CTC error

Peter Fox <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

$64,000 question for urc : Who /would be/ a better ambassador?

Griff Rhys Jones was wheeling around on his bike doing links in
the recent series of Restoration - sometimes his riding seemed
to suffer in order to get to point X by word Y, though...

Disappointing to see CTC appoint a pavement-cycling 'get them
off the roads' head. Can't some CTC members start a vote to
reverse it?
--
MJR/slef
Somerset, England.

Following on from burt's message. . .

Quoted message said:

AHD is yet another helmet obsessive. He wears one on his recumbent and it's
his trademark!

Quoted message said:

Cycling needs brains not mouthpieces.

Anyone who blindly accepts that helmets work doesn't have a brain, and can't
be bothered with little things like evidence.

Hold on! Speaking as a virulent /anti-compulsion/ and anti-assumption
that Hs do any good /in accidents/ person, I object to that facile and
silly statement. [Discussion continues ad infinitum....]

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the bottom fell out of the bucket business
[email hidden]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

"Peter Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Following on from burt's message. . .

Quoted message said:

AHD is yet another helmet obsessive. He wears one on his recumbent and
it's
his trademark!

Quoted message said:

Cycling needs brains not mouthpieces.

Anyone who blindly accepts that helmets work doesn't have a brain, and
can't
be bothered with little things like evidence.

Hold on! Speaking as a virulent /anti-compulsion/ and anti-assumption
that Hs do any good /in accidents/ person, I object to that facile and
silly statement. [Discussion continues ad infinitum....]

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the bottom fell out of the bucket business
[email hidden]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

Nice bit of cutting Peter, since I never said any of the above!

burt said:

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The CTC has made an unwise move, I think.

According to the copy of Cycle which arrived this morning, Jon Snow
is the new CTC president, having been invited to take the role once
Phil Liggett steps down.

This will be Jon Snow, the newsreader, who back in February on
'Richard & Judy' (13th February 2006) admitted he tells people not
to take up cycling as "it's too dangerous out there" and that
cyclists should be kept separate from traffic on separate
facilities, so promoting the erroneous view that cycling is
inherently dangerous. How long is it going to take before this comes
back and bites the CTC in its organisational backside when the media
picks up on how the CTC has a president who thinks cyclists should
be kept off the roads, yet at the same time supporting Daniel
Cadden, a CTC member who was fined for cycling on the road. Mixed
messages from the CTC, anyone? I feel like handing in my CTC membership
in disgust.

Cheers, helen s

I'm not impressed either! The following is a letter to "Cycle" the
CTC mag, which I've just emailed to the editor.

I would suggest that there is also a council (chair: Jill Kieran) of the CTC
who should be written to.

If people feel strongly that Snow is inappropriate, the council appears to
be the place to address the questions.

Quoted message said:

"Dear sir,

I read with some disappointment of the accession of Jon Snow to the
position of President of my club.........................

Well written letter given your point of view.

I don't feel as strongly as burt or wafflycat, but would appreciate some
clarification over the comments made by Snow in the R&J interview.

I'm also not convinced by some of the suggested names, though one or two
might work. The CTC needs someone other than a retired top athelete at the
head; the organisation needs people who ride to the shops as normal everyday
activity.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Another hat in the ring, what about Alexi Sayle? well know for cycling roiund London, never seen him wear a helmet, opinionated, well known, well informed and funny :-)

I'm certainly not sure about JS at the moment, I think we need to see what he's got to say about THAt interview, as I'm sure it will be brought up countless times.

Bryan

In article <[email hidden]>

David Martin said:

How about Griff Rhys Jones?

Managed to take his emminently sensible hybrid everywhere on
Restoration Village, wearing normal clothes and not a 'specialist'
piece of gear in sight. Made no fuss about the bike, it was just there
and normal.

I didn't see that, but he sounds like a good candidate.

In article <[email hidden]>,
"burt" <[email hidden]> wrote:

And I've just responded:

Your email accusing me of being pro-helmet arrived just days after
correspondence accusing me (and the magazine) of being anti-helmetŠ

I am answerable to CTC Coucil via the magazine editorial committee on
this matter, as on all others. As for an article questioning the
effectiveness of helmets, see Aug-Sep 03, p26-27.

All the best
Dan Joyce

Quoted message said:

I'm not impressed either! The following is a letter to "Cycle" the CTC mag,
which I've just emailed to the editor.

