Cracked up, update.

D. Ferguson said:

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in on the original thread.
Especially Chang.

Apparently my post crack up decline was due to a combination of a loss
of fitness(3 weeks off) and a psychological blow.

After taking everyone's advice and just riding base miles for the week
I went out tonight to see where things stand. My average speed is back
up within striking distance of where it was pre crack-up and might
have been right on were it not for the 89% humidity. It felt like I
was swimming rather than cycling.

But more importantly my "suffering threshold" is much better. I did 70
minutes with an average HR of 86% of max. Which should be right at AT
for me. Much better than the 77% I was seeing last week.

I'm probably never going to even break into masters fatties with my
16-17 mph averages but I only started late last fall so I have plenty
of room to grow and it's been fun charting my progress. It gives me
just that much more appreciation for the pros I've been watching over
the years.

D

Glad to hear it's coming back together for you too.
Good Riding
Bill C

D. Ferguson said:

After taking everyone's advice and just riding base miles for the week
I went out tonight to see where things stand. My average speed is back
up within striking distance of where it was pre crack-up and might
have been right on were it not for the 89% humidity. It felt like I
was swimming rather than cycling.

Dumbass,

You move faster through humid air than through dry air. This is because
water (H2O) is lighter than oxygen (O2) or nitrogen (N2), the main
components of dry atmosphere which it is displacing on moist days.

Glad your "crack-up" wasn't something serious, like ball cancer.

-Smurf

Torched Smurf said:

D. Ferguson said:

After taking everyone's advice and just riding base miles for the week
I went out tonight to see where things stand. My average speed is back
up within striking distance of where it was pre crack-up and might
have been right on were it not for the 89% humidity. It felt like I
was swimming rather than cycling.

Dumbass,

You move faster through humid air than through dry air. This is because
water (H2O) is lighter than oxygen (O2) or nitrogen (N2), the main
components of dry atmosphere which it is displacing on moist days.

Glad your "crack-up" wasn't something serious, like ball cancer.

-Smurf

Oh, yea, that's right.

Well, with more humidity there is less sweat evaporation which
increases the weight.

Now, see, I knew I woulda gone faster if it wasn't so humid!

;-)

Glad you got your mojo back.

Ron

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 19:55:36 -0400, D. Ferguson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in on the original thread.
Especially Chang.

Apparently my post crack up decline was due to a combination of a loss
of fitness(3 weeks off) and a psychological blow.

After taking everyone's advice and just riding base miles for the week
I went out tonight to see where things stand. My average speed is back
up within striking distance of where it was pre crack-up and might
have been right on were it not for the 89% humidity. It felt like I
was swimming rather than cycling.

But more importantly my "suffering threshold" is much better. I did 70
minutes with an average HR of 86% of max. Which should be right at AT
for me. Much better than the 77% I was seeing last week.

I'm probably never going to even break into masters fatties with my
16-17 mph averages but I only started late last fall so I have plenty
of room to grow and it's been fun charting my progress. It gives me
just that much more appreciation for the pros I've been watching over
the years.

D

D. Ferguson said:

Torched Smurf said:

D. Ferguson said:

After taking everyone's advice and just riding base miles for the week
I went out tonight to see where things stand. My average speed is back
up within striking distance of where it was pre crack-up and might
have been right on were it not for the 89% humidity. It felt like I
was swimming rather than cycling.

Dumbass,

You move faster through humid air than through dry air. This is because
water (H2O) is lighter than oxygen (O2) or nitrogen (N2), the main
components of dry atmosphere which it is displacing on moist days.

Glad your "crack-up" wasn't something serious, like ball cancer.

-Smurf

Oh, yea, that's right.

Well, with more humidity there is less sweat evaporation which
increases the weight.

Now, see, I knew I woulda gone faster if it wasn't so humid!

