Cross Country Ski Boot sources

"NC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After trying the cross country ski shops in the UK
(Aviemore*2, Braemar, Ilkley), I find that nobody carries
traditional leather touring boots and does not plan to get
stock in the future. I've done some Google searching for
retailers with no success.

//snipped//

Can anyone suggest a supplier with stock ? I guess its
likely to be in Norway, so a shop which can discuss things
in English and/or mail order to the UK would be useful.

//snipped//

- Nigel

Sorry I can only be of limited help. I am discouraged by
your report that leather XC boots have disappeared from UK.
I tried some plastic boots some years ago (Scarpa T3) and
found them very uncomfortable and rather heavy. Fortunately
my leather Alico's have plenty of life left.

I know that there are some who have used plastic boots on
extended tours. But I am sure that there are many who prefer
leather boots. I cannot recall seeing many plastic boots in
use in Scandinavia.

One of the main sports retailers in Oslo is SportCo AS,
and you would have no difficulty in talking things over
in English:

SportCo AS Olav V's g 6 0161 OSLO Tlf 22 42 29 07 Fax
22 42 11 02

[What is confusing is that one of the listings refers to
this business as Baisse AS].

Hope you manage to get some decent leather boots.

--
Alan Law

NC said:

This is a bit of a problem as I really don't want to go to
plastic touring boots; I'm of the view they are second-
best and too-heavy for what I want to do, and would force
me to wider skis, etc...

Depends what you want to do. I use traditional Nordic
tourers with standard 3 pin bindings (Dynastar Montagna Plus
now my old Kahru XCDs are relegated to "rock ski" use), as
does my gf (Morotto Jokyllkyrkja or however it's spelt), and
we both use platic boots. We did about 100 miles in March,
starting from Finse and looping up to Bjordalsbu and back,
and I don't think either of us wished we were in something
lighter. I use the original Scarpa T3s (about the same as
current T4s) and Roos uses Crispi CX-Ts. Garmonty Excursion
would be fine too if we had Garmont-shaped feet, but we
don't! Yes, they are heavier than a trad leather boot, but
OTOH you get boots you can dry in front of a stove without
buggering them up, built in hut boots and a great deal more
downhill control (and even on stickmarked DNT routes there
are times when that is /very/ useful to have). They also
don't turn into carpet slippers over time and should be
easier to resole.

So there's nothing to force you onto wide skis, and no
reason not be doing traditional touring with them if you get
the lighter models.

Quoted message said:

The sort of boot I'm after are like the Garmont Tour, 75mm
binding. Suitable for off-track touring on skis like
Madshus Gilttertind or Fisher Europa 99. Garmont list them
on their website, but it seems that importers/retailers
feel there is insufficient demand to be worth stocking.

You may be better off looking at the NNN BC bindings and
associated boots. The binding is designed for the light end
of steel edged ski touring and the boots are accordingly
light and comfortable. You're probably just as snookered
finding much of a selection in the UK though :-(

Quoted message said:

Can anyone suggest a supplier with stock ? I guess its
likely to be in Norway, so a shop which can discuss things
in English and/or mail order to the UK would be useful.

Roos got her placcies in the NL, at a palce called Bever
which has branches in (at least) Den Haag and Amsterdam.
They also had a fairly good selection of traditional leather
touring boots. Website is outdoor-net.nloutdoor-net.nlOpen ↗ but
it's in Dutch.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

NC said:

After trying the cross country ski shops in the UK
(Aviemore*2, Braemar, Ilkley), I find that nobody carries
traditional leather touring boots and does not plan to get
stock in the future. I've done some Google searching for
retailers with no success.

That's strange. I was at Base Camp in Ilkley a few weeks ago
and I'm sure they had leather boots then (the standard Vibram-
soled ones that look like walking boots). Maybe I mi-saw and
they were in fact walking boots...

Alan Law said:

Sorry I can only be of limited help. I am discouraged by
your report that leather XC boots have disappeared from
UK. I tried some plastic boots some years ago (Scarpa T3)
and found them very uncomfortable and rather heavy.
Fortunately my leather Alico's have plenty of life left.

