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Cracked Seven frame

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Published
17 June 2005
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6 September 2005
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  1. Last week I discovered a crack in the frame of my Ti Seven Axiom. The
    crack is in the downtube, just above the BB weld. Seven has told me
    that the frame is unrepairable and that since I am not the original
    owner, that there is no warranty either. If that is their policy then
    that's that, I guess. But check out this explanation from them....

    "Our warranty is extended to the original owner only. We offer a
    lifetime warranty for those who make the investment with an authorized
    Seven dealer to purchase a Seven. You made no investment with an
    authorized dealer or with Seven Cycles and you are riding a frame that
    was not designed or built for you. We do not extend the frame warranty
    to second owners because we cannot guarantee the frame will be used in
    the same manner as it was intended."

    Is this a whitewash or what? Can't guarantee the frame was used in the
    manner intended??? It's a bike frame. I rode it. What do they think I
    did, hammered railroad spikes with it? And as far as the "investment"
    part of it, the person I bought it from only sold it so that he could
    buy a fully custom Seven. So they still sold two frames.

    I'm just venting....

  2. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Last week I discovered a crack in the frame of my Ti Seven


    Axiom. The

    Quoted message said:

    crack is in the downtube, just above the BB weld. Seven has


    told me

    Quoted message said:

    that the frame is unrepairable and that since I am not the


    original

    Quoted message said:

    owner, that there is no warranty either. If that is their


    policy then

    Quoted message said:

    that's that, I guess. But check out this explanation from


    them....

    Quoted message said:


    "Our warranty is extended to the original owner only. We offer


    a

    Quoted message said:

    lifetime warranty for those who make the investment with an


    authorized

    Quoted message said:

    Seven dealer to purchase a Seven. You made no investment with


    an

    Quoted message said:

    authorized dealer or with Seven Cycles and you are riding a


    frame that

    Quoted message said:

    was not designed or built for you. We do not extend the frame


    warranty

    Quoted message said:

    to second owners because we cannot guarantee the frame will be


    used in

    Quoted message said:

    the same manner as it was intended."

    Is this a whitewash or what? Can't guarantee the frame was used


    in the

    Quoted message said:

    manner intended??? It's a bike frame. I rode it. What do they


    think I

    Quoted message said:

    did, hammered railroad spikes with it? And as far as the


    "investment"

    Quoted message said:

    part of it, the person I bought it from only sold it so that he


    could

    Quoted message said:

    buy a fully custom Seven. So they still sold two frames.

    I'm just venting....

    I can understand limiting a warranty, but their explanation is
    tremendously hokey and codescending. I can't underestand why they
    would be so quick to create ill-will. I never like their
    marketing. It was always too elitist for my tastes, and always
    mixed with that "bicycle building is magic" B.S. -- Jay Beattie.

  3. Jay Beattie said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Last week I discovered a crack in the frame of my Ti Seven Axiom. The
    crack is in the downtube, just above the BB weld. Seven has told me
    that the frame is unrepairable and that since I am not the original
    owner, that there is no warranty either. If that is their policy then
    that's that, I guess. But check out this explanation from them....

    "Our warranty is extended to the original owner only. We offer a
    lifetime warranty for those who make the investment with an
    authorized Seven dealer to purchase a Seven. You made no investment
    with an authorized dealer or with Seven Cycles and you are riding a
    frame that was not designed or built for you. We do not extend the
    frame warranty to second owners because we cannot guarantee the
    frame will be used in the same manner as it was intended."

    Is this a whitewash or what? Can't guarantee the frame was used in
    the manner intended??? It's a bike frame. I rode it. What do they
    think I did, hammered railroad spikes with it? And as far as the
    "investment" part of it, the person I bought it from only sold it so
    that he could buy a fully custom Seven. So they still sold two
    frames.

    I'm just venting....

    I can understand limiting a warranty, but their explanation is
    tremendously hokey and codescending. I can't underestand why they
    would be so quick to create ill-will. I never like their
    marketing. It was always too elitist for my tastes, and always
    mixed with that "bicycle building is magic" B.S. -- Jay Beattie.

    This whole elitist warranty issue is there so as to *keep* the elitism.
    This guarantees high prices and [censored] frames, a theme rampant among some
    frame makers, it seems. People who pony up will continue to love the
    frames, since they get a lifetime supply of them. People who don't/won't
    pony up will say they suck, but will secretly want one. You know it's true.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training

  4. Very few bike companies will extend the warranty to anyone other than
    the original owner. I said none previously but someone reminded me
    that Kestrel will do this if you send it back and let them inspect it
    first.

    If you don't like this policy, don't buy from these other companies.

  5. <[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) Seven has told me that the frame
    is unrepairable and that since I am not the original owner, that there is no
    warranty either. (clip)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Can you still get in touch with the original owner? Maybe you can get him
    to send it in under warranty. It seems ridiculous for the manufacturer to
    be released from an obligation through acts that don't involve them.

