Current Discovery Team Leader, likely tactics???

aspecto said:

Hi, I am a newbie but have been reading some of the posts on Le Tour with great interest. Much of the talk has been regarding the Disco team. At this stage of the Tour de France I was wondering what the general opinion was from the guys here regarding who (in their opinion) would be considered the Team Leader for Discovery, and consequently the team's tactics in their Team Leader scenario at this point of Le Tour? I've been trying to work out if Hincapie would still be considered, or if it would now be likely Salvodelli or another? And whether realistically the team still has a legitimate shot at securing the Yellow Jersey?

Savo is the only hope for DC in my opinion. DC will have to put GH back in the domestique role and get Hincapie, Popo, Azevado, Marinez and Rubiera to support him to the Champs Elyse'es. DC will have to makeup minutes against Landis and Phonak and a very motivated and talented T-Mobile team.

-Good luck

Some days I wish the Paceline.com would open their own forum.

lwedge said:

Savo is the only hope for DC in my opinion. DC will have to put GH back in the domestique role and get Hincapie, Popo, Azevado, Marinez and Rubiera to support him to the Champs Elyse'es. DC will have to makeup minutes against Landis and Phonak and a very motivated and talented T-Mobile team.

-Good luck

I disagree, here are my thoughts.......
DC needs to attack.
DC doesn't need a designated GC leader. (I think the leader/dometique roll are way more critical when you have the lead and on the flats - plus what do you have Eki, Pavel and ? else for.

The team should work together tactically, but that ultimately, you let each of the four (GH, PS, YP and Ace) have some free reign. I expect Tmob and Phonak will try to control the race. Therefore, the non-attacking DC guys should be able (attmept to) to sit on their (Tmob & Phonak) wheels - for as long as they can, without protecting each other, but using the protection of the Tmob and Phonak teams. My rationale is that if you look at any of the last few years of mountain stages, the group will dwindle down as the pace is lifted, usually by the GC's team intent, and as long as they can keep pace, they are fine (i know it's been easier said than done in certain years), then they can attack if they can.

I hope we don't see any "you need to stay back and pace 'designated' rider x up the climb". It comes down to a ride of attrition and then attacking if you have the legs.

For tomorrow, I predict Savo try to attack and use his descending skills to gap any chasers - although the last mtn top is very far from the finish, it may be a good start.

I also think we will see Mayo (EE) and Simoni (SD) start to make an impression.

tcklyde said:

Some days I wish the Paceline.com would open their own forum.

So you wouldn't be forced, obligated, compelled, to participate in this topic of discussion? 🙂
OR, you're a huge Disco fan and lament the lack respect around here for the mighty blue train!!! 🙄

My assessment, from results so far, is that there's just not enough data to judge the prospects for the current top group of disco riders. Who, if any, had a "bad day" at the TT. Who's got climbing legs? From where I sit I just can't tell. I think the Pyrenees will clear these things up. The team is so far down in the hole already that they must take the risk of NOT designating a team leader just yet.

I think the team is a long, long shot for yellow.
...

With Armstrong gone Disco should have used the same strategy most other teams use: Designate one or two riders as G.C. hopefuls and give the other riders free reign to go for stage wins.

Deciding half the team should be protected for a possible win in Paris was delusional.

cPritch67 said:

I disagree, here are my thoughts.......
DC needs to attack.
DC doesn't need a designated GC leader. (I think the leader/dometique roll are way more critical when you have the lead and on the flats - plus what do you have Eki, Pavel and ? else for.

The team should work together tactically, but that ultimately, you let each of the four (GH, PS, YP and Ace) have some free reign. I expect Tmob and Phonak will try to control the race. Therefore, the non-attacking DC guys should be able (attmept to) to sit on their (Tmob & Phonak) wheels - for as long as they can, without protecting each other, but using the protection of the Tmob and Phonak teams. My rationale is that if you look at any of the last few years of mountain stages, the group will dwindle down as the pace is lifted, usually by the GC's team intent, and as long as they can keep pace, they are fine (i know it's been easier said than done in certain years), then they can attack if they can.

I hope we don't see any "you need to stay back and pace 'designated' rider x up the climb". It comes down to a ride of attrition and then attacking if you have the legs.

For tomorrow, I predict Savo try to attack and use his descending skills to gap any chasers - although the last mtn top is very far from the finish, it may be a good start.

I also think we will see Mayo (EE) and Simoni (SD) start to make an impression.

