

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking to get a HRM also. As I understand it, I should be working
at various percentages of my max heart rate depending upon the type of
training I'm doing.

How does one find their max heart rate? The 220-age forumula doesn't
seem to be recognized as being accurate. Is it just a matter of
finding a hill and going until you puke?

You don't have to puke but you have to get to the point where your legs are
weakening and you're panting strongly. Then try your hardest to increase
your speed. When you can't, that should be about the point of max hr.
Depending on how good shape you are in, you might need a pretty long and or
steep hill. Make sure you are fully warmed up first. I'm 53 and can still
get my HR up to 190.

"scribble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello Group,

I have been running and just picked up cycling (I recently bought
a cyclocross). I do it for fitness. I have been using a HRM in
running. I am not quite sure how to use it properly in cycling. One
thing I did find out was I could not pump up my HR as effectively as in
running. How do you use HRMs to gauge efforts and help you? Do you
think there are books that explain it?

TIA.

James

My experience is quite limited, but, here it is. I use the Timex Bodylink
system:
http://www.schlatter.org/Dad/bodylink.htm
-- typical HRM with a strap around the chest
-- GPS receiver that straps onto your biceps or clips into your waistband
-- the HRM and GPS transmit data to the watch, which can be set to show
heart rate, pace, distance, speed, etc., etc.

I recently stopped running (I'm over 60 and have been running since 1976,
including several marathons) and started biking. The first thing I noticed
is that my heart rate does not get into the training range because the bike
is doing most of the work. When I was running, my heart ran normally was
135 - 145, depending on how fast I was going and if I was climbing a hill.

The idea of the heart rate monitor is the same regardless of the activity --
calculate your maximum heart rate (220 - age) then you need to get your
heart rate up to 75 - 80 percent of that and hold it there for 20 - 30
minutes for the "training effect" to improve your cardio health.

I moved from the hills of East Tennessee to the Mississippi Gulf Coast where
there are no hills, so, I am biking on the flat. My heart rate gets up to
75 - 80, which is not in the training range. I am now somewhat concerned
about what happens to my cardio health -- I have been pushing my heart rate
to 135 - 145 for an hour or so five days a week for 30 years and now I'm
back to 75 - 80 -- no doubt my cardio system will deteriorate a bit but I
suspect I'll still be in very good shape.

Just my thoughts -- nothing scientific behind it.

---
Joe S.

That's a wealth of information. Thanks a lot.

James

Joe S. said:

"scribble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello Group,

I have been running and just picked up cycling (I recently bought
a cyclocross). I do it for fitness. I have been using a HRM in
running. I am not quite sure how to use it properly in cycling. One
thing I did find out was I could not pump up my HR as effectively as in
running. How do you use HRMs to gauge efforts and help you? Do you
think there are books that explain it?

TIA.

James

My experience is quite limited, but, here it is. I use the Timex Bodylink
system:
http://www.schlatter.org/Dad/bodylink.htm
-- typical HRM with a strap around the chest
-- GPS receiver that straps onto your biceps or clips into your waistband
-- the HRM and GPS transmit data to the watch, which can be set to show
heart rate, pace, distance, speed, etc., etc.

I recently stopped running (I'm over 60 and have been running since 1976,
including several marathons) and started biking. The first thing I noticed
is that my heart rate does not get into the training range because the bike
is doing most of the work. When I was running, my heart ran normally was
135 - 145, depending on how fast I was going and if I was climbing a hill.

The idea of the heart rate monitor is the same regardless of the activity --
calculate your maximum heart rate (220 - age) then you need to get your
heart rate up to 75 - 80 percent of that and hold it there for 20 - 30
minutes for the "training effect" to improve your cardio health.

I moved from the hills of East Tennessee to the Mississippi Gulf Coast where
there are no hills, so, I am biking on the flat. My heart rate gets up to
75 - 80, which is not in the training range. I am now somewhat concerned
about what happens to my cardio health -- I have been pushing my heart rate
to 135 - 145 for an hour or so five days a week for 30 years and now I'm
back to 75 - 80 -- no doubt my cardio system will deteriorate a bit but I
suspect I'll still be in very good shape.

Just my thoughts -- nothing scientific behind it.

---
Joe S.

Joe S. said:

My experience is quite limited, but, here it is. I use the Timex Bodylink
system:
http://www.schlatter.org/Dad/bodylink.htm
-- typical HRM with a strap around the chest
-- GPS receiver that straps onto your biceps or clips into your waistband
-- the HRM and GPS transmit data to the watch, which can be set to show
heart rate, pace, distance, speed, etc., etc.

