Creak to crack!

"Don Whybrow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Last week I noticed a creaking noise every pedal revolution, so thinking
the pedal/crank/BB needed to be tightened I set about stripping it down
(taking the opportunity to give the chain a clean) to re grease, rebuild
and tighten. While trying to free up the BB, I thought that there was a
bit too much flex in the frame and then I saw this ...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1049/672384999_a68911828f_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1154/672384897_d8f9b45663_b.jpg

I have written to Ridgeback and await their response.

Gosh Don, how old is it?

David Lloyd

Don Whybrow said:

Last week I noticed a creaking noise every pedal revolution, so thinking
the pedal/crank/BB needed to be tightened I set about stripping it down
(taking the opportunity to give the chain a clean) to re grease, rebuild
and tighten. While trying to free up the BB, I thought that there was a
bit too much flex in the frame and then I saw this ...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1049/672384999_a68911828f_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1154/672384897_d8f9b45663_b.jpg

I have written to Ridgeback and await their response.

ooh wow! i know alloy's do crack but thats rather taking the mic.

roger

Don Whybrow said:

Last week I noticed a creaking noise every pedal revolution, so thinking
the pedal/crank/BB needed to be tightened I set about stripping it down
(taking the opportunity to give the chain a clean) to re grease, rebuild
and tighten. While trying to free up the BB, I thought that there was a
bit too much flex in the frame and then I saw this ...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1049/672384999_a68911828f_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1154/672384897_d8f9b45663_b.jpg

I have written to Ridgeback and await their response.

I bet you get a new fame outta them.

In article <[email hidden]>, Don Whybrow
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Last week I noticed a creaking noise every pedal revolution, so thinking
the pedal/crank/BB needed to be tightened I set about stripping it down
(taking the opportunity to give the chain a clean) to re grease, rebuild
and tighten. While trying to free up the BB, I thought that there was a
bit too much flex in the frame and then I saw this ...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1049/672384999_a68911828f_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1154/672384897_d8f9b45663_b.jpg

I have written to Ridgeback and await their response.

Looks like the weld didn't penetrate properly at the front.

David Lloyd said:

Gosh Don, how old is it?

Just under a year & half. Used primarily for commuting with the odd
leisure ride.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

Give your child mental blocks for Christmas.

"Don Whybrow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David Lloyd said:

Gosh Don, how old is it?

Just under a year & half. Used primarily for commuting with the odd
leisure ride.

Under the Sales of Goods Act, the place where you bought it is liable, so
you should take it back to them rather than talking to Ridgeback. That is
unless you bought it from Ridgeback directly. For a frame to last only a
year and a half says that it is of unsatisafatory quality, especially given
the use you put it to.

David Lloyd

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Don Whybrow
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Last week I noticed a creaking noise every pedal revolution, so
thinking the pedal/crank/BB needed to be tightened I set about
stripping it down (taking the opportunity to give the chain a
clean) to re grease, rebuild and tighten. While trying to free up
the BB, I thought that there was a bit too much flex in the frame
and then I saw this ...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1049/672384999_a68911828f_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1154/672384897_d8f9b45663_b.jpg

I have written to Ridgeback and await their response.

Looks like the weld didn't penetrate properly at the front.

Didn't *fuse* properly. Or it may have cracked down the HAZ.

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record sprint mongrel

In article <[email hidden]>, mb
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Don Whybrow
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Last week I noticed a creaking noise every pedal revolution, so
thinking the pedal/crank/BB needed to be tightened I set about
stripping it down (taking the opportunity to give the chain a
clean) to re grease, rebuild and tighten. While trying to free up
the BB, I thought that there was a bit too much flex in the frame
and then I saw this ...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1049/672384999_a68911828f_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1154/672384897_d8f9b45663_b.jpg

I have written to Ridgeback and await their response.

Looks like the weld didn't penetrate properly at the front.

Didn't *fuse* properly.

