Correct decision by ToC organisers?

Eldrack said:

What do you think? Should they have neutralised the finishing circuit post race? Obviously it's a pretty contentious issue given that the UCI rules state only crashes within the last 3k are affect, and the jersey could have changed hands because of the crash.

I reckon it's the right decision. Finishing circuits like that are horrendously dangerous so I think neutralising them once a crash has happened is probably a good idea.

Why not announce the EPO winner today? Hand out all the prizes, then have a real race?

It's a tough decision, I think either way it isn't a choice you really want. But in the end I believe I would of made the same choice.

I disagree. I think it sucks. That was not racing. Racing would have been the jersey going to somone else...don't care who, and seeing Discovery have to really pull it together. I'd love to hear what the riders are saying about it. T Mobile and some others busting mucho a$$ at the front to string it out and they get nothing? BS.

riverfever said:

I disagree. I think it sucks. That was not racing. Racing would have been the jersey going to somone else...don't care who, and seeing Discovery have to really pull it together. I'd love to hear what the riders are saying about it. T Mobile and some others busting mucho a$$ at the front to string it out and they get nothing? BS.

The riders are doing a lot less [censored] than most of these forum members.

It wasn't the crash exactly, it was the fact that no one could get AROUND the crash. They were all piled up from barrier to barrier. A crash that should have caused a 10-second split wound up causing a 90-second split. If Levi lost the jersey by 10 seconds that would have been a bad break, loosing by 90 seconds because he couldn't find a path through the carnage would have been a bad decision by the commissaries.

DiabloScott said:

The riders are doing a lot less [censored] than most of these forum members.

It wasn't the crash exactly, it was the fact that no one could get AROUND the crash. They were all piled up from barrier to barrier. A crash that should have caused a 10-second split wound up causing a 90-second split. If Levi lost the jersey by 10 seconds that would have been a bad break, loosing by 90 seconds because he couldn't find a path through the carnage would have been a bad decision by the commissaries.

🙂 . Finally some logic, rather than biased whinging. Well done Diablo, I think you've made a fair assessment. What is odd though, is that it appears some riders caught in the carnage didn't receive the same finishing time.

DiabloScott said:

The riders are doing a lot less [censored] than most of these forum members.

It wasn't the crash exactly, it was the fact that no one could get AROUND the crash. They were all piled up from barrier to barrier. A crash that should have caused a 10-second split wound up causing a 90-second split. If Levi lost the jersey by 10 seconds that would have been a bad break, loosing by 90 seconds because he couldn't find a path through the carnage would have been a bad decision by the commissaries.

In addition, weren't they out of spare wheels?

Walrus said:

🙂 . Finally some logic, rather than biased whinging. Well done Diablo, I think you've made a fair assessment. What is odd though, is that it appears some riders caught in the carnage didn't receive the same finishing time.

What is biased whinging?

Why on Earth is it that someone posts a question asking whether people thought the right decision was made, and when people post their opinion, others get emotional? I state an opinion and I'm [censored]? I know the internet can be overwhelming but gimme a break people. This forum would be kick a$$ if we all had the same opinions wouldn't it? 🙄

DiabloScott said:

The riders are doing a lot less [censored] than most of these forum members.

It wasn't the crash exactly, it was the fact that no one could get AROUND the crash. They were all piled up from barrier to barrier. A crash that should have caused a 10-second split wound up causing a 90-second split. If Levi lost the jersey by 10 seconds that would have been a bad break, loosing by 90 seconds because he couldn't find a path through the carnage would have been a bad decision by the commissaries.

Written like a true doper apologist. That is NOT the rule. That is a commercial excuse for cheating. That's why the Amgen EPO is another TDF joke.

I reckon it was wrong. Accidents are part of the game.
They already have a nuetral time zone for the last 3km in the event of a crash, to extend the zone just because the bunch (or part thereof) got caught out is wrong.

In Levi's case it's bad luck he got caught in it, but he made a bad decision to be back that far in the pack especially given the conditions of the course (ie:narrow technical finish) he should have placed himself better.
So 10secs or 90secs eitherway, Levi by the rules should have lost out due to his decision or lack of awareness and finding himself to far back.

