Crucifying Alternative Medicine

"DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Ever notice those that regularly cast stones in this newsgroup against
alternative medicine seem to have an agenda with those that have chosen to

use

Quoted message said:

some form of alternative medicine?

Most of those "stone casters" use alternative medicines.

Quoted message said:

It reminds me of a certain group of individuals, who stand to lose

financial

Quoted message said:

gain if the word gets out about alternative therapies and how they do

work.

They whould be whom?

Quoted message said:

Some of you are absolutely clueless about freedoms we have to choose what

type

Quoted message said:

of medicine we use, and dislike those that use alternative medicine and

promote

Quoted message said:

healing which is to find the root of the medical problem instead of

masking it

Quoted message said:

with drugs. Some of us don't believe in being co-dependent on

pharmaceuticals,

Quoted message said:

to make it through the day. I know numerous people that live with so much

pain

Quoted message said:

every day, that in order to make it through the day, they have to keep
themselves doped up on pain killers to last.

Tell them to stop reading your posts.

Quoted message said:

For those that have been harassed by individuals in this newsgroup that do

not

Quoted message said:

like alternative therapies, remember, the words spoken years ago, "forgive
them, for they do not know what they are doing." They are attempting to
crucify methods that work, because they do not understand, and for which

there

Quoted message said:

is no financial gain for themselves or their friends...

Goddess-like.

Quoted message said:

A question to those that continue to harass...is it THAT important for

you to

Quoted message said:

be sitting on what you have been led to believe is the "right side of the
fence", or would you rather back down, and THINK for yourself before

denouncing

Quoted message said:

therapies for which you have no personal experience,

IOW, suppress your critical thinking skills and almost exclusively belive in
personal testimonials.

moo

"DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ever notice those that regularly cast stones in this newsgroup against
alternative medicine seem to have an agenda with those that have chosen to

use

Quoted message said:

some form of alternative medicine?
It reminds me of a certain group of individuals, who stand to lose

financial

Quoted message said:

gain if the word gets out about alternative therapies and how they do

work.

Quoted message said:

Just like with Jesus, it is over "pure jealousy" of healing powers, that

made

Quoted message said:

them so insanely jealous. And for the fact, that conventional medicine

is not

Quoted message said:

getting every dollar. Is this not true, and is this not the real reason,

some

Quoted message said:

of you are hell bent on attempting to destroy every individual that has

the

Quoted message said:

guts to step up to the plate, and state how alternative medicine has

helped

Quoted message said:

them?
Some of you are absolutely clueless about freedoms we have to choose what

type

Quoted message said:

of medicine we use, and dislike those that use alternative medicine and

promote

Quoted message said:

healing which is to find the root of the medical problem instead of

masking it

Quoted message said:

with drugs. Some of us don't believe in being co-dependent on

pharmaceuticals,

Quoted message said:

to make it through the day. I know numerous people that live with so much

pain

Quoted message said:

every day, that in order to make it through the day, they have to keep
themselves doped up on pain killers to last. Is this any kind of life for
these people? When I've asked why doesn't your doctor look for the source

of

Quoted message said:

the pain, and do something about it...well, their doctor doesn't have

time, or

Quoted message said:

has been told to look for the "quick fix". These people are merely

surviving,

Quoted message said:

and not living because they are being "controlled". This type of sadistic
behavior from doctors who allegedly took an oath when they became doctors

is

Quoted message said:

little more than just their friendly pharmaceutical company. Or what kind

of

Quoted message said:

bonuses they've received over the years for their quick appointments?
For those that claim anti-semitism remarks about those of us that are not

of

Quoted message said:

your faith, perhaps you need explain how some of your people were

justified in

Quoted message said:

crucifying Christ, and why some of your people today are attempting to

crucify

Quoted message said:

those individuals have discovering alternative healing therapies that do

work.

Quoted message said:

For those that have been harassed by individuals in this newsgroup that do

not

Quoted message said:

like alternative therapies, remember, the words spoken years ago, "forgive
them, for they do not know what they are doing." They are attempting to
crucify methods that work, because they do not understand, and for which

there

Quoted message said:

is no financial gain for themselves or their friends...
A question to those that continue to harass...is it THAT important for

you to

Quoted message said:

be sitting on what you have been led to believe is the "right side of the
fence", or would you rather back down, and THINK for yourself before

denouncing

Quoted message said:

therapies for which you have no personal experience, and for which others
have.....the choice is yours, but remember if you choose the wrong choice,

you

Quoted message said:

may find yourself in a situation later on in life, as the rest of us have,
when there is no form of conventional medicine that will work for you, and

then

Quoted message said:

what will you do then...die....or try an alternative?
I chose trying alternative therapies....what will you try?

