Cycle to Work Initiative

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:43:06 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be "Lab BT"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Following an article in Sundays Observer about a scheme whwere you can buy
(or at least lease) a tax free (income tax and VAT) bike, does anybody have
any experience of the employer lease scheme. Information of DTI site seems
sparse at best. Is there a max. purchase price (£500 for computers in a
similar scheme)? Do you have to use a specific supplier, and if so does
anybody know of a supplies who is a Dawes agent?

Like most government schemes it appears tailored towards
government's cronies in big business. However, there are
alternatives like http://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/ which might be worth
investigating.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Lab BT said:

Following an article in Sundays Observer about a scheme whwere you can buy
(or at least lease) a tax free (income tax and VAT) bike, does anybody have
any experience of the employer lease scheme. Information of DTI site seems
sparse at best. Is there a max. purchase price (£500 for computers in a
similar scheme)? Do you have to use a specific supplier, and if so does
anybody know of a supplies who is a Dawes agent?

Regards

John

There are some details here. AFAIK there is no maximum limit on the
value of the bicycle.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/ir176.htm

Lab BT said:

Following an article in Sundays Observer about a scheme whwere you can buy
(or at least lease) a tax free (income tax and VAT) bike, does anybody have
any experience of the employer lease scheme. Information of DTI site seems
sparse at best. Is there a max. purchase price (£500 for computers in a
similar scheme)? Do you have to use a specific supplier, and if so does
anybody know of a supplies who is a Dawes agent?

Regards

John

Try www.booost.uk.com. That seems to explain most of it. I have been told by our
Human Remains Department that the computation requires a good knowledge of tax
systems and would not be easy for a small employer to operate directly, however
the BOOOST group have produced some sort of package to try and make it easier
for the smaller businesses.

I work as a technician in a school so the link has been sent up to County
Council level to see what they can make of it.

--
Terry Duckmanton.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/terry.duckmanton
A website mostly dedicated to cycling

"Lab BT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Following an article in Sundays Observer about a scheme whwere you can buy
(or at least lease) a tax free (income tax and VAT) bike, does anybody

have

Quoted message said:

any experience of the employer lease scheme. Information of DTI site seems
sparse at best. Is there a max. purchase price (£500 for computers in a
similar scheme)? Do you have to use a specific supplier, and if so does
anybody know of a supplies who is a Dawes agent?

Regards

John

London Cycling Campaign article here.
http://www.lcc.org.uk/Documents/Take%20advantage%20of%20your%20tax.pdf?DocID=64

Paul.

Vincent Wilcox said:

There are some details here. AFAIK there is no maximum limit on the
value of the bicycle.

I'm self employed and work from home. Do you think Mr. Revenue would
mind if I claimed back the cost of that new Cannondale road bike I've
been lusting over for the last 3 months...? ;-)

--
jc

"Jeremy Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:op.sr0jmoix4al0tm@office...

Quoted message said:

Vincent Wilcox said:

There are some details here. AFAIK there is no maximum limit on the
value of the bicycle.

I'm self employed and work from home. Do you think Mr. Revenue would
mind if I claimed back the cost of that new Cannondale road bike I've
been lusting over for the last 3 months...? ;-)

Would you do business miles on it? Vernon and I have been known to use our
bikes to visit clients locally instead of taking the car.

Cheers, helen s

Terry D said:

Lab BT said:

Following an article in Sundays Observer about <snip questions about bike tax breaks>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Try www.booost.uk.com. That seems to explain most of it. I have been told by our
Human Remains Department that the computation requires a good knowledge of tax
systems and would not be easy for a small employer to operate directly, however
the BOOOST group have produced some sort of package to try and make it easier
for the smaller businesses.

My employer (big four accountant) said that they were not introducing
the scheme when they introduced the HCI one because the regulations
surrounding the final value of the bike at the end of the lease were to
unclear. I have yet to chase them up on whether the changes inthe last
budget have clarified the situation enough. AIUI the only requirement
is that he bike be mainly used for commuting to work although I am
aware of no mechanism for measuring this. You will need to purchase
the bike at the end of the lease though the sum should be fairly
nominal. It /ought/ to be possible to order any bike from anywhere
although individual implementatios may make this easier or harder in
practice.

best wishes
james

Quoted message said:

AIUI the only requirement
is that he bike be mainly used for commuting to work although I am
aware of no mechanism for measuring this.