It looks pretty flat to me, but hard to tell from the photos.

Quoted message said:

Or it may have cracked down the HAZ.

It might be easier to tell if we could see the whole of the broken
surfaces - but whether it was dodgy welding or heat treatment, and
wherever the crack started, he should get a new frame out of it.

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, mb
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Rob Morley wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Looks like the weld didn't penetrate properly at the front.

Didn't fuse properly.

It looks pretty flat to me, but hard to tell from the photos.

Ah, I think I see a terminology problem here. Weld penetration normally
refers to the depth into the joint that the weld metal has penetrated.
Fusion refers to the interface between parent metal and weld metal (or
weld to weld).
Have a look at the two here:
http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResources/CommunityCollege/Radiography/Te
chCalibrations/RadiographInterp.htm

http://tinyurl.com/29elhb

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or it may have cracked down the HAZ.

It might be easier to tell if we could see the whole of the broken
surfaces - but whether it was dodgy welding or heat treatment, and
wherever the crack started, he should get a new frame out of it.

Could well have cracked during heat treatment. Yes, he should get a new
frame.

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record sprint mongrel

David Lloyd said:

Under the Sales of Goods Act, the place where you bought it is liable, so
you should take it back to them rather than talking to Ridgeback. That is
unless you bought it from Ridgeback directly. For a frame to last only a
year and a half says that it is of unsatisafatory quality, especially given
the use you put it to.

It just so happens I was in the LBS this morning to get some stuff for
one of my other bikes and mentioned to them. They were quite keen that I
returned it through them, so I have just returned from dropping it off.
The LBS in question, Edinburgh Bike Co-Op.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

Discordianism: Where reality is a figment of your imagination

Don Whybrow said:

David Lloyd said:

Under the Sales of Goods Act, the place where you bought it is liable,
so you should take it back to them rather than talking to Ridgeback.
That is unless you bought it from Ridgeback directly. For a frame to
last only a year and a half says that it is of unsatisafatory quality,
especially given the use you put it to.

It just so happens I was in the LBS this morning to get some stuff for
one of my other bikes and mentioned to them. They were quite keen that I
returned it through them, so I have just returned from dropping it off.
The LBS in question, Edinburgh Bike Co-Op.

Just looking through the warranty for a Ridgeback Nemesis I had a couple
of years ago. "warranty coverage on the bicycle frame extends for the
life of the bicycle while owned by the original purchaser"... so you
should get a shiny new frame no bother.

In article <[email hidden]>, mb
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Ah, I think I see a terminology problem here. Weld penetration normally
refers to the depth into the joint that the weld metal has penetrated.
Fusion refers to the interface between parent metal and weld metal (or
weld to weld).

I know. I was thinking it looked like the arc had jumped to the seat
tube, so the down tube hadn't heated sufficiently (giving poor
penetration on that side of the joint) as a result of which the weld had
pooled on top of it rather than fusing properly. Swings and
roundabouts, I think, but I'm not strong on theory in this sort of thing
- I just wave the spark at the metal and see if it sticks together. :-)

In article <[email hidden]>, Rola
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Just looking through the warranty for a Ridgeback Nemesis I had a couple
of years ago. "warranty coverage on the bicycle frame extends for the
life of the bicycle

But the bike's dead, so the warranty has expired. :-P

Don,

You will let us know how the shop/manufacturer responded won't you?
Any one can produce one duff'n amongst many but most importantly it's how
they respond and how you feel once it's all over that matters.
Ridgeback and EBC both seem to have a pretty good reputation so let's wait
to see the outcome before forming any judgment.
Good luck.

SW

Rola said:

Just looking through the warranty for a Ridgeback Nemesis I had a couple
of years ago. "warranty coverage on the bicycle frame extends for the life
of the bicycle while owned by the original purchaser"... so you should get
a shiny new frame no bother.

