Critical Mass or Bad Drivers

Graham Dean said:

Gosh - you know, I just can't make my mind up who annoys me the most...
I do hope critical mass aren't claiming cycling for themselves - I can't say
they represent my views in anyway whatsoever.

I think the original idea of CM was great - a large group of cyclists
riding together for safety in numbers and to demonstrate the bike as a
practical mode of transport. Unfortunately, too many people seem to see
it as an opportunity to protest about something. As soon as CM is seen
as some sort of a protest it has failed, IMHO.

I rode in the first 2 Bath CM's, back in 1994 IIRC. The first one was
great. My enduring memory of the event is of all the traffic on a very
busy road (all bikes, no cars) moving easily to the side of the road
when an ambulance came up behind us with its siren going. For all I
know somebody's life might have been saved by that CM - without it, the
ambulance would probably have taken longer to reach its destination.

On the second, we were joined by peds handing leaflets to motorists
explaining what they thought it was all about. If peds are involved
then the CM has to move at walking pace, the demonstration of cycling as
practical transport fails and the CM is pointless.

I left that second ride in disgust when the group rode through a red
light. I haven't ridden in another CM since.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Danny Colyer came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

Graham Dean said:

Gosh - you know, I just can't make my mind up who annoys me the most...
I do hope critical mass aren't claiming cycling for themselves - I can't
say they represent my views in anyway whatsoever.

I think the original idea of CM was great - a large group of cyclists
riding together for safety in numbers and to demonstrate the bike as a
practical mode of transport. Unfortunately, too many people seem to see
it as an opportunity to protest about something. As soon as CM is seen
as some sort of a protest it has failed, IMHO.

Good point, well put.

Quoted message said:

I left that second ride in disgust when the group rode through a red
light. I haven't ridden in another CM since.

Similar to what you said earlier, the original aim seems to have been
swallowed up in the need for some people to protest and flagrantly flout
laws and conventions. Critical Mass seems to have outgrown itself, IMHO,
and become something of a vehicle itself for political agendas rather than
peaceful, pleasurable, safe, cycling.

Instead of actually going somewhere, as in the aim of transport, they now
seem to prefer to simply hold others up and actually become the congestion,
not the solution.

Hey ho, wgaca.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Graham Dean said:

Gosh - you know, I just can't make my mind up who annoys me the most...
I do hope critical mass aren't claiming cycling for themselves - I can't say
they represent my views in anyway whatsoever.

there are people out there who say that if one doesn't take part in a
democratic process ... you can't complain about it

<BIG_ONE> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Graham Dean said:

Gosh - you know, I just can't make my mind up who annoys me the most...
I do hope critical mass aren't claiming cycling for themselves - I can't
say
they represent my views in anyway whatsoever.

there are people out there who say that if one doesn't take part in a
democratic process ... you can't complain about it

Ahh - the 'if you're not with us (in every single way) then you're against
us' argument - super, democracy in action.

Graham

Graham Dean said:

BIG_ONE said:

"Graham Dean" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do hope critical mass aren't claiming cycling for themselves - I can't
say they represent my views in anyway whatsoever.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there are people out there who say that if one doesn't take part in a
democratic process ... you can't complain about it

Quoted message said:

Ahh - the 'if you're not with us (in every single way) then you're against
us' argument - super, democracy in action.

it is a *similar* POV, but fortunately not mine, guess i'm against it
<g> much as you seem (for unknown reasons) to be against CM... not a
cab driver are you ?

BIG_ONE said:

Graham Dean said:

Gosh - you know, I just can't make my mind up who annoys me the most...
I do hope critical mass aren't claiming cycling for themselves - I can't say
they represent my views in anyway whatsoever.

there are people out there who say that if one doesn't take part in a
democratic process ... you can't complain about it

Democracy is inherently "might is right" and that isn't always an
entirely justifiable position.

chris harrison said:

Democracy is inherently "might is right" and that isn't always an
entirely justifiable position.

I suggest you read up on illiberal and liberal democracies. The common
modern usage of the word "democracy" is to the latter. You are
attributing it to the former.

Here are your starters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illiberal_democracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

--
Tony

"Don't argue the matter, the difficulties will argue for themselves"
-W.S. Churchill

chris harrison said:

Democracy is inherently "might is right" and that isn't always an
entirely justifiable position.

*yes*

my post didn't exactly have its lights on ... but you saw where it was
comming from 🙂

Tony Raven said:

I suggest you read up on illiberal and liberal democracies.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Here are your starters:

<snip>

OH WELL if it's on the internet and in English then it *must* be true
.... especially on the wiki ...

Tony Raven said:

chris harrison said:

Democracy is inherently "might is right" and that isn't always an
entirely justifiable position.

I suggest you read up on illiberal and liberal democracies. The common
modern usage of the word "democracy" is to the latter. You are
attributing it to the former.

Here are your starters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illiberal_democracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

Not at all. Just because a government is tempered by constitutional
limits doesn't stop it from being "might is right". What you consider
modern usage is up to you, the original word stems from government by
the people - a.k.a. mob rule.

I think it was the late, lamented John Peel who once commented that the
road system is the ultimate example of a democracy as each person is
equal in the eyes of the traffic queue. But of course an HGV and a
cyclist might have equal rights to the roadspace, it doesn't mean that
they're going to get them ...

in message <[email hidden]>, chris harrison

(') said:

BIG_ONE said:

Graham Dean said:

Gosh - you know, I just can't make my mind up who annoys me the
most... I do hope critical mass aren't claiming cycling for
themselves - I can't say they represent my views in anyway
whatsoever.

there are people out there who say that if one doesn't take part in a
democratic process ... you can't complain about it

Democracy is inherently "might is right" and that isn't always an
entirely justifiable position.

Oh, for heaven's sake, you should be working for Peter Mandelson. 'Might
is right' is autocracy and oligarchy - social systems where all the
power is concentrated in the hands of a few powerful individuals. The
whole purpose in the development of democracy and the rule of law has
been to control that, to prevent the development of 'might is right'.
Of course it leads to other problems, particularly in racially or
culturally polarised societies, but it is still as nearly as possible
diametrically opposite to 'might is right'.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; single speed mountain bikes: for people who cycle on flat mountains.

Danny Colyer said:

I rode in the first 2 Bath CM's, back in 1994 IIRC. The first one was
great. My enduring memory of the event is of all the traffic on a very
busy road (all bikes, no cars) moving easily to the side of the road when
an ambulance came up behind us with its siren going. For all I know
somebody's life might have been saved by that CM - without it, the
ambulance would probably have taken longer to reach its destination.

A few years ago, I remember a similar incident on the Euston Road in
London. As one, the Mass melted into the side of the road. The ambulance
got to where it was going quicker than ever.