Cut back on training?

Personally, I wouldn't cut out intervals completely in favor of a straight traditional base program as you'll lose fitness. The body will adapt to the stresses imposed on it and if that stress is less than what you've been accustomed it will adapt downward.

Pehaps some of the "power" guys will chime in and get really technical for ya. They really like that stuff, you know. 😉

- From what month to what month can you ride outside?
- How much time did you spend doing high intensity workouts (how many hours per week?)
- When do you need to get ready for competing?
- Do you do weight lifting
- Do you do other off season activities
- What is you current motivation to perform difficult workouts? Do you feel you need a "break"?
- Typically, have you been satisfied with your level of performance in events longer than 60k?
- Do you feel you reached a "plateau" this summer? Or do you think that you kept improving throughout the summer season?
- Have you accumulated some injuries during this summer season?

These are examples of some questions that help determine a good training balance during general preparaton phase. I don't think there is one good recepe.

I agree 100% with what DM says. I think that ideally, most riders would have good benefits in performing intensity workouts during this phase. But in term of exact numbers, exact balance, that depends on some of the answer to the questions above, and maybe other questions that I forgot to ask.

Just out of curiosity, how long have you been training with power and what were your numbers when you started?

postal_bag said:

I've been looking over my training journal for the past 10 months, which is about how long I have been training "seriously". I found that I have averaged around 6.5 hrs a week in total training time, including 1-2 hrs of off the bike, upper body work for general fitness.

I am 38 years old and just got into racing this year - after buying my first road bike last autumn - mostly ~40 km criteriums and ~80 km road races, maybe some 15 km TT's. Much of my training has been focused on FT and vo2 max.
I am 6' 3", 170 lbs
MAP is 470 watts
5 x 4 @ 390 watts
2 x 20 @ 340 watts
1 hr max is 325 watts
2 hr max is 300 watts

My question is this: At this stage in life, given my current fitness level and light training volume this past season, would I really benefit from taking it easy over the winter? Do I need to do "base" training? What would be the consequences of continuing the high intensity work right through until next season? Will base help me to increase my high intensity volume or intensity, period, for next season?

Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.

SolarEnergy said:

- From what month to what month can you ride outside?
- How much time did you spend doing high intensity workouts (how many hours per week?)
- When do you need to get ready for competing?
- Do you do weight lifting
- Do you do other off season activities
- What is you current motivation to perform difficult workouts? Do you feel you need a "break"?
- Typically, have you been satisfied with your level of performance in events longer than 60k?
- Do you feel you reached a "plateau" this summer? Or do you think that you kept improving throughout the summer season?
- Have you accumulated some injuries during this summer season?

These are examples of some questions that help determine a good training balance during general preparaton phase. I don't think there is one good recepe.

I agree 100% with what DM says. I think that ideally, most riders would have good benefits in performing intensity workouts during this phase. But in term of exact numbers, exact balance, that depends on some of the answer to the questions above, and maybe other questions that I forgot to ask.

These are good questions.
-I can train outside from April to November, but most of my level 4 and 5 work is done indoors, year round.
-I have been doing 3 intense workouts per week on average ~1 hr per session
-My 1st race is likely an 80 km road race in mid April.
-I have not done weight lifting since I started training for cycling or before, except some upper body stuff.
-This is my 1st off-season. I don't really do any other activities anymore.
-My motivation is high, but it is still ~6 months until my first race.
-So far my my longest regular event is a weekly 100 km, free-for-all group ride, but I feel pretty good about my level of performance.
-I don't think I reached a plateau this summer, but I did have to take ~3 weeks off due to injuries sustained in a crash, and I did lose some fitness which I eventually regained.
-No injuries related to training.

I feel like I want to keep working on 4 min intervals and 20 min intervals all winter, but I'm worried I'll be wasting my time, so to speak.

Chipotle said:

Just out of curiosity, how long have you been training with power and what were your numbers when you started?

I just started training with power in January. Although I didn't do a MAP test until June, in a similar ramp test, in January, with 20 watt increases every minute I failed at 400 watts with 174 bpm heart rate. On my last MAP test (end of August) I failed at 480 watts with 186 bpm heart rate. In February, I was doing 3 x 10 min @ 300 to 310 watts, 2 sets of 3 x 4 min @ 350 watts, 8 min between sets.

postal_bag said:

These are good questions.
-I can train outside from April to November, but most of my level 4 and 5 work is done indoors, year round.

Why doing most of your quality workouts indoors?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I know you a bit better now. But even then, I can't pretend to have the right answer to your question. But here are a couple of consideration.

First, one can afford to loose a bit of edge during the general preparation phase. My athletes where given a month off at the end of their respective competitive phase. Those who wanted to train anyway where allowed, and I'd still write a program for them. I like to tell the athletes that during that phase, there should not be any stress. That is the most important aspect of that phase in my mind. Recovering 100% mentally, and physically.

Sometimes, if you are wandering about a change in bike position, a new approach, getting a new TT bike that kinda stuff, then it is the right time. You may try to improve some technical apect (more RPM while pushing off the saddle, doin some roller). Some cyclists here up North, like to cross country sky.

What you will do with your time is conditionned by what you like. If there is something that you can not do during the regular season, then it is the time to give it a workout/week or two.

If you don't do leg weight lifting, then 2 quality workouts per week sounds good. Could be 4 minutes intervals and 20min as you first thought. Don't be too rough with yourself. A third medium intensity workout can be interesting too, specially if you don't do any other activity. A fartlek workouts, or short intervals with a lot of rest, that kinda stuff.

