Cooling Down... How long is normal?

"Andrew Morris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Hi Folks,

Did a 120 km training ride yesterday (Sunday) for Around The Bay, and
on return home, had a controlled warm down.... Track Pants, and Polar
Fleece top, stretches, and 10 minutes walking and light jogging...

Then I went inside, and had a shave and a warm shower, due to feeling
cold...

Ended up with the shower turned onto all hot, with no mixed cold -
still cold, starting to shiver...

Then I put myself in bed and 20 minutes later, still shivering...

Turned the electric blanket onto 2, and after being in bed for about
90 minutes total, I finally stopped shivering, and after another warm
shower felt like a human again...

I've done a bit of googling, and spoken to my trainer at the gym, and
haven't been able to glean anything useful as yet....

Ate quite a bit of potato the night before the ride, couple of Weetbix
before, 3 apples, 6 fruit sticks, packet of snakes, and two Milo bars
during the ride, drank 2 bidons of water, and 2 of Powerade mixed
from powder...

Based on that, I don't believe I was undernourished, had some carb,
but not heaps, and kept the fluids up throughout the exercise...

It sounds like mild hypothermia.

I very roughly estimate your caloric intake during the ride at somewhere
around 1,500. If, for the sake of the argument, 120k took you 5 hours @350
cal per hour you'd be coming out somewhere around even, so even given the
necessarily large margin for error your energy and fluid levels were
probably OK. That pretty much leaves cold. Sunday topped out at 17, which
on the bike would have been cooler due to wind chill, so my guess is you
were dressed more lightly than was necessary and you suffered a mild core
temperature drop, hence the prolonged uncontrollable shivering which
eventually responded to external heating.

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<snip>

Quoted message said:

It sounds like mild hypothermia.

I was wondering if that's what it may have been, and was hoping that it
wasnt!

Quoted message said:

I very roughly estimate your caloric intake during the ride at somewhere
around 1,500. If, for the sake of the argument, 120k took you 5 hours

@350

Quoted message said:

cal per hour you'd be coming out somewhere around even, so even given the
necessarily large margin for error your energy and fluid levels were
probably OK. That pretty much leaves cold. Sunday topped out at 17,

which

Quoted message said:

on the bike would have been cooler due to wind chill, so my guess is you
were dressed more lightly than was necessary and you suffered a mild core
temperature drop, hence the prolonged uncontrollable shivering which
eventually responded to external heating.

According to my HRM, I burnt around 3200 cal, and I was suffering big time
into a wind warning headwind for 2 3/4 hours, over about 60 km... I guess
that too would be a contributing factor...

I only ever ride in knicks and a jersey... Must find my spray jacket, and
take it with me next weekend if it's looking like being cool again...

Thanks for your help... Back to the gym tomorrow, to try and get the knot
out of my left calf... I know what cause that... Oliver's Hill, and a loud
cracking noise... :-(

Cheers,

Andrew

"DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It sounds like mild hypothermia.

I very roughly estimate your caloric intake during the ride at somewhere
around 1,500. If, for the sake of the argument, 120k took you 5 hours

@350

Quoted message said:

cal per hour you'd be coming out somewhere around even, so even given the
necessarily large margin for error your energy and fluid levels were
probably OK. That pretty much leaves cold. Sunday topped out at 17,

which

Quoted message said:

on the bike would have been cooler due to wind chill, so my guess is you
were dressed more lightly than was necessary and you suffered a mild core
temperature drop, hence the prolonged uncontrollable shivering which
eventually responded to external heating.

Hmm.. I spot an advantage to my insulation.. ;-)

I was out for 4hrs with BR14 in knicks and
jersey and didn't feel cold at all. Even got
rained on a bit.
It could've been 'one of those things'.
Sometimes I get the shakes and feel weak
but that's usually hypoglycaemia (lack of blood
sugar after binging on sweet stuff and then the
associated sugar "crash" when extra insulin is
realeased to deal with all the sugar).

"6 fruit sticks, packet of snakes, and two Milo
bars" wouldn't make a dent in my sugar handling
but maybe you don't normally eat that much sweet
stuff? so your body worked overtime to remove it,
hence the shakes?

hippy "notadoctor"

"hippy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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[...]