;-)

Also glad to hear you're back in the saddle. Speaking of which did you ever
get a chance to reference that liist of chiros and find a good doc in my
area? My wife gave me the name of a Dr Cox, which you can find in google if
you add the name of my city that I sent you.

Don't mean to bug ya. Just thought I'd make one additional query.

jj

Jet said:

Also glad to hear you're back in the saddle. Speaking of which did you ever
get a chance to reference that liist of chiros and find a good doc in my
area? My wife gave me the name of a Dr Cox, which you can find in google if
you add the name of my city that I sent you.

Don't mean to bug ya. Just thought I'd make one additional query.

jj

I sent you 3 names on 8/11 by e-mail.

Here they are again. The first seems the best fit from what I can
tell.

Dr. Kem Spaulding
1114 E High St.
978-4888

Dr. William Hatfield
977 Seminole Trl #315
973-1079

Dr. Scott Wagner
147 Zan Rd.
978-4888?(not certain)

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:08:31 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Glad you got your mojo back.

Ron

Thanks Ron!

D. Ferguson says...

Quoted message said:

I'm probably never going to even break into masters fatties with my
16-17 mph averages but I only started late last fall so I have plenty
of room to grow and it's been fun charting my progress.

I don't know your health history or any of that stuff, but for someone as new as
you, it's difficult to predict the outcome. In part, it gets down to desire,
how much time you can commit and how you use that time. I've seen folks that
get into it at over 50 years of age, out of shape and having never been in
shape, then progress to a fairly high level of fitness. Keep working at it and
you might surprise yourself.

Mad Dog said:

D. Ferguson says...

Quoted message said:

I'm probably never going to even break into masters fatties with my
16-17 mph averages but I only started late last fall so I have plenty
of room to grow and it's been fun charting my progress.

I don't know your health history or any of that stuff, but for someone as new as
you, it's difficult to predict the outcome. In part, it gets down to desire,
how much time you can commit and how you use that time. I've seen folks that
get into it at over 50 years of age, out of shape and having never been in
shape, then progress to a fairly high level of fitness. Keep working at it and
you might surprise yourself.

Really!? What's the most awesome example of this in an over 50y.o. who just
really got into it in your experience. Details! ;-)

jj

Jet said:

Mad Dog said:

D. Ferguson says...

Quoted message said:

I'm probably never going to even break into masters fatties with my
16-17 mph averages but I only started late last fall so I have plenty
of room to grow and it's been fun charting my progress.

I don't know your health history or any of that stuff, but for someone as new as
you, it's difficult to predict the outcome. In part, it gets down to desire,
how much time you can commit and how you use that time. I've seen folks that
get into it at over 50 years of age, out of shape and having never been in
shape, then progress to a fairly high level of fitness. Keep working at it and
you might surprise yourself.

Really!? What's the most awesome example of this in an over 50y.o. who just
really got into it in your experience. Details! ;-)

Me.

Well, actually I'm 49, but by cycling rules I'm 50. Quit smoking again last year
got back on the bike and decided that by the end of the following year (dec
2005) I'd be the fastest geezer in the state. It hasn't happened yet. Next year,
really. You'll see.

Just need more training time and a more agreeable climate. Road training in
Florida this time of year is hellish.

Ron

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:18:17 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Jet said:

Mad Dog said:

D. Ferguson says...

>I'm probably never going to even break into masters fatties with my
>16-17 mph averages but I only started late last fall so I have plenty
>of room to grow and it's been fun charting my progress.

I don't know your health history or any of that stuff, but for someone as new as
you, it's difficult to predict the outcome. In part, it gets down to desire,
how much time you can commit and how you use that time. I've seen folks that
get into it at over 50 years of age, out of shape and having never been in
shape, then progress to a fairly high level of fitness. Keep working at it and
you might surprise yourself.

Really!? What's the most awesome example of this in an over 50y.o. who just
really got into it in your experience. Details! ;-)

Me.

