Creatine?

footybet said:

before I buy a Creatine supplement (they are quite expensive)
I wonder if anyone in this NG can tell me exactly how Creatine
helps in the promotion of lean muscle mass...

I have A-Level Chemistry, so any equations you may know will not be too
difficult for me to understand...

my philosophy is that when you understand the Science and equations
behind a particular thing, you become more efficient in
putting it into practice...
e.g. learning Rotational Dynamics of 3D shapes in A-Level Physics
means that I can now curl a football better than most footballers...

that may sound a little profound, but understanding my body and how it
works will help accelerate the results that I want from Supplements...

Thanks in Advance

Here is some basic nutritional common sense. Eat real food. You know
the kind that we evolved eating over millions of years. Like real meat,
real seafood, real fruits and real vegetables with no excess cooking
and no refining or processing or added chemicals to preserve, enhance
flavours or colour them.

That way you get all the nutrition that your body needs. Nutrients do
not work best by themselves, one by one. The body best uses nutrients
in complex, natural and wholefood forms. Not in refined, purified and
processed form.

One of the biggest mistake one can make is to over-emphasize one
nutrient in the diet. And to utilize one refined, purified, nutrient to
excess can only cause an imbalance in one way or another. That is not
how the body is designed to get its nutrition.

TC

footybet said:

before I buy a Creatine supplement (they are quite expensive)
I wonder if anyone in this NG can tell me exactly how Creatine
helps in the promotion of lean muscle mass...

I have A-Level Chemistry, so any equations you may know will not be too
difficult for me to understand...

my philosophy is that when you understand the Science and equations
behind a particular thing, you become more efficient in
putting it into practice...
e.g. learning Rotational Dynamics of 3D shapes in A-Level Physics
means that I can now curl a football better than most footballers...

that may sound a little profound, but understanding my body and how it
works will help accelerate the results that I want from Supplements...

Thanks in Advance

Here is some basic nutritional common sense. Eat real food. You know
the kind that we evolved eating over millions of years. Like real meat,
real seafood, real fruits and real vegetables with no excess cooking
and no refining or processing or added chemicals to preserve, enhance
flavours or colour them.

That way you get all the nutrition that your body needs. Nutrients do
not work best by themselves, one by one. The body best uses nutrients
in complex, natural and wholefood forms. Not in refined, purified and
processed form.

One of the biggest mistake one can make is to over-emphasize one
nutrient in the diet. And to utilize one refined, purified, nutrient to
excess can only cause an imbalance in one way or another. That is not
how the body is designed to get its nutrition.

TC

TC - You completely ignored footybet's question. If you don't know the
answer, then say so. Better yet: don't post at all.

As for your last statement ("One of the biggest mistake one can make is
to over-emphasize one nutrient in the diet. And to utilize one refined,
purified, nutrient to excess can only cause an imbalance in one way or
another. That is not how the body is designed to get its nutrition."😉
If that's so, then how do your explain your previous posts where you
extol the virtues of other nutrient-specific supplements? You are an
uneducated hypocrite.

There are people who visit these forums for ACTUAL information, and you
are not one of them. If you've got some garbage to post, then start a
separate thread. Stop hijacking other threads with your nonsense.

Krane said:

TC - You completely ignored footybet's question. If you don't know the
answer, then say so. Better yet: don't post at all.

As for your last statement ("One of the biggest mistake one can make is
to over-emphasize one nutrient in the diet. And to utilize one refined,
purified, nutrient to excess can only cause an imbalance in one way or
another. That is not how the body is designed to get its nutrition."😉
If that's so, then how do your explain your previous posts where you
extol the virtues of other nutrient-specific supplements? You are an
uneducated hypocrite.

There are people who visit these forums for ACTUAL information, and you
are not one of them. If you've got some garbage to post, then start a
separate thread. Stop hijacking other threads with your nonsense.

I have always extolled real nutrition. I have advocated real nutrients
like vitamin C in the context of a low-carb real-food diet.
Supplementation is needed because the vitamin-dense foods we have today
may not be as vitamin-dense as they have been in the past under
different production methods.

Nutrients are always best gotten from real food. But in view of modern
production methods and the limited availability of real whole foods
such as real un-pasteurized un-denatured milk, one may need to take
supplements.

Taking large amounts of a manufactured and processed supplement like
creatine is not the best way to get these nutrients. I don't think
there is an absence of creatine in our diets and it can be gotten just
as easily from real foods.

TC

TC:

So, to sum up your thoughts:

1) Supplements are good.
2) No, wait a sec... Supplements are bad!
3) Actually, supplements are good.

On top of everything, you have once again failed to answer footybet's
question. He did not ask for opinions as to whether or not creatine
supplements should be taken. He asked about the role creatine plays in
muscle growth.

If you want to be taken seriously, then you should work on your reading
skills.

TC:

So, to sum up your thoughts:

1) Supplements are good.
2) No, wait a sec... Supplements are bad!
3) Actually, supplements are good.

On top of everything, you have once again failed to answer footybet's
question. He did not ask for opinions as to whether or not creatine
supplements should be taken. He asked about the role creatine plays in
muscle growth.

If you want to be taken seriously, then you should work on your reading
skills.

Krane said:

TC:

So, to sum up your thoughts:

1) Supplements are good.
2) No, wait a sec... Supplements are bad!
3) Actually, supplements are good.

On top of everything, you have once again failed to answer footybet's
question. He did not ask for opinions as to whether or not creatine
supplements should be taken. He asked about the role creatine plays in
muscle growth.

If you want to be taken seriously, then you should work on your reading
skills.

You should learn to read english before you wade into these
discussionss.

1) Real food is good
2) Todays real foods are but a mere shadow of their former selves, but
they are much much better than the manufactured [censored] sold in boxes in
grocery stores so...
3) Supplements are a good idea on top of eating todays good real foods.