Quoted message said:

"6 fruit sticks, packet of snakes, and two Milo
bars" wouldn't make a dent in my sugar handling
but maybe you don't normally eat that much sweet
stuff? so your body worked overtime to remove it,
hence the shakes?

That wouldn't explain the prolonged shivering. My guess is that mild
hypothermia is a better explanation than hypoglycaemia.

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<snip>

Quoted message said:

but did you eat anything toward the end , and immediately after.
supposedly (dont go by me. Im going on others' theories here) that's
when you best take up the protein...

yep, ate pretty well right up until I got home, and had a banana when I got
home...

"suzyj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Andrew Morris said:

Ended up with the shower turned onto all hot, with no
mixed cold - still cold, starting to shiver...

Quoted message said:

Then I put myself in bed and 20 minutes later, still shivering...

Quoted message said:

Turned the electric blanket onto 2, and after being in bed for
about 90 minutes total, I finally stopped shivering, and after
another warm shower felt like a human again...

Hey, all my showers end like that. It's the result of having a
hopelessly inadequate hot water service.

Sure you're not coming down with the flu or something? Sounds pretty
serious, like you really hurt yourself. My post ride cooldowns usually
involve a beer and falling asleep in the bath or on the sofa. No
temperature issues, just thorough knackeredness.

Hi Suzy,

don't believe it's a cold or flu coming on... I've been fine since I warmed
back up on Sunday.... Will take it easier this coming weekend, and see how
things go...

Cheers,

Andrew

"DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"hippy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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[...]

Quoted message said:

"6 fruit sticks, packet of snakes, and two Milo
bars" wouldn't make a dent in my sugar handling
but maybe you don't normally eat that much sweet
stuff? so your body worked overtime to remove it,
hence the shakes?

That wouldn't explain the prolonged shivering. My guess is that mild
hypothermia is a better explanation than hypoglycaemia.

Maybe a combination of both??

"Andrew Morris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

"DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"hippy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

"6 fruit sticks, packet of snakes, and two Milo
bars" wouldn't make a dent in my sugar handling
but maybe you don't normally eat that much sweet
stuff? so your body worked overtime to remove it,
hence the shakes?

That wouldn't explain the prolonged shivering. My guess is that mild
hypothermia is a better explanation than hypoglycaemia.

Maybe a combination of both??

Mild hypothermia is a sufficient explanation and is bad enough. Why would
you want it to be both?

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Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Andrew Morris said:

Hi Folks,

Did a 120 km training ride yesterday (Sunday) for Around The Bay, and on
return home, had a controlled warm down.... Track Pants, and Polar Fleece
top, stretches, and 10 minutes walking and light jogging...

Then I went inside, and had a shave and a warm shower, due to feeling
cold...

Ended up with the shower turned onto all hot, with no mixed cold - still
cold, starting to shiver...

Then I put myself in bed and 20 minutes later, still shivering...

Turned the electric blanket onto 2, and after being in bed for about 90
minutes total, I finally stopped shivering, and after another warm shower
felt like a human again...

I've done a bit of googling, and spoken to my trainer at the gym, and
haven't been able to glean anything useful as yet....

Ate quite a bit of potato the night before the ride, couple of Weetbix
before, 3 apples, 6 fruit sticks, packet of snakes, and two Milo bars during
the ride, drank 2 bidons of water, and 2 of Powerade mixed from powder...

Based on that, I don't believe I was undernourished, had some carb, but not
heaps, and kept the fluids up throughout the exercise...

Any ideas??

Cheers,

Andrew

My expert medical advice.... see a doctor.

I went through all the suffering of last years wet Around the Bay, including bad shivering any time I stopped (thank god there's not many traffic lights between Geelong and Melbourne). But once out of the wind and rain it stopped.

Get it sorted by a quack. Hopefully one who knows a bit about sports medicine.

"hippy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sometimes I get the shakes and feel weak
but that's usually hypoglycaemia (lack of blood
sugar after binging on sweet stuff and then the
associated sugar "crash" when extra insulin is
realeased to deal with all the sugar).