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Good post , well said .
Bew

Quoted message said:

Yup like Barret 'ignore the evidence Barret' because it suits me sir.
When the 'Quackbusters' can't destroy the treatment they go on a witch hunt
for the people who give it.
Anth

"DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ever notice those that regularly cast stones in this newsgroup against
alternative medicine seem to have an agenda with those that have chosen to

use

Quoted message said:

some form of alternative medicine?
It reminds me of a certain group of individuals, who stand to lose

financial

Quoted message said:

gain if the word gets out about alternative therapies and how they do

work.

Quoted message said:

Just like with Jesus, it is over "pure jealousy" of healing powers, that

made

Quoted message said:

them so insanely jealous. And for the fact, that conventional medicine

is not

Quoted message said:

getting every dollar. Is this not true, and is this not the real reason,

some

Quoted message said:

of you are hell bent on attempting to destroy every individual that has

the

Quoted message said:

guts to step up to the plate, and state how alternative medicine has

helped

Quoted message said:

them?
Some of you are absolutely clueless about freedoms we have to choose what

type

Quoted message said:

of medicine we use, and dislike those that use alternative medicine and

promote

Quoted message said:

healing which is to find the root of the medical problem instead of

masking it

Quoted message said:

with drugs. Some of us don't believe in being co-dependent on

pharmaceuticals,

Quoted message said:

to make it through the day. I know numerous people that live with so much

pain

Quoted message said:

every day, that in order to make it through the day, they have to keep
themselves doped up on pain killers to last. Is this any kind of life for
these people? When I've asked why doesn't your doctor look for the source

of

Quoted message said:

the pain, and do something about it...well, their doctor doesn't have

time, or

Quoted message said:

has been told to look for the "quick fix". These people are merely

surviving,

Quoted message said:

and not living because they are being "controlled". This type of sadistic
behavior from doctors who allegedly took an oath when they became doctors

is

Quoted message said:

little more than just their friendly pharmaceutical company. Or what kind

of

Quoted message said:

bonuses they've received over the years for their quick appointments?
For those that claim anti-semitism remarks about those of us that are not

of

Quoted message said:

your faith, perhaps you need explain how some of your people were

justified in

Quoted message said:

crucifying Christ, and why some of your people today are attempting to

crucify

Quoted message said:

those individuals have discovering alternative healing therapies that do

work.

Quoted message said:

For those that have been harassed by individuals in this newsgroup that do

not

Quoted message said:

like alternative therapies, remember, the words spoken years ago, "forgive
them, for they do not know what they are doing." They are attempting to
crucify methods that work, because they do not understand, and for which

there

Quoted message said:

is no financial gain for themselves or their friends...
A question to those that continue to harass...is it THAT important for

you to

Quoted message said:

be sitting on what you have been led to believe is the "right side of the
fence", or would you rather back down, and THINK for yourself before

denouncing

Quoted message said:

therapies for which you have no personal experience, and for which others
have.....the choice is yours, but remember if you choose the wrong choice,

you

Quoted message said:

may find yourself in a situation later on in life, as the rest of us have,
when there is no form of conventional medicine that will work for you, and

then

Quoted message said:

what will you do then...die....or try an alternative?
I chose trying alternative therapies....what will you try?

"DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ever notice those that regularly cast stones in this newsgroup against
alternative medicine seem to have an agenda with those that have chosen to

use

Quoted message said:

some form of alternative medicine?

Actually, the "agenda" is to defend the scientific method and rational
thought against the magical thinking and superstition of the alties. There
is as much "stone throwing" from the other side as from us debunkers and
more personal invective.

Quoted message said:

It reminds me of a certain group of individuals, who stand to lose

financial

Quoted message said:

gain if the word gets out about alternative therapies and how they do

work.

Contrary to the beliefs of a few here, NOBODY gets paid to post to this
newsgroup. And nothing posted here reaches a wide enough audience to affect
the income of anybody.

Quoted message said:

Just like with Jesus, it is over "pure jealousy" of healing powers, that

made

Quoted message said:

them so insanely jealous.

What healing powers?

Quoted message said:

And for the fact, that conventional medicine is not
getting every dollar. Is this not true, and is this not the real reason,

some

Quoted message said:

of you are hell bent on attempting to destroy every individual that has

the

Quoted message said:

guts to step up to the plate, and state how alternative medicine has

helped

Quoted message said:

them?

We don't want to "destroy" individuals. We just want to shoot down silly
ideas.

Quoted message said:

Some of you are absolutely clueless about freedoms we have to choose what

type

Quoted message said:

of medicine we use, and dislike those that use alternative medicine and

promote

Quoted message said:

healing which is to find the root of the medical problem instead of

masking it

Quoted message said:

with drugs.

"Find the root of the medical problem"? One of the biggest problems with
altie quackery is that its practitioners do not do a proper diagnosis. If
they are selling chelation, everybody's problem is one that can be treated
with chelation; if they are chiropractors, everyone is diagnosed
"subluxations"; homeopathy ignores diagnosis entirely and treats the
symptoms specifically; etc. NONE of the "alternatives" is well enough
founded in knowledge of anatomy and physiology to really find the root of a
disease. Conventional medicine is.