My writing skills are fine, it is your reading that is suspect.

TC

Little slow, are ya?

I didn't say anything about your writing skills.... so, perhaps you
should brush up on your reading skills. (wow.... deja vu!)

You once again failed to answer footybet's question.

And, once again, you're an idiot and a hypocrite. Please stay on
topic or start your own thread. Is that concept too hard for you to
digest, Einstein?

("One of the biggest mistake one can make is

Quoted message said:

to over-emphasize one nutrient in the diet. And to utilize one refined,
purified, nutrient to excess can only cause an imbalance in one way or
another. That is not how the body is designed to get its nutrition."😉

This is a very true statement. It should be patently obvious, but
evidently it isn't.

VP

footybet said:

before I buy a Creatine supplement (they are quite expensive)

you're not looking very hard, the first place I looked
(beyond-a-century) offers the monohydrate for under 2 cents a gram.

There are lots of bodybuilding supps with either gobs of
sugar or costly insulin sensitizers etc where you can pay
a lot more per dose. (my wild guess at what you're pricing)

I don't think these are worth it. Will Brink (see March 2003
LEF mag article on creatine) says monohydrate absorption is
about 90% (plenty high). Add your own sugar etc if you feel
you need it (early bodybuilder useage was to mix it into
grape juice). Some bodybuilders claim they can feel the
difference from sugar. YMMV.

Quoted message said:

I wonder if anyone in this NG can tell me exactly how Creatine
helps in the promotion of lean muscle mass...

rather than try I'll give you a couple links that
do a better job than I could in the time I'd give:

http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/creatine.html
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/CreatineSupplement.htm
http://www.stanford.edu/group/hopes/treatmts/ebuffer/j2.html

for more search 'creatine atp' @edu <--- gets rid of supp seller hype.

excessively simplified:
it helps you to exhaustively exercise a muscle by
maintaining a higher cellular energy level.

a reasonable but speculative (I think) claim often made
by bodybuilder supp makers:
since short peptides like creatine are efficiently absorbed and
(at reasonable doses) incorporated into muscle, more of the rest
of your absorbed protein is available to support growth.

sorry, I've gotta insert a health benefit for it:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15168891&query_hl=13
Korzun WJ.
Oral creatine supplements lower plasma homocysteine concentrations in
humans.
Clin Lab Sci. 2004 Spring;17(2):102-6.
PMID: 15168891

footybet said:

before I buy a Creatine supplement (they are quite expensive)

you're not looking very hard, the first place I looked
(beyond-a-century) offers the monohydrate for under 2 cents a gram.

There are lots of bodybuilding supps with either gobs of
sugar or costly insulin sensitizers etc where you can pay
a lot more per dose. (my wild guess at what you're pricing)

I don't think these are worth it. Will Brink (see March 2003
LEF mag article on creatine) says monohydrate absorption is
about 90% (plenty high). Add your own sugar etc if you feel
you need it (early bodybuilder useage was to mix it into
grape juice). Some bodybuilders claim they can feel the
difference from sugar. YMMV.

Quoted message said:

I wonder if anyone in this NG can tell me exactly how Creatine
helps in the promotion of lean muscle mass...

rather than try I'll give you a couple links that
do a better job than I could in the time I'd give:

http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/creatine.html
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/CreatineSupplement.htm
http://www.stanford.edu/group/hopes/treatmts/ebuffer/j2.html

for more search 'creatine atp' @edu <--- gets rid of supp seller hype.

excessively simplified:
it helps you to exhaustively exercise a muscle by
maintaining a higher cellular energy level.

a reasonable but speculative (I think) claim often made
by bodybuilder supp makers:
since short peptides like creatine are efficiently absorbed and
(at reasonable doses) incorporated into muscle, more of the rest
of your absorbed protein is available to support growth.

sorry, I've gotta insert a health benefit for it:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15168891&query_hl=13
Korzun WJ.
Oral creatine supplements lower plasma homocysteine concentrations in
humans.
Clin Lab Sci. 2004 Spring;17(2):102-6.
PMID: 15168891

"footybet" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

before I buy a Creatine supplement (they are quite expensive)
I wonder if anyone in this NG can tell me exactly how Creatine
helps in the promotion of lean muscle mass...

I have A-Level Chemistry, so any equations you may know will not be too
difficult for me to understand...

Unfortunately this is a biochemical topic where, unlike in chemistry,
equations play only a minor role.

Creatine is converted into creatine phosphate in the cell.
This creatine phosphate can act as a phosphate donor and regenerate ADP back
to ATP (ATP is a triphosphate ester of adenosin and acts as the main energy
substrate in the body. ADP is the corresponding diphosphate).
This means it practically provides an "energy buffer" since the ATP
resources in the cell are only very small.

Other systems that act similar are the Glycogen stores via glycolysis and
glucose or other macronutrients via cellular respiration.

Quoted message said:

my philosophy is that when you understand the Science and equations
behind a particular thing, you become more efficient in
putting it into practice...
e.g. learning Rotational Dynamics of 3D shapes in A-Level Physics
means that I can now curl a football better than most footballers...

that may sound a little profound, but understanding my body and how it
works will help accelerate the results that I want from Supplements...

Thanks in Advance

"TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here is some basic nutritional common sense. Eat real food. You know
the kind that we evolved eating over millions of years. Like real meat,
real seafood, ...

There is NO proof in contemporary evolutionary theory that we "evolved"
to eat "real meat". There is no evidence that humans ever did this; in fact
epidemiology indicates that all the currently-popular "degenerative
diseases" are positively associated with the consumption of animal proteins.
http://www.ecologos.org/ttdd.html

Laurie