"Dear sir,

I read with some disappointment of the accession of Jon Snow to the position
of President of my club. Not because he is a journalist, and only
politicians are held in less regard than them, but because I heard an
interview with Mr Snow, where he claimed that a cycle helmet had saved his
life, and that anyone sensible wore such a device. By implication, Mr Snow
considers that anyone not wearing a cycle helmet is an idiot.

I find it hard to accept that someone, supposedly professionally
questioning, is unhesitating in their acceptance that cycle helmets work. I
used to believe that helmets must work, but changed my mind after reading
the evidence, and I find Mr Snow's assertions to be as credible as the pot
of gold at the end of the rainbow.

The evidence is clear, compelling and undisputed: cycle helmets don't work.
Nowhere that has introduced helmet compulsion has shown any reduction in
risk to cyclists, and some show an increase in risk. None of the evidence
showing the lack of effect of helmets has been challenged, but most, if not
all, of the evidence supposedly demonstrating their effectiveness has been
shown to be biased and unreliable.

The CTC's position on cycle helmets has been clearly stated many times, that
it is a matter of individual choice, which should be made on the best
available evidence. Mr Snow, from his public pronouncements, appears not to
support this view.

Neither, Mr Editor, would you appear to. The matter of helmets and their
disproportionate numbers in pictures in "Cycle" have been commented on
several times, and you have made some rather feeble excuses for their
preponderance. You published a learned article about what helmets were
supposed to do, but I have waited in vain for an article explaining that, in
the real world, they don't do it.

Helmet wearing in the general population of cyclists is somewhere between 20
and 25%. The latest edition of "Cycle" has almost exactly the opposite
proportion, with the helmeted cyclist pictures being generally larger and in
more prominent positions than the un-helmeted. Previous editions under your
editorship have shown the same gross, unjustifiable and unrealistic
imbalance. As a national councilor, I voted for taking the magazine from
in-house production to the outsourced production it now is. Whilst this has
been successful in many ways, if I had known then that it would become
unrepresentative and helmet-obsessed, I would not have voted for the change.

All of which leaves me in a dilemma: do I really want to belong to a club
with a President who thinks that the majority of the members are idiots, and
which has a magazine editor who opposes the majority view of that club?

Yours sincerely

Richard Burton"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he tells people not to
take up cycling as "it's too dangerous out there"

Quoted message said:

Not read all the responses - but he is probably right. Of course
cycling is not inherently dangerous - but we share the roads with
idiots [snippity]

Yebbut if it's too dangerous to cycle it's too dangerous to walk, as both
have similar KSI levels per mile. I assume you don't think it's "too
dangerous out there" to walk to work?

Mark.

Peter Fox wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

why have somebody who fits the 'retired old fogey with a basket on the

handlebars and cycle clips on their tweeds' stereotype

Quoted message said:

$64,000 question for urc : Who /would be/ a better ambassador?
The obvious candidate is Adam Hart-Davis

<sarcasm>Who absolutely does not fit that sterotype.</>

Bryan said:

Another hat in the ring, what about Alexi Sayle? well know for
cycling roiund London, never seen him wear a helmet, opinionated,
well known, well informed and funny :-)

He's also well-known for being a petrolhead, thobut. Used to write a column
for "CAR" magazine.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Flies are the work of Stan, and should be killed by all means
available.

In article <[email hidden]>

Dave Larrington said:

Bryan said:

Another hat in the ring, what about Alexi Sayle? well know for
cycling roiund London, never seen him wear a helmet, opinionated,
well known, well informed and funny :-)

He's also well-known for being a petrolhead, thobut. Used to write a column
for "CAR" magazine.

The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, although it sometimes
seems that way.

burt said:

"Peter Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Following on from burt's message. . .

Quoted message said:

AHD is yet another helmet obsessive. He wears one on his recumbent and
it's
his trademark!

>Cycling needs brains not mouthpieces.

Anyone who blindly accepts that helmets work doesn't have a brain, and
can't
be bothered with little things like evidence.

Hold on! Speaking as a virulent /anti-compulsion/ and anti-assumption
that Hs do any good /in accidents/ person, I object to that facile and
silly statement. [Discussion continues ad infinitum....]

Nice bit of cutting Peter, since I never said any of the above!

