Cycle Map

MK said:

Ideally, i would like to see a map of the UK which shows which roads are
quiet enough for use by cyclists.

Well personally, I'd include pretty much all the ones that don't
feature the letter 'M' in that category. Also, there are a very few
that aren't 'M' but where you're not allowed to cycle.

How would you define 'quiet enough'?

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

I submit that on or about Sun, 24 Jul 2005 18:20:03 +0100, the person
known to the court as MK <[email hidden]> made a statement
(<[email hidden]> in Your Honour's
bundle) to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here know if there is a national cycle map which shows all
cycle routes in the UK?

Yes, the RAC Road Atlas of Britain works for me, but I tend to use OS
maps and other local sheets for more precise detail.

Slightly more seriously, you could buy the Sustrans book of the
National Cycle Network, but since there are probably many tens of
thousands of bits cycle routes laid down by councils of varying
degrees of Clue you'll really want up-to-date local maps for any area.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

"MK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here know if there is a national cycle map which shows all
cycle routes in the UK?

Ideally, i would like to see a map of the UK which shows which roads are
quiet enough for use by cyclists.

Mk

I find a road map exceedingly useful, as they are the cycle routes I use. I
tend to avoid 'cycle routes' like the plague if by those you mean ones that
comprise cycle paths... they are the Work of Stan. Avoid motorways, avoid
dual carriageways, look to B-roads and unclassified and you should be fine,
indeed A roads can be perfectly fine to cycle on. Local knowledge is a
useful thing to draw on where you can.

Of course, it depends what you mean by 'quiet'. Sustrans produces good maps
of national cycle routes, but NCNs vary enormously in quality of surface and
where they take you. For example, NCN 13 is a spit and a throw from me, yet
I'd never use it to go to Fakenham (where I do cycle to fairly regualrly) as
it is so diverted from A to B, you get there via X, Y and Z... plus it
comprises some shared use paths which are positively dangerous in terms of
bollards in the middle of the path.... overgrown.. narrow footpath with
white paint on it do not adequate cycle facilities make.

Cheers, helen s

wafflycat wrote:

<Snip>

Quoted message said:

Avoid motorways,

OK, I can understand avoiding Motorways....

Quoted message said:

avoid dual carriageways,

.... but dual carriageways are good. People Tin drivers get two whole
lanes to play with so there is plenty of room for overtaking. [1]

Quoted message said:

look to B-roads and unclassified and
you should be fine, indeed A roads can be perfectly fine to cycle on.
Local knowledge is a useful thing to draw on where you can.

<Snip stuff about NCN's cause they're not real roads>

Quoted message said:

Cheers, helen s

[1] So why do drivers of BMW People Tins insist on using the same bit of
road as me even when the rest of the road is empty? [2]

[2] I am probably being a bit hard on BMW drivers here, bus drivers do
it as well.

Terry Duckmanton
Rest of sig will be reinstated as soon as I can remember what it used to
say. Why do we have to keep upgrading computers?

Quoted message said:

Of course, it depends what you mean by 'quiet'. Sustrans produces good
maps of national cycle routes, but NCNs vary enormously in quality of
surface and where they take you. For example, NCN 13 is a spit and a
throw from me, yet I'd never use it to go to Fakenham (where I do cycle
to fairly regualrly) as it is so diverted from A to B, you get there via
X, Y and Z... plus it comprises some shared use paths which are
positively dangerous in terms of bollards in the middle of the path....
overgrown.. narrow footpath with white paint on it do not adequate cycle
facilities make.

Cheers, helen s

Thanks for the advice.

The reason I ask is because I hate cycling on busy roads with cars
flying past at 60mph+ every few seconds. Also, some roads can be quite
dangerous to travel on and others have very steep inclines, some parts
of the country you can't find a village shop for 20+ miles and you're
dying for a drink.