"6 fruit sticks, packet of snakes, and two Milo
bars" wouldn't make a dent in my sugar handling
but maybe you don't normally eat that much sweet
stuff? so your body worked overtime to remove it,
hence the shakes?

No claim to being a doctor or health guru either, but isn't this one a bit
of a myth?

The PE dept will tell you all about sugar crashes and hypoglycemia, however
my understanding of it is something like this.

1. Go for a ride with some energy reserves. Work hard and deplete these
reserves (low blood sugar)
2. Your body tells you about this with impending 'bonk'
3. Eat a heap of yummy sugary stuff. Blood sugar is rapidly boosted.
4. Sugar consumed goes straight into boosting your low blood sugar level,
especially while you continue riding
5. Insulin production and a sugar crash does not occur.

The whole hypoglycemia issue is for those desk jockeys snacking on king-size
Mars Bars who then find they nod off after the tea break. I posed this
question to a PE colleague once who admitted that during active exercise a
sugar crash really won't happen. Personally I've never experienced it while
riding.

Cheers
Peter

"Andrew Morris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Then I went inside, and had a shave and a warm shower, due to feeling
cold...

Ended up with the shower turned onto all hot, with no mixed cold - still
cold, starting to shiver...

Then I put myself in bed and 20 minutes later, still shivering...

Sunday was a fairly cool windy day I recall? I wasn't in Melbourne though.

This sounds a lot like mild hypothermia. Feeling cold to start with, then
your hot shower got you shivering. This is textbook stuff, a big no no for
hypothermia is to warm the surface like in a shower. Blood flows away from
the body core to the skin, lowering the core temp. So your skin was warm but
you were cold inside and started shivering to warm up.

Quoted message said:

Turned the electric blanket onto 2, and after being in bed for about 90
minutes total, I finally stopped shivering, and after another warm shower
felt like a human again...

Wrapping up in some insulating layer (clothes, sleeping bag, blanket) with a
warm heat source (electic blanket, hot water bottle, other person with skin
contact - now calm down) is what will bring the core temp back to normal.

Next time you do a long ride on a cool windy day put some more clothes on
before you do your warm down. And if you haven't worked up a real sweat
think about whether the warm down is really necessary. Wrap a blanket around
you to warm up rather than showering.

Cheers
Peter

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"hippy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Sometimes I get the shakes and feel weak
but that's usually hypoglycaemia (lack of blood
sugar after binging on sweet stuff and then the
associated sugar "crash" when extra insulin is
realeased to deal with all the sugar).

"6 fruit sticks, packet of snakes, and two Milo
bars" wouldn't make a dent in my sugar handling
but maybe you don't normally eat that much sweet
stuff? so your body worked overtime to remove it,
hence the shakes?

No claim to being a doctor or health guru either, but isn't this one a bit
of a myth?

The PE dept will tell you all about sugar crashes and hypoglycemia,

however

Quoted message said:

my understanding of it is something like this.

1. Go for a ride with some energy reserves. Work hard and deplete these
reserves (low blood sugar)
2. Your body tells you about this with impending 'bonk'
3. Eat a heap of yummy sugary stuff. Blood sugar is rapidly boosted.
4. Sugar consumed goes straight into boosting your low blood sugar level,
especially while you continue riding
5. Insulin production and a sugar crash does not occur.

The whole hypoglycemia issue is for those desk jockeys snacking on

king-size

Quoted message said:

Mars Bars who then find they nod off after the tea break. I posed this
question to a PE colleague once who admitted that during active exercise a
sugar crash really won't happen. Personally I've never experienced it

while

Quoted message said:

riding.

The sugar crash was before the ride. "those desk jockeys snacking
on king-size Mars Bars" would be accurate except it's Snickers..
Actually, the specific time I'm thinking of was Milo breakfast cereal
that never made the bowl - straight from the box baby! :-)
I also found out later that I had low white blood cell count which
tied in nicely with the 'not 100% feeling' I was having for a while.
My body was basically running on empty whilst it tried to fight a
virus but I just had to keep pushing it..
But I guess you are right. It is probably unlikely to be hypoglycemia
due to the OP being involved in exercise at the time.

hippy

Peter Signorini said:

"Andrew Morris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Then I went inside, and had a shave and a warm shower, due to feeling
cold...