The commissares also made a bad decision by ignoring the rules and going against them.

Other riders/teams worked their asses off to be up near the front for a shot at a win and also no doubt to avoid any potential drama, they are the ones who lost out.

Trev_S said:

I reckon it was wrong. Accidents are part of the game.
They already have a nuetral time zone for the last 3km in the event of a crash, to extend the zone just because the bunch (or part thereof) got caught out is wrong.

In Levi's case it's bad luck he got caught in it, but he made a bad decision to be back that far in the pack especially given the conditions of the course (ie:narrow technical finish) he should have placed himself better.
So 10secs or 90secs eitherway, Levi by the rules should have lost out due to his decision or lack of awareness and finding himself to far back.

The commissares also made a bad decision by ignoring the rules and going against them.

Other riders/teams worked their asses off to be up near the front for a shot at a win and also no doubt to avoid any potential drama, they are the ones who lost out.

Agreed---but just as publishers remote control media editors----underewriters and Team Sponsors control USA Cycling, USADA, doping cover-ups and USCF official rulings.

Money talks and theory goes out the window from 52 stories up.

Levi was helped by his employer and a rejuvenator firm named Amgen-EPO.

DiabloScott said:

The riders are doing a lot less [censored] than most of these forum members.

It wasn't the crash exactly, it was the fact that no one could get AROUND the crash. They were all piled up from barrier to barrier. A crash that should have caused a 10-second split wound up causing a 90-second split. If Levi lost the jersey by 10 seconds that would have been a bad break, loosing by 90 seconds because he couldn't find a path through the carnage would have been a bad decision by the commissaries.

I dont think this is right. The crash was relatively contained on the left. I just think a big gap opened as riders stopped, and perhaps Disco were caught on the left which was blocked. I don't think that many riders needed wheels from what I saw, the only problem was there were cars backed up on a tight circuit and the cars had to clear also, in time for the next lap.

The fix is in.

Similar things happened in the Tour du Pont years ago.

I saw that crash for the first time last night on TV and you know, I think the call could have gone either way. I would have ruled to let results stand only because I wouldn't want the perception of a hometown call, but that crash was near the front and it took more than half the field out. Things would be more interesting had they let the results stand.

Now, it's been pointed out that T-Mobile was at the front pulling, but it wasn't like Dico et al weren't at the back doing the same thing. And they had casualties. So the argument that somehow T-mobile burned it's matches while Disco was tucked safely in the group is mute... I think.

Anyone else see it that way?

I'd like to see an upset. I can't put my finger on it, but LL... I don't like him. He's a dork. I think that's it. I'd love to see BJM pull the upset.

Also, I have to point out a great program from Seattle, Wash., that's put two rider into this race and many pros into the N. American peloton: Broadmark Capital. Tom Perterson (slipstream) and Omer Kem (some insurance company) are both former BM riders. Peterson won the best young rider jersey last year and now is leading the mountains and Kem was in a lengthy break yesterday.

helmutRoole2 said:

I saw that crash for the first time last night on TV and you know, I think the call could have gone either way. I would have ruled to let results stand only because I wouldn't want the perception of a hometown call, but that crash was near the front and it took more than half the field out. Things would be more interesting had they let the results stand.

Now, it's been pointed out that T-Mobile was at the front pulling, but it wasn't like Dico et al weren't at the back doing the same thing. And they had casualties. So the argument that somehow T-mobile burned it's matches while Disco was tucked safely in the group is mute... I think.

Anyone else see it that way?

I'd like to see an upset. I can't put my finger on it, but LL... I don't like him. He's a dork. I think that's it. I'd love to see BJM pull the upset.

I think they should have let the race stand. If they thought the final circuit was going to upset the overall composition of the race, they should have neutralized times upon entering the circuit. Or maybe the organizers think that racing involves strategy, good bike handling, and some luck and that those circuits add excitement and drama to the overall race. Since when has cycling been "fair"? How many times have you had a flat, broken spoke, broken chain, caught behind a wreck, etc... and been dropped? It happens, and it's as much a part of the sport as good legs. The rules were known before hand and if you were really worried about the circuit and getting caught behind a wreck, you should've been at the front, plain and simple.