More about foot shape than the relative merits of leather
and plastic, I'd say. I gave away my Alico Super Teles
because they'd always skin my heels by the end of a tour,
but my T3s fit me superbly and have never given me
blisters or discomfort at all. So I can go further and
control the downhills better too. Fit is more important
than material IMHO.

Quoted message said:

I know that there are some who have used plastic boots on
extended tours. But I am sure that there are many who
prefer leather boots. I cannot recall seeing many plastic
boots in use in Scandinavia.

There are lots, but usually worn by Brits! ;-) Leathers work
well if they fit, but the market is quite conservative too.
I don't see many recumbent bikes, but I much prefer riding
mine to my old upright, even if "received wisdom" of the
populace has me in a great minority.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Peter Clinch said:

NC said:

The sort of boot I'm after are like the Garmont Tour,
75mm binding. Suitable for off-track touring on skis like
Madshus Gilttertind or Fisher Europa 99. Garmont list
them on their website, but it seems that
importers/retailers feel there is insufficient demand to
be worth stocking.

You may be better off looking at the NNN BC bindings and
associated boots. The binding is designed for the light
end of steel edged ski touring and the boots are
accordingly light and comfortable. You're probably just as
snookered finding much of a selection in the UK though :-(

Yup. NNN-BC or 75mm is the same in the UK. Somewhere between
the shops and the importers, there is a decision that the
market isn't big enough to be worth supplying anything.
(Though I haven't tried Glenmore lodge, Chris Townsend
suggested them to me, and I will call them this week).

Choice in the UK appears to be track-ski boots or plastics,
with, I think the Garmont Excursion being the lightest
plastic. Skis are also polarising, with one shop telling me
they won't be carrying the ski I was planning to order.
There is a certain style there, as its the model they
suggested to me, without any prompting, a few weeks
previously before they'd finally decided on boot stocks for
the coming year :-). However, there is still at least one
outlet for the skis who has quite keen prices.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can anyone suggest a supplier with stock ? I guess its
likely to be in Norway, so a shop which can discuss
things in English and/or mail order to the UK would be
useful.

Roos got her placcies in the NL, at a palce called Bever
which has branches in (at least) Den Haag and Amsterdam.
They also had a fairly good selection of traditional
leather touring boots. Website is outdoor-outdoor-Open ↗
net.nl/ but it's in Dutch.

Thanks. Not as far as Norway for me.

- Nigel

--
NC - Webmaster for 2mm.org.uk2mm.org.ukOpen ↗ Replies to
newsgroup postings to the newsgroup please.

In message <[email hidden]>, NC
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Somewhere between the shops and the importers, there is a
decision that the market isn't big enough to be worth
supplying anything. (Though I haven't tried Glenmore lodge,
Chris Townsend suggested them to me, and I will call them
this week).

Glenmore Shop and Cafe. Glenmore Lodge don't sell gear.

Alan Law said:

Quoted message said:

After trying the cross country ski shops in the UK
(Aviemore*2, Braemar, Ilkley), I find that nobody carries
traditional leather touring boots and does not plan to
get stock in the future. I've done some Google searching
for retailers with no success.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can anyone suggest a supplier with stock ?

Quoted message said:

Sorry I can only be of limited help. I am discouraged by
your report that leather XC boots have disappeared from
UK. I tried some plastic boots some years ago (Scarpa T3)
and found them very uncomfortable and rather heavy.
Fortunately my leather Alico's have plenty of life left.

Glenmore Cafe and Shop have Alico boots, and have a pair of
Blaize in the post to me. If they fit my feet, great, if
not, they will accept them back for refund.

Thanks to Chris Townsend for the suggestion, I wasn't aware
that the Glenmore shop stocked cross country gear.

- Nigel

--
NC - Webmaster for 2mm.org.uk2mm.org.ukOpen ↗ Replies to
newsgroup postings to the newsgroup please.

