CUI - Cycling under the influence

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:56:34 +1100

headexplodes said:

on their full licence? Surely that wouldn't have to be zero BAC when
they're on a bike, so would that mean that I wouldn't? I mean full car
licence vs P's doesn't seem to have much to do with cycling.

A quick look at ROAD SAFETY (GENERAL) REGULATIONS 1999 - SCHEDULE 4 at
www.austlii.edu.au shows that the offences are all "in charge of a
motor vehicle".

So if you were stopped, it would have to be on the same kind of
offence as a ped would be done for.

Zebee

On 2006-03-16, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:56:34 +1100

headexplodes said:

on their full licence? Surely that wouldn't have to be zero BAC when
they're on a bike, so would that mean that I wouldn't? I mean full car
licence vs P's doesn't seem to have much to do with cycling.

A quick look at ROAD SAFETY (GENERAL) REGULATIONS 1999 - SCHEDULE 4 at
www.austlii.edu.au shows that the offences are all "in charge of a
motor vehicle".

So if you were stopped, it would have to be on the same kind of
offence as a ped would be done for.

Which is drunk and disorderly behaviour.

Most cops know they have no juristiction to pull you over for a random
breath test, although some evidentally think it is within their rights
to do so (just refuse, and if they make trouble, suggest to them that
they go consult their supervising officer).

They have to have due reason to suspect you are drunk, and the level
is usually taken to be about 3x the 0.05 limit. And then they'll do
you for drunk and disorderly behaviour. I have often ridden when
above 0.05, and I can ride perfectly straight. Maybe my senses are
dulled, and I'm a bloody idiot for riding, but in order to be legally
caught, I would be at the stage when I'd be wobbling all over the
road, and having trouble mounting the bike. And then it's damn
obvious that I shouldn't be on the road and I'm a danger to everyone.

Now, your license just can't have any bearing on what you'll be
charged with, and what penalty you'll have. So your question of P's
-- nope, no influence whatsoever.

ObDrunkeness: I had my first cleat accidents tonight in a long time.
Brand new cleats from PBK, I forgot to adjust the tension. I
fortunately decided to check the tension before needing to stop, and
had a great deal of difficulty getting out. Once I was confident I
knew how much strength I needed, I rode on. Then it started pissing
down rain, and I needed to stop. And the feet didn't come out. And
when I eventually came out, I was sliding all over the slippery road.
OK, so I decided it would be best if I loosened it all the way for
safety reasons. Nope, still couldn't get out, and went for another
sprawl along the road. These particular cleats seem to be a real
[censored]! They're much stiffer than the couple of pairs I've had before,
when new. They almost feel like they have no float either. The
second off, I'd only had one beer. Dunno that it was the beer's fault
though 🙂

--
TimC
If anyone tells me to work smarter, not harder, I will kick him
or her, hard, in a random body part. I will then kick him or her
a second time, "smarter, not harder," which is to say that on the
second strike, I'll use the same force, but target more carefully.
-- Catherine in Scary Devil Monastery

TimC said:

ObDrunkeness: I had my first cleat accidents tonight in a long time.
Brand new cleats from PBK, I forgot to adjust the tension. I
fortunately decided to check the tension before needing to stop, and
had a great deal of difficulty getting out. Once I was confident I
knew how much strength I needed, I rode on. Then it started pissing
down rain, and I needed to stop. And the feet didn't come out. And
when I eventually came out, I was sliding all over the slippery road.
OK, so I decided it would be best if I loosened it all the way for
safety reasons. Nope, still couldn't get out, and went for another
sprawl along the road. These particular cleats seem to be a real
[censored]! They're much stiffer than the couple of pairs I've had before,
when new. They almost feel like they have no float either. The
second off, I'd only had one beer. Dunno that it was the beer's fault
though 🙂

What sort of cleats/pedals are you running?

Another guaranteed way to fall is to not tighten the cleats enough on the shoe. Knee meet road. Seems to become more of an issue as shoes get older and if you change the adjustment slightly.

Quoted message said:

A quick look at ROAD SAFETY (GENERAL) REGULATIONS 1999 - SCHEDULE 4 at
www.austlii.edu.au shows that the offences are all "in charge of a
motor vehicle".

So if you were stopped, it would have to be on the same kind of
offence as a ped would be done for.