Well, actually I'm 49, but by cycling rules I'm 50. Quit smoking again last year
got back on the bike and decided that by the end of the following year (dec
2005) I'd be the fastest geezer in the state. It hasn't happened yet. Next year,
really. You'll see.

Just need more training time and a more agreeable climate. Road training in
Florida this time of year is hellish.

Ron

So what are your goals in terms of say watts/kg, or mph speed on the flats,
or something?

Then how close are you to getting there? What's your speed on the flats,
what's your ITT speed at, what, 10km, or 15 - whatever the common crits are
run at?

Were you a racer in the past? How long you been off the bike? Except for
smoking, were you fit?

Since I'm also 50, and riding for two years, just looking for some
comparison figures to see how far off I am.

Right now, I'm getting 17mph avg speed on the flats, but that includes
traffic, U-turns at the end of streets and soforth. I got 17.0 on a 45min
ride in July, and for my PM ride I got 16.4 mph avg on my computer. Most of
the time I'm seeing 18-20mph on my speedometer. Pretty slow, but I'm making
decent improvement monthly.

On the hills I recently rode a ~1.5 mile hill at 4-5% grade, speedometer
showing 11mph, and got there in just under 9 minutes and change. The
cycling calculator shows me at 309 watts. Not that great, but improved over
last times in May 05.

When I started my fitness was poor due to an injury, and I was 30lbs
overweight. I'm now at about 225. I did amateur triathlons in the 80s and
lifted weights, powerlifting total was about 1000lbs (bench, squat, dl).

jj

Jet said:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:18:17 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Jet said:

On 18 Aug 2005 10:26:34 -0700, Mad Dog <[email hidden]> wrote:

>D. Ferguson says...
>
>>I'm probably never going to even break into masters fatties with my
>>16-17 mph averages but I only started late last fall so I have plenty
>>of room to grow and it's been fun charting my progress.
>
>I don't know your health history or any of that stuff, but for someone as new as
>you, it's difficult to predict the outcome. In part, it gets down to desire,
>how much time you can commit and how you use that time. I've seen folks that
>get into it at over 50 years of age, out of shape and having never been in
>shape, then progress to a fairly high level of fitness. Keep working at it and
>you might surprise yourself.

Really!? What's the most awesome example of this in an over 50y.o. who just
really got into it in your experience. Details! ;-)

Me.

Well, actually I'm 49, but by cycling rules I'm 50. Quit smoking again last year
got back on the bike and decided that by the end of the following year (dec
2005) I'd be the fastest geezer in the state. It hasn't happened yet. Next year,
really. You'll see.

Just need more training time and a more agreeable climate. Road training in
Florida this time of year is hellish.

Ron

So what are your goals in terms of say watts/kg, or mph speed on the flats,
or something?

Then how close are you to getting there? What's your speed on the flats,
what's your ITT speed at, what, 10km, or 15 - whatever the common crits are
run at?

Were you a racer in the past? How long you been off the bike? Except for
smoking, were you fit?

Since I'm also 50, and riding for two years, just looking for some
comparison figures to see how far off I am.

Right now, I'm getting 17mph avg speed on the flats, but that includes
traffic, U-turns at the end of streets and soforth. I got 17.0 on a 45min
ride in July, and for my PM ride I got 16.4 mph avg on my computer. Most of
the time I'm seeing 18-20mph on my speedometer. Pretty slow, but I'm making
decent improvement monthly.

On the hills I recently rode a ~1.5 mile hill at 4-5% grade, speedometer
showing 11mph, and got there in just under 9 minutes and change. The
cycling calculator shows me at 309 watts. Not that great, but improved over
last times in May 05.

When I started my fitness was poor due to an injury, and I was 30lbs
overweight. I'm now at about 225. I did amateur triathlons in the 80s and
lifted weights, powerlifting total was about 1000lbs (bench, squat, dl).

jj

You don't need to be obsessing over details like this. Just look at it
as a lifestyle change, you've got the rest of your life to ride your
bike. Just relax and have fun, toss the cyclometer. I know tons of
guys that got totally into racing all of a sudden, get all the kit,
hire a coach, and race every weekend. A year or two later, they're not
even riding anymore, burned out.