Technically, this would appear to result in the manufacturer's warranty
expiring when the 12 month lease comes to an end, as the original
purchaser will be one's employer. Has anyone looked into this? Do
manufacturers (esp. Ridgeback) tend to be sticklers on this matter?

Best Regards,
Alex.
--
Alex Butcher, Bristol UK. PGP/GnuPG ID:0x5010dbff

"[T]he whole point about the reason why I think it is important we go for
identity cards and an identity database today is that identity fraud and
abuse is a major, major problem. Now the civil liberties aspect of it, look
it is a view, I don't personally think it matters very much."
- Tony Blair, 6 June 2006 <http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page9566.asp>

Alex Butcher said:

Rola said:

Just looking through the warranty for a Ridgeback Nemesis I had a couple
of years ago. "warranty coverage on the bicycle frame extends for the life
of the bicycle while owned by the original purchaser"... so you should get
a shiny new frame no bother.

Technically, this would appear to result in the manufacturer's warranty
expiring when the 12 month lease comes to an end, as the original
purchaser will be one's employer. Has anyone looked into this? Do
manufacturers (esp. Ridgeback) tend to be sticklers on this matter?

It's largely irrelevant anyway, since a frame cracking like that after
a year would clearly be deemed as 'not fit for purpose' and therefore
they'd be obliged to replace it under the Sale of Goods act. I can't
imagine for a second that they'd a) try and dispute their liability
under said act or b) risk the negative publicity if they did and it
went to court. Far easier for them to replace it at the cost of, what,
a couple of hundred quid?

"Tim Woodall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is possibly not (technically) true.

The OP might have a claim against his employer who might have a claim
against the shop who might have a claim against the manufacturer.

In all but the first link these are business to business transactions
and so don't get the same protection from the sale of goods act and
might not be covered as the bike has already lasted over a year.

For the purposes of the sales of goods act, you go by what you expect to be
a reasonable lifespan, which a year isn't for a frame. My favorite
Holdsworth Professional is still going strong after 22 years hard use.

David Lloyd (now home)

David Lloyd said:

IF someone was buying a bike under the cycle to work scheme, I would
consider them to be the buyer and their employer to be acting as a loans
company.

Yes, as I was reading through the sample loan agreement, it occurred to me
that despite the fact that my employer is the owner, I'm still the
purchaser. It's semantics, but I guess that, combined with SoGA and
reputation means it's probably all OK in the unlikely event Something Bad
happens to the frame.

Quoted message said:

David Lloyd

Cheers,
Alex.
--
Alex Butcher, Bristol UK. PGP/GnuPG ID:0x5010dbff

"[T]he whole point about the reason why I think it is important we go for
identity cards and an identity database today is that identity fraud and
abuse is a major, major problem. Now the civil liberties aspect of it, look
it is a view, I don't personally think it matters very much."
- Tony Blair, 6 June 2006 <http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page9566.asp>

Alex Butcher said:

David Lloyd said:

IF someone was buying a bike under the cycle to work scheme, I would
consider them to be the buyer and their employer to be acting as a loans
company.

I think you are wrong.

The salary sacrifice has basically nothing to do with the provision of
the bike. Technically, the company is the owner, purchaser, buyer,
everything. They do and are everything with respect to the purchase
of the bike. Having done all that, they simply lend it gratis to the
employee. This is the taxation position.

The salary sacrifice is specifically NOT a preferential rate loan to
the employee - that would be taxable. It's also specifically NOT a
hire purchase - that would be taxable too.

The salary sacrifice is a legally and taxation-aly separate
arrangement between the employer and the employee.

Quoted message said:

Yes, as I was reading through the sample loan agreement, it occurred to me
that despite the fact that my employer is the owner, I'm still the
purchaser.

I don't think you are.

If you are, you'll need to pay VAT on the purchase. Did/will you? I
don't think I've ever heard of anyone else using the scheme pay VAT.

regards, Ian SMith
--
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