So what about that guy who wound up in court and was slapped with a
$1000 fine just a few weeks ago? (See article text below)

Jules

Drunk cyclist is banned from driving
Cameron Atfield
28feb06
JULIAN Korpela has never had a driver's licence but he has already been
disqualified from holding one.

He had no idea he would be breaking the law when he jumped on his
bicycle one night after drinking.

As he pedalled along busy Gympie Rd at Lawnton police noticed there was
something erratic about the way he handled his bike.

"It was obvious he was intoxicated while riding," police prosecutor
Senior-Constable Dean Roper told Petrie Magistrates Court yesterday.

"He had trouble stopping and nearly fell off."

Korpela, 18, was riding without lights and wore dark clothing, so it
was difficult for motorists to see him, Sen-Constable Roper said.

He said Korpela then became aggressive towards police before he
recorded a blood alcohol level of .163 - more than three times the
legal limit for drivers.

Korpela pleaded guilty and told the court he regretted his actions, but
was not aware he was breaking the law.

"I had no idea you could get caught riding drunk on a bike," he said.

Magistrate Michael Halliday fined Korpela $1000 for riding drunk, and
disqualified him from holding a licence for 10 months.

He also imposed a $100 fine for the charge of obstructing police, but
no conviction was recorded.

"Riding a bike under the influence of liquor is just as dangerous to
other motorists and to yourself as driving a motor vehicle," Mr
Halliday said.

Jules said:

Quoted message said:

A quick look at ROAD SAFETY (GENERAL) REGULATIONS 1999 - SCHEDULE 4 at
www.austlii.edu.au shows that the offences are all "in charge of a
motor vehicle".

So if you were stopped, it would have to be on the same kind of
offence as a ped would be done for.

So what about that guy who wound up in court and was slapped with a
$1000 fine just a few weeks ago? (See article text below)

Jules

Drunk cyclist is banned from driving
Cameron Atfield
28feb06
JULIAN Korpela has never had a driver's licence but he has already been
disqualified from holding one.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

"Riding a bike under the influence of liquor is just as dangerous to
other motorists and to yourself as driving a motor vehicle," Mr
Halliday said.

And once again, out comes that brilliant quote from Mr Halliday...

Tam

Jules said:

Quoted message said:

A quick look at ROAD SAFETY (GENERAL) REGULATIONS 1999 - SCHEDULE 4 at
www.austlii.edu.au shows that the offences are all "in charge of a
motor vehicle".

So if you were stopped, it would have to be on the same kind of
offence as a ped would be done for.

So what about that guy who wound up in court and was slapped with a
$1000 fine just a few weeks ago? (See article text below)

Jules

There's a difference between riding under the influence of alcohol and
driving with more than the prescribed concentration of alcohol in your
blood (or in some cases blood in your alcohol). The guy in the article
could have refused to submit to a breath test if he wanted and then the
police would have had to prove he was intoxicated in some other way. But
based on the evidence reported in the article they probably would have
had little problem.

Interesting that he wasn't charged with riding without lights.

P

--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

On 2006-03-16, sinus (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

TimC said:

ObDrunkeness: I had my first cleat accidents tonight in a long time.
Brand new cleats from PBK, I forgot to adjust the tension. I
fortunately decided to check the tension before needing to stop, and
had a great deal of difficulty getting out. Once I was confident I
knew how much strength I needed, I rode on. Then it started pissing
down rain, and I needed to stop. And the feet didn't come out. And
when I eventually came out, I was sliding all over the slippery road.
OK, so I decided it would be best if I loosened it all the way for
safety reasons. Nope, still couldn't get out, and went for another
sprawl along the road. These particular cleats seem to be a real
[censored]! They're much stiffer than the couple of pairs I've had before,
when new. They almost feel like they have no float either. The
second off, I'd only had one beer. Dunno that it was the beer's fault
though 🙂

What sort of cleats/pedals are you running?

Look reds with float: http://probikekit.com/display.php?code=A1602

I've really got to get off my [censored] and get egg-beaters.

Quoted message said:

Another guaranteed way to fall is to not tighten the cleats enough on
the shoe. Knee meet road. Seems to become more of an issue as shoes get
older and if you change the adjustment slightly.