If we want to watch cycling that some consider "fair" then lets just watch a GT where every stage is an ITT. For guys who need training wheels like Zabriskie, Rasmussen, and Tyler we could just stop the clock every time they wreck then restart once they get a bike change.

I agree. Never liked LL. Don't know why I think that but it probably has to do with how he looks on a bike. He just doesn't look like a pro, looks very awkward. Even so, I bet he wins the overall.

helmutRoole2 said:

Also, I have to point out a great program from Seattle, Wash., that's put two rider into this race and many pros into the N. American peloton: Broadmark Capital. Tom Perterson (slipstream) and Omer Kem (some insurance company) are both former BM riders. Peterson won the best young rider jersey last year and now is leading the mountains and Kem was in a lengthy break yesterday.

We have a 3rd (not a graduate of Broadmark) new local guy there too on the BMC team. Ian McKissick hasn't done anything in this race to stand out, but he was a cat 5 just two years ago.... pretty amazing.

I was very surprised when they decided to neutralize the race. Accidents are all part of it - though this one was pretty bizarre. It looked like it occured if not right on the front, maybe only 2 or 3 riders back? (so I can't fault Levi or Disco for bad placement in the pack, but bad luck is all part of it too...). If they did run out of wheels then I would understand the decision much better, but without an explanation of why the officials made their decision it does seem like favoritism for the home town boy.

Eden said:

We have a 3rd (not a graduate of Broadmark) new local guy there too on the BMC team. Ian McKissick hasn't done anything in this race to stand out, but he was a cat 5 just two years ago.... pretty amazing.

I was very surprised when they decided to neutralize the race. Accidents are all part of it - though this one was pretty bizarre. It looked like it occured if not right on the front, maybe only 2 or 3 riders back? (so I can't fault Levi or Disco for bad placement in the pack, but bad luck is all part of it too...). If they did run out of wheels then I would understand the decision much better, but without an explanation of why the officials made their decision it does seem like favoritism for the home town boy.

McKissick... yes. A Recycled Cycles product. I have a soft spot in my heart for that program. I real club team with a full range of cyclists... fat, skinny, young, old, elite, Cat.5. Coaching, support, team rides, and, if you don't want to race, they'll find you something to do if you want. McKissick. Watching him at Hood, attacking Moninger with 400meters to the summit on the last day. Moninger's mouth was agape. But, he did reel him back for the stage win, just barely. Also, out of Broadmark, Morgan Schmidt. What, 20 years old. But really, you have to credit RADD racing for him. Another great NW program.

helmutRoole2 said:

Watching him at Hood, attacking Moninger with 400meters to the summit on the last day. Moninger's mouth was agape. But, he did reel him back for the stage win, just barely.

to go totally OT-
I would have loved to have watched it, but either we (the women's 3/4 field that is) wasn't in yet when the men finished or I was already in the shower.... I am prety sure it was the latter since as I recall the elite men went off first and we went off last since we were doing a nearly totally different course. Did catch that crazy crit though, sure am glad I did not have to do it.
What brought you there? racing, support, officialdom, avid fan?

riverfever said:

What is biased whinging?

Whinging is whining by someone British.

Eden said:

to go totally OT-
I would have loved to have watched it, but either we (the women's 3/4 field that is) wasn't in yet when the men finished or I was already in the shower.... I am prety sure it was the latter since as I recall the elite men went off first and we went off last since we were doing a nearly totally different course. Did catch that crazy crit though, sure am glad I did not have to do it.
What brought you there? racing, support, officialdom, avid fan?

Journalist. Yeah, that crit is pretty rough. The cork screw downhill is off camber. Really easy the slip out your front wheel. Very good race, other than that. I don't see a better course in town. Maybe four corners downtown? But then they wouldn't have the brewery in the mix.

How'd you make out?