Its better to take a relaxed attitude and stay with cycling for life,
than to obsess about it and burn out in a few years.

Jet said:

I was 30lbs overweight. I'm now at about 225.

So you haven't lost any weight at all?

I agree with the previous reply; don't obsess about numbers, especially
not average speed for the ride, just live healthy. At least 3 1h aerobic
workouts per week.

--
E. Dronkert

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Jet said:

I was 30lbs overweight. I'm now at about 225.

So you haven't lost any weight at all?

I agree with the previous reply; don't obsess about numbers, especially
not average speed for the ride, just live healthy. At least 3 1h aerobic
workouts per week.

I'm just trying to compare with Ronsonic, a fellow 50year. There's no
obsession with number.

I'm a very solid 225, ex-bodybuilder. At 200lbs I had a 31" waist. Right
now I'm about a 34" waist. Probably 15% bodyfat.

Yes I even need to lose some of the unnecessary muscle weight.
Unfortunately, riding hills is making my arms and forearms bigger. Arrrgh!
;-)

I'd like to ride at about 180. But I had 30lbs of fat more when I started,
due to two years of working two jobs and a consulting gig, and having a
back/hip injury.

Don't worry about me obsessing. I rode over 600 days in the last two years,
without even trying that hard, and will not stop riding - it's therapy for
my back/hip for one thing. I've been working out in one form or another for
about 30 years. I'm not likely to 'burn out' any time soon, believe me.

jj

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On the hills I recently rode a ~1.5 mile hill at 4-5% grade, speedometer
showing 11mph, and got there in just under 9 minutes and change. The
cycling calculator shows me at 309 watts. Not that great, but improved over
last times in May 05.

When I started my fitness was poor due to an injury, and I was 30lbs
overweight. I'm now at about 225. I did amateur triathlons in the 80s and
lifted weights, powerlifting total was about 1000lbs (bench, squat, dl).

jj

You don't need to be obsessing over details like this. Just look at it
as a lifestyle change, you've got the rest of your life to ride your
bike. Just relax and have fun, toss the cyclometer. I know tons of
guys that got totally into racing all of a sudden, get all the kit,
hire a coach, and race every weekend. A year or two later, they're not
even riding anymore, burned out.

Its better to take a relaxed attitude and stay with cycling for life,
than to obsess about it and burn out in a few years.

The only reason I posted numbers was to compare with Ron. Don't worry I
obsess about everything and never quit, never burn out - been running and
swimming and working out for 30 years. Biking is the easiest of all those
things, so for me, even riding hard is a picnic compared to bodybuilding,
boxing and triathlons, lol.

jj

Jet said:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:18:17 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Really!? What's the most awesome example of this in an over 50y.o. who just
really got into it in your experience. Details! ;-)

Me.

Well, actually I'm 49, but by cycling rules I'm 50. Quit smoking again last year
got back on the bike and decided that by the end of the following year (dec
2005) I'd be the fastest geezer in the state. It hasn't happened yet. Next year,
really. You'll see.

Just need more training time and a more agreeable climate. Road training in
Florida this time of year is hellish.

Ron

So what are your goals in terms of say watts/kg, or mph speed on the flats,
or something?

We've got bike races here that interest me. There's a little cross series - I
did a couple last season and will do this season. I'll be a hell of a lot
stronger this year, I was barely holding on for 45 minutes last time around.
There are also some regular TTs I'll be doing.

I'm going to do some mtb races starting this fall. I'm putting together a
serviceable bike right now and am starting to get the technique together. I
really enjoy riding through the woods a lot more than on the road. Especially
this time of year, the sun here will just peel you. Besides the trail riding is
consuming and involving. Almost all my riding lately is off-road.