Yep. Because it was so stiff, I think I felt mine moving slightly, so
I've got the screwdriver in one of my shoes to remind me to adjust it
before leaving. Hopefully I won't stab my foot instead 🙂

--
TimC
Computer screens simply ooze buckets of yang.
To balance this, place some women around the corners of the room.
-- Kaz Cooke, Dumb Feng Shui

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:37:17 +1100

Jules said:

Quoted message said:

A quick look at ROAD SAFETY (GENERAL) REGULATIONS 1999 - SCHEDULE 4 at
www.austlii.edu.au shows that the offences are all "in charge of a
motor vehicle".

So if you were stopped, it would have to be on the same kind of
offence as a ped would be done for.

So what about that guy who wound up in court and was slapped with a
$1000 fine just a few weeks ago? (See article text below)

You'll notice he was lissed as a pizzard.

I don't understand how the magistrate was able to disqualify from
driving, I expect that's a discretion thing rather than a standard
penalty for the offence.

I would say that someone on P plates is not committing an offence if
they ride a bicycle with more than 0.00, but if they get roaring drunk
and are in public they are committing an offence bicycle or no.

Remembering that legal advice on the internet is worth what you paid
for it. If the OP is seriously worried, then they should locate one
of the free advice lines that people like law schools and the law
society run, or if they are a member of the RACV or similar they ask
them.

Zebee

Hi,

Thanks for all the advice ppls! I was just scared that there might be
some law that makes it just as bad as driving to be riding drunk. I'd
never hop on my bike blind drunk coz that would be just
counter-productive to me living longer. All I want is to be able to have
a beer get home without waiting like 8 hours for it to be all out of my
system.

Cheers,
Robert.

Zebee Johnstone said:

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:56:34 +1100

headexplodes said:

on their full licence? Surely that wouldn't have to be zero BAC when
they're on a bike, so would that mean that I wouldn't? I mean full car
licence vs P's doesn't seem to have much to do with cycling.

A quick look at ROAD SAFETY (GENERAL) REGULATIONS 1999 - SCHEDULE 4 at
www.austlii.edu.au shows that the offences are all "in charge of a
motor vehicle".

So if you were stopped, it would have to be on the same kind of
offence as a ped would be done for.

Zebee

"Zebee Johnstone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:37:17 +1100

Quoted message said:

I don't understand how the magistrate was able to disqualify from
driving, I expect that's a discretion thing rather than a standard
penalty for the offence.

Hmm...depends on the state. In SA you can rack up demerit points without
even having a license by committing offences on other vehicles. For
example, I could ride my pet giraffe through a stop sign, get caught, and
get demerit points. I then could apply for a drivers license, but because I
already had points racked up against my name, I would get refused. You
could also get caught running a red light for example on your bicycle
several times, and subsequently lose your motorvehicle license.... I believe
this is unique to SA BTW.

Drink driving is a tricker one to nut out, because police are only allowed
to randomly breath-test MOTOR vehicle drivers. You can't be pulled over
randomly whilst riding your pet giraffe (or bicycle). You'd have to be
pulled over 'not randomly', ie look [censored] as a newt, or already have caused
a danger etc. I believe this is the case Australia wide, not just SA.

Cheers
Gemma

Gemma_k said:

Hmm...depends on the state. In SA you can rack up demerit points
without even having a license by committing offences on other
vehicles. For example, I could ride my pet giraffe through a stop
sign, get caught, and get demerit points. I then could apply for a
drivers license, but because I already had points racked up against
my name, I would get refused. You could also get caught running a
red light for example on your bicycle several times, and subsequently
lose your motorvehicle license.... I believe this is unique to SA BTW.

No, it's not.

Quoted message said:

Drink driving is a tricker one to nut out, because police are only
allowed to randomly breath-test MOTOR vehicle drivers. You can't be
pulled over randomly whilst riding your pet giraffe (or bicycle). You'd
have to be pulled over 'not randomly', ie look [censored] as a
newt, or already have caused a danger etc. I believe this is the
case Australia wide, not just SA.

There was a case many years ago in country WA, before random testing when a
policeman could and would stop you because you looked [censored], where an 80
something bloke lost the licence he never had for falling off the horse, who
faithfully took him home from the pub on Saturday nights.

Theo

TimC said:

On 2006-03-16, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:56:34 +1100

headexplodes said:

on their full licence? Surely that wouldn't have to be zero BAC when
they're on a bike, so would that mean that I wouldn't? I mean full car
licence vs P's doesn't seem to have much to do with cycling.