The rest, belongs to you. Taking a workout or two in the gymn for upper body, abs and back muscles stuff, can be like a insurance. Third intensity workout can be a spinning session, the same day you do weight. Can be fun, meet nice girls (bouncing on the saddle at 150 RPM). I like spinning during GP phase, I never fall, even though I am not always well concentrated 😄

Ha ha. I can't believe you posted this! I have been having the same thing going around in my head for the last few weeks...To keep the intensity or drop it. But I have been thinking I might as well keep up the intensity with the assumption that the endurance miles will be lacking for weather considerations(6-8hrs is tough in the 40's). So I am going to keep doing my 2x20's and such and try to get miles outside when I can. Specifically off the top of my head I don't know what the consequences of keeping up the intensity through the winter would be but I suspect it would have something to do with traditional periodization. Sean Kelly was famously known to go year round and more recent times Erik Zabel. These guys obviously have something going for them and who knows maybe they have/would do better. So fwiw I'm going to keep going. I am going to do cx and the first rr around here is mid Feb. Cheers mike

SolarEnergy said:

Why doing most of your quality workouts indoors?

Easy. It's the best place to get a steady workout where you can compare the results between sessions. No wind. No cars. No stoplights. Except for the indoor bit it's perfect for intervals.

Doctor Morbius said:

Easy. It's the best place to get a steady workout where you can compare the results between sessions. No wind. No cars. No stoplights. Except for the indoor bit it's perfect for intervals.

Exactly. Not to mention it's less embarassing when you keel over from exaustion after 5 min @120% FT. 🙂

cadence230 said:

Ha ha. I can't believe you posted this! I have been having the same thing going around in my head for the last few weeks...To keep the intensity or drop it. But I have been thinking I might as well keep up the intensity with the assumption that the endurance miles will be lacking for weather considerations(6-8hrs is tough in the 40's). So I am going to keep doing my 2x20's and such and try to get miles outside when I can. Specifically off the top of my head I don't know what the consequences of keeping up the intensity through the winter would be but I suspect it would have something to do with traditional periodization. Sean Kelly was famously known to go year round and more recent times Erik Zabel. These guys obviously have something going for them and who knows maybe they have/would do better. So fwiw I'm going to keep going. I am going to do cx and the first rr around here is mid Feb. Cheers mike

Alright. You've helped me make up my mind. I'm going to keep going too. Might as well while I feel motivated. Since it's my first year training there's no point in trying to guess what's going to work for me. It's still got to be better than doing nothing at all. There's a quote that goes something like: "If you have a training plan, even if it is not the best plan, you will improve as long as you stick with it."
I guess that wouldn't include a steady regimen of 2 x 20's @ 50 watts. 😉

postal_bag said:

"If you have a training plan, even if it is not the best plan, you will improve as long as you stick with it."

Exactly!!! Couldn't have said it any better! 😉

SolarEnergy said:

Why doing most of your quality workouts indoors?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I know you a bit better now. But even then, I can't pretend to have the right answer to your question. But here are a couple of consideration.

First, one can afford to loose a bit of edge during the general preparation phase. My athletes where given a month off at the end of their respective competitive phase. Those who wanted to train anyway where allowed, and I'd still write a program for them. I like to tell the athletes that during that phase, there should not be any stress. That is the most important aspect of that phase in my mind. Recovering 100% mentally, and physically.

Sometimes, if you are wandering about a change in bike position, a new approach, getting a new TT bike that kinda stuff, then it is the right time. You may try to improve some technical apect (more RPM while pushing off the saddle, doin some roller). Some cyclists here up North, like to cross country sky.

What you will do with your time is conditionned by what you like. If there is something that you can not do during the regular season, then it is the time to give it a workout/week or two.

If you don't do leg weight lifting, then 2 quality workouts per week sounds good. Could be 4 minutes intervals and 20min as you first thought. Don't be too rough with yourself. A third medium intensity workout can be interesting too, specially if you don't do any other activity. A fartlek workouts, or short intervals with a lot of rest, that kinda stuff.

The rest, belongs to you. Taking a workout or two in the gymn for upper body, abs and back muscles stuff, can be like a insurance. Third intensity workout can be a spinning session, the same day you do weight. Can be fun, meet nice girls (bouncing on the saddle at 150 RPM). I like spinning during GP phase, I never fall, even though I am not always well concentrated 😄

Thanks for the advice.

postal_bag said:

Exactly. Not to mention it's less embarassing when you keel over from exaustion after 5 min @120% FT. 🙂

Yeah, but what do you guys mean by Indoors? Do you mean on an indoor track, or on a turbo trainer?

postal_bag said:

Thanks for the advice.

Well I gave you a politically correct anwser.

Now as far as I am concerned, I hate doing low intensity workouts on the trainer. So I would say that during winter, roughly 80% of my bike mileage is done at moderate to high intensity. Often, my workouts are relatively short (30 to 60 minutes, sometimes 90min). I do at least one workout longer than 1 hour per week. I wait until I can ride outside for resuming Zone2 volume (rides longer than 2 hours).

If I was in Florida, I would do things differently. And it would allow me to be quite fit by April. But here up North, I adapt the periodization, to the weather.
So when I hit the roads, early April, I need to do a volume phase before actually being competitive. So I am ready more by mid-June, early July.

I try to wait until Christmas time before taking a couple of weeks off. Before that, I cut on stress. I don't sustain too much pain, for too long. And if I don't feel like working out, for a couple of days, then I don't train. I have a wkout scheduled on thursday, some friends invite me for a beer, I choose the beer. If I get a Automn Flu, then I take 1 or 2 weeks off as well. After Christmas, I resume slowly resume phycological challenges, and progressively prefer quality workouts over beer😄 .