Err, according to my newsreader, you did.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"To communicate with Mars, converse with spirits, To report the
behaviour of the sea monster, Describe the horoscope, haruspicate or
scry, Observe disease in signatures." (T.S.Eliot)

"Dan Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"burt" <[email hidden]> wrote:

And I've just responded:

Your email accusing me of being pro-helmet arrived just days after
correspondence accusing me (and the magazine) of being anti-helmetS

Now I'm intrigued. Just how can any sane person accuse you and the mag of
being anti-helmet?

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The CTC has made an unwise move, I think.

According to the copy of Cycle which arrived this morning, Jon Snow
is the new CTC president, having been invited to take the role once
Phil Liggett steps down.

This will be Jon Snow, the newsreader, who back in February on
'Richard & Judy' (13th February 2006) admitted he tells people not
to take up cycling as "it's too dangerous out there"

[snip]

Well, I've never watched Richard & Judy, but I have heard Jon Snow at
a couple of London Cycling Campaign AGMs. I don't remember what he
said, but I'm surprised at views like that. Is there an exact
transcript, or a recording, or something?

Anyway, I live in London, too. It's a pretty nice place to cycle
round. There's too much boring suburb to get from the middle out to
open countryside, but the trains still work here (more or less) to
let you bypass that.

The statistics are only averages, of both Jon Snow and me. If it's
more dangerous for him, it must be less dangerous for me.

Jeremy Parker

"Dan Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Your email accusing me of being pro-helmet arrived just days after
correspondence accusing me (and the magazine) of being anti-helmetS

I am answerable to CTC Coucil via the magazine editorial committee
on
this matter, as on all others. As for an article questioning the
effectiveness of helmets, see Aug-Sep 03, p26-27.

From that I gather that somebody has stirred the editorial committee
up, so that it has a policy. Unfortunate, but inevitable, I suppose.

What is that policy?

Jeremy Parker

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Peter Fox

(') said:

$64,000 question for urc : Who /would be/ a better ambassador?
The obvious candidate is Adam Hart-Davis who has the 'dirty knees'
qualification but there must be alternatives which those of you
with
televisions and sporty knowledge would know about.

Boris Jonstone?

No, I am vaguely serious. He is a Tory, I know, but he is well
known as a
regular utility cyclist and is media-friendly in his own bizarre
way.

I would vote for Boris J. as well. Not for David Cameron, though, or
Adam Hart-Davis. Both of them make cycling look too weird

A few years ago there was a nice picture of Tony Blair riding a bike
round Amsterdam. He might have more time to take it up again soon

If we're thinking about cycling Tories, there's always Lord
Salisbury, not the present one, but the one who was prime minister in
the 19 century. He rode a tricycle, and didn't believe in democracy

Jeremy Parker

"Don Whybrow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

burt said:

"Peter Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Following on from burt's message. . .

>AHD is yet another helmet obsessive. He wears one on his recumbent and
>it's
>his trademark!
>
>>Cycling needs brains not mouthpieces.
>
>Anyone who blindly accepts that helmets work doesn't have a brain, and
>can't
>be bothered with little things like evidence.

Hold on! Speaking as a virulent /anti-compulsion/ and anti-assumption
that Hs do any good /in accidents/ person, I object to that facile and
silly statement. [Discussion continues ad infinitum....]

Nice bit of cutting Peter, since I never said any of the above!

Err, according to my newsreader, you did.
--
Don Whybrow

something wrong with your newsreader then.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Peter Fox

(') said:

$64,000 question for urc : Who /would be/ a better ambassador?
The obvious candidate is Adam Hart-Davis who has the 'dirty knees'
qualification but there must be alternatives which those of you with
televisions and sporty knowledge would know about.

Boris Jonstone?

No, I am vaguely serious. He is a Tory, I know, but he is well known as a
regular utility cyclist and is media-friendly in his own bizarre way.

And Boris Johnson has no truck with stupid regulations - see his recent
piece about booster seats. I'd guess he'd be the same with regard to
the dreaded Hs.

David Martin said:

Whether he will ever have a 'Jon and his
mates' ride like the Ph&F remains to be seen (dodging through city
centres on the pavement?)

You might find yourself having to ride the length of Italy with Jon.

Tony Raven said:

John Cauldwell (now he's sold Phones4U he
will have time on his hands and has the cachet of being able to say he
prefers cycling the 200 miles to London for a meeting over taking the
helicopter)

But his parsimonious streak is legendary.