A quick look at ROAD SAFETY (GENERAL) REGULATIONS 1999 - SCHEDULE 4 at
www.austlii.edu.au shows that the offences are all "in charge of a
motor vehicle".

So if you were stopped, it would have to be on the same kind of
offence as a ped would be done for.

Which is drunk and disorderly behaviour.

Most cops know they have no juristiction to pull you over for a random
breath test, although some evidentally think it is within their rights
to do so (just refuse, and if they make trouble, suggest to them that
they go consult their supervising officer).

They have to have due reason to suspect you are drunk, and the level
is usually taken to be about 3x the 0.05 limit. And then they'll do
you for drunk and disorderly behaviour. I have often ridden when
above 0.05, and I can ride perfectly straight. Maybe my senses are
dulled, and I'm a bloody idiot for riding, but in order to be legally
caught, I would be at the stage when I'd be wobbling all over the
road, and having trouble mounting the bike. And then it's damn
obvious that I shouldn't be on the road and I'm a danger to everyone.

Now, your license just can't have any bearing on what you'll be
charged with, and what penalty you'll have. So your question of P's
-- nope, no influence whatsoever.

ObDrunkeness: I had my first cleat accidents tonight in a long time.
Brand new cleats from PBK, I forgot to adjust the tension. I
fortunately decided to check the tension before needing to stop, and
had a great deal of difficulty getting out. Once I was confident I
knew how much strength I needed, I rode on. Then it started pissing
down rain, and I needed to stop. And the feet didn't come out. And
when I eventually came out, I was sliding all over the slippery road.
OK, so I decided it would be best if I loosened it all the way for
safety reasons. Nope, still couldn't get out, and went for another
sprawl along the road. These particular cleats seem to be a real
[censored]! They're much stiffer than the couple of pairs I've had before,
when new. They almost feel like they have no float either. The
second off, I'd only had one beer. Dunno that it was the beer's fault
though 🙂

Are these shimano SPD's or some other brand? Be aware if they're
another brand that SPD and SPD are not all the same, and that some
brand cleats won't work very well with other brand pedals. Some won't
clip in, some won't let you get out.

Please, don't ride home [censored]. Your judgement gets screwed as well as
your fine motor control, so you make bad decisions, and can't modulate
brakes well or balance as well as you might think.

On 2006-03-20, Bleve (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

TimC said:

ObDrunkeness: I had my first cleat accidents tonight in a long time.
Brand new cleats from PBK, I forgot to adjust the tension. I
fortunately decided to check the tension before needing to stop, and
had a great deal of difficulty getting out. Once I was confident I
knew how much strength I needed, I rode on. Then it started pissing
down rain, and I needed to stop. And the feet didn't come out. And
when I eventually came out, I was sliding all over the slippery road.
OK, so I decided it would be best if I loosened it all the way for
safety reasons. Nope, still couldn't get out, and went for another
sprawl along the road. These particular cleats seem to be a real
[censored]! They're much stiffer than the couple of pairs I've had before,
when new. They almost feel like they have no float either. The
second off, I'd only had one beer. Dunno that it was the beer's fault
though 🙂

Are these shimano SPD's or some other brand? Be aware if they're
another brand that SPD and SPD are not all the same, and that some
brand cleats won't work very well with other brand pedals. Some won't
clip in, some won't let you get out.

Look delta (floats): http://probikekit.com/display.php?code=A1602

and a Exatar (sp?) clone (I can't read the writing because it's worn
off, and google isn't finding the right spelling for me). I've always
used look deltas.

I think they have worn in now -- I've still got the pedal loosened as
much as possible, but I can get out without too much of a struggle
now.

--
TimC
pivot_root manpage: BUGS:
Some of the more obscure uses of pivot_root may quickly lead to insanity.

Gemma_k said:

Drink driving is a tricker one to nut out, because police are only allowed
to randomly breath-test MOTOR vehicle drivers. You can't be pulled over
randomly whilst riding your pet giraffe (or bicycle). You'd have to be
pulled over 'not randomly', ie look [censored] as a newt, or already have caused
a danger etc. I believe this is the case Australia wide, not just SA.

In NSW (AFAIK) they're not supposed to ask for your licence
during a RBT, but I *always* have been. I think they'd just
RBT you on bicycle anyway.