Ended up with the shower turned onto all hot, with no mixed cold - still
cold, starting to shiver...

Then I put myself in bed and 20 minutes later, still shivering...

Sunday was a fairly cool windy day I recall? I wasn't in Melbourne though.

This sounds a lot like mild hypothermia. Feeling cold to start with, then
your hot shower got you shivering. This is textbook stuff, a big no no for
hypothermia is to warm the surface like in a shower. Blood flows away from
the body core to the skin, lowering the core temp. So your skin was warm but
you were cold inside and started shivering to warm up.

Quoted message said:

Turned the electric blanket onto 2, and after being in bed for about 90
minutes total, I finally stopped shivering, and after another warm shower
felt like a human again...

Wrapping up in some insulating layer (clothes, sleeping bag, blanket) with a
warm heat source (electic blanket, hot water bottle, other person with skin
contact - now calm down) is what will bring the core temp back to normal.

Next time you do a long ride on a cool windy day put some more clothes on
before you do your warm down. And if you haven't worked up a real sweat
think about whether the warm down is really necessary. Wrap a blanket around
you to warm up rather than showering.

Cheers
Peter

I agree with Peter.
You would have been better to drink lots of warm fluid rather than shower in it. Next time drink a nice pot of tea, or stand under the shower with your mouth open. 😉

In hindsight, it would have been good to have taken your temperature. That would tell you if it was hypothermia or something else.

And the best thing is that the recommended treatment for hypothermia is to get in to bed with someone else ;-)

hippy said:

The sugar crash was before the ride. "those desk jockeys snacking
on king-size Mars Bars" would be accurate except it's Snickers..

hippy

just heard an article that Mars confectionery are dropping their supersized mars and Snickers bars!!! I used to live on about 7 snickers and coke buddies a day (back when i was young and such things were of no consequence).
Instead they will replace them with a 'twinpack' containing the same amount of bar! All in the marketing you see. Just like how burger sales went up at Maccas after introducing their vegie style menus cos people could tell themselves that Maccas was in fact good for them after all! 😄

F-off-to-get-a-snickers-D

flyingdutch said:

hippy said:

The sugar crash was before the ride. "those desk jockeys snacking
on king-size Mars Bars" would be accurate except it's Snickers..

hippy

just heard an article that Mars confectionery are dropping their
supersized mars and Snickers bars!!! I used to live on about 7
snickers and coke buddies a day (back when i was young and such
things were of no consequence). Instead they will replace them with a
'twinpack' containing the same amount of bar! All in the marketing
you see. Just like how burger sales went up at Maccas after
introducing their vegie style menus cos people could tell themselves
that Maccas was in fact good for them after all! 😄

F-off-to-get-a-snickers-D

What about those Mars Marathon bars that have just come out (although I
believe they've been in the US for a while). Tried one last night and I
like it, especially compared to the likes of Power Bar (which I found so
bad I couldn't eat them). Got a heap of kj's in them, now if I could
just work out how to unwrap them while cycling (they are a bit too
chocolatey to leave unwrapped in the pocket in preparation).

DaveB (who may well put on weight during the Sunday BR's now)

All this talk of hypothermia in September... Remind me why I don't live in Melbourne again?

Regards,

Suzy (who's now thinking of buying some more warm cycling gear for her great ocean road ride in late Oct...)

suzyj said:

All this talk of hypothermia in September... Remind me why I don't live in Melbourne again?

Regards,

Suzy (who's now thinking of buying some more warm cycling gear for her great ocean road ride in late Oct...)

might be a good idea. October is the wettest month of the year here...

DaveB <[email hidden]> wrote in news:415A46F9.10605
@NOSPAMMOoptusnet.com.au:

Quoted message said:

What about those Mars Marathon bars that have just come out (although I
believe they've been in the US for a while).

Are they not called Snickers Marathon bars? Ironic really, as for decades
the Snickers bar used to be called Marathon in the UK before they renamed
it to fall into line with the rest of the chocolate eating world. It put an
end to the joke - "Did you hear about the guy who entered a marathon? He
got peanuts all over his [censored]." Perhaps those of us who haven't updated our
jokes in 10-15 years have a chance to retell it now 🙂

Graeme