Cunego a lucky winner ?

In article <[email hidden]>, Keith

Quoted message said:

Cunego is certainly an impressive rider, but one can't
help but wonder what would have happened with a second ITT
(Honchar the winner?) or if Simoni hadn't waited with
Popovych on Tuesday, losing 2'39" in the process...nothing
indicates he couldn't have stayed with Cunego on that day,
it's not like he had a bad day or anything.

Actually Simoni did say afterwards that he didn't have the
legs to follow Cunego that day.

Quoted message said:

In any case this Giro proves once again that it's the
riders who make a race hard or not and that's why it pales
in comparison to the TdF where you have many contenders
putting so much pressure, especially in 2003. The Giro
looks a bit like a stroll in the park...

In some ways the Giro climbs are harder than the TOUR's. How
many contenders in the TOUR during the last 5-6 years? 2,
maybe 3 guys each year? About the same as the Giro.

Quoted message said:

I dont' have any recollection of anyone losing the TdF on
a tactical mistake like the one Simoni made this year.

Simoni didn't. What about the mistakes like forgetting to
eat or drink and nearly losing the TOUR in the process?

-WG

"Keith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cunego is certainly an impressive rider, but one can't
help but wonder what would have happened with a second ITT
(Honchar the winner?) or if Simoni hadn't waited with
Popovych on Tuesday, losing 2'39" in the process...nothing
indicates he couldn't have stayed with Cunego on that day,
it's not like he had a bad day or anything. I wonder who
decided Cunego would be the one attacking that day...

In any case this Giro proves once again that it's the
riders who make a race hard or not and that's why it pales
in comparison to the TdF where you have many contenders
putting so much pressure, especially in 2003. The Giro
looks a bit like a stroll in the park...I dont' have any
recollection of anyone losing the TdF on a tactical
mistake like the one Simoni made this year. Maybe Hinault
in 1986 when he attacked in the Pyrenees.

Or 1987 when Delgado attacked far too soon in the stage to
Alpe d'Huez, or 1989 when the Tour was almost a comedy of
errors and both Fignon or Delgado could have won, or 1991,
when Bugno should have followed Indurain in the Pyrenees,
instead of waiting for Lemond, etc. ... And by the way,
Simoni didn't make a tactical mistake, he admitted he hadn't
been capable of doing what Cunego had done.

Benjo Maso

Keith said:

Cunego is certainly an impressive rider, but one can't
help but wonder what would have happened with a second ITT
(Honchar the winner?) or if Simoni hadn't waited with
Popovych on Tuesday, losing 2'39" in the process...nothing
indicates he couldn't have stayed with Cunego on that day,
it's not like he had a bad day or anything. I wonder who
decided Cunego would be the one attacking that day...

Tactics decided, and if you lurked a while before posting
you'd know that this has already been discussed.

Quoted message said:

In any case this Giro proves once again that it's the
riders who make a race hard or not and that's why it pales
in comparison to the TdF where you have many contenders
putting so much pressure, especially in 2003.

It's always the riders who make the race, and you make no
distinction between the two grand tours with this statement.
If you're going to try to make a point, try not to make it
moot in the following statement. By the way, there were just
as many contenders for pink in this year's Giro as there
were in last year's Tour.

Quoted message said:

The Giro looks a bit like a stroll in the park...I dont'
have any recollection of anyone losing the TdF on a
tactical mistake like the one Simoni made this year. Maybe
Hinault in 1986 when he attacked in the Pyrenees.

I can think of two tactical mistakes that have lost riders
the Tour off the top of my head, which means there are many,
many more:

Delgado failing to show up on time for his prologue, Fignon
opting to ride his TT without aero bars or a helmet.

Keith said:

Cunego is certainly an impressive rider, but one can't
help but wonder what would have happened with a second ITT
(Honchar the winner?) or if Simoni hadn't waited with
Popovych on Tuesday, losing 2'39" in the process...nothing
indicates he couldn't have stayed with Cunego on that day,
it's not like he had a bad day or anything. I wonder who
decided Cunego would be the one attacking that day...