I wondered whether there was a cycle map that graded roads based on
cyclists requirements rather than a car. Perhaps mapping on Bike shops
and local shops instead of motorway services and churches.

Does anyone know if anyone has attempted something like this?

Mk

"MK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here know if there is a national cycle map which shows all
cycle routes in the UK?

Ideally, i would like to see a map of the UK which shows which roads are
quiet enough for use by cyclists.

Define quiet. Most roads are suitable for cyclists -- though some may
require greater confidence than others and some may be less pleasant than
others.

One good indicator for leisure rides is to try out the yellow and white
roads on the normal OS Landranger series in your area.

"Mk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wondered whether there was a cycle map that graded roads based on
cyclists requirements rather than a car. Perhaps mapping on Bike shops
and local shops instead of motorway services and churches.

Does anyone know if anyone has attempted something like this?

The Cheltenham Cycle map

"Mk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The reason I ask is because I hate cycling on busy roads with cars flying
past at 60mph+ every few seconds. Also, some roads can be quite dangerous
to travel on and others have very steep inclines, some parts of the
country you can't find a village shop for 20+ miles and you're dying for a
drink.

You can get that pretty much on any road; even suposedly quiet ones can get
a bunch of idiots in cars going by too fast. Point is, even though some
motorists can be and are idiots, very few are actually really out to get
you. As for inclines - it sort of depends whre you live. In many parts of
the UK, they are unavoidable and you quickly learn to take drinks with you
and keep topped up at any available whther or not you feel thirsty at the
time. Remember too the fiiter you become the less frequently you require
toppong up. When I first got back on a bike after years off one, I couldn't
cycle 5 miles into my nearest town without several stops for a drink. Thing
is, you *quickly* notice an improvement in fitness with cycling. Death
through dehydration is not a huge problem in the UK ;-)

Quoted message said:

I wondered whether there was a cycle map that graded roads based on
cyclists requirements rather than a car. Perhaps mapping on Bike shops
and local shops instead of motorway services and churches.

You may get these at local level - but not nationally - but remember roads
are graded on ordinary maps and the needs of a cyclist tie in with the needs
of a motorist - tarmac ;-)

Cheers, helen s

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know if anyone has attempted something like this?

Mk

How can you find out the few roads that are not 'M' as I had planned a route
and one of the roads when I got to it was banned for cyclists and I had to
make a big detour.
Up till then I thought that all non motorway roads were open to cyclists.
--
Regards, Kenneth.
www.kmiles.co.uk
"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 18:20:03 +0100, MK <[email hidden]> wrote:
Well personally, I'd include pretty much all the ones that don't
feature the letter 'M' in that category. Also, there are a very few
that aren't 'M' but where you're not allowed to cycle.

Just had a thought...

Goldeneye maps cover some of the UK. Certainly I find the Norfolk one
useful, as it's foldable and laminated, so very useful in the wet!

http://www.goldeneyemaps.com/

Cheers, helen s

wafflycat said:

"Mk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The reason I ask is because I hate cycling on busy roads with cars flying
past at 60mph+ every few seconds. Also, some roads can be quite dangerous
to travel on and others have very steep inclines, some parts of the
country you can't find a village shop for 20+ miles and you're dying for a
drink.

You can get that pretty much on any road; even suposedly quiet ones can get
a bunch of idiots in cars going by too fast. Point is, even though some
motorists can be and are idiots, very few are actually really out to get
you. As for inclines - it sort of depends whre you live. In many parts of
the UK, they are unavoidable and you quickly learn to take drinks with you
and keep topped up at any available whther or not you feel thirsty at the
time. Remember too the fiiter you become the less frequently you require
toppong up. When I first got back on a bike after years off one, I couldn't
cycle 5 miles into my nearest town without several stops for a drink.

Ah the advantages of living in the UK, pubs every half mile. 🙂

John Kane
KIngston ON

wafflycat said:

"Mk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The reason I ask is because I hate cycling on busy roads with cars flying
past at 60mph+ every few seconds. Also, some roads can be quite dangerous
to travel on and others have very steep inclines, some parts of the
country you can't find a village shop for 20+ miles and you're dying for a
drink.