Might do the Florida Senior Games time trials. They're running 5 and 10K TT
events, broken down in 5 year age groups and being a relic of the middle of the
last century they've got the 50-55 class for me. Almost scary how fast a 5K ride
will have to be to compete even at my age.

Quoted message said:

Then how close are you to getting there? What's your speed on the flats,
what's your ITT speed at, what, 10km, or 15 - whatever the common crits are
run at?

I haven't done a personal timed ride. I really should just for a benchmark. But
without being scientific about it, I enjoy those moments when I realize just how
far ahead I am of where I was. I've been almost entirely off road lately and
when I did a 35 mile loop on the road bike a couple weeks ago I was tickled to
see myself dieseling along at speeds that would've been a special event last
year.

Quoted message said:

Were you a racer in the past? How long you been off the bike? Except for
smoking, were you fit?

Mid-80s I did some tris and duos. Never really raced a bike, just rode around a
lot. Did sports in high school, ran middle distances, wrestled badly. I looked
okay and was relatively fit except for the not being able to breath business.

Last year I started with like 45 minute rides that'd cover 10 miles. Just
terrible slow, but fun. This summer I've been riding 15 - 25 miles of
singletrack at 10-12 mph depending on the weather.

Quoted message said:

Since I'm also 50, and riding for two years, just looking for some
comparison figures to see how far off I am.

Right now, I'm getting 17mph avg speed on the flats, but that includes
traffic, U-turns at the end of streets and soforth. I got 17.0 on a 45min
ride in July, and for my PM ride I got 16.4 mph avg on my computer. Most of
the time I'm seeing 18-20mph on my speedometer. Pretty slow, but I'm making
decent improvement monthly.

On the hills I recently rode a ~1.5 mile hill at 4-5% grade, speedometer
showing 11mph, and got there in just under 9 minutes and change. The
cycling calculator shows me at 309 watts. Not that great, but improved over
last times in May 05.

When I started my fitness was poor due to an injury, and I was 30lbs
overweight. I'm now at about 225. I did amateur triathlons in the 80s and
lifted weights, powerlifting total was about 1000lbs (bench, squat, dl).

Yeow, then it's a good thing I can probably outrun you. I'm 210 now, but should
be more like 180. My riding pace is a bit faster, usually seeing 21-23mph and
finishing a 30-35 mile ride at a 17-18 avg. I probably should go do a benchmark
ride just for the records. Got a perfect paved loop at one of our local parks
for the job. There's the ticket for this weekend go get a time.

Ron

Quoted message said:

You don't need to be obsessing over details like this. Just look at it
as a lifestyle change, you've got the rest of your life to ride your
bike. Just relax and have fun, toss the cyclometer. I know tons of
guys that got totally into racing all of a sudden, get all the kit,
hire a coach, and race every weekend. A year or two later, they're not
even riding anymore, burned out.

Its better to take a relaxed attitude and stay with cycling for life,
than to obsess about it and burn out in a few years.

For myself I needed some physical challenge for the motivation. Doesn't need to
be much but has to be external enough to be fun and personal enough to not need
the paraphernalia of coaches and kit and yada ya.

For me the "toss the cyclometer" and ride for fun is the mountain bike. Love it
out there.

Ron

Jet said:

When I started my fitness was poor due to an injury, and I was 30lbs
overweight. I'm now at about 225. I did amateur triathlons in the 80s and
lifted weights, powerlifting total was about 1000lbs (bench, squat, dl).

jj

There was a guy I went to school with, our kids are in the same
kindergarten class right now, who was only 5'6" and about 130lbs as a
freshmen in HS(and probably never weighed over 150 as a senior) . The
guy, even at that time, was part of the "thousand pound club" doing,
as you said, a lift total of 1000lbs with bench, squat, and dl. He was
a real freak of nature. Through HS he was runner up a couple years for
the state wrestling title. Champ state pole vaulter. Football
quarterback. 400m relay state competitor. Just un freakin' believable.