-kt

--
Kingsley Turner,
(mailto: [email hidden])
http://MadDogsBreakfast.com/ABFAQ - news:aus.bicycle Frequenly Asked Questions

Theo Bekkers said:

Gemma_k said:

Hmm...depends on the state. In SA you can rack up demerit points
without even having a license by committing offences on other
vehicles. For example, I could ride my pet giraffe through a stop
sign, get caught, and get demerit points. I then could apply for a
drivers license, but because I already had points racked up against
my name, I would get refused. You could also get caught running a
red light for example on your bicycle several times, and subsequently
lose your motorvehicle license.... I believe this is unique to SA BTW.

No, it's not.

Quoted message said:

Drink driving is a tricker one to nut out, because police are only
allowed to randomly breath-test MOTOR vehicle drivers. You can't be
pulled over randomly whilst riding your pet giraffe (or bicycle). You'd
have to be pulled over 'not randomly', ie look [censored] as a
newt, or already have caused a danger etc. I believe this is the
case Australia wide, not just SA.

There was a case many years ago in country WA, before random testing when a
policeman could and would stop you because you looked [censored], where an 80
something bloke lost the licence he never had for falling off the horse, who
faithfully took him home from the pub on Saturday nights.

Theo

Well since he was obviously a dangerous horse rider - did they take his
horse licence off him?? I mean if he's has and is never gonna drive car,
whats a car licence got to do with being [censored] on a horse?? :S

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There was a case many years ago in country WA, before random testing
when a policeman could and would stop you because you looked [censored],
where an 80 something bloke lost the licence he never had for falling
off the horse, who faithfully took him home from the pub on Saturday
nights.

Well since he was obviously a dangerous horse rider - did they take his
horse licence off him?? I mean if he's has and is never gonna drive car,
whats a car licence got to do with being [censored] on a horse?? :S

*Last sentence should read "I mean if he's never had is licence and is
never gonna drive a car, ..."

headexplodes said:

Quoted message said:

Well since he was obviously a dangerous horse rider - did they take
his horse licence off him?? I mean if he's has and is never gonna
drive car, whats a car licence got to do with being [censored] on a
horse?? :S

*Last sentence should read "I mean if he's never had is licence and is
never gonna drive a car, ..."

No, you don't need a licence to ride a horse or a bicycle, so whilst you may
get a driving disqualification whilst riding either, it won't disqualify you
from riding either.

Theo

Zebee Johnstone said:

A quick look at ROAD SAFETY (GENERAL) REGULATIONS 1999 - SCHEDULE 4 at
www.austlii.edu.au shows that the offences are all "in charge of a
motor vehicle".

So if you were stopped, it would have to be on the same kind of
offence as a ped would be done for.

Did you check there wasn't one of those brilliant "Section 2 para (a)
part iii does (not) apply if in charge of another wheeled vehicle etc.
etc." that captures bikes?

Donga

quote='headexplodes'Theo Bekkers said:

Gemma_k said:

Hmm...depends on the state. In SA you can rack up demerit points
without even having a license by committing offences on other
vehicles. For example, I could ride my pet giraffe through a stop
sign, get caught, and get demerit points. I then could apply for a
drivers license, but because I already had points racked up against
my name, I would get refused. You could also get caught running a
red light for example on your bicycle several times, and subsequently
lose your motorvehicle license.... I believe this is unique to SA BTW.

No, it's not.

Quoted message said:

Drink driving is a tricker one to nut out, because police are only
allowed to randomly breath-test MOTOR vehicle drivers. You can't be
pulled over randomly whilst riding your pet giraffe (or bicycle). You'd
have to be pulled over 'not randomly', ie look [censored] as a
newt, or already have caused a danger etc. I believe this is the
case Australia wide, not just SA.

There was a case many years ago in country WA, before random testing when a
policeman could and would stop you because you looked [censored], where an 80
something bloke lost the licence he never had for falling off the horse, who
faithfully took him home from the pub on Saturday nights.

Theo

Well since he was obviously a dangerous horse rider - did they take his
horse licence off him?? I mean if he's has and is never gonna drive car,
whats a car licence got to do with being [censored] on a horse?? :S[/QUOTE]A mate of mine was done for DUI in QLD many years ago,in his car.He was disqualified for two years and fined. So he rode his bike home from the pub.
Then he was done for riding his bike on the road...another two years and a fine.
So then he rode a horse home from the pub,you guessed it...another two years (making six in total) and a fine...and a fine for not having stirrup lights.