I recently stopped running (I'm over 60 and have been running since 1976,
including several marathons) and started biking. The first thing I noticed
is that my heart rate does not get into the training range because the bike
is doing most of the work. When I was running, my heart ran normally was
135 - 145, depending on how fast I was going and if I was climbing a hill.

The idea of the heart rate monitor is the same regardless of the activity --
calculate your maximum heart rate (220 - age) then you need to get your
heart rate up to 75 - 80 percent of that and hold it there for 20 - 30
minutes for the "training effect" to improve your cardio health.

I moved from the hills of East Tennessee to the Mississippi Gulf Coast where
there are no hills, so, I am biking on the flat. My heart rate gets up to
75 - 80, which is not in the training range. I am now somewhat concerned
about what happens to my cardio health -- I have been pushing my heart rate
to 135 - 145 for an hour or so five days a week for 30 years and now I'm
back to 75 - 80 -- no doubt my cardio system will deteriorate a bit but I
suspect I'll still be in very good shape.

Just my thoughts -- nothing scientific behind it.

---
Joe S.

Joe, great info.

A couple questions:

What is your resting heart rate?

What speed are you riding your bike at? If your HR is only getting up to
75-80, can you not ride a little faster?

Thanks for the great post.

jj

"jj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Joe S. said:

My experience is quite limited, but, here it is. I use the Timex

Bodylink

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

system:
http://www.schlatter.org/Dad/bodylink.htm
-- typical HRM with a strap around the chest
-- GPS receiver that straps onto your biceps or clips into your waistband
-- the HRM and GPS transmit data to the watch, which can be set to show
heart rate, pace, distance, speed, etc., etc.

I recently stopped running (I'm over 60 and have been running since 1976,
including several marathons) and started biking. The first thing I

noticed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is that my heart rate does not get into the training range because the

bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is doing most of the work. When I was running, my heart ran normally was
135 - 145, depending on how fast I was going and if I was climbing a

hill.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The idea of the heart rate monitor is the same regardless of the

activity --

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

calculate your maximum heart rate (220 - age) then you need to get your
heart rate up to 75 - 80 percent of that and hold it there for 20 - 30
minutes for the "training effect" to improve your cardio health.

I moved from the hills of East Tennessee to the Mississippi Gulf Coast

where

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there are no hills, so, I am biking on the flat. My heart rate gets up

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

75 - 80, which is not in the training range. I am now somewhat

concerned

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

about what happens to my cardio health -- I have been pushing my heart

rate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to 135 - 145 for an hour or so five days a week for 30 years and now I'm
back to 75 - 80 -- no doubt my cardio system will deteriorate a bit but I
suspect I'll still be in very good shape.

Just my thoughts -- nothing scientific behind it.

---
Joe S.

Joe, great info.

A couple questions:

What is your resting heart rate?

What speed are you riding your bike at? If your HR is only getting up to
75-80, can you not ride a little faster?

Thanks for the great post.

jj

jj:

My resting heart rate is 43 - 46. I measure three times a week immediately
after I wake up -- I lie in bed, watch the clock and time one minute while
taking my pulse.

My fastest cycling speed is 13-14 MPH -- the Bodylink system has a function
that will display speed.

I bought my bike ten days ago and am still trying to figure out how to put
some stress on my cardio system -- it became clear quickly that the bike is
doing most of the work!! And, because the terrain around here is flat as
flat can be, riding uphill is not an option. I am concentrating now on
staying in the higher gears while watching my heart rate, trying to get it
as high as I can.

--

-----
Joe S.

"Joe S." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"jj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Joe S. said:

My experience is quite limited, but, here it is. I use the Timex

Bodylink

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

system:
http://www.schlatter.org/Dad/bodylink.htm
-- typical HRM with a strap around the chest
-- GPS receiver that straps onto your biceps or clips into your

waistband

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

-- the HRM and GPS transmit data to the watch, which can be set to show
heart rate, pace, distance, speed, etc., etc.

I recently stopped running (I'm over 60 and have been running since

1976,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

including several marathons) and started biking. The first thing I

noticed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is that my heart rate does not get into the training range because the

bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is doing most of the work. When I was running, my heart ran normally

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

135 - 145, depending on how fast I was going and if I was climbing a

hill.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The idea of the heart rate monitor is the same regardless of the

activity --

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

calculate your maximum heart rate (220 - age) then you need to get your
heart rate up to 75 - 80 percent of that and hold it there for 20 - 30
minutes for the "training effect" to improve your cardio health.

