Courier Mail March 5

On Mar 6, 9:38 am, osc <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Should be no surprise but here is a letter to the editor in yesterdays
Courier Mail:

"The story 'Cyclist thanks her lucky stars' (C-M March 3-4) reports yet
another cyclist knocked over by a car. It reminds me of swimmers in very
dangerous waters expressing surprise at a shark attack. Unless roads
have clearly marked lanes they will continue to be extremely dangerous
for cyclists. That is simply a fact and attempts to blame motorists for
accidents involving cyclists are unjustified."

My reply which I would have loved to have been longer, but I'm hoping
it is printed!

So, Mr Timmermans (C-M March 5) believes that cyclists should not be on
our roads and are therefore at fault when hit by cars. Does he also
consider that the women attacked on Brisbane bike paths were asking for
it by being on the path alone, when in fact they should be able to
exercise safely in our society? Get real sir! Cyclists have a right to
use the road as long as they abide by the road rules which the majority
do. Accidents happen, but to imply that motorists are never to blame in
accidents with cyclists shows complete ignorance. Try riding a bike,
legally, on our roads and you'll understand that much of the danger is
caused by impatience, lack of driving skill and a complete disregard
for the rights of others. And that goes for car v car accidents as
well!

My reply which I would have loved to have been longer, but I'm hoping
it is printed! No wonder it is dangerous out there when people continue
to have these attitudes!

Stewart

--
osc

Looks good to me - good luck!

Heck, coming down Annerley Road at 8.30 today, the number of idiot
drivers who try to share my new bike lane! Crikey!

Donga

Donga said:

On Mar 6, 9:38 am, osc <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Should be no surprise but here is a letter to the editor in yesterdays
Courier Mail:

Quoted message said:

"The story 'Cyclist thanks her lucky stars' (C-M March 3-4) reports yet
another cyclist knocked over by a car. It reminds me of swimmers in very
dangerous waters expressing surprise at a shark attack. Unless roads
have clearly marked lanes they will continue to be extremely dangerous
for cyclists. That is simply a fact and attempts to blame motorists for
accidents involving cyclists are unjustified."

It is a fact, riding on the roads is dangerous. Riding on paths is
dangerous, driving cars is dangerous too. Putting bike lanes on
roads, however, may not be 'the' cure. The danger of riding on the
road is vastly overstated.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My reply which I would have loved to have been longer, but I'm hoping
it is printed!

Quoted message said:

So, Mr Timmermans (C-M March 5) believes that cyclists should not be on
our roads and are therefore at fault when hit by cars. Does he also
consider that the women attacked on Brisbane bike paths were asking for
it by being on the path alone, when in fact they should be able to
exercise safely in our society? Get real sir! Cyclists have a right to
use the road as long as they abide by the road rules which the majority
do. Accidents happen, but to imply that motorists are never to blame in
accidents with cyclists shows complete ignorance. Try riding a bike,
legally, on our roads and you'll understand that much of the danger is
caused by impatience, lack of driving skill and a complete disregard
for the rights of others. And that goes for car v car accidents as
well!

You mix what we should be able to do, with what risks we knowingly
take. The rapist argument is the classic one. A woman should be able
to walk anywhere, but if she does, she has to accept some
responsibiluty for the risk she takes, just as we, as cyclists, have
to accept responsibility for the risks we take. This does *not*
reduce the culpability of the people doing the wrong (the rapist, the
errant or homicidal car driver etc), but it is important, all the
same.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My reply which I would have loved to have been longer, but I'm hoping
it is printed! No wonder it is dangerous out there when people continue
to have these attitudes!

It's not that dangerous. Really. Ride smart, and you dramatically
reduce the risks of collision.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Stewart

Quoted message said:

--
osc

Looks good to me - good luck!

Heck, coming down Annerley Road at 8.30 today, the number of idiot
drivers who try to share my new bike lane! Crikey!

