Creatine monohydrate, I don't get it ?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by edd
How come if you have too many cups of coffee you'll get fined and thrown out of the Olympic Games but some how Creatine monohydrate is some sort of acceptable supplement, I don't get it ?

When does a food supplement become a performance enhancing drug ?

any experience or comments on this ?

I just find it really weird that Creatine is not banned ! And it is even promoted as a recommended supplement on some government sites !

caffeine is now, *no* longer banned at any concentration. on the other hand creatine isn't ergogenic in endurance sport (it may not even be ergogenic in sprint sports either).

there are other substances that aren't banned that are also ergogenic

ric

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by ricstern
caffeine is now, *no* longer banned at any concentration. on the other hand creatine isn't ergogenic in endurance sport (it may not even be ergogenic in sprint sports either).

there are other substances that aren't banned that are also ergogenic

ric

Ephedra is no longer banned. Theory is (as I understand it) that thermogenics will not actually improve your performance at a high lvl, Sure is good for us Fatties getting going again though.

The way I see it; anything that can enhance recovery, will allow one to train more frequently, is going to boost performance, lets face it that's what anabolic steroids do.

Even eating carbs at the appropriate times is going to help recovery.

Omega 3 ( fish oil) has an effect on heart function ?

Ginseng root gives you a boost ( will raise blood pressure over time )

vitamin B

being horny and angry will effect testosterone and adrenalin levels.

You might think this thread is going nowhere. But this should be discussed. The whole drug cheat thing is so much bullsh** when one simply looks at the facial bone transformation of our most successful and celebrated athletes, (not necessarily cyclists ) it is just so obvious. They just didn't get caught.

Now I'm not saying this is a good thing. Footballers dropping dead of heart attacks at 30 is a sure sign that’s not the way to go. I'm saying the athlete should be afforded the best diet possible. So when is a food or a food supplement a drug ?

And why ? And who is really the judge ? and where does the coach fit into all of this ?

If winning at all cost means it will cost you your health even if it is legal. is this just really stupid.

I just find all of this hard to swallow

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by edd
The way I see it; anything that can enhance recovery, will allow one to train more frequently, is going to boost performance, lets face it that's what anabolic steroids do.

Even eating carbs at the appropriate times is going to help recovery.

Omega 3 ( fish oil) has an effect on heart function ?

Ginseng root gives you a boost ( will raise blood pressure over time )

vitamin B

being horny and angry will effect testosterone and adrenalin levels.

You might think this thread is going nowhere. But this should be discussed. The whole drug cheat thing is so much bullsh** when one simply looks at the facial bone transformation of our most successful and celebrated athletes, (not necessarily cyclists ) it is just so obvious. They just didn't get caught.

Now I'm not saying this is a good thing. Footballers dropping dead of heart attacks at 30 is a sure sign that’s not the way to go. I'm saying the athlete should be afforded the best diet possible. So when is a food or a food supplement a drug ?

And why ? And who is really the judge ? and where does the coach fit into all of this ?

If winning at all cost means it will cost you your health even if it is legal. is this just really stupid.

I just find all of this hard to swallow

Does anyone know the average life expectancy of a pro cyclist? I read it was 53ish but not 100% sure.

Bottom line, the vast majority of Pro sports people cheat. Most know it is unhealthy, they just dont care. Either money, fame or both over ride commonsense in alot of cases. As to the questions above, drug detection is a joke. If you are a world champion you probbably just have a better chemist than the IOC is all. An illustration of this would be Indurain, tested positive for a substance that the IOC was in the process of banning. While there was some coverage it went unpunished, as technically he had not broken any rules, ie had not taken a banned substance.

I'm just getting my racing lic. now, at age 56 (for vet races)..... so does this mean all the really fast guys are already dead ?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by edd
How come if you have too many cups of coffee you'll get fined and thrown out of the Olympic Games but some how Creatine monohydrate is some sort of acceptable supplement, I don't get it ?

When does a food supplement become a performance enhancing drug ?

any experience or comments on this ?