I moved from the hills of East Tennessee to the Mississippi Gulf Coast

where

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there are no hills, so, I am biking on the flat. My heart rate gets up

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

75 - 80, which is not in the training range. I am now somewhat

concerned

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

about what happens to my cardio health -- I have been pushing my heart

rate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to 135 - 145 for an hour or so five days a week for 30 years and now

I'm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

back to 75 - 80 -- no doubt my cardio system will deteriorate a bit but

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

suspect I'll still be in very good shape.

Just my thoughts -- nothing scientific behind it.

---
Joe S.

Joe, great info.

A couple questions:

What is your resting heart rate?

What speed are you riding your bike at? If your HR is only getting up to
75-80, can you not ride a little faster?

Thanks for the great post.

jj

jj:

My resting heart rate is 43 - 46. I measure three times a week

immediately

Quoted message said:

after I wake up -- I lie in bed, watch the clock and time one minute while
taking my pulse.

My fastest cycling speed is 13-14 MPH -- the Bodylink system has a

function

Quoted message said:

that will display speed.

I bought my bike ten days ago and am still trying to figure out how to put
some stress on my cardio system -- it became clear quickly that the bike

is

Quoted message said:

doing most of the work!! And, because the terrain around here is flat as
flat can be, riding uphill is not an option. I am concentrating now on
staying in the higher gears while watching my heart rate, trying to get it
as high as I can.

--

-----
Joe S.

To follow up the preceding post -- after posting the above, I went for a
ride -- 10 miles. I kept the bike in the highest gears and tried to
maintain highest speed I felt safe with. Speed stayed between 15 and 18 MPH
and I could tell by the strain in my quads that I was working. My heart
rate got up to 115 at one point but stayed around 107 - 110 for most of the
ride -- this rate is in the 65 - 70 percent of max, which is a decent
training rate, though nowhere near as good as the rate I was getting by
running at a heart rate of 135 - 145.

However, I am 60 and after running for 30 years, I am getting concerned
about the pounding on my knees and hips -- so -- I am willing to accept a
little less cardio training in exchange for avoiding joint problems later.

"Joe S." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

To follow up the preceding post -- after posting the above, I went for a
ride -- 10 miles. I kept the bike in the highest gears and tried to
maintain highest speed I felt safe with. Speed stayed between 15 and 18

MPH

I think this may be part of the problem i.e. you don't feel safe at speeds
higher than 18. On a flat course, 15-18 mph will not get a conditioned
athlete to a very high HR. You really need to be doing over 20 in the
absence of a headwind. As you cycle more, I suspect you'll become more
comfortable with higher speeds.

Quoted message said:

and I could tell by the strain in my quads that I was working. My heart
rate got up to 115 at one point but stayed around 107 - 110 for most of

the

Quoted message said:

ride -- this rate is in the 65 - 70 percent of max, which is a decent
training rate, though nowhere near as good as the rate I was getting by
running at a heart rate of 135 - 145.

However, I am 60 and after running for 30 years, I am getting concerned
about the pounding on my knees and hips -- so -- I am willing to accept a
little less cardio training in exchange for avoiding joint problems later.

Just be careful about using the high gears at relatively slow speeds - you
can hurt your knees that way. Your cadence should be around 80-90 RPM no
matter what the gear unless ascending a steep hill or for brief sprints.

Joe S. said:

Quoted message said:

-----
Joe S.

To follow up the preceding post -- after posting the above, I went for a
ride -- 10 miles. I kept the bike in the highest gears and tried to
maintain highest speed I felt safe with. Speed stayed between 15 and 18 MPH
and I could tell by the strain in my quads that I was working. My heart
rate got up to 115 at one point but stayed around 107 - 110 for most of the
ride -- this rate is in the 65 - 70 percent of max, which is a decent
training rate, though nowhere near as good as the rate I was getting by
running at a heart rate of 135 - 145.

However, I am 60 and after running for 30 years, I am getting concerned
about the pounding on my knees and hips -- so -- I am willing to accept a
little less cardio training in exchange for avoiding joint problems later.

Hi again, Joe,

As long as you are properly fit on your bike, you should not experience any
'pounding' on your knees and hips. Remember biking is not an 'impact'
exercise.

Can you count the number of rpms you are doing now? (hint: count number of
times your foot goes around for 15 seconds and multiply by 4).

Stick with your easier pace, but gradually try to ride longer, and spin
your legs around faster - this will prevent undue stress to your hips and
knees - as long as your 'fit' on the bike is correct. The key word is
'gradually'.