Quoted message said:

Some of us don't believe in being co-dependent on pharmaceuticals,
to make it through the day. I know numerous people that live with so much

pain

Quoted message said:

every day, that in order to make it through the day, they have to keep
themselves doped up on pain killers to last. Is this any kind of life for
these people? When I've asked why doesn't your doctor look for the source

of

Quoted message said:

the pain, and do something about it...well, their doctor doesn't have

time, or

Quoted message said:

has been told to look for the "quick fix". These people are merely

surviving,

Quoted message said:

and not living because they are being "controlled".

When medical professionals can treat the cause of pain they do. Most of the
people who come to my emergency room in pain leave pain free, and not just
because we gave them drugs. Unfortunately, there are people with chronic
pain from incurable conditions. For them, long term medication is often an
important part of a pain management regime. The altie quacks can do no
better at "looking for the source of the pain."

Quoted message said:

This type of sadistic
behavior from doctors who allegedly took an oath when they became doctors

is

Quoted message said:

little more than just their friendly pharmaceutical company.

Sadistic behavior? Treating pain is sadistic?

Quoted message said:

Or what kind of
bonuses they've received over the years for their quick appointments?
For those that claim anti-semitism remarks about those of us that are not

of

Quoted message said:

your faith, perhaps you need explain how some of your people were

justified in

Quoted message said:

crucifying Christ, and why some of your people today are attempting to

crucify

Quoted message said:

those individuals have discovering alternative healing therapies that do

work.

"...some of your people were justified in crucifying Christ"? You
anti-Semites never let up, do you?

Quoted message said:

For those that have been harassed by individuals in this newsgroup that do

not

Quoted message said:

like alternative therapies, remember, the words spoken years ago, "forgive
them, for they do not know what they are doing." They are attempting to
crucify methods that work, because they do not understand, and for which

there

Quoted message said:

is no financial gain for themselves or their friends...
A question to those that continue to harass...is it THAT important for

you to

Quoted message said:

be sitting on what you have been led to believe is the "right side of the
fence", or would you rather back down, and THINK for yourself before

denouncing

Quoted message said:

therapies for which you have no personal experience, and for which others
have.....the choice is yours, but remember if you choose the wrong choice,

you

Quoted message said:

may find yourself in a situation later on in life, as the rest of us have,
when there is no form of conventional medicine that will work for you, and

then

Quoted message said:

what will you do then...die....or try an alternative?
I chose trying alternative therapies....what will you try?

Are you implying that YOU ("rest of us"😉 have found yourself dying, forsaken
by conventional medicine, and compelled to choose an alternative to save you
life? Tell us the story.

--Rich

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ever notice those that regularly cast stones in this newsgroup against
alternative medicine seem to have an agenda with those that have chosen

to

Quoted message said:

use

Quoted message said:

some form of alternative medicine?
It reminds me of a certain group of individuals, who stand to lose

financial

Quoted message said:

gain if the word gets out about alternative therapies and how they do

work.

Quoted message said:

Just like with Jesus, it is over "pure jealousy" of healing powers, that

made

Quoted message said:

them so insanely jealous. And for the fact, that conventional medicine

is not

Quoted message said:

getting every dollar. Is this not true, and is this not the real

reason,

Quoted message said:

some

Quoted message said:

of you are hell bent on attempting to destroy every individual that has

the

Quoted message said:

guts to step up to the plate, and state how alternative medicine has

helped

Quoted message said:

them?
Some of you are absolutely clueless about freedoms we have to choose

what

Quoted message said:

type

Quoted message said:

of medicine we use, and dislike those that use alternative medicine and

promote

Quoted message said:

healing which is to find the root of the medical problem instead of

masking it

Quoted message said:

with drugs. Some of us don't believe in being co-dependent on

pharmaceuticals,

Quoted message said:

to make it through the day. I know numerous people that live with so

much

Quoted message said:

pain

Quoted message said:

every day, that in order to make it through the day, they have to keep
themselves doped up on pain killers to last. Is this any kind of life

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

these people? When I've asked why doesn't your doctor look for the

source

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

the pain, and do something about it...well, their doctor doesn't have

time, or

Quoted message said:

has been told to look for the "quick fix". These people are merely

surviving,

Quoted message said:

and not living because they are being "controlled". This type of

sadistic

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

behavior from doctors who allegedly took an oath when they became

doctors

Quoted message said:

is

Quoted message said:

little more than just their friendly pharmaceutical company. Or what

kind

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

bonuses they've received over the years for their quick appointments?
For those that claim anti-semitism remarks about those of us that are

not

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

your faith, perhaps you need explain how some of your people were

justified in

Quoted message said:

crucifying Christ, and why some of your people today are attempting to

crucify

Quoted message said:

those individuals have discovering alternative healing therapies that do

work.

