cross frames & integrated headsets?

email hidden said:

Quoted message said:

Are you saying that intregrated headsets don't
actually function? If so, what is wrong with them?

No, I have no experience with them.

!!!!!!

JT

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email hidden said:

I was simply expecting cross
equipment to emphasize proven reliability/
durability and therefore use
"traditional" solutions.

Cross races are 1 hour long or less and top riders almost always
havespare bikes, and sometimes change bikes every lap. Cross bikes
are among the most innovative in the racing world.

Sure, the equipment has to work and be reliable, but it's often
cutting edge stuff.

JT

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Derk said:

M-gineering said:

6% + VAT

Are you sure? What about the VAT? Can one get the VAT back that has been
added to the price that one pay's abroad or is it: price of article + 6% +
Dutch VAT e.g. ? That's what I understand and in that case you can add more
than 20% to the original amount.

Greetings, Derk

I ordered some parts from the USA recently and had to pay about 20% VAT
(omzetbelasting) and about 5% customservice (invoerrechten), and the
parts were still cheaper than when ordered in the EU, and delivered
within a week. Amazing..

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Lou Holtman said:

I ordered some parts from the USA recently and had to pay about 20% VAT
(omzetbelasting) and about 5% customservice (invoerrechten), and the
parts were still cheaper than when ordered in the EU, and delivered
within a week. Amazing..

I think a 25% "price increase" is significant. Something that sounds like a
bargain is suddenly less interesting from a financial point of view. On top
of that, there's the problem of transport costs. Whenever you buy a part
that fails and isn't guaranteed by a Dutch importer, you'll be forced to
send it back and forth overseas at sigificant cost. When you take that into
account, it's not that interesting any more. It'a a pity: I'm a big fan of
Titanium frames.

When do you plan a vacation in the US, Lou? ;-)

Greetings, Derk

Antti Salonen said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Chris King has led a charge against the integrated design, asserting
that it opens up the possibility of wrecking a frame because the bearing
could move against the head tube: in an integrated design, the races are
in press-fit contact with the head tube.

I'm wondering though how real this problem is in practice. After all,
we've been hearing these warnings for years, but integrated headsets
have been on the market for five years already. If there is a real
problem, no doubt the shops would've already seen the results. There
are several people running or working at bike shops in this newsgroups,
but I don't remember reading a single report.

I'm not saying it's necessarily a smart design, but telling everybody to
stay away from otherwise nice and competetively priced frames because of
integrated headsets might be excessive.

-as

Have a look at:

http://photobucket.com/albums/a158/kwalters1532

for a Trek/Lemond ti road frame with integrated headset after 7000
miles. Ken.

kwalters said:

Antti Salonen said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Chris King has led a charge against the integrated design, asserting
that it opens up the possibility of wrecking a frame because the
bearing could move against the head tube: in an integrated design,
the races are in press-fit contact with the head tube.

I'm wondering though how real this problem is in practice. After all,
we've been hearing these warnings for years, but integrated headsets
have been on the market for five years already. If there is a real
problem, no doubt the shops would've already seen the results. There
are several people running or working at bike shops in this newsgroups,
but I don't remember reading a single report.
I'm not saying it's necessarily a smart design, but telling everybody to
stay away from otherwise nice and competetively priced frames because of
integrated headsets might be excessive.
-as

Have a look at:

http://photobucket.com/albums/a158/kwalters1532

for a Trek/Lemond ti road frame with integrated headset after 7000
miles. Ken.

That isn't proof of excess wear, but of off-centered milling. I'd bet
my eye-teeth that that 1/2mm difference existed before the 7K miles started.

That said, wear will occur in these headsets, fore and aft on the
bevelled (angular contact) surfaces.

Robin Hubert

Robin Hubert said:

kwalters said:

Antti Salonen said:

Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Chris King has led a charge against the integrated design, asserting
> that it opens up the possibility of wrecking a frame because the
> bearing could move against the head tube: in an integrated design,
> the races are in press-fit contact with the head tube.

I'm wondering though how real this problem is in practice. After all,
we've been hearing these warnings for years, but integrated headsets
have been on the market for five years already. If there is a real
problem, no doubt the shops would've already seen the results. There
are several people running or working at bike shops in this newsgroups,
but I don't remember reading a single report.
I'm not saying it's necessarily a smart design, but telling everybody to
stay away from otherwise nice and competetively priced frames because of
integrated headsets might be excessive.
-as

Have a look at:

http://photobucket.com/albums/a158/kwalters1532

for a Trek/Lemond ti road frame with integrated headset after 7000
miles. Ken.

That isn't proof of excess wear, but of off-centered milling. I'd bet
my eye-teeth that that 1/2mm difference existed before the 7K miles
started.

That said, wear will occur in these headsets, fore and aft on the
bevelled (angular contact) surfaces.

Robin Hubert

I agree completely, so does Cane Creek (maker of the headset), and
several local shops. Unfortunately, Trek doesn't.

I have another picture of a similar frame but with concentric milling;
it shows noticeable wear, but I don't know the mileage on the frame.

Ken

Ken

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I've recently been trying to find and build my first cross bike, and I
am surprised that so many cross frames use integrated headsets. This
seems counter-intuitive to me: cross = function takes precedence over
fashion, while IS = fashion over function. Is there a good technical
reason for using integrated headsets in cross frames?

So that you replace the entire frame when the HS goes bad???
---------------
Alex