Lets apply a bit of logic here. Some of us have an altogether different
business need. In my case a folder, so that when I go to conferences
and such I'm not tied to a horrendously overpriced conference hotel,
but can stay somewhere more reasonable.

The conference hotel for XTech (www.xtech.org) was stupidly expensive
and according to reports on tripadvisor.com, pretty shabby too.
Of course I stayed in another hotel a couple of km away and less than
half the price. What better business use for a bike could you ask for?
And, erm, having a perfectly good full-size bike, why on earth would
I want a folder for non-business purposes?

--
Nick Kew

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 20:07:52 +0100, wafflycat

waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk said:

"Jeremy Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:op.sr0jmoix4al0tm@office...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm self employed and work from home. Do you think Mr. Revenue would
mind if I claimed back the cost of that new Cannondale road bike I've
been lusting over for the last 3 months...? ;-)

Would you do business miles on it?

Actually, yes...

--
jc

Nick Kew said:

Quoted message said:

AIUI the only requirement
is that he bike be mainly used for commuting to work although I am
aware of no mechanism for measuring this.

Lets apply a bit of logic here. Some of us have an altogether different
business need. In my case a folder, so that when I go to conferences
and such I'm not tied to a horrendously overpriced conference hotel,
but can stay somewhere more reasonable.

But this is bike as business expense. The scheme under discussion is a
special tax break to stimulate bike use which is a different thing

best wishes
james

Quoted message said:

Nick Kew said:

Quoted message said:

AIUI the only requirement
is that he bike be mainly used for commuting to work although I am
aware of no mechanism for measuring this.

Lets apply a bit of logic here. Some of us have an altogether different
business need. In my case a folder, so that when I go to conferences
and such I'm not tied to a horrendously overpriced conference hotel,
but can stay somewhere more reasonable.

But this is bike as business expense. The scheme under discussion is a
special tax break to stimulate bike use which is a different thing

My understanding is that there are parallel routes to making the bike a
qualifying purchase: *either* the actual bike must be predominantly
used for business purposes (including commuting), *or* the user must
predominantly commute by bike.

So, Nick can justify the folder if it will be used at conferences and
sit in the garage the rest of the time while he commutes by car; if it
will be used at conferences, for leisure and for commuting; if it will
be used at conferences and for leisure while he commutes on another
bike.

Hmm.

Actually checking the Revenue's website suggests that I'm wrong (no
real surprise there) -
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM21664.htm says:

"the employees must use the bicycle or equipment mainly for qualifying
journeys. ...

Employees are not expected to keep detailed records of time spent
cycling or miles travelled for the purpose of this 'main use' test.
Accept that the test is satisfied unless there is clear evidence to
suggest that less than half of the use of the bicycle or equipment is
on qualifying journeys. If it is clear that there is substantial use of
the bicycle for qualifying journeys, do not make special enquiries
about the extent of any other use."

So in practical terms, Nick can get the folder under the scheme, and as
long as he is (a) seen to be using it for business purposes and (b) not
flaunting leisure use there'll be no problems

John

Terry D said:

Try www.booost.uk.com. That seems to explain most of it. I have been
told by our Human Remains Department that the computation requires a
good knowledge of tax systems and would not be easy for a small employer
to operate directly, however the BOOOST group have produced some sort of
package to try and make it easier for the smaller businesses.

We have asked our employer, a number of times, to consider this scheme and
each time they have a different excuse. If the admin required is more than
zero then companies will tend to have other things on their mind.

Terry D <[email hidden]> wrote:

: perhaps in a few months". I can't understand why employers are so reluctant
: to try something that would at least reduce the size of the company car
: parking problem which, in the school where I work, is a significant one.

All attempts to get my work (University of York) to consider either this
scheme or the similar one for computers have failed as well.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

Rudi Lutz said:

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Terry D <[email hidden]> wrote:

: perhaps in a few months". I can't understand why employers are so
reluctant
: to try something that would at least reduce the size of the company car
: parking problem which, in the school where I work, is a significant one.

All attempts to get my work (University of York) to consider either this
scheme or the similar one for computers have failed as well.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

And mine (University of Sussex)

Rudi

I've told a friend about this scheme and I think she'll ask her employer
(a major national high street shop chain) because it would really make a
difference for her. If she gets the nod, and I'm not holding I'll my
breath, I'll report back.