    Never buy that make of bike used--next time "lease" it.

  6. I would get a second opinion on the frame being unrepairable - Get an
    experienced Ti welder to look at it.

    nc

  7. I believe Airborne will warranty a frame for a second owner if it is sent in
    and inspected- cost if I remember is $150

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Very few bike companies will extend the warranty to anyone other than
    the original owner. I said none previously but someone reminded me
    that Kestrel will do this if you send it back and let them inspect it
    first.

    If you don't like this policy, don't buy from these other companies.

  8. Quoted message said:

    Last week I discovered a crack in the frame of my Ti Seven Axiom. The
    crack is in the downtube, just above the BB weld. Seven has told me
    that the frame is unrepairable and that since I am not the original
    owner, that there is no warranty either. If that is their policy then
    that's that, I guess. But check out this explanation from them....

    "Our warranty is extended to the original owner only. We offer a
    lifetime warranty for those who make the investment with an authorized
    Seven dealer to purchase a Seven. You made no investment with an
    authorized dealer or with Seven Cycles and you are riding a frame that
    was not designed or built for you. We do not extend the frame warranty
    to second owners because we cannot guarantee the frame will be used in
    the same manner as it was intended."

    Is this a whitewash or what? Can't guarantee the frame was used in the
    manner intended??? It's a bike frame. I rode it. What do they think I
    did, hammered railroad spikes with it? And as far as the "investment"
    part of it, the person I bought it from only sold it so that he could
    buy a fully custom Seven. So they still sold two frames.

    I'm just venting....

    Basterds! Miyata did the same thing to me. I bought a used 914 which
    cracked where the cable exits the toptube. The Miyata guy said to me
    on the phone that it was a common problem, and they know about it, and
    they have a replacement program which gives you a free replacement,
    but he wouldn't give me one because I bought it used. A$$holes.

    Better luck with your next frame.

    dkl

  9. Many companies and products have warrantees that are good only for the
    original owner. Much of this has to do with limiting the warrantee claims.
    They know that many of the products are sold thus voiding the warrantee.
    This lowers the claims rate and increase the profitability of the company.

    cel

    "(PeteCresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Per [email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    "Our warranty is extended to the original owner only. We offer a
    lifetime warranty for those who make the investment with an authorized
    Seven dealer to purchase a Seven. You made no investment with an
    authorized dealer or with Seven Cycles and you are riding a frame that
    was not designed or built for you. We do not extend the frame warranty
    to second owners because we cannot guarantee the frame will be used in
    the same manner as it was intended."

    Sounds like self-serving [censored] to me.

    I've got a Seven and until hearing that, held them in pretty high regard.

    Now my estimation has dropped several notches.
    --
    PeteCresswell

  10. james.r.negris said:

    Last week I discovered a crack in the frame of my Ti Seven Axiom. The
    crack is in the downtube, just above the BB weld. Seven has told me
    that the frame is unrepairable and that since I am not the original
    owner, that there is no warranty either. If that is their policy then
    that's that, I guess. But check out this explanation from them....

    Sure, their explanation is BS. I'm surprised they even bothered to
    generate it. You have no recourse with them -- as with most things, the
    manufacturer's warranty only applied to the original purchaser.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but
    _`\(,_ | what canst thou say? -- George Fox.
    (_)/ (_) |

  11. Dear james, & list:

    Years ago I bought a Schwinn Circuit frame and fork used at an
    Albuquerque bike shop. It was Schwinn's top-of-the-line frame from
    their mississippi factory, silver brazed, lugged, Columbus tubing.

    It was cheap 'cause one of the shifter bosses had come off - a cold
    braze, I guess. I was going to braze on a new one, then remembered
    Schwinn's lifetime warranty. I took the frame to a dealer and they
    contacted Chicago. By then the Mississippi factory had closed and
    there were no replacements available.

    It got complicated and I ended up talking to Marc Mueller, who was (and
    still is, I think) the GM at Waterford. He offered me a Waterford frame
    instead. I asked if it would be Columbus tubing and made in the USA,
    he said it would be a Japanese Waterford. I asked if they could just
    repair that frame. He said sure, and asked what color I wanted the
    repaint. Wow!! So I asked for this deep green metallic they listed
    ....

    A few weeks later I got the frame back, with a gorgeous paint job and,
    get this, a Paramount head badge.

    This is where a person could wax fulsome about old school values, etc.
    I build frames myself, now. I offer a 1 year warranty, but will work
    with customers who have a legitimate beef. But realistically, I have
    not had very many warranty calls. Two, maybe? I took are of it both
    times.

    later

    jn

    "Thursday"

  12. james.r.negris said:


    Quoted message said:

    Last week I discovered a crack in the frame of my Ti Seven Axiom. The
    crack is in the downtube, just above the BB weld. Seven has told me
    that the frame is unrepairable and that since I am not the original
    owner, that there is no warranty either. If that is their policy then
    that's that, I guess. But check out this explanation from them....