Quoted message said:

For those that have been harassed by individuals in this newsgroup that

do

Quoted message said:

not

Quoted message said:

like alternative therapies, remember, the words spoken years ago,

"forgive

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them, for they do not know what they are doing." They are attempting to
crucify methods that work, because they do not understand, and for which

there

Quoted message said:

is no financial gain for themselves or their friends...
A question to those that continue to harass...is it THAT important for

you to

Quoted message said:

be sitting on what you have been led to believe is the "right side of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fence", or would you rather back down, and THINK for yourself before

denouncing

Quoted message said:

therapies for which you have no personal experience, and for which

others

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have.....the choice is yours, but remember if you choose the wrong

choice,

Quoted message said:

you

Quoted message said:

may find yourself in a situation later on in life, as the rest of us

have,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

when there is no form of conventional medicine that will work for you,

and

Quoted message said:

then

Quoted message said:

what will you do then...die....or try an alternative?
I chose trying alternative therapies....what will you try?

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Quoted message said:

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Good post , well said .

Including the anti-semitism?

In article <[email hidden]>, DEBBEE1023 says...

Quoted message said:

Ever notice those that regularly cast stones in this newsgroup against
alternative medicine seem to have an agenda with those that have chosen to use
some form of alternative medicine?

Ever notice that those who are fighting against those bringing a semblence of
reason and fact to the health care issue seem to be unable to argue against
rational fact and science, and must instead stoop to cheap bigoted insults in
the place of a cogent argument?

Quoted message said:

It reminds me of a certain group of individuals, who stand to lose financial
gain if the word gets out about alternative therapies and how they do work.

It reminds me of a certain group of individuals who felt frustrated by their
failures in life, and began to consolidate power through the blame of others,
rather than focus on their own shortcomings.

Quoted message said:

Just like with Jesus, it is over "pure jealousy" of healing powers,

Healing powers? Are you claiming that alternative "doctors"... wait, scratch
that... let's call them "alternative medicine practicioners" perform "miracles"
on par with Jesus Christ?

Debbee, I believe the concerns with certain alternative medicines and practices
that the contrarians in this group have can be classified into at least two
basic categories:

1) Those herbal remedies or similar extractive preparations that are not
refined or otherwise scientifically processed, so that their dosages aren't
accurate, their properties cannot be adequately estimated, and their effects
cannot be accurately predicted;

2) Remedies or techniques which have no basis in scientific fact at all, but
are offered as miracle cures, and are simply ways in which charlatans can part
fools from their money.

Nobody doubts, for instance, that herbal remedies can have a physiological
impact on the human body. After all, many medicines are derived from various
chemical compounds found in herbs, plants, trees, etc, that have been
scientifically examined and processed in a manner to allow for accurate
dose-response relationships.

There's a big difference between a Bayer aspirin, and the bark of a white willow
tree.

There are, I am sure, more categories, but these two will suffice for now.

Quoted message said:

that made
them so insanely jealous. And for the fact, that conventional medicine is not
getting every dollar.

As a free marketeer, I wholly believe in more competition in the marketplace.
But I am not willing to allow dishonest charlatans to prey on the health of
foolish and sometimes desperate individuals.

Quoted message said:

Is this not true, and is this not the real reason, some
of you are hell bent on attempting to destroy every individual that has the
guts to step up to the plate, and state how alternative medicine has helped
them?

No, it is not true, and it is not the real reason that I am here.

Quoted message said:

Some of you are absolutely clueless about freedoms we have to choose
what type of medicine we use,

And some of you are absolutely clueless about the freedoms we have to state what
we think is wrong with your choices, and, more importantly, your root beliefs
about the nature of others.

Quoted message said:

and dislike those that use alternative medicine and promote
healing which is to find the root of the medical problem instead of masking it
with drugs.

Obviously, you don't know any physicians.

Quoted message said:

Some of us don't believe in being co-dependent on pharmaceuticals,
to make it through the day.

Fine, that's your choice. You can freely choose to take whatever risks that you
want with your own health and safety - as long as you are freely informed as to
the risks that you are going to undertake.

Unfortunately, with many alternative therapies, you are not privy to that
information.

Quoted message said:

I know numerous people that live with so much pain
every day, that in order to make it through the day, they have to keep
themselves doped up on pain killers to last. Is this any kind of life for
these people?

It's a better life than the desperation of wasting prodigious sums of money on
"miracle cures" that don't work, leaving them still in pain, poorer, and in some
cases, in worse physical shape as a result of the so-called "miracle".

Quoted message said:

When I've asked why doesn't your doctor look for the source of
the pain, and do something about it...well, their doctor doesn't have time, or
has been told to look for the "quick fix".

Doubtful. Not only are doctors trained specifically to find the root cause of
an ailment, under the HMO system the quickest route towards curing is to find
that root cause.

Quoted message said:

These people are merely surviving,
and not living because they are being "controlled". This type of sadistic
behavior from doctors who allegedly took an oath when they became doctors is
little more than just their friendly pharmaceutical company. Or what kind of
bonuses they've received over the years for their quick appointments?