--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

wafflycat said:

"Terry D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I sent the above link to Surrey County Council (my employer) and asked if
they would consider operating the scheme. The reply was basically "Not
now,
perhaps in a few months". I can't understand why employers are so
reluctant
to try something that would at least reduce the size of the company car
parking problem which, in the school where I work, is a significant one.

Terry Duckmanton.

Oh that's fairly easy. HR departments exist for one purpose only - to
look after the interests of those in the HR department. I am only
half-joking with this comment, Vernon is a chartered member of the CIPD
and he is often exasperated by what he sees going on in HR. Plus,
remember that there are likely to be those in the HR department who have
a company car who actually really don't need a company car and the
thought of possibly having to give it up in favour of a company bicycle
will fill them with dread. Much better to strangle such schemes at birth...

Cheers, helen s

Being a school, our Human Remains Department consists of one person. It was she
who suggested that I should pass this information 'upstairs' to the Staff
Benefits Team at County. These are the people who select and organise the perks
that all county council employees are entitled to. I am sure you know the sort
of thing; Half price health schemes, Cut price gym membership, Discount card for
local wine shop (to make sure you need health scheme and gym membership) and so on.

It is the reply from the Benefits Team that is referred to above. You'd have
thought that a County Council would be fairly clued up about the gubbymint's
'Green Transport Plan' and would be keen to be seen doing something about making
it work. Perhaps it's all politics or summink?

--
Terry Duckmanton.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/terry.duckmanton
A website mostly dedicated to cycling

wafflycat said:

HR departments exist for one purpose only - to
look after the interests of those in the HR department. I am only
half-joking with this comment, Vernon is a chartered member of the CIPD
and he is often exasperated by what he sees going on in HR.

I've got a /slightly/ different view, from about 15 years ago when
working for a very big oil/gas company.

Some of us engineers from up North had been allowed into the big
prestigious London HQ building (some mistake, obviously). Anyway, we
happened to get into conversation with a chap in a suit who confided
that he was actually something high up in our very own HR department.
The talk turned to some HR issues in our outpost, but the chap became
irritable, and then simply indignant, before spluttering,
"You people just don't understand. HR is not here for your benefit. It's
a tool of higher management!"
Well, that showed us.

--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

Arthur Clune said:

Terry D <[email hidden]> wrote:

: perhaps in a few months". I can't understand why employers are so reluctant
: to try something that would at least reduce the size of the company car
: parking problem which, in the school where I work, is a significant one.

All attempts to get my work (University of York) to consider either this
scheme or the similar one for computers have failed as well.

Allegedly we have the computer scheme here in Dundee (either now or
Real Soon Now. The response of the Accounting Trolls when told that the
bike scheme was the same (essentially) as the computer scheme was
extremely positive (allegedly, heard second hand from someone who had
spoken to the junior troll).

I'll let you know if we do get it implemented. The Uni are very
pro-cycling at present.

...d

Arthur Clune said:

Terry D <[email hidden]> wrote:

: perhaps in a few months". I can't understand why employers are so reluctant
: to try something that would at least reduce the size of the company car
: parking problem which, in the school where I work, is a significant one.

All attempts to get my work (University of York) to consider either this
scheme or the similar one for computers have failed as well.

Arthur

Arthur, you forget it's not an advantage to the admin staff, they would
have to administer it as well as micro-manage departments/schools and
the like, lets face it the school boy debating societies (academic
commitees) can't organise a [censored]-up in a brewery half the time.
Where I work a number of us cycle, academics, admin, techs, the whole
range, but most of the bike securing points (sheffield loops) are taken
by the school kids from Cantell (formerly Glenayre) and if you want to
pay the extra the compound cages are usually full too!
I'd love to cycle in, 15 miles each way however is beyond my personal
range for commuting, the new trains are hopeless for cyclists too, so
like many, inc several who did ride/train/ride, I drive :-(
Though few company CARS exist as such, vans, estate cars used as vans
and the like maybe...
The VC even owns his porch box thing FWIT, drives like a total [censored] too,
but no doubt can claim mileage for almost everything.
Like some transport researchers who at every photo opertunity are on a
bike, the rest of the time are driven in exec cars as they don't have
driving licences (think Scottish unis) its a problem that most uni's
don't consider important, compared with targets set by Bliar for his
NuBritain.
We've tried to get the computer thing rolling, but with the WEEE regs
causing worries about long term issues and the fact its techs and
support staffs who would benefit, not senior admin and academics, it
really doesn't seem important to them.

N.