    I was rather dismayed to read this; although I'm not a Seven dealer I'd
    always had a pretty high opinion of their frames.

    David L. Johnson said:


    Sure, their explanation is BS. I'm surprised they even bothered to
    generate it. You have no recourse with them -- as with most things, the
    manufacturer's warranty only applied to the original purchaser.

    That's not necessarily the case. In Massachusetts, and possibly other
    states, there's a legal doctrine called a "warranty of merchantability"
    which basically states that a product should last for a reasonable time
    when used as intended.

    You might want to contact your state Attorney General's office on this.

    Most warranties are intended to cover defects in manufacture or
    workmanship. If a product is defective in manufacture or workmanship, a
    reputable company should stand behind it instead of hiding behind
    pettifogging fine print.

    I've known any number of frames being covered by warranties for non
    original purchasers by any number of reputable manufacturers.

    Sheldon "Merchantability" Brown
    +---------------------------------------------------------+
    | It is good to learn from your mistakes; |
    | It is better to learn from the mistakes of others. |
    +---------------------------------------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    http://harriscyclery.com
    Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

  13. Per [email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    "Our warranty is extended to the original owner only. We offer a
    lifetime warranty for those who make the investment with an authorized
    Seven dealer to purchase a Seven. You made no investment with an
    authorized dealer or with Seven Cycles and you are riding a frame that
    was not designed or built for you. We do not extend the frame warranty
    to second owners because we cannot guarantee the frame will be used in
    the same manner as it was intended."

    Sounds like self-serving [censored] to me.

    I've got a Seven and until hearing that, held them in pretty high regard.

    Now my estimation has dropped several notches.
    --
    PeteCresswell

  14. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Basterds! Miyata did the same thing to me. I bought a used 914 which
    cracked where the cable exits the toptube. The Miyata guy said to me
    on the phone that it was a common problem, and they know about it, and
    they have a replacement program which gives you a free replacement,
    but he wouldn't give me one because I bought it used. A$$holes.

    I don't understand your position. You chose to purchase a used bike that
    came with no warranty, but you are upset that the manufacturer, even though
    you never paid them any money, will not give you a replacement frame. What
    am I missing?

  15. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Last week I discovered a crack in the frame of my Ti Seven Axiom. The
    crack is in the downtube, just above the BB weld. Seven has told me
    that the frame is unrepairable and that since I am not the original
    owner, that there is no warranty either. If that is their policy then
    that's that, I guess. But check out this explanation from them....

    "Our warranty is extended to the original owner only. We offer a
    lifetime warranty for those who make the investment with an authorized
    Seven dealer to purchase a Seven. You made no investment with an
    authorized dealer or with Seven Cycles and you are riding a frame that
    was not designed or built for you. We do not extend the frame warranty
    to second owners because we cannot guarantee the frame will be used in
    the same manner as it was intended."

    Is this a whitewash or what? Can't guarantee the frame was used in the
    manner intended??? It's a bike frame. I rode it. What do they think I
    did, hammered railroad spikes with it? And as far as the "investment"
    part of it, the person I bought it from only sold it so that he could
    buy a fully custom Seven. So they still sold two frames.

    I'm just venting....

    I can completely understand them limiting the warranty to the original owner
    but their reply made me sick to my stomach. In my opinion the reply was
    condescending, and I will cross Seven off of the list of bikes that I am
    interested in.

  16. Quoted message said:

    I believe Airborne will warranty a frame for a second owner if it is sent in
    and inspected- cost if I remember is $150

    Only catch is you gotta do this before it breaks.

    Quoted message said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Very few bike companies will extend the warranty to anyone other than
    the original owner. I said none previously but someone reminded me
    that Kestrel will do this if you send it back and let them inspect it
    first.

    If you don't like this policy, don't buy from these other companies.

    Robin Hubert

  17. Quoted message said:

    "Our warranty is extended to the original owner only. We offer a
    lifetime warranty for those who make the investment with an authorized
    Seven dealer to purchase a Seven. You made no investment with an
    authorized dealer or with Seven Cycles and you are riding a frame that
    was not designed or built for you. We do not extend the frame warranty
    to second owners because we cannot guarantee the frame will be used in
    the same manner as it was intended."

    Quoted message said:

    Is this a whitewash or what? Can't guarantee the frame was used in the
    manner intended??? It's a bike frame. I rode it. What do they think I
    did, hammered railroad spikes with it? And as far as the "investment"
    part of it, the person I bought it from only sold it so that he could
    buy a fully custom Seven. So they still sold two frames.