Hadn't thought about it until you mentioned that 1000lb thing, which I
had not heard of since HS.

I only knew one other person who was like that. A guy I was in
graduate school with. 5'10", about 170lbs. He had gone to college on a
wrestling scholarship. One day he was talking with some guys about
lifting and said something like 450lb bench press. They point blank
called him a liar. They all walked straight over to the weight room
where he did 4-5 reps of 400lbs with a shirt and tie on. Weird.

I did a lot of lifting through the early 90's and knew a lot of strong
guys but those two really stick out because of their size.

Clearly no point to that whole post, just thinking out loud.

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 00:27:10 GMT, RonSonic <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Last year I started with like 45 minute rides that'd cover 10 miles. Just
terrible slow, but fun. This summer I've been riding 15 - 25 miles of
singletrack at 10-12 mph depending on the weather.

Quoted message said:

Since I'm also 50, and riding for two years, just looking for some
comparison figures to see how far off I am.

Right now, I'm getting 17mph avg speed on the flats, but that includes
traffic, U-turns at the end of streets and soforth. I got 17.0 on a 45min
ride in July, and for my PM ride I got 16.4 mph avg on my computer. Most of
the time I'm seeing 18-20mph on my speedometer. Pretty slow, but I'm making
decent improvement monthly.

On the hills I recently rode a ~1.5 mile hill at 4-5% grade, speedometer
showing 11mph, and got there in just under 9 minutes and change. The
cycling calculator shows me at 309 watts. Not that great, but improved over
last times in May 05.

When I started my fitness was poor due to an injury, and I was 30lbs
overweight. I'm now at about 225. I did amateur triathlons in the 80s and
lifted weights, powerlifting total was about 1000lbs (bench, squat, dl).

Yeow, then it's a good thing I can probably outrun you. I'm 210 now, but should
be more like 180. My riding pace is a bit faster, usually seeing 21-23mph and
finishing a 30-35 mile ride at a 17-18 avg. I probably should go do a benchmark
ride just for the records. Got a perfect paved loop at one of our local parks
for the job. There's the ticket for this weekend go get a time.

Ron

Well you should be pleased at your ability in so short a time. I think your
skills and times are top-drawer for a recently-returned rider.

My feeling is that after about age 40-45 and just -starting- to ride again
it takes about 3-4 years of consistent riding to find your peak. So you can
probably look forward to additional improvement for the next couple years.

I think I have about 3 more years of pretty good improvement to look
forward to and about 10-15 years of decent riding. What's exciting to me is
that because of my consistency now, something that eluded me a bit in my
youth because of jobs and family, I think I can probably ride better than I
did as a college student.

Do you live in a mostly flat area, or do you have some good hills? In my
case I find that I have to split my time between speed work and hills and
that is holding me back a little. When hill riding goes up, my speed tends
to drop a little if I dont' watch it. Right now I'm doing primarily speed
work three days a week, and climbing three, with the other day being some
optional thing. Every two months I do a long hard ride that I think is
slightly over my head. I have my wife come with me and park at the half-way
point in case I get into trouble. So far, it's all been a good experience
and I've always been able to rise to the occasion.

Anyway, good talking to ya, and great comparing notes. Keep at it and let
me know your TT results. I don't have any place here to do a speed TT, it's
all hills all the time, lol. Don't think we even have more than a mile of
flat road anywhere within 100 miles, so I can't do a comparison. I had been
going to the beach and riding the flats about 3-4 times a year but that
source recently dried up.

I'm hoping to hook up with another guy in September and get a riding buddy
who, being about 30 years younger than me, should be able to push me a bit.
We'll see. I'm hopeful and looking forward to it. I -have-, after all, been
doing my homework. So he may toast me and drop me, but not for long, lol.

Best,

jj