Again, you obviously don't know any doctors.

Quoted message said:

For those that claim anti-semitism remarks about those of us that are not of
your faith, perhaps you need explain how some of your people were justified in
crucifying Christ,

Ah, and here we get to the root of Debbee's problem ailment: her belief that
the Jews of today are somehow to blame for the actions of a very few individuals
2000 years ago.

I don't justify the behavior of that group of Jews. Not only do I have no need
or desire to, _YOUR OWN FAITH_ makes it entirely unnecessary. If there's
anything the various Gospels tell us, it is that Christ had to die on the cross
in order for humanity to be saved. Without the crucifiction, there would have
been no resurrection, so the Gospels tell us, and therefore no miracle.

That means no Easter, no Holy Trinity, no Christianity (as a separate religion
from Judaism).

According to the New Testament, Jesus Christ had to die. So your anger at the
Jews is misplaced and misguided.

But thank you once again for demonstrating your bigoted ignorance.

(snip of the rest)

- Andrew Langer

Any posts by Andrew Langer are his own, written by him, for his own
enjoyment (and the education of others). Unless expressly stated,
they represent his own views, and not those of any other individuals
or entities. He is not, nor has he ever been, paid to post here.

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ever notice those that regularly cast stones in this newsgroup against
alternative medicine seem to have an agenda with those that have chosen

to

Quoted message said:

use

Quoted message said:

some form of alternative medicine?

Actually, the "agenda" is to defend the scientific method and rational
thought against the magical thinking and superstition of the alties. There
is as much "stone throwing" from the other side as from us debunkers and
more personal invective.

Quoted message said:

It reminds me of a certain group of individuals, who stand to lose

financial

Quoted message said:

gain if the word gets out about alternative therapies and how they do

work.

Contrary to the beliefs of a few here, NOBODY gets paid to post to this
newsgroup. And nothing posted here reaches a wide enough audience to

affect

Quoted message said:

the income of anybody.

Quoted message said:

Just like with Jesus, it is over "pure jealousy" of healing powers, that

made

Quoted message said:

them so insanely jealous.

What healing powers?

Quoted message said:

And for the fact, that conventional medicine is not
getting every dollar. Is this not true, and is this not the real

reason,

Quoted message said:

some

Quoted message said:

of you are hell bent on attempting to destroy every individual that has

the

Quoted message said:

guts to step up to the plate, and state how alternative medicine has

helped

Quoted message said:

them?

We don't want to "destroy" individuals. We just want to shoot down silly
ideas.

Quoted message said:

Some of you are absolutely clueless about freedoms we have to choose

what

Quoted message said:

type

Quoted message said:

of medicine we use, and dislike those that use alternative medicine and

promote

Quoted message said:

healing which is to find the root of the medical problem instead of

masking it

Quoted message said:

with drugs.

"Find the root of the medical problem"? One of the biggest problems with
altie quackery is that its practitioners do not do a proper diagnosis. If
they are selling chelation, everybody's problem is one that can be treated
with chelation; if they are chiropractors, everyone is diagnosed
"subluxations"; homeopathy ignores diagnosis entirely and treats the
symptoms specifically; etc. NONE of the "alternatives" is well enough
founded in knowledge of anatomy and physiology to really find the root of

a

Quoted message said:

disease. Conventional medicine is.

Your mistaken, please read 'Organon of Medicine', by Semuel Hahnemann and
'The Science of Homeopathy', by George Vithoulkas before you comment on
Homeopathy; remember a little knowledge is always dangerous.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some of us don't believe in being co-dependent on pharmaceuticals,
to make it through the day. I know numerous people that live with so

much

Quoted message said:

pain

Quoted message said:

every day, that in order to make it through the day, they have to keep
themselves doped up on pain killers to last. Is this any kind of life

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

these people? When I've asked why doesn't your doctor look for the

source

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

the pain, and do something about it...well, their doctor doesn't have

time, or

Quoted message said:

has been told to look for the "quick fix". These people are merely

surviving,

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and not living because they are being "controlled".

When medical professionals can treat the cause of pain they do. Most of

the

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people who come to my emergency room in pain leave pain free, and not just
because we gave them drugs. Unfortunately, there are people with chronic
pain from incurable conditions. For them, long term medication is often an
important part of a pain management regime. The altie quacks can do no
better at "looking for the source of the pain."

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This type of sadistic
behavior from doctors who allegedly took an oath when they became

doctors

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is

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little more than just their friendly pharmaceutical company.

Sadistic behavior? Treating pain is sadistic?

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Or what kind of
bonuses they've received over the years for their quick appointments?
For those that claim anti-semitism remarks about those of us that are

not

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of

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your faith, perhaps you need explain how some of your people were

justified in

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crucifying Christ, and why some of your people today are attempting to

crucify

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those individuals have discovering alternative healing therapies that do

work.

"...some of your people were justified in crucifying Christ"? You
anti-Semites never let up, do you?