There's a very good case for bike lanes *not* being as safe as riding
normally on the road, like every other class of vehicle. If you're not
where drivers are looking, they won't see you. If they don't see you,
they run into you. Drivers don't look in bike lanes, and no amount of
politicing, education etc will change that. Ride with them, and be
seen, and be safer.

Bleve said:

snip...good topic and good comments....

There's a very good case for bike lanes *not* being as safe as riding
normally on the road, like every other class of vehicle. If you're not
where drivers are looking, they won't see you. If they don't see you,
they run into you. Drivers don't look in bike lanes, and no amount of
politicing, education etc will change that. Ride with them, and be
seen, and be safer.

concur...

Bleve said:

There's a very good case for bike lanes *not* being as safe as riding
normally on the road, like every other class of vehicle. If you're not
where drivers are looking, they won't see you. If they don't see you,
they run into you. Drivers don't look in bike lanes, and no amount of
politicing, education etc will change that. Ride with them, and be
seen, and be safer.

I could have done with you over at BV forums a couple of weeks ago. Fruitlessly tried to explain to a rider who only rides Beach Road in off peak hours that riding as a part of normal traffic is not certain death.

On Mar 6, 1:38 pm, EuanB <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bleve said:

There's a very good case for bike lanes *not* being as safe as riding
normally on the road, like every other class of vehicle. If you're not
where drivers are looking, they won't see you. If they don't see you,
they run into you. Drivers don't look in bike lanes, and no amount of
politicing, education etc will change that. Ride with them, and be
seen, and be safer.

I could have done with you over at BV forums a couple of weeks ago.
Fruitlessly tried to explain to a rider who only rides Beach Road in
off peak hours that riding as a part of normal traffic is not certain
death.

I'm still alive, so are you 🙂

How's your leg, do we get to call you limpy?

In article <[email hidden]>,

EuanB said:

Fruitlessly tried to explain to a rider who only rides Beach Road in
off peak hours that riding as a part of normal traffic is not certain
death.

Mind you, the way some (a minority, thankfully) ride Beach Road, they
may have a point. I'm amazed at the number who move to the left and out
of sight between parked cars.

--
Shane Stanley

Bleve said:

On Mar 6, 1:38 pm, EuanB <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bleve said:

There's a very good case for bike lanes *not* being as safe as riding
normally on the road, like every other class of vehicle. If you're not
where drivers are looking, they won't see you. If they don't see you,
they run into you. Drivers don't look in bike lanes, and no amount of
politicing, education etc will change that. Ride with them, and be
seen, and be safer.

I could have done with you over at BV forums a couple of weeks ago.
Fruitlessly tried to explain to a rider who only rides Beach Road in
off peak hours that riding as a part of normal traffic is not certain
death.

I'm still alive, so are you 🙂

How's your leg, do we get to call you limpy?

Definitely on the mend, thanks for asking. Still hurts if I do something daft like run or walk for a few hours (three's about my limit at the moment) but getting better. Bike fitness sloooooooowly coming back, haven't quite reached the stage of daily commuting yet but getting there.

Figure I need to climb hills to speed up recovery, none on my commute so I'm going to have to do some weekend riding.

Shane Stanley said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

EuanB said:

Fruitlessly tried to explain to a rider who only rides Beach Road in
off peak hours that riding as a part of normal traffic is not certain
death.

Mind you, the way some (a minority, thankfully) ride Beach Road, they
may have a point. I'm amazed at the number who move to the left and out
of sight between parked cars.

That's pretty much the sort of riding he was advocating. Couldn't get his head around that if you ride where people can see you, i.e. on narrow lanes they actually have to /move/ to get around you, then you're less likely to get hit.

Guess it's something you've got to experience to understand.

Bleve said:

There's a very good case for bike lanes *not* being as safe as riding
normally on the road, like every other class of vehicle. If you're not
where drivers are looking, they won't see you. If they don't see you,
they run into you. Drivers don't look in bike lanes, and no amount of
politicing, education etc will change that. Ride with them, and be
seen, and be safer.

As a driver, I always see cyclists, even if they're in the bike lane on
St Kilda Rd in Melbourne which is the only road I usually use that has a
bike lane.