There are always counterfactuals. Cunego has clearly
outclimbed Simoni every day that he (Cunego) had
freedom to ride.

Quoted message said:

In any case this Giro proves once again that it's the
riders who make a race hard or not and that's why it pales
in comparison to the TdF where you have many contenders
putting so much pressure, especially in 2003. The Giro
looks a bit like a stroll in the park...I dont' have any
recollection of anyone losing the TdF on a tactical
mistake like the one Simoni made this year. Maybe Hinault
in 1986 when he attacked in the Pyrenees.

The Tour is so important that it encourages conservative
racing. A stage like today's Giro is hardly pale in
comparison to a TdF mountain stage where the favorites all
arrive together at the base of the final climb, with one or
two sacrificial breakaways a minute or two ahead, and the
race is to see the last favorite to crack and whether or not
he can reel in the 15-minutes-down-on-GC escapee. That has
its own suspense and I'll watch it in July and hold my
breath, but it isn't clearly superior to the chaos of the
last few days.

Keith said:

In any case this Giro proves once again that it's the
riders who make a race hard or not and that's why it pales
in comparison to the TdF where you have many contenders
putting so much pressure, especially in 2003. The Giro
looks a bit like a stroll in the park...I dont' have any
recollection of anyone losing the TdF on a tactical
mistake like the one Simoni made this year. Maybe Hinault
in 1986 when he attacked in the Pyrenees.

On the other hand... lately the Giro has been more
interesting. This year, two years ago, there have been a lot
more close races.

--
David N. Welton Consulting: dedasys.comdedasys.comOpen ↗
Personal: dedasys.comdavidwOpen ↗ Free Software:
dedasys.comfreesoftwareOpen ↗ Apache Tcl:
tcl.apache.orgtcl.apache.orgOpen ↗

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Warren
In article <[email hidden]>, Keith

Quoted message said:

Cunego is certainly an impressive rider, but one can't
help but wonder what would have happened with a second ITT
(Honchar the winner?) or if Simoni hadn't waited with
Popovych on Tuesday, losing 2'39" in the process...nothing
indicates he couldn't have stayed with Cunego on that day,
it's not like he had a bad day or anything.

Actually Simoni did say afterwards that he didn't have the
legs to follow Cunego that day.

Quoted message said:

In any case this Giro proves once again that it's the
riders who make a race hard or not and that's why it pales
in comparison to the TdF where you have many contenders
putting so much pressure, especially in 2003. The Giro
looks a bit like a stroll in the park...

In some ways the Giro climbs are harder than the TOUR's. How
many contenders in the TOUR during the last 5-6 years? 2,
maybe 3 guys each year? About the same as the Giro.

Quoted message said:

I dont' have any recollection of anyone losing the TdF on
a tactical mistake like the one Simoni made this year.

Simoni didn't. What about the mistakes like forgetting to
eat or drink and nearly losing the TOUR in the process?

-WG

I agree that Cunego was too fast for Simoni completely, but I disagree about the number of contenders in the Tour. This past Tour had more contenders than the Giro. There were Armstrong, Ullrich, Vinokourov, Hamilton, Zubeldia, and Mayo. Had one day been a little different anyone of these riders could have won the Tour. Lance may have blown Ullrich away if he had taken in enough water on the first TT. Ullrich could have won if he had stayed with the Armstrong group a L'Alpe D'Huez. I don't think he could have won even if he hadn't fallen in the TT to Pornic. He had started to lose time to Lance before he fell-- he was about 10 sec down at the time. Vinokourov could have won with a better team and so could Ullrich. Hamilton could have won if he didn't have a broken collarbone. Zubeldia could have won if the TTT hadn't been terrible for Euskaltel and the final TT too. Mayo could have won if he had been the sole leader of Euskaltel much like Zubeldia. Cycling is full of "what if's."

No tactical mistakes?!?! Ullrich's team couldn't keep up with him in the mountains. Hamilton wasn't close enough to the frone of the peloton in stage 2. 1988--Fignon didn't use aero bars or helmet. Lance almost lost the 2003 Tour for getting dehydrated.