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alan Law said:

Sorry I can only be of limited help. I am discouraged by
your report

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

leather XC boots have disappeared from UK. I tried some
plastic boots

some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

years ago (Scarpa T3) and found them very uncomfortable
and rather

heavy.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Fortunately my leather Alico's have plenty of life left.

More about foot shape than the relative merits of leather
and plastic, I'd say. I gave away my Alico Super Teles
because they'd always skin my heels by the end of a tour,
but my T3s fit me superbly and have never given me
blisters or discomfort at all. So I can go further and
control the downhills better too. Fit is more important
than material IMHO.

Fit is surely critical, but I think there is more to it.

Plastic boots seem stiffer (which may be one reason why
leather and fabric prevail in the domain of walking boots).
And plastic boots are much heavier. I can vouch for the
following figures (all for vibram-soled 75 mm nordic norm)---
Meindl (leather) 1825 g; Asolo Snowfield (leather) 2045 g;
Alico (leather) 2330 g; Scarpa T3 (plastic) 2875 g. It is
possible that Scarpa have managed to cut the weight in more
recent endeavours. Some may find nearly 3 kg acceptable.
Personally, I find such a weight quite excessive.

--
Alan Law

Peter Clinch said:

Alan Law said:

Sorry I can only be of limited help. I am discouraged by
your report that leather XC boots have disappeared from
UK. I tried some plastic boots some years ago (Scarpa T3)
and found them very uncomfortable and rather heavy.
Fortunately my leather Alico's have plenty of life left.

More about foot shape than the relative merits of leather
and plastic, I'd say. I gave away my Alico Super Teles
because they'd always skin my heels by the end of a tour,
but my T3s fit me superbly and have never given me
blisters or discomfort at all. So I can go further and
control the downhills better too. Fit is more important
than material IMHO.

I think there's a weight trade-off in there as well. I can
understand the "turn & downhill better" argument for plastic
(and the hut drying issues). But weight comes into it. The
same in walking boots where I'll drift towards lighter
weight over durability on severe rocky terrain.

So far I've always hired ski gear. I've usually skied on
very light "forest" touring boots; a bit too flexi for
decent control. Last year in an "evaluate gear to work out
if you should buy" holiday I tried Garmont Tour's on
Dynastar Montagne Plus. The boots were great, but getting
towards the limit of what I wanted for weights on my legs. I
was OK skating along a track for a few km at the end of the
week which is one measure of weight effect on fatigue. The
skis were a little too slow in turning for ideal. I came
away with a recommendation of Madshus Glittertind as being
the right one for me - a little softer on the turning - and
can see the logic of the ski selection.

So I came away thinking I knew what was correct for me; a
common (so I thought!) leather boot and a readily available
ski. Getting the ski is no problem, RMA-sports will arrange
a pair at a good price, either delivered to the UK or to an
address in Norway.

Boots are a problem I hadn't anticipated. I'm trying to find
a retailer with something, or planning to hold stock in the
early winter, perhaps requiring a trip to another European
country. The other option will be to find someone who will
hire plastic touring boots next year (Garmont Excursions
seem to be the lightest around, but still fairly heavy at
around 2.6kg/pair) because I'm not purchasing something so
different to anything I've skied upon without trying them
for a few days.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I know that there are some who have used plastic boots on
extended tours. But I am sure that there are many who
prefer leather boots. I cannot recall seeing many plastic
boots in use in Scandinavia.

There are lots, but usually worn by Brits! ;-) Leathers
work well if they fit, but the market is quite
conservative too. I don't see many recumbent bikes, but I
much prefer riding mine to my old upright, even if
"received wisdom" of the populace has me in a great
minority.

Like wierd bikes there is a trade-off - whether everyone
else understands what you have when there is a problem and
can sort out a repair/spare. I'm not sure of the relative
position of 75mm/3-pin vs NNN-BC bindings. It would seem
that the NNN-BC is gaining ground slowly, though its not
seen that often. But, its hard to evaluate. Nearly everyone
I see in Norway is either British or is skiing on track skis
in cut tracks.

- Nigel

--
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newsgroup postings to the newsgroup please.

Alan Law said:

Fit is surely critical, but I think there is more to it.