Actually I think Savo should wait one stage for the finish in Spain. The Portillion if I recall right is a fairly techincal descent, then the final climb, the Pla-de-Beret, is an average gradient of approx. 5.5% which is much more suited for Savodelli, since he doesn't like the higher pitched climbs. Possibly put a Ekimov or Chechu in the early break, so if Savo can hook up with the break at the bottom of the descent, then send the domestique to the front of the break and power it on the flats (SThis is why I saw Eki or Chechu) and the base of the climb with Savo slipstreaming then launching a vicious attack at the bottom. Thtactic was what was used by Liberty Seguros in last years Vuelta to allow Heras to gain the advantage by on Menchov.

And if a group, catches Savo with another Discovery rider in it, then as soon as that groupd catches then launch the other Disco rider. If there are more then one, I would go in order of Popo, HIncapie, Chechu, then Azevedo. This is all according if there form is good. The reason I put it in that order, the next major mountain stage would be Alp D'Huez, which is very steep at the beginning, and averages gradiewnt is 7.9%, which would be a much more suitiable climb for Jose.

Again, this all depends on whose on form, and waht other teams have done.

Capt.Injury said:

Thtactic was what was used by Liberty Seguros in last years Vuelta to allow Heras to gain the advantage by on Menchov.

....and loading him up with PED's.

The strategy is to attack, per Bruyneel. To use the fact that three of their nine riders are GC contenders. I think their best bet would be, in order of declining significance: Savo, Hincapie, Popo. Get Ace back in the domestique role he likes.

Wait for other teams to start attacking, as they will, and then try to attack. Get Chechu + one of the three GC contenders, or Martinez + one of three, or Ace + one of three in a smaller group. Stick with that group until Chechu/Ace/Martinez launches the GC contender.

tcklyde said:

Some days I wish the Paceline.com would open their own forum.

The title of the thread is quite explicit. Why did you click into it?

Maybe you are entertaining your anti-DC buddies, who presumably would also click into a thread on DC tactics, just to muck around a bit?

Human beings, so odd sometimes...

Bro Deal said:

With Armstrong gone Disco should have used the same strategy most other teams use: Designate one or two riders as G.C. hopefuls and give the other riders free reign to go for stage wins.

Deciding half the team should be protected for a possible win in Paris was delusional.

Why? What would they have gained, through today's stage (10), by having a designated leader?
I think stage 11 will either
a) most likely: reveal their strongest climber through attrition, or
b) less likely: see a repeat of the stage 10 scenario, or
c) least likely: see a disco rider attack. Then we'll see if a designated leader would have been a wise idea.
...

Heh...when they know, you'll know.

Capt.Injury said:

Actually I think Savo should wait one stage for the finish in Spain. The Portillion if I recall right is a fairly techincal descent, then the final climb, the Pla-de-Beret, is an average gradient of approx. 5.5% which is much more suited for Savodelli, since he doesn't like the higher pitched climbs. Possibly put a Ekimov or Chechu in the early break, so if Savo can hook up with the break at the bottom of the descent, then send the domestique to the front of the break and power it on the flats (SThis is why I saw Eki or Chechu) and the base of the climb with Savo slipstreaming then launching a vicious attack at the bottom. Thtactic was what was used by Liberty Seguros in last years Vuelta to allow Heras to gain the advantage by on Menchov.

And if a group, catches Savo with another Discovery rider in it, then as soon as that groupd catches then launch the other Disco rider. If there are more then one, I would go in order of Popo, HIncapie, Chechu, then Azevedo. This is all according if there form is good. The reason I put it in that order, the next major mountain stage would be Alp D'Huez, which is very steep at the beginning, and averages gradiewnt is 7.9%, which would be a much more suitiable climb for Jose.

Again, this all depends on whose on form, and waht other teams have done.

Very good analysis, but for ideal situation and in case DC riders are like they were in 2004.
First, Savo won't be allowed to go in breakaway (T-mobile and Phonak would chase him down); second, Discovery will force Hincapie as a leader 'cause he's American and for his merits in last 7 years; and at the end, Disco riders are not in adequate form this year for this kind of work.

Interesting to see Rubiera dropped already on the climb, I think in all the years he has been with USPS/Discovery, I dont ever recall him behind dropped so early.

ALso interesting is that Egoi Martinez is sitting in the front 15 riders while the rest of the Discovery team is in the middle of the peleton. Considering he is Basque, maybe he is thinking about a real good placing in Spain

Interesting dropping order for DC today. Rubiera first, then Savoldelli, the Noval. So that means Eki (mentioned as still being up there) is climbing better than one of DCs climbing domestiques and one of its team leaders. Not so good for DC's chances. Fortunately they still have a few other people who can do something but their podium chances are beginning to fall.