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For those that have been harassed by individuals in this newsgroup that

do

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not

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like alternative therapies, remember, the words spoken years ago,

"forgive

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them, for they do not know what they are doing." They are attempting to
crucify methods that work, because they do not understand, and for which

there

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is no financial gain for themselves or their friends...
A question to those that continue to harass...is it THAT important for

you to

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be sitting on what you have been led to believe is the "right side of

the

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fence", or would you rather back down, and THINK for yourself before

denouncing

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therapies for which you have no personal experience, and for which

others

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have.....the choice is yours, but remember if you choose the wrong

choice,

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you

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may find yourself in a situation later on in life, as the rest of us

have,

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when there is no form of conventional medicine that will work for you,

and

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then

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what will you do then...die....or try an alternative?
I chose trying alternative therapies....what will you try?

Are you implying that YOU ("rest of us"😉 have found yourself dying,

forsaken

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by conventional medicine, and compelled to choose an alternative to save

you

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life? Tell us the story.

--Rich

<< Actually, the "agenda" is to defend the scientific method and rational
thought against the magical thinking and superstition of the alties. There
is as much "stone throwing" from the other side as from us debunkers and
more personal invective.

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What "scientific method" are you referring to, as with alternative medicine
there are many things that cannot be proven using scientific evidence...for
exampe, read this dude's comments about some of the specific arguments that
several of you have made here that hold very little substance....

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:AexkRPpgFgMJ:www.naturalhealing.com.h
k/dy_art03.htm+throwing+stones+at+alternative+medicine&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

<< Contrary to the beliefs of a few here, NOBODY gets paid to post to this
newsgroup. And nothing posted here reaches a wide enough audience to affect
the income of anybody. >>

Wow, that really surprises me. Then, why are a number of individuals so quick
to shoot down alternative therapies? What would be the reason behind doing
this, and why not just do something else with their time? They don't care for
alternative therapies, and made reference to their position over and over and
over again....Perhaps they are trying to make a name for themselves using
Usenet newsgroups, then?

<<
What healing powers? >>

Obviously, you haven't read the New Testament lately.

<<
We don't want to "destroy" individuals. We just want to shoot down silly
ideas. >>

Wow, that's "news" to me, and where do you get off stating that these ideas are
silly in the first place? Tell what personal experience you have in all of
alternative medicine...I know there are people here that have agendas claiming
that a loved one died from using an alternative form of medicine. However, it
is my understanding that people were probably going to die anyways, and this
was their last chance at finding something that could work. So instead of
admitting this, they have gone out of their way to try to destroy alternative
therapies. They have hidden agendas, one could say.

<< "Find the root of the medical problem"? One of the biggest problems with
altie quackery is that its practitioners do not do a proper diagnosis. >>

Wow, that's such an inaccurate statement if I ever heard one. You are making a
claim about all alternative practictioners, and thinking that all of them may
be like this. You are completely "off base".

<< NONE of the "alternatives" is well enough
founded in knowledge of anatomy and physiology to really find the root of a
disease. Conventional medicine is.

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Conventional medicine is not. You are making a blanket statement and
attempting to "cover" all bases. How many people do you think go to a doctor,
and are properly diagnosed 100% of the time on their first visit with the right
drugs or therapies for the job, and they are mysteriously healed immediately?

Give me a break....this is so far off base that it is hilarious...

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When medical professionals can treat the cause of pain they do. Most of the

people who come to my emergency room in pain leave pain free, and not just
because we gave them drugs. Unfortunately, there are people with chronic
pain from incurable conditions. For them, long term medication is often an
important part of a pain management regime. The altie quacks can do no
better at "looking for the source of the pain."<<<

Do tell what your emergency room does that others in this country do not do,
besides load people up with either pain shots or drugs, so when they leave,
they live pain free? I want to know what your emergency room does, so perhaps
your emergency room can serve as a model for others in the country that do not
practice the same methods as yours.
If there are people with chronic pain from incurable conditions...why isn't
conventional medicine working on those problems? Do you even understand what
you are stating here? You've just admitted that conventional medicine cannot
help everyone.
Do you even know why there is a problem with drug abuse in this country? It
starts much of the time with people being so doped up on pain killers, and
having to get more when the doses don't work for them. Case in point...I have
a friend with arthritis, she was being given bucoo doses of pain pills to get
rid of the pain...and lost her job because she was "dopey" all of the
time...she decided to go the alternative route; cleaning up her eating habits,
drinking more water, got into chiropractic care, and got off of the drugs...and
her arthritis pain is gone...
In fact, more and more conventional doctors are looking at alternative sources
for helping people...
<< Sadistic behavior? Treating pain is sadistic? >>
Keeping people doped up is sadistic, and not looking to find what is really
wrong with an individual, whether it be stress, depression, or an actual
physical problem that could be corrected by surgery, or cleaning up one's
lifestyle....keeping someone on pain pills 24/7 means they are merely
"surviving", and not "living"....