All other things being equal, there is more to it. But all
other things generally aren't.

Quoted message said:

Plastic boots seem stiffer

They are, but the bellows on a plastic touring boot will
often flex around as easily as thick leather on the top of a
classic boot, and it will always flex predictably which the
leather won't. Lateral stiffness there's no competition, but
then lateral stiffness is generally a Good Thing on skis and
I certainly prefer turning my skis to twisting my boots
inside the bindings. So the overall stiffness is less
important than them stiff where it helps and flexible where
it helps, rather than more or less the same all over.

Quoted message said:

And plastic boots are much heavier.

Granted, but you do get something for your weight: more
warmth, more waterproofing, easier drying, vastly better
downhill control, longer life, and more constant performance
during that longer life.

Quoted message said:

I can vouch for the following figures (all for vibram-
soled 75 mm nordic norm)---Meindl (leather) 1825 g; Asolo
Snowfield (leather) 2045 g; Alico (leather) 2330 g; Scarpa
T3 (plastic) 2875 g. It is possible that Scarpa have
managed to cut the weight in more recent endeavours.

2750g for the T4, 2790g for the Garmont Excursion. Yes,
they're heavier, no doubt about it.

Quoted message said:

Some may find nearly 3 kg acceptable. Personally, I find
such a weight quite excessive.

Based on the last 100 miles I did in my plastics, I don't.
Of course, you're not actually picking them up that much on
a tour, more sliding them forwards.

But as I suggested before, if you really want light systems
then you're very probably better off with NNN BC than 3 pin
Nordic Norm duckbills. Alpina make NNN BC boots perfectly
suited to Nordic touring at substantially less weight than
the 1800g you quote for "light" Meindls. And I can put my
T3s onto something chunkier than my touring skis and do far
more serious hills on them without spending so much time
doing face plants.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Chris Townsend said:

In message <[email hidden]>, NC
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Somewhere between the shops and the importers, there is a
decision that the market isn't big enough to be worth
supplying anything. (Though I haven't tried Glenmore
lodge, Chris Townsend suggested them to me, and I will
call them this week).

Glenmore Shop and Cafe. Glenmore Lodge don't sell gear.

My mistake (I should learn to use cut and paste :-) )

I have the right one written down for ringing up.

- Nigel

--
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newsgroup postings to the newsgroup please.

NC said:

Boots are a problem I hadn't anticipated. I'm trying to
find a retailer with something

And the UK situation is currently going from bad to worse
:-( Someone told me that Mountain Spirit are winding up and
I also heard that Mountain Supplies are in a degree of
trouble. And even before current difficulties they were
following the trend to telemark == mucho macho heavy
downhill rather than touring :-(

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

NC said:

I'm not sure of the relative position of 75mm/3-pin vs NNN-
BC bindings. It would seem that the NNN-BC is gaining
ground slowly, though its not seen that often.

Not much in the company of Brits, 'cause they're practically
impossible to get, as we've been saying... :-(

But my impression is that in N. America it's a far more
widespread system for backcountry without mountains. Don't
know about continental Europe though.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Peter Clinch said:

NC said:

Boots are a problem I hadn't anticipated. I'm trying to
find a retailer with something

See other posting. Glenmore Shop has some Alico boots.

Quoted message said:

And the UK situation is currently going from bad to worse
:-( Someone told me that Mountain Spirit are winding up

I have no information suggesting Mountain Spirit are winding
up. I spoke to them in early May, when they were pessimistic
about obtaining leather boots in the autumn/winter (citing
low sales volumes, resulting in importers not being
interesting in supplying the small orders from retailers).
They suggested I ring them again in the early autumn to see
if they had managed to secure any supplies.

Quoted message said:

and I also heard that Mountain Supplies are in a degree of
trouble.

In May, I was told by staff at Mountain Supplies (Braemar
branch) that they were in financial administration (not sure
if the receiver was appointed, or if the process in Scotland
may be different to England & Wales). They expressed a hope
that some of the shop managers within Mountain Supplies
would acquire the Braemar and Aviemore shops, and re-open to
something "pre Mountain Supplies".