I think the drivers who wouldn't notice a cyclist in a bike lane are the
same ones that wouldn't notice a 120kg+ cyclist wearing an effing bright
orange work jacket then crash into the side of him, instead of giving
way. (happened to a cyclist friend of mine)

I haven't ridden since i was 16, back in 1992. I've recently pulled my
bike out of the back of the shed in an attempt to get a bit fitter, and
I only ride around Albert Park lake, on the road at lunch time.

After hearing of several work colleagues getting hit by cars while
commuting, even when they're in bike lanes, I am very reluctant to try
riding on any road.

--
Ben - Wipe off 25

"My name is Korg from planet dyslexia, your arses are fruity, take me
to your dealer, or you will all be laminated, ." RV, melb.general

PHATRS said:

Bleve wrote:

[chomp]

Quoted message said:

I haven't ridden since i was 16, back in 1992. I've recently pulled my
bike out of the back of the shed in an attempt to get a bit fitter, and
I only ride around Albert Park lake, on the road at lunch time.

After hearing of several work colleagues getting hit by cars while
commuting, even when they're in bike lanes, I am very reluctant to try
riding on any road.

This is your choice, and your loss.

Bleve said:

PHATRS said:

Bleve wrote:

[chomp]

Quoted message said:

I haven't ridden since i was 16, back in 1992. I've recently pulled my
bike out of the back of the shed in an attempt to get a bit fitter, and
I only ride around Albert Park lake, on the road at lunch time.

After hearing of several work colleagues getting hit by cars while
commuting, even when they're in bike lanes, I am very reluctant to try
riding on any road.

This is your choice, and your loss.

I'm curious to know why you think that is my loss.

--
Ben - Wipe off 25

"My name is Korg from planet dyslexia, your arses are fruity, take me
to your dealer, or you will all be laminated, ." RV, melb.general

PHATRS said:

After hearing of several work colleagues getting hit by cars while
commuting, even when they're in bike lanes, I am very reluctant to try
riding on any road.

I've also heard of pedestrians getting hit by cars, even at pedestrian
crossings. That's why I never cross the road. However my long walk does
get very monotonous after a while - walk, turn left, walk, turn left ...

daveB

quote='PHATRS'Bleve said:

PHATRS said:

Bleve wrote:

[chomp]

Quoted message said:

I haven't ridden since i was 16, back in 1992. I've recently pulled my
bike out of the back of the shed in an attempt to get a bit fitter, and
I only ride around Albert Park lake, on the road at lunch time.

After hearing of several work colleagues getting hit by cars while
commuting, even when they're in bike lanes, I am very reluctant to try
riding on any road.

This is your choice, and your loss.

I'm curious to know why you think that is my loss.[/QUOTE]
There have been several studies which show that making cycling a part of everyday life, in other words using a bicycle as a means of transport as well as recreation, reduces the chance of heart disease by 40% and that's just one of the benefits.

By riding as little as half an hour a day you'll probably increase your active life, how old you can get before you need cared for, by 15 years.

In the UK where a cyclist is ten times more likely to die on the road than a motorist the British Medical Journal state that the benefits of regular cycling outweigh the risks by 20:1. In Australia cycling is slightly more dangerous than driving, but by no means 10 times as dangerous.

The risk of dying from a road accident is in fact quite small when compared to the risk of dying of a disease that can be linked to an inactive lifestyle.

So yes, by choosing not to equip yourself with the skills and knowledge necessary to make cycling an integral part of your life, you're losing. If you're cycling round Albert Park, fair enough, but you have to find extra time in the day for that. I get my exercise riding to work where I would otherwise be standing in a train (I do miss the reading I got done on the train) or sitting behind the wheel of a car. Cycling is a much more efficient use of that particular part of the day.

Last but by no means least, cycling for transport is a very liberating and fun experience.

DaveB said:

PHATRS said:

After hearing of several work colleagues getting hit by cars while
commuting, even when they're in bike lanes, I am very reluctant to try
riding on any road.