Can you remind me of the kind of bike you're riding? Perhaps you can find a
picture of it on the 'Net and post the link? Here's the bike I'm riding:

http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/Road/Performance_Road/Alpha_Aluminum/1000/Overview.php#

(Click on the color at the bottom - I have the Black Chrome/Smooth Silver)

Read up on cycling. A good book might be 'Cycling past 50':

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0880117370/

Another good book that I'm going to be getting is:

The Complete Book of Long-Distance Cycling by Edmund R. Burke:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1579541992/

The best advice I can give you is to proceed slowly. Though it's good to
test yourself and see how 'fast' and 'hard' you can ride, I would suggest
returning to riding at your previous speed but ride a little farther each
week. Keep an eye on your HRM, and record your numbers on a spreadsheet
like Excel, including your range of speeds, your distance, and your resting
pulse, and your max pulse, but let your body increase your speed naturally.

Think in terms of what you'd tell a person with good fitness in another
sport who wanted to get into running. ;-)

You'd probably say (among other things):
Get good gear, and good fit. (shoes; orthotics)
Be consistent - run daily
Don't get injured
Increase gradually!!
Read up on the technical aspects of running
Invest in a monitor (HRM) (and for cycling a handlebar mounted computer)
Record your progress on a spreadsheet.
Eventually (say in year 2) schedule an 'event', like a fun run to have
something to train for.
....and so on. ;-)

HTH,

jj

Joe S. said:

Quoted message said:

I bought my bike ten days ago and am still trying to figure out how to put
some stress on my cardio system -- it became clear quickly that the bike

is

Quoted message said:

doing most of the work!! And, because the terrain around here is flat as
flat can be, riding uphill is not an option. I am concentrating now on
staying in the higher gears while watching my heart rate, trying to get it
as high as I can.

To follow up the preceding post -- after posting the above, I went for a
ride -- 10 miles. I kept the bike in the highest gears and tried to
maintain highest speed I felt safe with. Speed stayed between 15 and 18 MPH
and I could tell by the strain in my quads that I was working. My heart
rate got up to 115 at one point but stayed around 107 - 110 for most of the
ride -- this rate is in the 65 - 70 percent of max, which is a decent
training rate, though nowhere near as good as the rate I was getting by
running at a heart rate of 135 - 145.

Relax and keep riding.

I suspect you'll find your HR goes up as your speed goes up. Right now,
after 10 days, you're limiting yourself to less than 20 mph, mostly
because that's really fast compared to your running speed. Keep riding,
don't push it too much but do enjoy it, and your maximum comfort speed
should start inching up. I'm guessing that your HR will get back up
where you've been training somewhere in the mid 20's on the flats.

Just for reference, my daughters got me back on a bike about seven years
ago. On that mountain bike, I found I had to ride 12 mph to beat the
mosquitos, and 15 was fast. Fast forward a few years, and 15 is a
comfortable cruising speed for me, and I go twice that coming home from
work (down a hill!) almost daily. No big deal; I just got comfortable
going faster a little bit at a time (plus I got a faster bike!).

Quoted message said:

However, I am 60 and after running for 30 years, I am getting concerned
about the pounding on my knees and hips -- so -- I am willing to accept a
little less cardio training in exchange for avoiding joint problems later.

Is it necessary for you to quit running cold turkey? I'm thinking you
might run 2-3 times a week to maintain your fitness over the next few
months, while you work your cycling speed up.

Pat
--
Return address works as is.

Roger Zoul said:

Quoted message said:

I've never heard that training can increase your max heart rate! Where'd

you read that? Your max heart rate is your max heart rate. Training will
make it able to do more work at a given heart rate. As you train harder and
harder (at greater % of your max), you'll be able to do more at lower rates,
which is a good thing.

I think that within normal ranges I'd agree with Roger. Taking aside
pro level riders I wonder what difference max hr makes. As I am part of
and ride with others of the geriatric set I have lots of friends who
are on meds that suppress hr. One in particular really can't get his hr
much over 140. But he is a very strong rider and climber and he does it
at hr's of 125 when I'm at 155. So, my conclusion is that at least at
our level of riding max hr isn't all that relevant.

SlowRider said:

Quoted message said:

I've noticed this when I substitute swimming for cycling -- I work my

a** off doing laps, but I barely manage to get my HR over 120. As it
was explained to me, I've got one set of muscles with ~10 years of
conditioning, and a heart to match. When I use swimming muscles (with
virtually no conditioning) they're not strong enough to demand much O2
from my heart, so even if the effort seems hard, my heart isn't doing
much.

I agree with your observation but not the cause. Different activites
yield different hear rates even for athletes that are well trained in
both activities. For example running will yield a higher rate than
cycling. I'm not sure where swimming fits in the pecking order.

I think that x country skiers routinely achieve hr's well above runners.