<<
"...some of your people were justified in crucifying Christ"? You
anti-Semites never let up, do you? >>

You again, as usual with this group have missed the point...check out the
wording..."some of your people".....did some of your ancestors, not crucify
Christ?

<< Are you implying that YOU ("rest of us"😉 have found yourself dying, forsaken
by conventional medicine, and compelled to choose an alternative to save you
life? Tell us the story. >>
There wasn't a "magic pill" or therapy issued by conventional medicine for
what ailed me. Conventional doctors didn't know what to do for me, and
suggested alternative medicine as another source. My conventional doctor
worked with my complementary physician, and both doctors are pleased at my
success story....

"If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester).

<< Ever notice that those who are fighting against those bringing a semblence
of
reason and fact to the health care issue seem to be unable to argue against
rational fact and science, and must instead stoop to cheap bigoted insults in
the place of a cogent argument? >>

Stop throwing stones, Andrew...your ignorance is showing...

<< It reminds me of a certain group of individuals who felt frustrated by their
failures in life, and began to consolidate power through the blame of others,
rather than focus on their own shortcomings. >>

I suppose you are referring to yourself, right? If so, I agree 100%.

<<
As a free marketeer, I wholly believe in more competition in the marketplace.
But I am not willing to allow dishonest charlatans to prey on the health of
foolish and sometimes desperate individuals. >>

Worry about yourself, and let the rest of us worry about ourselves...this isn't
your job....because every individual is unique, and every one's body is
different, just like with conventional medicine, what may work for some, does
not work for everyone...

<<
And some of you are absolutely clueless about the freedoms we have to state
what
we think is wrong with your choices, and, more importantly, your root beliefs
about the nature of others.

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see last answer...worry about yourself...not anyone else...it isn't your job...

<<
Obviously, you don't know any physicians.

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I do....Christian ones...

<< Fine, that's your choice. You can freely choose to take whatever risks that
you
want with your own health and safety - as long as you are freely informed as to
the risks that you are going to undertake. >>

I have been all along...not only have I been informed by alternative
practitioners, but by conventional practictioners, and then I've researched on
my own. That's why I took myself off of prednisone, because the conventional
doctor, failed to give me all of the risks...and when it wasn't working, she
upped the dosage, and made me very ill...and told me I had to take that
amount...and I told her to go hell...and took myself off of it, and I got
better...

<< Unfortunately, with many alternative therapies, you are not privy to that
information. >>

Anyone can get information about anything...

<< It's a better life than the desperation of wasting prodigious sums of money
on
"miracle cures" that don't work, leaving them still in pain, poorer, and in
some
cases, in worse physical shape as a result of the so-called "miracle". >>

And who are you to judge if this stuff works or not? Did something tell you
that it doesn't work, and so therefore you believe that it doesn't work for
everyone?

<< Doubtful. Not only are doctors trained specifically to find the root cause
of
an ailment, under the HMO system the quickest route towards curing is to find
that root cause. >>

I do not believe you....

<<
Again, you obviously don't know any doctors. >>

Try again, PAL....that I do....obviously, you have gotten wrong
information...some of us are well informed.

<<
Ah, and here we get to the root of Debbee's problem ailment: her belief that
the Jews of today are somehow to blame for the actions of a very few
individuals
2000 years ago. >>

And here we get to the root of your problem....every time anyone makes a
statement such as I have, you yell anti-semitic....who are you fooling??

<<
According to the New Testament, Jesus Christ had to die. So your anger at the
Jews is misplaced and misguided. >>

I'm not angry...you've again, missed the point...

<< But thank you once again for demonstrating your bigoted ignorance. >>

Thank you for your comments....you've again demonstrated, one of the very
reasons I dislike you as much as I do....

"If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester).

"DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Ever notice those that regularly cast stones in this newsgroup against
alternative medicine seem to have an agenda with those that have chosen to

use

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some form of alternative medicine?

What alternatives are being used for diabetes these days? I have an
off-line male friend who watches his blood-sugar, takes his insulin and
still feels ill most of the time. He may also lose one foot. Any
suggestions? I'll print them out and pass them along to him. Or can you
recommend a Website?

Quoted message said:

It reminds me of a certain group of individuals, who stand to lose

financial

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gain if the word gets out about alternative therapies and how they do

work.

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Just like with Jesus, it is over "pure jealousy" of healing powers, that

made

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them so insanely jealous.

But they did have alternative medications back in Jesus time, even before -
did they not? If so they were curing all manner of ailments and disease and
Jesus would have made no difference with HIS cures.

And for the fact, that conventional medicine is not

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getting every dollar. Is this not true, and is this not the real reason,

some

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of you are hell bent on attempting to destroy every individual that has

the

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guts to step up to the plate, and state how alternative medicine has

helped

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them?