You can get that pretty much on any road; even suposedly quiet ones can get
a bunch of idiots in cars going by too fast. Point is, even though some
motorists can be and are idiots, very few are actually really out to get
you. As for inclines - it sort of depends whre you live. In many parts of
the UK, they are unavoidable and you quickly learn to take drinks with you
and keep topped up at any available whther or not you feel thirsty at the
time. Remember too the fiiter you become the less frequently you require
toppong up. When I first got back on a bike after years off one, I couldn't
cycle 5 miles into my nearest town without several stops for a drink.

Ah the advantages of living in the UK, pubs every half mile. 🙂

John Kane
KIngston ON

"John_Kane" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ah the advantages of living in the UK, pubs every half mile. 🙂

John Kane
KIngston ON

<Father Jack>

DRINK! DRINK!!

</Father Jack>

Cheers, helen s

"John_Kane" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ah the advantages of living in the UK, pubs every half mile. 🙂

John Kane
KIngston ON

<Father Jack>

DRINK! DRINK!!

</Father Jack>

Cheers, helen s

Mk said:

I wondered whether there was a cycle map that graded roads based on
cyclists requirements rather than a car. Perhaps mapping on Bike shops
and local shops instead of motorway services and churches.

Different cyclists have very different requirements. And actually
churches make very useful landmarks for navigation.

I have a copy of the Bristol and Bath cycling map, published 6 years ago
and distributed free through bike shops. I find it next to useless,
unless I have either an OS map or the A-Z alongside it, partly because
of the colour scheme and partly because of the lack of contour lines.
It shows bike shops, which I'm not interested in, but doesn't show pubs,
cafés or toilets, which I am.

Coupled with a decent map it *can* be quite useful when trying to get
somewhere I've never been to before, because recommended cycle routes
are highlighted.

The 4 local authorities in the area that used to be called Avon
(Bristol, Bath & North East Somerset, North Somerset and South
Gloucestershire) are shortly (hopefully) due to publish a series of 4
maps, intended to be the successor to the old Bristol and Bath cycling
map. I've participated in a couple of planning meetings for the South
Gloucestershire map, which is hugely better than the old one. It was
interesting to see just how different people's requirements were, with
some wanting more information, some wanting it to be less cluttered,
some regarding certain pieces of information as essential, others
regarding the same information as useless and unnecessary.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Mk said:

I wondered whether there was a cycle map that graded roads based on
cyclists requirements rather than a car. Perhaps mapping on Bike shops
and local shops instead of motorway services and churches.

Different cyclists have very different requirements. And actually
churches make very useful landmarks for navigation.

I have a copy of the Bristol and Bath cycling map, published 6 years ago
and distributed free through bike shops. I find it next to useless,
unless I have either an OS map or the A-Z alongside it, partly because
of the colour scheme and partly because of the lack of contour lines.
It shows bike shops, which I'm not interested in, but doesn't show pubs,
cafés or toilets, which I am.

Coupled with a decent map it *can* be quite useful when trying to get
somewhere I've never been to before, because recommended cycle routes
are highlighted.

The 4 local authorities in the area that used to be called Avon
(Bristol, Bath & North East Somerset, North Somerset and South
Gloucestershire) are shortly (hopefully) due to publish a series of 4
maps, intended to be the successor to the old Bristol and Bath cycling
map. I've participated in a couple of planning meetings for the South
Gloucestershire map, which is hugely better than the old one. It was
interesting to see just how different people's requirements were, with
some wanting more information, some wanting it to be less cluttered,
some regarding certain pieces of information as essential, others
regarding the same information as useless and unnecessary.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Quoted message said:

map. I've participated in a couple of planning meetings for the South
Gloucestershire map, which is hugely better than the old one. It was
interesting to see just how different people's requirements were, with
some wanting more information, some wanting it to be less cluttered,
some regarding certain pieces of information as essential, others
regarding the same information as useless and unnecessary.