Quoted message said:

And even before current difficulties they
were following the trend to telemark ==
mucho macho heavy downhill rather than
touring :-(

Yes, I've noticed a distinct change in emphasis in the
Mountain Supplies catelogue over the last few years. The
trend to "downhill telemark" might be a problem for the
Braemar shop, even if it does re-establish itself with
extensive ski stocks. I understand the local ski lifts have
closed down this year.

- Nigel

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NC said:

The trend to "downhill telemark" might be a problem for
the Braemar shop, even if it does re-establish itself with
extensive ski stocks. I understand the local ski lifts
have closed down this year.

Glenshee was put up for sale earlier this year, but not
actually closed. Closing date for offers is actually
tomorrow. See thecourier.co.uk18Open ↗
/newsstory6034036t0.asp

Mountain Spirit winding up was told to me a week or so ago
by someone who'd visited recently, but I haven't had it
confirmed. Shame if it's true, it was a good shop.

If the Alicos don't fit then Roos noticed a load of 2nd hand
leather tele boots in the DNT magazine's small ads
yesterday. My old Alicos were beautifully made but
unfortunately too narrow for me at the heel, and tended to
skin me. Their footbeds used to be absolutely shocking so
worth checking out and swapping for something better if
that's still the case.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Peter Clinch said:

NC wrote: If the Alicos don't fit then Roos noticed a load
of 2nd hand leather tele boots in the DNT magazine's small
ads yesterday.

Thanks. I'll pursue that if the Alicos don't fit.

Quoted message said:

My old Alicos were
beautifully made
but unfortunately
too narrow for me
at the heel, and
tended to skin me.
Their footbeds used
to be absolutely
shocking so worth
checking out and
swapping for
something better if
that's still the
case.

They'll have my pair of Superfeet put inside. I use them in
all boots - walking, ski hire, even the local dry-slope's
plastic alpine boots.

The Superfeet make a big difference to me.

- Nigel

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Simon Caldwell said:

NC said:

After trying the cross country ski shops in the UK
(Aviemore*2, Braemar, Ilkley), I find that nobody carries
traditional leather touring boots and does not plan to
get stock in the future. I've done some Google searching
for retailers with no success.

That's strange. I was at Base Camp in Ilkley a few weeks
ago and I'm sure they had leather boots then (the standard
Vibram-soled ones that look like walking boots). Maybe I
mi-saw and they were in fact walking boots...

I think I'm being fair to assume that two lengthy telephone
calls about leather ski touring boots and ski touring
equipment in general would have resulted in an offer of
anything they had in stock. I hadn't insisted on 75mm
bindings, I'd have considered NNN-BC or similar. The only
thing Base Camp could offer were plastic Garmont Excursions.
They said that they would not be getting any leather boots,
and that their skis were going to be on the wider side to
match the plastic boots.

- Nigel

--
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NC said:

The only thing Base Camp could offer were plastic Garmont
Excursions. They said that they would not be getting any
leather boots, and that their skis were going to be on the
wider side to match the plastic boots.

As I've said higher up the thread, though plastics /will/
drive wider skis you don't *need* wider skis with them than
classic nordic tourers (of about 65/55/60 dimensions with
steel edges).

I was in Aviemore yesterday afternoon, and found out the
rumour I'd heard about Mountain Spirit going under was
false. My pal seemed to have got confused between
"Supplies" and "Spirt". But the problems at Mountain
Supplies do mean there are some bargains there. I picked up
a pair of Riva III bindings and a riser plate for half
price, and they had 3 pin bindings half price too. And they
do have a good selection of plastic boots at half price
too: even if you decided they weren't for you for touring
they'd probably be easy enough to sell on without loss at
that price, and they leave the door open for something with
more serious downhill.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

NC said:

The only thing Base Camp could offer were plastic Garmont
Excursions. They said that they would not be getting any
leather boots, and that their skis were going to be on the
wider side to match the plastic boots.

A great shame, yet another descent Nordic ski shop down the
pan :-( At this rate I may have to go back to Norway :-)