I've also heard of pedestrians getting hit by cars, even at pedestrian
crossings. That's why I never cross the road. However my long walk does
get very monotonous after a while - walk, turn left, walk, turn left ...

daveB

I find that I'm commuting less and less on the bike. It's not just
about the risks. It's
about where I want to spend my time. Do I want to be riding down a
country road or a rail
trail? Or do I want to be spending time with your Australian suburban
car driver?

Let's face it. Australian car drivers have no redeeming features at
all. If a great crack in the earth
opened up and swallowed them, I wouldn't miss them at all. These are
some of the most
aggressive, rude and just plain evil people you will ever meet.

quote='AndrewJ'On Mar 8 said:

PHATRS said:

After hearing of several work colleagues getting hit by cars while
commuting, even when they're in bike lanes, I am very reluctant to try
riding on any road.

I've also heard of pedestrians getting hit by cars, even at pedestrian
crossings. That's why I never cross the road. However my long walk does
get very monotonous after a while - walk, turn left, walk, turn left ...

daveB

I find that I'm commuting less and less on the bike. It's not just
about the risks. It's
about where I want to spend my time. Do I want to be riding down a
country road or a rail
trail? Or do I want to be spending time with your Australian suburban
car driver?[/quote]

Why not both? I have to get to work regardless and frankly cycling's the option that makes the most sense.

AndrewJ said:

Let's face it. Australian car drivers have no redeeming features at
all. If a great crack in the earth
opened up and swallowed them, I wouldn't miss them at all. These are
some of the most
aggressive, rude and just plain evil people you will ever meet.

I'm finding that's less and less true in the SE suburbs/CBD.

PHATRS said:

After hearing of several work colleagues getting hit by cars while
commuting, even when they're in bike lanes, I am very reluctant to try
riding on any road.

I've heard of several coleegues being hit by cars while driving cars
while commuting, even when they're in car lanes, I am very reluctant
to try driving on any road.

quote='PiledHigher'On Mar 8 said:

After hearing of several work colleagues getting hit by cars while
commuting, even when they're in bike lanes, I am very reluctant to try
riding on any road.

I've heard of several coleegues being hit by cars while driving cars
while commuting, even when they're in car lanes, I am very reluctant
to try driving on any road.[/QUOTE]

I've never held a drivers licence or owned a car. Ditto I feel much safer either walking, using PT or out on the pedally. Although recently PT has actually been a *slower* method of transport. Ah, Melbourne ....

On Mar 8, 9:53 am, EuanB <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

AndrewJ said:

DaveB said:

PHATRS wrote:
> After hearing of several work colleagues getting hit by cars while
> commuting, even when they're in bike lanes, I am very reluctant to

try

Quoted message said:

> riding on any road.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've also heard of pedestrians getting hit by cars, even at

pedestrian

Quoted message said:

crossings. That's why I never cross the road. However my long walk

does

Quoted message said:

get very monotonous after a while - walk, turn left, walk, turn left

...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

daveB

Quoted message said:

I find that I'm commuting less and less on the bike. It's not just
about the risks. It's
about where I want to spend my time. Do I want to be riding down a
country road or a rail
trail? Or do I want to be spending time with your Australian suburban
car driver?

Why not both? I have to get to work regardless and frankly cycling's
the option that makes the most sense.

AndrewJ said:

Let's face it. Australian car drivers have no redeeming features at
all. If a great crack in the earth
opened up and swallowed them, I wouldn't miss them at all. These are
some of the most
aggressive, rude and just plain evil people you will ever meet.

I'm finding that's less and less true in the SE suburbs/CBD.

--
EuanB

Ok.
1. Take mood pill.
2. Smile.
3. Commute.

Got it.

cfsmtb said:

I've never held a drivers licence or owned a car. Ditto I feel much safer either walking, using PT or out on the pedally. Although recently PT has actually been a *slower* method of transport. Ah, Melbourne ....

Did they fix the brakes on your trains yet or what?

On Topic Bit: Riding bikes on the road is the bestest thing in the whole world!

hippy
- delerious again