    I'm not sure why Seven worded things the way they did; it's as if they're
    intentionally trying to put people off who didn't buy them new.

    The reality is that warranty coverage is an expensive thing for a
    manufacturer to offer, and raises the price of the product. The original
    purchaser of a particular product, at the time of purchase, probably isn't
    thinking at that time about selling it to someone else, so offering a
    more-expensive warranty wouldn't significantly add to the perceived value.

    And then there's the other problem about extending warranties past the
    original purchaser. The seller won't always disclose the fact that the bike
    had been in a serious accident, and the buyer will sometimes try to make a
    warranty claim, saying they're the original owner, that it was never abused
    etc. Honest, we've seen this happen. They got burned in a remote (ebay
    sometimes) transaction, and expect someone else to pay for it. You can
    generally smell this sort of thing pretty quickly, and running the serial
    number through the manufacturer verifies they aren't the original buyers.

    And, finally, a "lifetime" warranty doesn't mean a product is going to last
    forever. A useful design life takes many things into account, including the
    inevitable compromise between durability and performance. A warranty limited
    to the original purchaser is a way of offering reasonable protection to the
    original purchaser, without the need to over-engineer something so
    drastically that it would be heavier than need be for the vast majority of
    users. To those few (original owners) who do, in fact, put zillions of mile
    on their bikes, push them beyond their limits and ultimately cause them to
    fail (without abusing them, of course)... they will receive the benefit of
    getting a new or repaired frame for as long as they live, even though it may
    be unreasonable to expect a given frame to last forever under hard use.
    There are very few such people, so manufacturers don't worry much about the
    cost of taking care of them, plus they likely become their best
    advertisement (since apparently they like it so much they won't part with it
    and buy something new).

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  18. Sheldon Brown said:
    james.r.negris said:


    Quoted message said:

    Last week I discovered a crack in the frame of my Ti Seven Axiom.
    The crack is in the downtube, just above the BB weld. Seven has
    told me that the frame is unrepairable and that since I am not the
    original owner, that there is no warranty either. If that is their
    policy then that's that, I guess. But check out this explanation
    from them....

    I was rather dismayed to read this; although I'm not a Seven dealer
    I'd always had a pretty high opinion of their frames.

    David L. Johnson said:


    Sure, their explanation is BS. I'm surprised they even bothered to
    generate it. You have no recourse with them -- as with most things,
    the manufacturer's warranty only applied to the original purchaser.

    That's not necessarily the case. In Massachusetts, and possibly other
    states, there's a legal doctrine called a "warranty of
    merchantability" which basically states that a product should last
    for a reasonable time when used as intended.

    You might want to contact your state Attorney General's office on
    this.
    Most warranties are intended to cover defects in manufacture or
    workmanship. If a product is defective in manufacture or
    workmanship, a reputable company should stand behind it instead of
    hiding behind pettifogging fine print.

    I've known any number of frames being covered by warranties for non
    original purchasers by any number of reputable manufacturers.

    Sheldon "Merchantability" Brown

    Or, "Merchantaccountability". Great post, Sheldon.

    Bill "unnecessary props, perhaps, but props nonetheless" S.

  19. Sheldon Brown said:
    james.r.negris said:


    Quoted message said:

    Last week I discovered a crack in the frame of my Ti Seven Axiom.

    Bunch o'stuff snipped

    Quoted message said:


    That's not necessarily the case. In Massachusetts, and possibly other
    states, there's a legal doctrine called a "warranty of merchantability"
    which basically states that a product should last for a reasonable time
    when used as intended.

    You might want to contact your state Attorney General's office on this.

    Most warranties are intended to cover defects in manufacture or
    workmanship. If a product is defective in manufacture or workmanship, a
    reputable company should stand behind it instead of hiding behind
    pettifogging fine print.

    I've known any number of frames being covered by warranties for non
    original purchasers by any number of reputable manufacturers.

    Sheldon "Merchantability" Brown

    Under this theory the claim would be against the seller of the used
    frame, not Seven.

    Phil Brown
    Not related to-but would like to be thought of as a friend by-Sheldon
    Brown

  20. That is why I am hooked on Cannondales. I get free ones, at least some
    of the time. The last time around, I tried to get a replacement for a
    broken frame that was 18 years old. I was the original owner but lost
    my receipt. The rep gave me a ration of [censored] about not having a receipt
    and was, frankly, rude (totally without provocation). The rep told me
    straight up that he does honor some warranty claims without receipts,
    but not this one. He also thought the bike broke just because it was
    old and tired and not because of any defect in workmanship. I could
    accept that, but I could not accept being treated like a jerk. I have
    been brand-loyal for 20 years -- since the first production frames.
    Since the rep was in grade school. That is not how you treat an old
    customer and certainly not how I treat my clients.-- Jay Beattie.

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