I just find it really weird that Creatine is not banned ! And it is even promoted as a recommended supplement on some government sites !

Creatine is an excellent supplement that will speed up recovery. I have been using it since it first came out (10 years?) and am in excellent health. Its application is more suited to bodybuiling or powerlifting. I am a natural bodybuiler who cycles for fun. It seems that it would be counter productive for a cyclist to gain alot of muscle mass. It pretty tough hauling my 220lb up hills. I've been off of creatine for a month now and am struggling with weights I was doing easily the month before. Time to start using it again.

Doesn't creatine exist naturally in the body? Maybe thats why... *shrug*

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by enamore22
Doesn't creatine exist naturally in the body? Maybe thats why... *shrug*

Yes it does, it is a chemical used within the muscles in explosive activity lasting about 10 seconds or so, is the simple answer.

Argument is that a creatine supplement can help an endurance athlete in a sprint finish and also assist in recovery.. the argument is put forward by those who make and sell the stuff...so ?

I witness some very impressive improvement in a rower who undertook a creatine supplement regime, understanding that his was an 8 minute event.

I have found that "Endura" an electrolyte supplement very useful in reducing muscle aches (and cramping in others), I'm not prone to cramping. I'm trying to loose some body mass so I'm staying away from the creatine until I'm convinced it is really helpfull and safe !

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by edd

I witness some very impressive improvement in a rower who undertook a creatine supplement regime, understanding that his was an 8 minute event.

That's interesting. I witnessed rowers on my team who started taking creatine undergo a marked slow-down in their improvements (i.e. not able to keep pace with the speed at which teammates were improving).

Not that I think this necessarily proves anything, but it's interesting that our exposures to this supplement differ to such a degree.

I was always under the impression that creatine helps in the process that converts adp + p back into atp and this is a very minor source of energy and only has any significant effect in the very initial stages of an anaerobic exercise. Basically the way I understood it is that it could help you put up that especially difficult 11th rep, i.e. it allowed you to train a bit harder on the weights...If that helps your sport of choice, then, it'd probably help.

The question of what kinds of drugs or supplements go against the spirit of pure athletics (one of the roots of the "what drugs should be banned" question) is a dicey one. Do elevation tents go against the spirit of pure sport? I kinda think they do, but I'm not sure I can provide a strong argument for it. Of course I dont' really worry too much about these questions cause I'm not longer at a high level in any sport, so I can always improve just by training more, these days.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by menglish6
That's interesting. I witnessed rowers on my team who started taking creatine undergo a marked slow-down in their improvements (i.e. not able to keep pace with the speed at which teammates were improving).

Not that I think this necessarily proves anything, but it's interesting that our exposures to this supplement differ to such a degree.

I was always under the impression that creatine helps in the process that converts adp + p back into atp and this is a very minor source of energy and only has any significant effect in the very initial stages of an anaerobic exercise. Basically the way I understood it is that it could help you put up that especially difficult 11th rep, i.e. it allowed you to train a bit harder on the weights...If that helps your sport of choice, then, it'd probably help.

The question of what kinds of drugs or supplements go against the spirit of pure athletics (one of the roots of the "what drugs should be banned" question) is a dicey one. Do elevation tents go against the spirit of pure sport? I kinda think they do, but I'm not sure I can provide a strong argument for it. Of course I dont' really worry too much about these questions cause I'm not longer at a high level in any sport, so I can always improve just by training more, these days.

You raise a very valid point....That the training and who is being trained is by far the issue.... not what supplemention they are on.

My rower ( 19 yr old ) lacked the ability to pick up the pace near the end of a race. His endurance was good because that was what we focused on for twelve months because it was so poor previous. This got him in the elite of sixteen rowers at his college but he was sixteenth.. 12 weeks on supplements and I did think it was the same guy !

Yeah and he did really well...

My experience is that rowers in general, focus on absolute power and ignore endurance in their weight training.. This may have a lot to do with your experience of negative results.

Still, I'm not convinced it will help me on a bike.