I think most people are skeptical because anyone can make any claim they so
chose. That doesn't make it true. I can come here and claim raw onions
cured my pneumonia - that doesn't make it true. I may never have had
pneumonia at all. Perhaps it was just a bad chest cold. Why should anyone
believe what someone "claims" where health and life are at stake? Claiming
something helped them is one thing, but it looks like some people claim it
CURED them of illnesses/disease they were never really diagnosed as having.
Also, keep in mind many illnesses take care of themselves given time. Any
herb/cure/cleanse taken or not taken may have had no effect at all in the
outcome.

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Some of you are absolutely clueless about freedoms we have to choose what

type

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of medicine we use, and dislike those that use alternative medicine and

promote

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healing which is to find the root of the medical problem instead of

masking it

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with drugs. Some of us don't believe in being co-dependent on

pharmaceuticals,

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to make it through the day.

But many who believe in alt health issues DO indeed take a lot of products
to make it through their day. And I'm talking about large numbers of
vitamins and minerals, green tea, any assortment of herbs etc.

I know numerous people that live with so much pain

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every day, that in order to make it through the day, they have to keep
themselves doped up on pain killers to last. Is this any kind of life for
these people?

What would their alternative be? What natural pain killers are out there?
Not everyone has access to willow trees to make their own natural
Aspirin/painkiller.

When I've asked why doesn't your doctor look for the source of

Quoted message said:

the pain, and do something about it...well, their doctor doesn't have

time, or

Quoted message said:

has been told to look for the "quick fix". These people are merely

surviving,

Quoted message said:

and not living because they are being "controlled". This type of sadistic
behavior from doctors who allegedly took an oath when they became doctors

is

Quoted message said:

little more than just their friendly pharmaceutical company.

What does the Dr's time have to do with it? The Dr can send the person for
tests of various kinds to try and locate the source of the pain.

Or what kind of

Quoted message said:

bonuses they've received over the years for their quick appointments?
For those that claim anti-semitism remarks about those of us that are not

of

Quoted message said:

your faith, perhaps you need explain how some of your people were

justified in

Quoted message said:

crucifying Christ, and why some of your people today are attempting to

crucify

Quoted message said:

those individuals have discovering alternative healing therapies that do

work.

This is absurd and smacks of anti-semitism. What has Christ's death got to
do with our Dr's today and their religious beliefs? Christ died over 2000
years ago. This shouldn't even be mentioned on this NG.

Quoted message said:

For those that have been harassed by individuals in this newsgroup that do

not

Quoted message said:

like alternative therapies, remember, the words spoken years ago, "forgive
them, for they do not know what they are doing." They are attempting to
crucify methods that work,

Please enlighten me as to which alt methods work that are being hidden from
the rest of us. You can be brief. I truly want to know.

because they do not understand, and for which there

Quoted message said:

is no financial gain for themselves or their friends...
A question to those that continue to harass...is it THAT important for

you to

Quoted message said:

be sitting on what you have been led to believe is the "right side of the
fence", or would you rather back down, and THINK for yourself before

denouncing

Quoted message said:

therapies for which you have no personal experience, and for which others
have.....

And if the proof is there how can Dr's/medical schools/researchers etc. deny
it? I'm assuming there is proof and not simply anecdotal evidence or simply
personal claims (see above.)

the choice is yours, but remember if you choose the wrong choice, you

Quoted message said:

may find yourself in a situation later on in life, as the rest of us have,
when there is no form of conventional medicine that will work for you, and

then

Quoted message said:

what will you do then...die....or try an alternative?
I chose trying alternative therapies....what will you try?

What do you recommend my friend do, or look into re' his diabetes and
possible loss of his foot? Also what about my hypothyroidism? What other
alternatives are there besides the Levoxyl?

Kim

"DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:20040307145254.20632.00001103@mb->

Quoted message said:

Conventional medicine is not. You are making a blanket statement and
attempting to "cover" all bases. How many people do you think go to a

doctor,

Quoted message said:

and are properly diagnosed 100% of the time on their first visit with the

right

Quoted message said:

drugs or therapies for the job, and they are mysteriously healed

immediately?

Here I agree with YOU. It took many Dr's before my endometriosis was
discovered. Everything was diagnosed from frigidity to ovarian cysts and
all the Dr's were wrong. I did the Dr to Dr routine as so many others have
before me. I understand the frustration and anger some people feel for
conventional medical Drs. In desperation I finally went to a mainline
teaching hospital in my state (my Ins allowed this as they were losing money
with all the Dr's I was seeing) and there the REAL problem was finally
discovered. Why did it take so long? When I developed hypothyroidism with
all the classic symptoms I had the SAME problem. This time I dropped Dr #1
quickly and went to Dr #2 - and he got it right! I was lucky that #2 was
knowledgeable enough to suspect the problem right off the bat. #1 never
listened to hear all the symptoms I was having. I thought I would have to
go from Dr to Dr all over again. But what about all those
gynecologists???? As far as I know there is no alt treatment for
endometriosis.

My conventional doctor

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worked with my complementary physician, and both doctors are pleased at my
success story....

Which unfortunately I have not heard.

Kim