I guess everyone's needs are different and that's why a national map has
never been attempted.

I feel that cyclists needs are ignored on the current crop of maps and
it would be nice to have a UK National Cycle map, with perhaps quieter
flatter roads being shown as major cycle routes. From there you could
start to build a national cycle network rather than the car oriented
network we have today. Filling in the gaps with new cycle routes,
underpasses, direct cycle-only routes. The M1 of the cycling world could
be called C1 or something.

I was sitting down one evening and wondered why we all settle for maps
which are drawn for car drivers as they may not necessarily offer the
kind of information a cyclist wants. I didn't take the thought any
further, like why they wouldn't be useful to cyclists, I was more
wondering whether anyone had ever asked cyclists what kind of map they
would like.

My pennys worth

Mk

Quoted message said:

map. I've participated in a couple of planning meetings for the South
Gloucestershire map, which is hugely better than the old one. It was
interesting to see just how different people's requirements were, with
some wanting more information, some wanting it to be less cluttered,
some regarding certain pieces of information as essential, others
regarding the same information as useless and unnecessary.

I guess everyone's needs are different and that's why a national map has
never been attempted.

I feel that cyclists needs are ignored on the current crop of maps and
it would be nice to have a UK National Cycle map, with perhaps quieter
flatter roads being shown as major cycle routes. From there you could
start to build a national cycle network rather than the car oriented
network we have today. Filling in the gaps with new cycle routes,
underpasses, direct cycle-only routes. The M1 of the cycling world could
be called C1 or something.

I was sitting down one evening and wondered why we all settle for maps
which are drawn for car drivers as they may not necessarily offer the
kind of information a cyclist wants. I didn't take the thought any
further, like why they wouldn't be useful to cyclists, I was more
wondering whether anyone had ever asked cyclists what kind of map they
would like.

My pennys worth

Mk

"Mk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I guess everyone's needs are different and that's why a national map has
never been attempted.

I feel that cyclists needs are ignored on the current crop of maps and it
would be nice to have a UK National Cycle map, with perhaps quieter
flatter roads being shown as major cycle routes.

There's you first major problem. Much of the UK *isn't* 'flatter' and
there's a lot of it which isn't necessarily filled with 'quieter' roads, so
with those priorities, you effectively negate much of the UK form cycling
;-)

Quoted message said:

From there you could start to build a national cycle network rather than
the car oriented network we have today. Filling in the gaps with new cycle
routes, underpasses, direct cycle-only routes. The M1 of the cycling world
could be called C1 or something.

Many of our roads were built *before* the advent of the car and even on the
ones built after the introduction of the car they are perfectly suitable for
cycling on. They are the sort I cycle on almost every day, as do thousand
upon thousand of other cyclists in the UK. We have a national cycle
network - it's called the road network.

Quoted message said:

I was sitting down one evening and wondered why we all settle for maps
which are drawn for car drivers as they may not necessarily offer the kind
of information a cyclist wants. I didn't take the thought any further,
like why they wouldn't be useful to cyclists, I was more wondering whether
anyone had ever asked cyclists what kind of map they would like.

I suggest they aren't necessarily drawn up for car users - they are drawn up
for road users, many of which use a car to get from A to B. This doesn't
mean they are of no use for other road users. I use OS maps and OS based
maps to work out routes irrespective of whether I'm travelling by car, cycle
or walking. I think you'll find that many a cyclist on this newsgroup is not
enamoured of supposedly 'cycle-specific' routes, paths, etc., as they are
often the last routes an experienced cyclist will take. Why? All too often
in the UK such cycle-specific routes are not conducive to enjoyable cycling.

Cheers, helen s

Quoted message said:

My pennys worth

Mk